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Posted: 12/1/2023 3:21:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 3:30:37 PM EST
[#1]
Like they give a shit about public comments.
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 3:36:10 PM EST
[#2]
Some GS-03 clerk in the basement of ATF headquarters is on the comments site going Click, Delete, Click, Delete, Click, Delete......ad infinitum ad nauseam.
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 3:40:09 PM EST
[#3]
Although it probably doesn't do any good to comment as far as stopping the proposed rule, remember that other politicians may read those comments as well.  If the comments are overwhelmingly in favor of the rule, it may inspire some libtard legislator to propose  yet another gun control law.
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 3:52:39 PM EST
[#4]
five minutes, I've wasted far more time on much more frivolous pursuits
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 4:02:00 PM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Like they give a shit about public comments.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/1/2023 4:03:19 PM EST
[#6]
I did my part. FATF ...
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 4:09:28 PM EST
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Like they give a shit about public comments.
View Quote


Not true! They only don’t give a shit about those comments that go against what they want
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 4:47:33 PM EST
[#8]
Put my 3 cents in….someone should probably call dibs at this point…

I don’t have a dog, not sure if that is good (won’t loose a good dog) or bad (they had to shoot something)

FATF
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 4:52:41 PM EST
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Like they give a shit about public comments.
View Quote

Ayup, like what happened to those pistol brace comments, proposal and the final ruling.

They don't care their just part of this corrupt government. Glad they got their dicks and cunts hammered hard by the courts

Eff the ATF
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 5:41:46 PM EST
[#10]
Because the pistol brace rule comments really swayed the decision to pursue their bullshit law.

FATF
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 6:15:48 PM EST
[#11]
Best I can tell public comments are there so you can find any flaws in what they want to do, and then they can fix them to their advantage.
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 11:53:47 PM EST
[#12]
This OP is seriously misstating the facts.

This proposed rulemaking was a statutory requirement of the BPSCA that was passed during COVID, and may I add, with remarkably bipartisan voting support. So, pester your senator or congress(wo)man if you're seriously pissed by that piece of legislation. This is not an autonomous move of the ATF at the behest of its director, who mind you is actually educated and qualified for the job this time.
Link Posted: 12/1/2023 11:56:13 PM EST
[#13]
Done
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 12:10:07 AM EST
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This OP is seriously misstating the facts.

This proposed rulemaking was a statutory requirement of the BPSCA that was passed during COVID, and may I add, with remarkably bipartisan voting support. So, pester your senator or congress(wo)man if you're seriously pissed by that piece of legislation. This is not an autonomous move of the ATF at the behest of its director, who mind you is actually educated and qualified for the job this time.
View Quote
ATF are thugs shutting down every FFL at Bidens will.

Quit defending them.
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 12:14:31 AM EST
[#15]
FUCK the aft, who gives a shit
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 12:21:05 AM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Like they give a shit about public comments.
View Quote


Exactly this. The corrupt trump trial judge ordered and received everyone on twitter who liked a trump post, hundreds of millions of data points.
You're adding yourself as a data point for no reason, like voting for the high school project bullshit frequently posted here.
It means nothing and does nothing except expose you.

There is no process anymore, fairness doesn't exist.
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 12:24:55 AM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This OP is seriously misstating the facts.

This proposed rulemaking was a statutory requirement of the BPSCA that was passed during COVID, and may I add, with remarkably bipartisan voting support. So, pester your senator or congress(wo)man if you're seriously pissed by that piece of legislation. This is not an autonomous move of the ATF at the behest of its director, who mind you is actually educated and qualified for the job this time.
View Quote


You have never watched any of his congressional testimony, have you?  Sorry, but your boss is an idiot
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 12:40:50 AM EST
[#18]
I read it back when it came out. I got the no private gun show sales vibe and the no selling all your stuff at once or you are a dealer feeling. Who knows but to me it just feels like an attempt to choke down the number of private sales. I just don't believe it is just for clarification to make it easier to go after unlicensed dealers.
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 1:11:31 AM EST
[#19]
Nvm
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 1:13:29 AM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Like they give a shit about public comments.
View Quote


Like I give a shit about their "rules"
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 1:15:58 AM EST
[#21]
I'll show them. I'll write them a strongly worded letter.
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 1:21:28 AM EST
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This OP is seriously misstating the facts.

This proposed rulemaking was a statutory requirement of the BPSCA that was passed during COVID, and may I add, with remarkably bipartisan voting support. So, pester your senator or congress(wo)man if you're seriously pissed by that piece of legislation. This is not an autonomous move of the ATF at the behest of its director, who mind you is actually educated and qualified for the job this time.
View Quote



You can almost hear the PIV card shwoop as he heads to the break room.

Link Posted: 12/2/2023 6:01:22 AM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This OP is seriously misstating the facts.

This proposed rulemaking was a statutory requirement of the BPSCA that was passed during COVID, and may I add, with remarkably bipartisan voting support. So, pester your senator or congress(wo)man if you're seriously pissed by that piece of legislation. This is not an autonomous move of the ATF at the behest of its director, who mind you is actually educated and qualified for the job this time.
View Quote

Educated by whom? Anti-gunners willing to Iine his pockets with gold?
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 1:03:38 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You can almost hear the PIV card shwoop as he heads to the break room.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This OP is seriously misstating the facts.

This proposed rulemaking was a statutory requirement of the BPSCA that was passed during COVID, and may I add, with remarkably bipartisan voting support. So, pester your senator or congress(wo)man if you're seriously pissed by that piece of legislation. This is not an autonomous move of the ATF at the behest of its director, who mind you is actually educated and qualified for the job this time.

You can almost hear the PIV card shwoop as he heads to the break room.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 1:11:06 PM EST
[#25]
Is cock suckers one word or two?
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 1:22:38 PM EST
[#26]
Did my part.

Also, did anyone read the comments?  I read about 25-30 after I noticed that it was a a bunch of identically worded/copy-pasted comments all written by women.  Maybe my tin foil is too tight but it’s weird, to me at least.
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 1:48:36 PM EST
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
...did anyone read the comments?  I read about 25-30 after I noticed that it was a a bunch of identically worded/copy-pasted comments all written by women.  Maybe my tin foil is too tight but it’s weird, to me at least.
View Quote


Pretty normal, actually. People always copy-paste from whatever pro- or anti- group they subscribe to. Form letters get submitted in droves.

I like coming at something like this from different angles: You never know what's going to motivate the reader, so instead of pasting something that fifty other people are saying, use something novel. I said it's targeting the retirees and low-income – just say something that might give a pause to someone skipping over the same reason over and over again.


"Comment:
I am against the proposed rule and it's attempt to broaden the definition of when a person is considered “engaged in the business” of selling firearms.

The proposal itself uses language stating someone is assumed guilty unless proven otherwise. That's a bad start. ("Rather than establishing a minimum threshold number of firearms purchased or sold, this rule proposes to clarify that, absent reliable evidence to the contrary, a person will be presumed to be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms...."

• I am concerned when words like "terrorism" are used in a proposed rule that can adversely affect American citizens innocently practicing Second Amendment pursuits and interests.

• The rights of the retired, or low-income citizens are challenged as they specifically are targeted to prove themselves innocent against the presumption of guilt due to some of the conditions of the proposal: ("(2) spends more money or its equivalent on purchases of firearms for the purpose of resale than the person's reported taxable gross inome during the applicable period of time").
An elderly or retired person might be supplementing their fixed -or nonexistent- income by selling off their firearms collection. The rule already starts to creep towards further expansion claiming even that the same "classification of firearm" might expose someone to liability. (Almost ALL firearms would be the same "classification" (rifle, pistol, shotgun).
These citizens may have collected many of the same model, or kept them in collectible condition in their original packaging. This is not uncommon, but the proposed rule targets retirees by expanding the definition of "dealer" to include someone that might: "(4) repetitively sell(s) or offer(s) for sale firearms— (B) that are new, or like new in their original packaging or (C) that are of the same or similar kind (i.e., make/manufacturer, model, caliber/gauge, and action) and type (i.e., the classification of a firearm as a rifle, shotgun, revolver, pistol, frame, receiver, machinegun, silencer, destructive device, or other firearm)".

I fear this proposal may end up targeting the low-income, the retired, or those citizens who only engage in the smallest of hobby sales. There are already too many conflicting or unclear firearm rules. Wee have enough trouble interpreting those existing ones, which leads to abuses and infringements upon people's rights."
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 2:05:07 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Like they give a shit about public comments.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/2/2023 2:14:35 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Like they give a shit about public comments.

View Quote
They don't, but the numbers (might/could) matter.
Later, if the rule gets challenged (because yes, it's window dressing, it will be enacted) they could say "but no one, (or a small number of  people) had any objections" and it could hurt the anti case.

Link Posted: 12/2/2023 6:02:38 PM EST
[#30]
Not sure if anyone looked but I did. There are a shit load of women posting a form letter in support.

We do nothing and it may bite us.

Just saying

ETA: @Deadsquiggles already advised yous guys.
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 6:12:28 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This OP is seriously misstating the facts.

This proposed rulemaking was a statutory requirement of the BPSCA that was passed during COVID, and may I add, with remarkably bipartisan voting support. So, pester your senator or congress(wo)man if you're seriously pissed by that piece of legislation. This is not an autonomous move of the ATF at the behest of its director, who mind you is actually educated and qualified for the job this time.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/2/2023 6:17:00 PM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Exactly this. The corrupt trump trial judge ordered and received everyone on twitter who liked a trump post, hundreds of millions of data points.
You're adding yourself as a data point for no reason, like voting for the high school project bullshit frequently posted here.
It means nothing and does nothing except expose you.

There is no process anymore, fairness doesn't exist.
View Quote

Prolly so, but they have what they want on us at their finger tips already. Hell the very device I type this on is a tracker. Only real way is to 100% eliminate ALL digital devices. The way we have structured our life styles prevents about 95% (guessing) of us from being unable to unplug, go to ground and get OFF the grid.
Link Posted: 12/2/2023 6:23:52 PM EST
[#33]
the other side is spamming comments

we can too

https://www.gunowners.org/we-need-you-to-submit-a-comment-to-the-atf/

follow the link, fill in name and email address and hit submit, three or four clicks


Link Posted: 12/2/2023 9:05:33 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This OP is seriously misstating the facts.

This proposed rulemaking was a statutory requirement of the BPSCA that was passed during COVID, and may I add, with remarkably bipartisan voting support. So, pester your senator or congress(wo)man if you're seriously pissed by that piece of legislation. This is not an autonomous move of the ATF at the behest of its director, who mind you is actually educated and qualified for the job this time.

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/200-816.gif

Dude's got to be fucking with us.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 9:12:13 AM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Put my 3 cents in….someone should probably call dibs at this point…

I don’t have a dog, not sure if that is good (won’t loose a good dog) or bad (they had to shoot something)

FATF
View Quote

That is constructive intent to not be raided.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 9:15:10 AM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Exactly this. The corrupt trump trial judge ordered and received everyone on twitter who liked a trump post, hundreds of millions of data points.
You're adding yourself as a data point for no reason, like voting for the high school project bullshit frequently posted here.
It means nothing and does nothing except expose you.

There is no process anymore, fairness doesn't exist.
View Quote

Many years ago we learned that something as simple as visiting the LinuxJournal website is enough to get you put on a list.

CONGRATULATIONS! You should now feel an enormous sense of freedom in no longer having to worry about being put on lists. Because because if you are alive you are on lists. Period. Nothing you can do to change it.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 9:32:33 AM EST
[#37]
Ugh.  Just browsing the comments, randomly, I’m surprised at the number of supporting comments (even though most of them are copies of the same canned response some gun control group obviously wrote).  

I am also struck by how random their explanation is.  “Predominantly earn a profit, ”’principal objective’ of purchasing and reselling firearms must include both ‘livelihood and profit’” could mean anything or nothing (depending on if it’s some dude here selling a few guns or Hunter Biden selling a fleet of F-15s, respectively).  It would be better if they just set a hard threshold, but as they explained in their preface, that would mean they couldn’t “get it all” when it comes to gun control.  FATF.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 9:34:41 AM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Like I give a shit about their "rules"
View Quote



got a lot of unregistered machine guns dontcha, yeah, didn't think so

but since you do, and you don't give a "shit about their rules"

lets see some pictures of them brave boy
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 9:38:55 AM EST
[#39]
Do not submit a copy- paste comment, the courts consider the number of individual responses vs spammed mass responses. Take the 30 minutes to write something unique.

Kharn
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 9:48:36 AM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am also struck by how random their explanation is.  “Predominantly earn a profit, ”’principal objective’ of purchasing and reselling firearms must include both ‘livelihood and profit’” could mean anything...
View Quote

The IRS has already issued guidance on that, so comments should include the question of whether the ATF will be using the IRS's definitions for business versus hobby.  If the ATF is forced to use the IRS definition that clobbers the whole backdoor "no private sales" part of the rule.
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/earning-side-income-is-it-a-hobby-or-a-business
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 10:09:19 AM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Like they give a shit about public comments.
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This.  They will do as they wish, without impunity, and it will take the USSC years to undo their rules.  But by then, the damage is done.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 11:03:01 AM EST
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do not submit a copy- paste comment, the courts consider the number of individual responses vs spammed mass responses. Take the 30 minutes to write something unique.

Kharn
View Quote

BINGO!!

Give that man a SEEgar

And to expand on what @Kharn said, leave out rants, profanity & threats (yeah you'd think common sense right). Provide a clear concise argument.

With all the respect I can put forth I ask this: Those of you that say things like its pointless and like they give a shit, would you give up if some clown was stealing your property by thinking well fuck it he made it outta the house?   I know there will be arguments that my scenario is different and there is no comparison. Save the responses. I ask it rhetorically just to stimulate the thought of NEVER NEVER NEVER giving up, being beat and accepting defeat. Defeatism is repulsive and can be dangerously contagious.

Again this is posed rhetorically and respectfully ladies and gents.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 1:10:47 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The IRS has already issued guidance on that, so comments should include the question of whether the ATF will be using the IRS's definitions for business versus hobby.  If the ATF is forced to use the IRS definition that clobbers the whole backdoor "no private sales" part of the rule.
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/earning-side-income-is-it-a-hobby-or-a-business
View Quote


Specifically use...

Per IRS Tax Tip 2020-108, August 25, 2020....which defines the difference between a business and a hobby as: "whether they depend on income from the activity for their livelihood."

That's the killer.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 1:22:18 PM EST
[#44]
There are several examples I wish to raise regarding the "earn a profit":

1.) A person purchases a used rifle for $100, and several years later; trades it in with an FFL as store credit towards another firearms purchase, with store credit being $100 or slightly more. How will ATF account for the fact that firearms are extremely durable goods and retain their resale value at much higher rates than other types of consumer goods in their definition of "earn a profit"?

2.) A person purchases an imported firearm that was manufactured in Russia circa 2007 for approximately $500 to $800 dollars. The person then sells the rifle for approximately $3000 to $4000 circa 2023. How will ATF account for the fact that the market value of firearms can increase due to either laws or sanctions making future imports unlikely, increasing the value of existing firearms in their definition of "earn a profit"?

3.) A person purchases a Winchester Model 70 in the 1970s and then later resells it at current market values for retirement. How will ATF account for the fact that manufacturing changes can increase the value of existing firearms (Remington firearms manufactured before 2000 or Winchester Model 70 rifles manufactured before 1974) in their definition of "earn a profit"?

4.) A person purchases an imported military surplus Chinese SKS for $79.00 in 1987 and later resells it at current market values for retirement. How will ATF account for the fact that the military surplus market valuation is changing to one of scarcity, rather than immediate post-WWII abundance in their definition of "earn a profit"?


Link Posted: 12/3/2023 1:27:36 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



got a lot of unregistered machine guns dontcha, yeah, didn't think so

but since you do, and you don't give a "shit about their rules"

lets see some pictures of them brave boy
View Quote

Not today fedboi. Don't you have a Glowie Front rally to get to?
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 1:31:35 PM EST
[#46]
They'll ignore them all, and then it will be up to the judges to explain to the BATFags everything we already told them during the comment period when the rule is stricken.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 1:35:04 PM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Like they give a shit about public comments.
View Quote

This.  I work for a state government agency in a job that involves permitting access (driveways) for property development.  I'm required have the applicant notify their neighbors about the proposed development.  I'm then required to wait 30 days, giving neighbors an opportunity to submit comments and concerns.

Know what I'm NOT required to do?  Change my decision based on any comments or responses.  If you have a right of access, and there's no safety or operational justification for denial, you're getting your permit.  Comments just go in the file to prove that they came in and show that I "gave serious consideration" to them.
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 1:39:26 PM EST
[#48]
Telling the bully not to beat you up is fruitless
Link Posted: 12/3/2023 1:45:07 PM EST
[#49]
They don't give a single fuck about the comments.

That said, I'll continue to submit my comments on things that matter to me, such as this one.

Fuck the batfe.
Fuck joe biden.
Fuck the fed.
Fuck the fbi.
Fuck politicians.
Fuck anyone who supports any of the above.
Fuck them all.
Link Posted: 12/4/2023 7:47:44 PM EST
[#50]
It does make a difference.  FPC posted today about how the judge in the brace case noted that only 10% of the comments were original. The rest were copy paste letters.
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