The thought of starting up running again, especially since we're approaching the rainy season, doesn't thrill me.  I'm getting too old for all the impact anyway.

I want something I can do at home and am considering a rower.  Doing research is a little frustrating, as there doesn't seem to be a clear "best" magnetic rower (which may mean they're all about the same more or less).  Web searches bring up a ton of ads and middle-man fake review sites too- not helping!

I would like to hear from anyone who regularly uses a rower - thoughts, cautions, advice.

I'm leaning heavily (and not just 'cause I'm a bit overweight) towards the magnetic style for the noise factor.

I'm not at all interested in interactive coaching as a feature.  

I would budget around $600 to $1000

In.  Also considering.

The rower every cares about is the Concept2 which is about $1000, but it is loud.

Have you used one?  If not, they're in many gyms.  Try one out to hear how loud it is.  

A few years ago I bought a water rower for my 80 something mom.  She still uses it on a fairly regular basis, especially in the winter when she cannot get outside yard work exercise. The biggest advantage to the water rower is that it looks more like a piece of furniture rather than industrial equipment.  It is also rather quiet, and has a pleasing sound when using it anyway.

I've used the Concept2 in gyms.  They are excellent.  They are unobtanium now and I am on the waitlist which tells me my turn to order one is sometime in November.  No idea how long after that I can get one.

I am open to alternatives if some rowing guys can suggest it's equal or superior at a decent price.

Visit any boathouse, rowing club or college rowing program and you are likely to find Concept 2 rowers.  They are the golden standard.  

The C2 was designed as an ergometer, which means it's specifically designed to measure a person's performance and progress.  The Performance Monitor (PM) is very sophisticated but simple to use.  You can program your own workouts or use pre-loaded workouts.  For the "standard" workouts, you can post your time to C2's log and compare your performance to a worldwide group of peers.

The rower you would buy is identical to the rowers found in any boathouse, rowing club or fitness center.  They are all commercial grade.  

Have you rowed before?  It's a fantastic full body workout but not only is it difficult, it's very boring.  I sole mine for medical reasons and bought C2's bikeerg.  Since my sole physical activity is riding a real bike, the bikeerg makes more sense for me than the rower.

Concept 2 is working thru their waitlist but they also send out small batches to retailers like Rogue and maybe even C2's Amazon store front.  I've seen in Facebook groups where several people have lucked out and checked those sites at just the right time to buy a machine.

Good comments by Corwin. I can confirm. I bought a C2 off Facebook and love it. I’m very happy with it, even though it cost as much as my bench, rack, bar, and iron combine.

It has not gotten boring yet as I’m still making progress and working on form. I bought it as a cardio source. But I am usually trying to post a better 1k or 2k time, so it’s more of a sprint for me.

The PM5 is smart enough to tell me exactly how old the machine was and how much use it has seen. Only two months old and not much use. PM5 is an amazing monitor. And does everything I could ever want it to.

The noise is not as bad as some people say. I don’t hear it because I wear ear buds and blast my music. It’s in my shop gym, so the fam doesn’t hear it.

Thanks for the tip.  I'll check.  

For that budget, get on the C2 wait-list. I looked at water, magnetic and fan rowers before getting a PM5 a couple years ago. The water rowers seem like a mess waiting to happen, especially with kids and the magnetic rowers look like a pain to repair if something goes wrong.

Concept 2 seems like the best path if you want an air rower, but I'm pretty firm on the magnetic for several reasons.

What are the advantages of a magnetic rower?  And give some examples of good ones please.

Most important- they're very quiet.
The resistance is something you can set.  Air rowers give more resistance when you pull faster.  If you want a slow hard pull you'll need to go magnetic

Only rower I ever used was the ones in the gym and all of them were Concept2.  I honestly didn't notice a change in resistance but maybe I would if I could side by side them.  As to noise I wouldn't know.  its always noisy in the gym but if I get one at home it might matter so thanks.

former rower, coxswain and coach....

C2 model D is your best bet. Don't spend more on the E. it is the same thing but bigger. The noisy ones were the model B's with the open cage. The Model D makes a hissing noise. There is a fan damper to change the initial load when you get it going. Don't set it at 10. you will blow out your back. Most Olympic rowers set it around 6. Resistance is increased on how hard you pull after that.

Row Perfect is one used a lot in Australia/NZL and Europe. Great quality for a bit more.
Water rowers are super quiet. They stopped marketing them to rowers some time ago. I thought they went bust.

Just say no to cheap crap at sporting goods stores.

Try looking up the want adds in Row2k.com
I got mine off of that post CHRASH B sprints. (yeah, there are indoor regattas). Only used one day and it knocked off $500.  
Govdeals.com have used ones from time to time.
Or just join the local rowing club for access.

Air (fan) resistance cycling trainers used to be very popular with the same advantages and drawbacks:  a realistic resistance profile similar to road riding, but they roared like a turboprop.

Magnetic trainers came along and were much quieter, but they had a linear resistance profile that was much less road-realistic.

Then came fluid (hydraulic) trainers where the fan was inside a small drum of oil.  Best of both worlds, quiet and a realistic resistance profile, although more expensive than simple air trainers.  

Does anyone make a hydraulic rower?  I've seen water-based rowers that didn't offer much resistance.  They were ok, but the resistance curve was weird.

There are also air/magnetic rowers like Bodycraft's offerings. You get just air resistance at the lowest level (level 1) and a combination of the two from level 2+. Comfortable, smooth, and reliable.

If you're not training for actual rowing, aren't planning on getting involved in the Concept 2 community, and don't intend to do the crossfit "WODs" that require a C2, there's little reason to go that direction...from a fitness standpoint.

With that said, they do have a couple of advantages over most residential and commercial rowers. They're very, very simple to work on and the manufacturer sells parts for every C2 ever made, all the way back to the Model A. There's also a good bit of backwards compatibility, so you can retrofit a Model A with a Model C seat or handle, for example, or put a newer console/computer on an older model.

Then there's the resale value. No other rower will retain a higher percentage of its original purchase price. Not an issue if you absolutely love it, but if you're like me and find them mind-numbingly boring, resale value is a big deal. After a couple years, my Bodycraft rower was worth about 25% of what I paid for it while a C2 would've retained about 60% - 75%.

Whatever you do, avoid the department store brands like Stamina. Low quality stuff that not really intended to be used for more than a couple months.

Funny story: The family and I stopped by Academy a couple years ago to pick up cleats (or something) for my son, and they had a Stamina water rower on display. I'd never used one, so I figured I'd give it a try. Sat down, put my feet on the footrests (didn't use the straps), and gave the handle a gentle pull. Nice smooth resistance, so I decided to give it a harder pull. About halfway through the motion, the freaking strap broke and I went tumbling backwards, head over heels, onto the floor with the handle still in my hands. Messed up my back, my wrist, and my wife and kids laughed at me for months. I fully expect the security camera footage to wind up on AFV or Ridiculousness. Fucking piece of junk.

By way of an update....

I decided on the RW500 NordicTrack rower- it's both air and magnetic.  I guess I'm banking on brand name being better quality.

I checked the AAFES website for "rowing" and "rower" and didn't see any of the three NordicTrack models, but when I searched by the long version of the model number (NTRW99147) I saw the RW500 with one in stock.  I ordered it (saved $100 in sales tax plus got free shipping) and suddenly it was on backorder.

Something is fishy.  I know AAFES does some shady stuff, so now I'm wondering if someone internal ordered one from the manufacturer and hid it by not entering the keywords (rower, rowing, or RW500) so that it would sit there a while and they could get it at wholesale later.  It might just mean they drop-ship them from the factory too, but after 30+ years of dealing with AAFES I'm a bit cynical.  Searching under ANY search term does not bring up any NordicTrack rowers now....  

I own a fitness equipment repair company. C2s rarely break, when they do they are easy and cheap to fix. Machines that use magnetic resistance break constantly. The eddy system they use typically sucks- not totally sure if the rowers are the same because everyone knows the C2 is the standard.

I make a lot of money replacing magnetic resistance systems.

I make even more money fixing nordictrack machines, unfortunately they are entry level machines and they bank on people not using them.

I've been uneasy about it all along, and that isn't helping...

Order CANX.  Suddenly it's "available" again.  

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Yeah...not trying to be a dick of course, but when people ask what brand to buy NT is last on the list with the exception of shit you buy at walmart or order on Amazon. Some higher end NT commercial stuff is okay, but at that price point you'd be better off with other brands.

I know you're against an air rower, but it's your best bet. I built a couple Body Solid rowers as well and they seem to be pretty good to go, though they are air rowers as well...pretty much a copy of C2 with a couple neat storage features.

Appreciate the comments!

I'm also looking at the WaterRower brand- they seem to get good reviews and are easy on the eyes.

I'll also check out the one you mentioned.

Yeah, do some research on those. I don't know much about them, have only run into them a couple times. My understanding is there's some extra upkeep required and they seemed a bit noisy IIRC, but that may not be a factor for all brands. I used a Life Fitness one once and didn't care for it...and LF is usually pretty good stuff.

My experience with the water rowers is limited to a few in hotel gyms.  Their resistance profiles seem flatter than the C2 or an actual shell.

That's what I noticed about the LF model I used. if a C2 is 1-10 this thing was like a comparable 1-3 and that's it. Did not care for it...plus it was even louder than a C2.

I sold Waterrower for years. Much better for home than C2 unless you are already used to C2.

I bought a Waterrowrr for my step father. Loves it.

So what is the resistance profile of an actual shell?

Does the water resistance change from one body of water to another?

Yes C2 is all about changing resistance. Think of the Waterrower like running. The harder you run the faster your time right? Same with Waterrower. The harder you stroke the faster your speed. A C2 is more like running up hill. Higher the resistance and the more it becomes a strength building exercise.

When people want to be a faster runner do they pack on weights? No, they do sprints and higher endurance running.

Yes strength is a component but OP sounds more like he wants to replace the running with rowing. Of course weights are a component but as people age they start focusing on cardio endurance rather than packing on muscle strength.

C2 is more of a cardio challenge by increased strength resistance. Ideally suited to athletes who need to increase strength as well as stamina. Not a bad thing at all, just noting that not everyone has the same goals.

That's the brand?

That makes sense. C2 definitely is what I would want then, OP may be better served with the water rower.

This is the quietest option. Do they still manufacture new water rowers? They stopped advertising in rowing publications.

C2 is the most versatile rower. If you want the feel of water, you can purchase sliders. Water and air resistance will work about the same. The harder you pull, the more you move. C2 had a drag setting. In my lighter years 115 was probably the best. Now It is closer to 130 based on my weight. If you want a used one, look up the want adds on Row2K.com. I picked one up that was used once at the CHRASH Bs world indoor championship 10 years ago for almost half price. I was able to fit it in my wrangler because the Model C and latter split apart.

When I say resistance profile, I mean how fast resistance increases as speed increases. It's been a while since I was in a shell, but I remember the way that the C2 resistance and level of effort increase with speed to matche closely with actual rowing. The water rower effort curve was much flatter.

It doesn't have much to do with strength because endurance work occurs at a low percentage of max strength - even if you're only doing a 4-5 minute interval, you're doing something like 120-175 reps.  Who does sets of 150 reps to get stronger?

No it doesn't. Strength resistance?  Lol

I am curious what is funny about strength resistance?  I mean if you are a body builder then yeah rowing is just cardio for you.  If you are like me, over 65  with multiple major surgeries and extended months laying in a hospital bed rowing is cardio AND strength training.  Heck last extended stay I had to spend a week in a rehab hospital so I could get the strength to walk again.

So then by your logic a 5 mile run up a steep grade with a 40lb ruck is just a cardio exercise.

That may be true for some but a 40 year old male in average health would find that to be a strength challenge.

Hop on a spin bike at top resistance and keep the same RPMs as your 80% cardio ride and tell me there is no strength component.

The C2 may not have the resistance like a seated row machine but it still has an increased strength component other machines may not have. If that is what the OP wants then great get a C2, I was just trying to help him understand the differences between the machines. Thankfully he has gone away from Nordic Trac/Bowflex/ProForm. People buy those because they save some money and then learn they are crap and believe all home equipment is crap and never learn about effective, quality machines that actually allow people to get results.

Some manufacturers do, but I don't know much about it all. I know the LF one I used I didn't care for.

I think he means sort of what I was saying earlier about resistance. If a C2 can go from 1-10 a water rower can only go from 1-3 but depending on your goals, one may be better suited for you.

That's how I took it. I'm not a rower and don't pretend to be...I just work on the machines.

Still researching!

C2 does NOT offer a discount for military retirees, only a $50 discount for active duty military.  (as an aside, I never understood how a person's one week of service is more valuable than my 20+ years, but most mil discounts are not what they appear to be anyway.)

WaterRower offers 10% off their models.

Still haven't made a decision, but may need to get on the C2 waiting list if I decide to get one.

Might as well get on the list.  It costs nothing.  I've been on since August and they project I can order mine around November 3.

Strength = maximal force a muscle can exert i.e. a 1 RM

Endurance = the ability to do work (FxD) for an extended duration.

The average forces involved in endurance work are significantly lower than strength work.

When I run, I get about 1500 steps/footfalls per mile. In your run up a steep hill with a 40 pound pack scenario, it would probably be more because the steps would be shorter, but 1500 is an easy number to multiply.

5 miles at 1500 steps per mile = 7500 steps.

Pick any weightlifting exercise and tell me what percentage of your 1 RM you can do for 7500 reps. Would whatever percentage that number is be a good choice for building strength?  Endurance isn't limited by strength.  It's limited by the ability to do work for an extended duration - mitochondrial and capillary density in the skeletal muscle primarily, not maximal force.

Strength is limited by the ability to simultaneously and rapidly contract a large amount of muscle fiber - myofibril size/density and large (fast) motor neurons.

If you want to get strong, lift, push, or pull heavy things.  Heavy enough that you can only do small numbers of reps.

If you want endurance, do work at a relative intensity that is much lower than strength for an extended duration.

I ordered the WaterRower last night, and like C2 I'm on a waiting list (even tho the website says In Stock).  Not sure when I might see it, and as of this point today I haven't even gotten an order confirmation.

The WaterRower is supposed to be similar to the air rowers like the C2, in that the faster you try to pull the more resistance you get.  Being its much quieter than the C2 I think it'll fill more of my wants list.  There is some maintenance of the water required to keep stuff from growing inside, but the interval is long enough that I don't see it as a serious con.

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Interesting machine. Let us know how you like it.

Yesterday I got my email from Concept 2 for a new rower.  I joined their waitlist on Aug 11th and was finally able to order mine yesterday.

Congrats!

I must have got on really early for the bikeerg.  I signed up April 1st and had my bikeerg on May 26th.  It would have been several days earlier if not for the timing (Friday order & long weekend).

If any of you need some workouts for the Erg, let me know. I may dig up some from my coaching years.

How do you like the Bikerg?  I'm on the waiting list for one, but I'm wishy washy on if I'll actually get one.

I wish there was somewhere local I could try one out, but no luck so far.

I love it!  I had an Airdyne for years and the Bikeerg is much, much better.  

It's very adjustable for rider size, something the Airdyne lacked.  

The damper setting allows "resistance" from very light to very heavy, whereas the Airdyne only had one resistance level.

I also have no interest in an arm component and on the Airdyne you could not disengage them and the machine was calibrated for leg and arm use, so leg only was really heavy.  

The bikeerg also has a freewheel action, meaning you can stop pedaling.  The flywheel will begin to quickly decelerate, but you pause for a breather if you need.

Finally, the pedals, saddle and handlebar are bicycle industry standards so you can swap any of them out for your preferred option.

The Power Monitor goes without saying.  The thing is awesome.

The Airdyne is a good machine, but the Bikeerg is much better.

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