Posted: 7/12/2026 2:30:13 AM EDT
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What are your thoughts on them? Fad or way of the future? How do they compare to real Machine guns? Have they given you pause on buying anything or have l ad to you selling before the market collapses? |
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They are the first viable thing I've seen. Hellstorms and other bump devices are stupid. Binary triggers are just fucking dangerous and a bad idea. I don't think they are "just as good" as factory machine guns, but damn close. They are a little bit genius, instead of the bolt tripping a sear, the bolt simply resets the trigger. It's a slightly different experience. For collectors, I'd always rather have a factory MP5 than a safety sear setup, but for ARs I don't think there is a huge felt difference and it's going to mean a "legal" hire rate of fire capacity for one of the most popular rifles / carbines in the world and to that I say GOOD. Collectible pre86 transferable M16A2 and A2s are never gonna lose their values because there are only so many originals. I'd like to think FRTs will become so commonplace that maybe we can open up the damn NFA registry one day. |
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Quoted: What are your thoughts on them? Awesome. Fad or way of the future? Way of the future (for machine guns and full auto) How do they compare to real Machine guns? Less reliable in my experience. Especially when you convert non AR15s to FRTs. My non AR15 FRT experience is limited to roller lock guns and a fightlite MCR belt fed. They need a few years to be truly drop in and reliable across the board I think. Have they given you pause on buying anything or have l ad to you selling before the market collapses? I'm not selling anything. But I am eyeballing an Ohio ordnance M240 if that FRT ever comes to market. A Lima furniture conversion could make that a really nice addition to the collection. |
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Have shot a lot of MG’s. FRT’s in AR’s are like 95% as good as legit F/A AR, due to how short the trigger movement is. FRT’s in AK’s meanwhile suck ass and are not really fun to shoot. Real AK’s are fun to shoot in F/A. So- it depends…mainly on the model. And plenty of guns don’t have a viable FRT design yet, and might never. |
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Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. |
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Quoted: They are the first viable thing I've seen. Hellstorms and other bump devices are stupid. Binary triggers are just fucking dangerous and a bad idea. I don't think they are "just as good" as factory machine guns, but damn close. They are a little bit genius, instead of the bolt tripping a sear, the bolt simply resets the trigger. It's a slightly different experience. For collectors, I'd always rather have a factory MP5 than a safety sear setup, but for ARs I don't think there is a huge felt difference and it's going to mean a "legal" hire rate of fire capacity for one of the most popular rifles / carbines in the world and to that I say GOOD. Collectible pre86 transferable M16A2 and A2s are never gonna lose their values because there are only so many originals. I'd like to think FRTs will become so commonplace that maybe we can open up the damn NFA registry one day. I don’t think binary triggers are particularly dangerous. But they are like shooting a sewing machine…trash experience. Nfa machineguns are severely artificially inflated due to the false supply restriction. If FRTs become absolutely ok legally it is unthinkable that we would not see a drop in all machinegun prices. Their value does not come only from their rarity…but the rarity of their function. There may be a few people who are good with paying 1% of a NFA FA item for what is for all intents and purposes, the same damn thing. |
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Quoted: Less reliable in my experience. Especially when you convert non AR15s to FRTs. My non AR15 FRT experience is limited to roller lock guns and a fightlite MCR belt fed. They need a few years to be truly drop in and reliable across the board I think. What are the reliability issues you have experienced compared to “real machine guns”? Is a LL or RDIAS a real machine gun? Or just a RR m16? Bit of a muddy term. AR is definitely *the* frt platform…AK FRTs are trash imo. It is worth keeping in mind the SS was made for the AR…anything else is sort of a bonus. The MCRs run fine. The roller lockers are still coming afaik…oh well. I don’t think it is reasonable to criticize the function of a FRT in a platform for which it was never designed to work in…but still will. I have yet to have a single malfunction with my machinegun or FRTs. The FRTs are timed very well and run smooth |
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I have both. It depends on the system. In an AR, the FRTs seem not too much different but slightly. In an AK its a bit different and not as similar to the real thing. In an MP5 with SS AR Lower again very similar to the real thing I have to think its going to affect some prices as long as they are allowed. When they are banned you have these rapid fire addicts and then they go after the pre-86 guns and the price will go up for those again. |
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I’ve long said “a machinegun in every pot!” As an NFA owner I wish my entire collection was worthless overnight because form 1s could now be approved or the NFA was abolished and you could mail order a Dillon minigun from sears. There will always be some states where an FRT isn’t legal. Ironically, I live in Florida where NFA weapons are fine (if not encouraged) but FRTs are a crime. This means MGs will always have their niche (if FRT bans don’t expand). As others have said - the functionality is 95%. There are still a lot of firearms that aren’t easily adapted. I do think FRTs threaten the valuation of machineguns. A lot of people justify machineguns as investments - just like that second house they can rent out or that new boat they could put in charter. It’s not so much that they view them as a viable stock portfolio but more the potential financial upside justifies something they want to do. If FRTs existed back when I bought my MGs as a young lad (25+ years ago) I don’t know that I would have gone with machineguns. |
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I own both and several are historic guns that nobody will ever make again and no semis or parts kits even really (Lewis, Jap Type 99) Others are historic but parts kits are out there (Beretta 38/42, PPsH, 1919) so wouldn’t be hard to make them again if Hughes went away but aren’t FRTs for them. Really the only one I have I would be kind of worried about is an M16 but it’s a Colt XM-16 marked lower so it will still hold value. FRTs are fun, gets more people into shooting “full auto” so hopefully ranges start allowing it more. |
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I have both. But, I don't think that I need to worry about a frt made for an MP40 or Thompson. Same with Uzi and M11. But. I am not going to sell anything. Picked up a Kuna yesterday. I'll probably get an frt for that! Then again. My MG don't come out that often. I have a Lage m11/15 upper for the M11. Can't remember the last time I shot that. These days I'll rip a few mags with the tx22! Not worried about losing value of my stuff. Even if it depreciates a little. I'll always be able to sell for more than I paid! But my son would be rather unhappy with me if I did that. |
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Quoted: Former MG owner here: FRT’s are no less janky than any open bolt MG I have ever shot…. They are glorified rat traps. There are a LOT of open bolt MG's out there from Uzi's and Grease guns to M240s and Bars, why are they janky? It's a quick, reliable, easy way to prevent cook offs from a chambered round in a hot gun. |
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Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. Ah yes, the mark of someone that has no idea what they are talking about. I have multiple MGs and multiple FRTs. The RB MP5 pack nearly negates the desire for a sear. It's insane. |
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Quoted: Ah yes, the mark of someone that has no idea what they are talking about. Quoted: Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. Ah yes, the mark of someone that has no idea what they are talking about. Speaking of not knowing what they're talking about. |
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Quoted: lol Speaking of not knowing what they're talking about. Yea, what has colloquially been called "trigger slap" in the AK world is very apparent, almost painful reset. Go shoot a rare breed MP5 and come back and tell me that's "trigger slap" and then I can be sure you're being disingenuous. |
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Quoted: There are a LOT of open bolt MG's out there from Uzi's and Grease guns to M240s and Bars, why are they janky? It's a quick, reliable, easy way to prevent cook offs from a chambered round in a hot gun. Open bolt designs were a Cheap way to make MG’s-the safety feature only matters on belt Feds. Pistol and rifle cartridge guns don’t get sustained fire rates long enough to be a problem. |
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Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. Complaining about trigger slap with a FRT tells me you've never played with one. I'm an MG owner. I think Binaries are neat but lack usefulness. Range toy but cool idea. FRTs are awesome. 80% of the way there for a fraction of the cost though the ones I've played with take a little finesse on the trigger. I see FRTs getting more and more popular and I see states and the feds going after them more because they hate freedom. I've never shot a FRT that has trigger slap. Can feel the trigger wiggle under my finger but that's basically it. I really hope all of these things kill the NFA. Machine guns are ridiculously over priced and should be over the counter. |
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Quoted: Well…no. M-16s are running about $30k and there is no FRT worth a shit for $25. Or at all. $250, sure. It is pretty early to compare the two, we are one bad legislative session away from FRT=machinegun. . Super Safety is probably one of the best and can be found for under $100. Even around $70. |
| FRT's are a fantastic alternative if you can't afford the real deal. Gets you most the way there. Some hiccups aside. Obviously they'll never be as collectible or rise in value like transferable machine guns. Can't beat the OG machine guns. But hey FRT's are way cheaper!! I hope one day FRT's push the courts to legalize all machine guns again. Miss the old days of cheap machine guns. The NFA becomes increasingly irrelevant. |
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Not a MG owner but have shot a bunch. Binary triggers are not in the same league as FRT or FA in my opinion. Just not worth it. FRTs are awesome depending on the brand and setup. I think we will eventually see a "go to" for FRT design or brand, semi full safe in one package. I think the MGs that were sought after just because its a MG will get stagnant with prices, mainly ARs and Macs. Maybe take longer to sell. The truly rare collectibles will not be affected. People like myself that only wanted MGs for the brrrt are most likely happy with an FRT. My next project will be a Colt IAR with FRT. |
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Quoted: They are the first viable thing I've seen. Hellstorms and other bump devices are stupid. Binary triggers are just fucking dangerous and a bad idea. I don't think they are "just as good" as factory machine guns, but damn close. They are a little bit genius, instead of the bolt tripping a sear, the bolt simply resets the trigger. It's a slightly different experience. For collectors, I'd always rather have a factory MP5 than a safety sear setup, but for ARs I don't think there is a huge felt difference and it's going to mean a "legal" hire rate of fire capacity for one of the most popular rifles / carbines in the world and to that I say GOOD. Collectible pre86 transferable M16A2 and A2s are never gonna lose their values because there are only so many originals. I'd like to think FRTs will become so commonplace that maybe we can open up the damn NFA registry one day. Yeah I’ve always thought binary triggers were a dangerous concept but your the only other person I’ve seen say it. |
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As an MG owner (only an M11/9 but that still qualifies right?) and an owner of several FRTs I think you could see some impact on the low end MG market like my M11. I bought that many years ago because I wanted an MG and that's what I could afford. Now I can buy a semi MPA 30 for 400 bucks and an FRT for another hundred and have almost the same thing I paid thousands for. For those who want MGs to shoot, it will definitely impact their decision to buy and thus will slow the increase in price of shooter guns like LL M16s, M11s, etc. For collectors and the unusual guns it won't have an impact. On a side note, just as there are MG owners talking about how rare and unusual MGs, the reverse is true. Naturally this board focuses on the AR platform, but there are few or zero transferables of things like the VZ61, P90, G36, UMP and Vector that have FRTs available. A transferable AK74 is extremely rare but the FRT I have in mine is a pretty good substitute for less than 10% of the price. I certainly wouldn't buy a transferable AK to shoot anymore. |
| Hughes needs to be repealed. I can dream of a world where the NFA is abolished, but the reality is that the NFA isnt going anywhere. A repeal of Hughes to start allowing new production MGs on the registry for the current tax would be the most likely compromise. |
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Unfortunately, due to irresponsible gun owners and criminals, these will be banned by both parties in the future. All it will take is one mass shooting with one of these. Look how they banned legal Glocks in a few States simply because they could take an illegal conversion part. We just can't have nice things without others ruining it for the rest of us. Buy and enjoy while you can. |
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Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. ...dumbass question...why might a MG have a FRT, or do you mean there is no semi-auto clone with an FRT. Sorry was a little confusing, How to I get my FRTs to slap? I guess some do...none of mine have anything resembling slap. Yeah...I mean if there is not closed bolt semi there will never be a FRT for it... I would challenge you to describe the mechanism by which the AZR or arc-fire will fail...which is not really a showstopper. Open LMT, remove "broken" AZR, close LMT, shoot like normal. But they are easy 10k round units, they're probably gonna go longer than that. Or leave them in, iof the SS parts break the gun will operate in semi. You're familiar enough with the operation of the AZR to compare it to an autosear and find it lacking? Perhaps you are not aware of the entire market...there are plastic FRTs...some are built like they just need to dump one mag, some are built with a 6k psi buffer and run every bit as good as my buddies RR M16. Quoted: Super Safety is probably one of the best and can be found for under $100. Even around $70. I know, but I am being unecessarily pendantic...lemme 'lone.  Trigger kicker at $43 (or whaever). I am a hard pass for a crossbolt, but they are excellent and one of the better budget options....I would like to mention that the prices of the trigger will start to look insignificant as you use it...when you're $2k into ammo it's no really going to matter if you paid $25 or $250. |
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Quoted: Ah yes, the mark of someone that has no idea what they are talking about. I have multiple MGs and multiple FRTs. The RB MP5 pack nearly negates the desire for a sear. It's insane. |
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MG owner here, M-11/9 and RLL I dabbled with a couple binary triggers and bump stocks and they were hokey/dumb in comparison. The safe/semi/FRT ar15 ones are 95% as good as the real thing. Though not quite as reliable. I can swap buffers and stuff on a real MG and all that usually happens is rate of fire and recoil changes. Tweaking the setup or even ammo on a FRT AR can easily cause malfunctions. Plus I can stick whatever length upper I want on a MG lower without worrying. I’d need to SBR an FRT lower to do the same thing. The non-select fire FRTs (like for pistols and stuff) are cool, but non-select fire and crazy rates of fire make them basically range toys. Like a M-11 stuck on full auto. No way FRT remain legal. The first time Dems control Congress and the WH and reappoint a new ATF director… they’re gone. Maybe sooner if there’s a high profile mass casualty event using one. But even if ruled illegal, a good FRT is a nice piece of kit to keep around for the future. |
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Quoted: $50k for a Machine Gun or a $25 FRT... This is probably a bit hyperbolic but I believe the sentiment is spot on. Why pay tens of thousands for a MG when you can get the same basic function for a fraction of the cost - and avoid the obvious red tape and registry?? |
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Quoted: ...dumbass question...why might a MG have a FRT, or do you mean there is no semi-auto clone with an FRT. Sorry was a little confusing, How to I get my FRTs to slap? I guess some do...none of mine have anything resembling slap. Yeah...I mean if there is not closed bolt semi there will never be a FRT for it... I would challenge you to describe the mechanism by which the AZR or arc-fire will fail...which is not really a showstopper. Open LMT, remove "broken" AZR, close LMT, shoot like normal. But they are easy 10k round units, they're probably gonna go longer than that. Or leave them in, iof the SS parts break the gun will operate in semi. You're familiar enough with the operation of the AZR to compare it to an autosear and find it lacking? Perhaps you are not aware of the entire market...there are plastic FRTs...some are built like they just need to dump one mag, some are built with a 6k psi buffer and run every bit as good as my buddies RR M16. Quoted: Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. ...dumbass question...why might a MG have a FRT, or do you mean there is no semi-auto clone with an FRT. Sorry was a little confusing, How to I get my FRTs to slap? I guess some do...none of mine have anything resembling slap. Yeah...I mean if there is not closed bolt semi there will never be a FRT for it... I would challenge you to describe the mechanism by which the AZR or arc-fire will fail...which is not really a showstopper. Open LMT, remove "broken" AZR, close LMT, shoot like normal. But they are easy 10k round units, they're probably gonna go longer than that. Or leave them in, iof the SS parts break the gun will operate in semi. You're familiar enough with the operation of the AZR to compare it to an autosear and find it lacking? Perhaps you are not aware of the entire market...there are plastic FRTs...some are built like they just need to dump one mag, some are built with a 6k psi buffer and run every bit as good as my buddies RR M16. Not a lot of people are going to spend tons of money developing commercial FRTs for 80 year old belt Feds and etc, assuming there even any semi auto versions in existence. |
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As soon as the democrats get the white house and congress, it is 100% guaranteed they will band them. They have already done it in many of the states. All it takes it for democrats to get power one time and they can cause all kinds of damage that is almost impossible to undo. |
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Quoted: ...dumbass question...why might a MG have a FRT, or do you mean there is no semi-auto clone with an FRT. Sorry was a little confusing, How to I get my FRTs to slap? I guess some do...none of mine have anything resembling slap. Yeah...I mean if there is not closed bolt semi there will never be a FRT for it... I would challenge you to describe the mechanism by which the AZR or arc-fire will fail...which is not really a showstopper. Open LMT, remove "broken" AZR, close LMT, shoot like normal. But they are easy 10k round units, they're probably gonna go longer than that. Or leave them in, iof the SS parts break the gun will operate in semi. You're familiar enough with the operation of the AZR to compare it to an autosear and find it lacking? Perhaps you are not aware of the entire market...there are plastic FRTs...some are built like they just need to dump one mag, some are built with a 6k psi buffer and run every bit as good as my buddies RR M16. I know, but I am being unecessarily pendantic...lemme 'lone. Trigger kicker at $43 (or whaever). I am a hard pass for a crossbolt, but they are excellent and one of the better budget options....I would like to mention that the prices of the trigger will start to look insignificant as you use it...when you're $2k into ammo it's no really going to matter if you paid $25 or $250. Super Safety isn't only a cross bolt anymore. Oddly I rather prefer the cross bolt in an AR. I find it easier and faster for me. |
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Quoted: If Mr. Stoner thought that a FRT was a better solution, he would have used this method. He didn't. For a reason. Nothing against FRTs. He didn't because that wasn't a requirement. If he had to make a SA but allow for as much of a ROF as possible he probably would have. |
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Quoted: Not a lot of people are going to spend tons of money developing commercial FRTs for 80 year old belt Feds and etc, assuming there even any semi auto versions in existence. You might be surprised. There is quite an effort right now for a FRT for semi MG-42s. |
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Quoted: Yeah I’ve always thought binary triggers were a dangerous concept but your the only other person I’ve seen say it. How is a binary more dangerous than any other sort of trigger? More dangerous than a release trigger? Flow the rules of firearms safety and you'll be fine. Don't follow those rules and it doesn't matter what type of trigger you have. |
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Quoted: MG owner here I dabbled with a couple binary triggers and bump stocks and they were hokey/dumb in comparison. The safe/semi/FRT ar15 ones are 95% as good as the real thing. Though not quite as reliable. I can swap buffers and stuff on a real MG and all that usually happens is rate of fire and recoil changes. Tweaking the setup or even ammo on a FRT AR can easily cause malfunctions. The non-select fire FRTs (like for pistols and stuff) are cool, but non-select fire and crazy rates of fire make them basically range toys. Like a M-11 stuck on full auto. No way FRT remain legal. The first time Dems control Congress and the WH and reappoint a new ATF director… they’re gone. Maybe sooner if there’s a high profile mass casualty event using one. But even if ruled illegal, a good FRT is a nice piece of kit to keep around for the future. Man...I can't hardly get mine to not run. I have been honestly stunned at the complete and total lack of any issues whatsoever for the arc or azr. Same exp with binary...like shooting a singer sewing machine. I am not sure what seems to prevent this entire website from understanding (hell, Alito said it) that congress could pass legislation banning FRTs and I heard nothing to indicate that would be an issue for the court. The function of the trigger quote will mean exactly dick as soon as it is changed to "pull of the trigger"...bingo bongo done. I do not think they will be confiscated. There are significant entrapment by estoppel issue here, when the chief justice says "these are fine"...you cannot ban them and then immediately treat their possession as a criminal offense. I cannot imagine any resolution than to either open the registry or create another category within the NFA. Possible the couple require them to be married to a particular gun. If there is no amnesty it will be the first time I can recall. |