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They are awesome but I don't think they will remain legal. One mass shooting and they are gone they don't need to go looking for them simply make it illegal to use or posses. Ranges won't allow them at all and people will be afraid to even use them. I own both and will say for an AR FRT is the way to go due to price and how much your actually going to shoot it due to cost of ammo. Fire a few fast mags have your fun and its all good. MG's do have their place for collectors for example my S&W 76 there is no semi with an FRT option and with a conversion kit you can have a full auto select fire open bolt 22lr. |
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Quoted: If Mr. Stoner thought that a FRT was a better solution, he would have used this method. He didn't. For a reason. Nothing against FRTs. Stoner wasn't restricted by a narrow law that says one press and hold of the trigger makes it a MG. FRTs were created to achieve the same effect while using a different method and still staying within the confines of the law. |
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I have both open bolt and non open bolt MG's and have shot all sorts of transferable and postie ones. FRT is something we shouldn't need as MG's should be as legal as normal guns. That being said the AR super safeties with the normal selectors are pretty nice when they are designed to not require modifying the upper. I like the idea of the rare breed setup but don't care for having to pull the trigger to close the gun, nor do I like it doing forced reset in semi. In my experience they are not as reliable and I feel the trigger slap in my finger after shooting one at the range. For the price though I fully understand someone getting one and having fun while they are legal. Not as big of a fan of people jamming the ar triggers into everything else. Haven't tried the rare breed mp5 trigger but that or the ASD one seem like a much better option for me. Seen too many complaints on modifying hammers, slip trip issues, etc. I'm also concerned with modifying the host guns. Worried the ATF is going to try and claim its a MG or something in the future. Seeing companies actually do more than just copy hoffman and improve his designs is nice. |
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Quoted: I have both open bolt and non open bolt MG's and have shot all sorts of transferable and postie ones. FRT is something we shouldn't need as MG's should be as legal as normal guns. That being said the AR super safeties with the normal selectors are pretty nice when they are designed to not require modifying the upper. I like the idea of the rare breed setup but don't care for having to pull the trigger to close the gun, nor do I like it doing forced reset in semi. In my experience they are not as reliable and I feel the trigger slap in my finger after shooting one at the range. For the price though I fully understand someone getting one and having fun while they are legal. Not as big of a fan of people jamming the ar triggers into everything else. Haven't tried the rare breed mp5 trigger but that or the ASD one seem like a much better option for me. Seen too many complaints on modifying hammers, slip trip issues, etc. I'm also concerned with modifying the host guns. Worried the ATF is going to try and claim its a MG or something in the future. Seeing companies actually do more than just copy hoffman and improve his designs is nice. The RB single stage does sort of suck ass. And I have heard it does slap. Neither the AZR or Arc-five have any slap. The reset is timed now and offers no resistance to the bcg as it is pulled back. OTOH, the AZR-MBT beat the holy shit out of my finger until I trimmed it up...I could not believe a trigger than moves that little could hurt so damn much. Just curious; which require upper mods? I just have not ran into this yet. I think most of your post is pretty dead-on and I share several of these concerns. But while Cargil will not prevent congress from shit...the ATF may not go after FRTs like they did. The court is going to take a very dim view of that, they already told them they have to give back all the once they nabbed before they were declared not MGs. |
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Quoted: I think they are silly. Just legalize machine guns. Im fine with losing the money I spent on my M16 if people can get real machine guns. Dope idea brah. Seriously. I also want thjis... It will never ever happen because no one with any influence has any interest in it. I don't have a M16, but I have a M-11/9 that has 4x'd in value for me. I feel like I need to sell the damn thing. But I'd let the money go too if the registry was permanantly opened. It would sting. But it would be worth it...I want a P90. There is a 3rd option here, it's not perfect but it is imo probably the move; registry opens for 5 months, get my F1s in and I'm rich, bitch! |
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Quoted: Man...I can't hardly get mine to not run. I have been honestly stunned at the complete and total lack of any issues whatsoever for the arc or azr. Same exp with binary...like shooting a singer sewing machine. I am not sure what seems to prevent this entire website from understanding (hell, Alito said it) that congress could pass legislation banning FRTs and I heard nothing to indicate that would be an issue for the court. The function of the trigger quote will mean exactly dick as soon as it is changed to "pull of the trigger"...bingo bongo done. I do not think they will be confiscated. There are significant entrapment by estoppel issue here, when the chief justice says "these are fine"...you cannot ban them and then immediately treat their possession as a criminal offense. I cannot imagine any resolution than to either open the registry or create another category within the NFA. Possible the couple require them to be married to a particular gun. If there is no amnesty it will be the first time I can recall. FRT is still 1 round per trigger pull. If it were not it would be full auto. Congress could pass all sorts of fun things. Remember the AWB? |
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Quoted: FRT is still 1 round per trigger pull. If it were not it would be full auto. Congress could pass all sorts of fun things. Remember the AWB? Supreme court agrees as well. If they banned them by rate of fire Jerry would have to register his finger. So is Jerry's finger banned in FL?  Jerry's Finger vs Rare Breed Trigger |
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Quoted: I didn't know FRTs cost $25. Is this an exaggeration? Depends-they are Pennie’s if you print them out of plastic-they just don’t last as long and you throw them away. A TX22 FRT is like $20 if you aren’t stupid, and the best Glock FRT trigger on the market is $50 with a CNC’d and anodized trigger that has a factory style safety. |
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Quoted: Depends-they are Pennie's if you print them out of plastic-they just don't last as long and you throw them away. A TX22 FRT is like $20 if you aren't stupid, and the best Glock FRT trigger on the market is $50 with a CNC'd and anodized trigger that has a factory style safety. Hoffman is printing money with those. |
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Quoted: If Mr. Stoner thought that a FRT was a better solution, he would have used this method. He didn't. For a reason. Nothing against FRTs. We’d all love to have free M-16’s tossed out of the back of ice cream trucks in school zones the entire 50 states over, but your nose-in the-air standard of perfection is going to ensure that we NEVER see that day. Getting FRT’s into Common Use and mooting the NFA is the easiest path forward. Buy 10. |
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I don’t have a MG, but I have shot FRT’s, Binaries and real MG’s. FRT’s are not “just as guud!” But at the same time, they aren’t that far off either. We did a weekend shoot up north once and there were a lot of guns to play with, including FRT’s and binaries. Shooting the FRT was fun and we had some laughs with it, but I could only yeet so many rounds down range before it was enough. You don’t get bored, but you eventually scratch that itch so to speak. Then you go back to normal semi shooting. I wouldn’t want to invest the money into a MG when I can just send a mag or two down range with and FRT, giggle and then move on with my day. If you want it for some serious use, then I suppose the MG would be more reliable. |
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Quoted: We'd all love to have free M-16's tossed out of the back of ice cream trucks in school zones the entire 50 states over, but your nose-in the-air standard of perfection is going to ensure that we NEVER see that day. Getting FRT's into Common Use and mooting the NFA is the easiest path forward. Buy 10. Problem is too many folks have no idea if they have the right trigger or hammer. To me it's simple, to the dude who has never removed a FCG it's a huge deal. |
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As a former MG owner and a subgun shoot competitor and RO for them I recently had the opportunity to shoot an HK SP5N with a Rare Breed FRT. I found no real difference between my old HK MP5NA3 RR and the FRT gun. There is a vid of a guy shooting an NFA MP5 in one hand and one with an FRT in the other. They both dumped a 30 rd mag in the exact same time. Never got to shoot an FNP90 full auto but did get to shoot one with an FRT and it was awesome. |
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Adding FRTs to the NFA would be playing with fire for Congress if they want to keep Hughes. The number of FRTs in circulation ties rate of fire to common use. If Congress changes the definition of machinegun, then machineguns are now easily in common use. Goodbye Hughes. If Congress adds them separately, you still have an argument tying rate of fire to common use, which still opens an avenue to attack Hughes - especially if FRTs get the full-ban treatment like machineguns under Hughes. |
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Not a MG owner here, but imagine if you could go to the local Pepboys and and for 1% of the price of the real-deal, you can get a Cobra or Ferrari repli-kit for you car that literally, and I mean literally, turns your car into a 95% Ferrari in less than 5 minutes; looks, performance, interior, everything. Then on Monday turn it back for the drive to work, or maybe put it in your wife's car. FRT's will never be the real thing, so I believe original MG's will hold their value and keep increasing, but it'll allow regular people to get 95% of the experience. Shelby Cobra cars. Originals are $1M to $10M. Replicars on the other hand, some that can be argued to be better than the original, can be had for $50k-$150k and don't seem to have hurt the market for the real deal. |
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FRT’s saved me about $50k on a full auto MP5, and having shot both I can’t tell the difference between the two. Same thing with AR’s, I can’t tell a difference between an M16/M4 and an AR with an FRT… and zero of them with any kind of “trigger slap.” You put the selector in the third position, press the trigger, and to me it’s the exact same experience as shooting one full auto. I do have a transferable Swedish K, which is open bolt, and something that you’re never gonna be able to closely replicate with an FRT. I have no intentions of getting rid of it, and I still enjoy shooting it, but my MP5 and PS90 with FRT’s got shot a lot more. |
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I think they're awesome and I am a absolutely irate that I can own a machine gun but not a FRT in Florida. I will get many FRTs the moment they're legalized here. However, I also think it's super cool having a transferable open bolt sub gun and don't think MGs will ever be fully replaced. I do hope that the proliferation of FRTs both drives down MG prices and paves the way for the "common usage" crap to go away. I should be able to walk into a shop and walk out with a full auto M4 with M203 and suppressor for less than $4k. |
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Quoted: Binary triggers are just fucking dangerous and a bad idea. Citation needed. As an owner, Im not even sure how you could come to this conclusion. Ive heard this nonsense before and nobody has been able to come up with either a realistic scenario or one that doesnt apply to every multi shot system anyway. In some outlandish realm, i suppose i could, pull the trigger, fire the round, hold the trigger, turn to my buddy jeb, accidentally point the weapon at him while still holding the trigger (violating universally accepted gun saftey) and then release it, sending the binary round. OTOH I can safe the second round by engaging the saftey, finger still holding the trigger, abortin the second send. I hope that sounds as ridiculous and convoluted as it was to type, because it is. |
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Quoted: lol Speaking of not knowing what they're talking about. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. Ah yes, the mark of someone that has no idea what they are talking about. Speaking of not knowing what they're talking about. By definition FRT = Forced Reset Trigger is trigger slap no matter how gentile to you it feels. |
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Quoted: I think they're awesome and I am a absolutely irate that I can own a machine gun but not a FRT in Florida. I will get many FRTs the moment they're legalized here. However, I also think it's super cool having a transferable open bolt sub gun and don't think MGs will ever be fully replaced. I do hope that the proliferation of FRTs both drives down MG prices and paves the way for the "common usage" crap to go away. I should be able to walk into a shop and walk out with a full auto M4 with M203 and suppressor for less than $4k. The Florida ban needs to be challenged |
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Yeah…and it would be effortless to include them in the statutory definition: The term ‘machinegun’ means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term includes any weapon or device that expels more than one shot per continuous pull of the trigger through assisted or forced reset mechanisms, including forced reset triggers (FRTs), binary triggers, or any similar device that accelerates the rate of fire by mechanically resetting the trigger without requiring a distinct manual release and re-pull by the shooter for each shot. The term also includes any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun.” That language if inserted into the nfa bypasses cargil 100% and best case is amnesty/registration/the ability to sell them. They are going to get banned. Cargil will not be an obstacle to legislation. |
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Quoted: FRT's saved me about $50k on a full auto MP5, and having shot both I can't tell the difference between the two. Same thing with AR's, I can't tell a difference between an M16/M4 and an AR with an FRT and zero of them with any kind of "trigger slap." You put the selector in the third position, press the trigger, and to me it's the exact same experience as shooting one full auto. I do have a transferable Swedish K, which is open bolt, and something that you're never gonna be able to closely replicate with an FRT. I have no intentions of getting rid of it, and I still enjoy shooting it, but my MP5 and PS90 with FRT's got shot a lot more. |
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Quoted: Yep Supreme court agrees as well. If they banned them by rate of fire Jerry would have to register his finger. So is Jerry's finger banned in FL?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPFEqqnn8CgThe Supreme Court absolutely offered no official opinion as to what a machinegun is. They interpreted specific narrow law. All they said is that under the current wording the atf make not consider them machineguns because they do not meet the letter of the law. The majority even mentioned that congress would be the remedy here. If the numbers are there in congress FRTs are machineguns and you better pray you get to keep them. |
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Quoted: Depends-they are Pennie’s if you print them out of plastic-they just don’t last as long and you throw them away. A TX22 FRT is like $20 if you aren’t stupid, and the best Glock FRT trigger on the market is $50 with a CNC’d and anodized trigger that has a factory style safety. Quoted: Depends-they are Pennie’s if you print them out of plastic-they just don’t last as long and you throw them away. A TX22 FRT is like $20 if you aren’t stupid, and the best Glock FRT trigger on the market is $50 with a CNC’d and anodized trigger that has a factory style safety. “If you aren’t stupid” Pretty clever…Tim is the man.  Quoted: I think the concept and availability is an absolute blessing. Seriously, you have to love and respect the American entrepreneurial spirit. I do t throw around “American boy genius gigachad”…I’m still blows away that we have been staring at this fcg for how many decades… I beet 3d printing made dev changes a bit easier at first. |
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Quoted: Yeah and it would be effortless to include them in the statutory definition: The term 'machinegun' means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term includes any weapon or device that expels more than one shot per continuous pull of the trigger through assisted or forced reset mechanisms, including forced reset triggers (FRTs), binary triggers, or any similar device that accelerates the rate of fire by mechanically resetting the trigger without requiring a distinct manual release and re-pull by the shooter for each shot. The term also includes any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun." That language if inserted into the nfa bypasses cargil 100% and best case is amnesty/registration/the ability to sell them. They are going to get banned. Cargil will not be an obstacle to legislation. I form one 100 FRTs, now imagine what everyone else will do. Once a FRT is in the same category as DIASs triggers can be made with actual auto sears built into the existing FRT housing. With the above description during the amnesty I can build M240 FRT trigger packs that are actually just regular open bolt trigger packs. Just imagine the belt fed semis on the market now becoming legal with the amnesty trigger packs. I really don't think that is what they want. |
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Quoted: I thought about getting a M16 RR or a DIAS, after using a FRT I don't see the need. It’s silly. I have shot a RDIAS and a RR…I’m not sure what is supposed to be different that would justify their cost.m (I mean I know what they cost…I mean as a store of utility). The reset is literally not noticeable if it’s been tuned well. Or I have neuropathy in my trigger finger. |
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My experience: I had an original wood-stocked spring-driven Akins Accelerator. It was awesome. I owned machine guns at the same time, including a .22 conversion for the Uzi. I got to enjoy shooting the Akins for two years before ATF reversed their previous approval and I had to surrender my spring, making the stock mostly worthless. But I got to enjoy it for two years. I fully expect something similar to happen with FRTs. As noted by others, several states have already outlawed them. I still own and shoot MGs. I’ve only played a little with FRTs. But I plan to get a few and mess around with them and enjoy them while I can. Indirect experience: I shot a subgun match last fall that allowed FRTs. The one FRT shooter in my squad had some type of AR-9mm gun. I don’t know what type of FRT he was shooting, but for this type of competition it cycled way too fast to be competitive (probably 1200-1500 RPM. It sounded like a stock M11/9), and it had reliability issues. It looked like a fun toy but not at all competitive. Having said that, I have seen videos of others that run at a better (slower) ROF, and appear to be more reliable. As people continue to experiment, I expect these to only get better. |
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Quoted: Maybe, but there will be a amnesty period. I form one 100 FRTs, now imagine what everyone else will do. Once a FRT is in the same category as DIASs triggers can be made with actual auto sears built into the existing FRT housing. With the above description during the amnesty I can build M240 FRT trigger packs that are actually just regular open bolt trigger packs. Just imagine the belt fed semis on the market now becoming legal with the amnesty trigger packs. I really don't think that is what they want. Quoted: Maybe, but there will be a amnesty period. I form one 100 FRTs, now imagine what everyone else will do. Once a FRT is in the same category as DIASs triggers can be made with actual auto sears built into the existing FRT housing. With the above description during the amnesty I can build M240 FRT trigger packs that are actually just regular open bolt trigger packs. Just imagine the belt fed semis on the market now becoming legal with the amnesty trigger packs. I really don't think that is what they want. Of course there will be anmnesty. I been flying that flag all thread. And I they don’t want it. But it would be the first time (stop be if I’m gay I mean wrong) that the chief justice said “they’re fine”, if congress would like to unfuck, have at it”, the thing is banned…and then confiscated. Thats not happening. I’m not real sure they have a choice. The entrapment by estoppel (USSC told us they were legal, we are supposed to believe them) is a real problem for any solution that involves individual prosecution at any level. Quoted: My experience: I had an original wood-stocked spring-driven Akins Accelerator. It was awesome. I owned machine guns at the same time, including a .22 conversion for the Uzi. I got to enjoy shooting the Akins for two years before ATF reversed their previous approval and I had to surrender my spring, making the stock mostly worthless. But I got to enjoy it for two years. I fully expect something similar to happen with FRTs. As noted by others, several states have already outlawed them. I still own and shoot MGs. I’ve only played a little with FRTs. But I plan to get a few and mess around with them and enjoy them while I can. Indirect experience: I shot a subgun match last fall that allowed FRTs. The one FRT shooter in my squad had some type of AR-9mm gun. I don’t know what type of FRT he was shooting, but for this type of competition it cycled way too fast to be competitive (probably 1200-1500 RPM. It sounded like a stock M11/9), and it had reliability issues. It looked like a fun toy but not at all competitive. Having said that, I have seen videos of others that run at a better (slower) ROF, and appear to be more reliable. As people continue to experiment, I expect these to only get better. So that could happen because the atf approved it, the changed their minds…they made the rules. One time a shoestring was a machinegun. That was fun. That cannot happen with FRTs. We are past it. Congress can expand the definition of machine gun to include FRTs effortlessly. But they will not just be ably to show up and take them. Even when they could have not (braces) the atf opted for amnesty |
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Quoted: The Supreme Court absolutely offered no official opinion as to what a machinegun is. They interpreted specific narrow law. All they said is that under the current wording the atf make not consider them machineguns because they do not meet the letter of the law. The majority even mentioned that congress would be the remedy here. If the numbers are there in congress FRTs are machineguns and you better pray you get to keep them. States could do the same thing like some did with Glocks. |
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Quoted: $43 trigger kickers are in stock now. Hoffman is printing money with those. Trigger kickers are our current day RDIAS or LL for ARs, just way better. For $43 there is zero reason not to have several of them, even if you don’t plan on installing them. With 3 position versions on the way it’s going to be real hard to justify a registered lower. |
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Quoted: They are awesome but I don't think they will remain legal. One mass shooting and they are gone they don't need to go looking for them simply make it illegal to use or posses. Ranges won't allow them at all and people will be afraid to even use them. I own both and will say for an AR FRT is the way to go due to price and how much your actually going to shoot it due to cost of ammo. Fire a few fast mags have your fun and its all good. MG's do have their place for collectors for example my S&W 76 there is no semi with an FRT option and with a conversion kit you can have a full auto select fire open bolt 22lr. |
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Quoted: What are your thoughts on them? Fad or way of the future? How do they compare to real Machine guns? Have they given you pause on buying anything or have l ad to you selling before the market collapses? I think they are awesome. It doesn't seem the “same” as my real MGs but the price difference makes that negligible. I have less installed FRTs than MGs, but would like to have more platforms with FRTs because …..why not. As for your market collapse speculation, no one should buy an MG for the “market” that is rule number one in buying an MG. |
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I’ve got a transferable M16 I bought just because and have never shot it. (I’m a SOT, I can have beater post 86’s). After seeing the Atrius system, I’m tempted to sell it once and for all, but that’s the legal question: the MG is fairly legally “safe” from legislation. They’re as banned as they’re gonna be at this point, whereas FRTs are a hot topic / target for state bans, federal ban once a new president term starts, etc. To me, a real MG is kinda a way to safely cover bets to have full auto in the future with potential laws. Whether that’s important or valuable to someone’s up to them. |
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Quoted: Trigger kickers are our current day RDIAS or LL for ARs, just way better. For $43 there is zero reason not to have several of them, even if you don't plan on installing them. With 3 position versions on the way it's going to be real hard to justify a registered lower. |
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Quoted: Congress could say that FRTs turn ARs into MGs and ban ARs. States could do the same thing like some did with Glocks. No congress could not do that any more now than they could have during the awb or any other time they held congress...and never ever tried this. They *could* pass a law declaring all semi-auto machineguns...think that works? ...the court does hear that case if needed based on lower rulings...the DOJ does not win. It wouldn't be close...I'd actually be shocked if they did hear it. States can do what they want. Until the USSC says they can't...which seems to be happening on every gun case they hear. If there is a weapon in common use...it is the AR, with the AR and AR coming in 2nd and 3nd place. 100 million here, most in private hands...it is the definition (if there was one lmao) of common usage. USSC has granted cert to the CT/IL AR ban...CT/Il are smoked, they will lose the case. The AR is in far more common usage than any handgun heller sought to protect. If the court rules against IL/CT, there are no AR bans nationwide, pretty much full stop. SCOTUS rulings set binding precedent. A decision holding that AR-15-style rifles are "in common use for lawful purposes" would apply everywhere and make most (if not all) state/local assault weapons bans highly vulnerable or outright unconstitutional. |
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I travel for work. I’ve rented full auto all kinds of stuff all over the US. You know what the difference is between my cheap AP5-P with a full ASD lower and SD-E trigger and a real full auto MP5? I have a 3-3.5 pound trigger pull and I didn’t pay a decent F150 in price for the same effect. You absolutely can’t feel the FRT trigger pull when live firing, there’s no slap and I don’t have a 7 pound trigger pull. I’d upend the machine gun market if I won the lottery and not give a damn if Hughes went away the next day, but I’d consider my set up an improvement over a “real” MP5. |
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Quoted: Nfa machineguns are severely artificially inflated due to the false supply restriction. If FRTs become absolutely ok legally it is unthinkable that we would not see a drop in all machinegun prices. Their value does not come only from their rarity…but the rarity of their function. The things that would lose all or most value are things like lightning links. But there aren't gonna be any more original 1921, 1928 or M1 Thompsons. There won't be original Colt M16A1s or A2s. People will be able to make new machine guns, but it will be like clone guns vs. originals. The people out there buying vintage original machine guns will continue to do so. And the value definitely comes from rarity this is why even semi autos from WWII command the prices they do. |
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Quoted: “If you aren’t stupid” Pretty clever…Tim is the man. I do t throw around “American boy genius gigachad”…I’m still blows away that we have been staring at this fcg for how many decades… I bet 3d printing made dev changes a bit easier at first. Quoted: Quoted: Depends-they are Pennie’s if you print them out of plastic-they just don’t last as long and you throw them away. A TX22 FRT is like $20 if you aren’t stupid, and the best Glock FRT trigger on the market is $50 with a CNC’d and anodized trigger that has a factory style safety. “If you aren’t stupid” Pretty clever…Tim is the man. Quoted: I think the concept and availability is an absolute blessing. Seriously, you have to love and respect the American entrepreneurial spirit. I do t throw around “American boy genius gigachad”…I’m still blows away that we have been staring at this fcg for how many decades… I bet 3d printing made dev changes a bit easier at first. Most likely you are correct: Design, print, and then test and refine until ready for production using ordnance-grade materials. The mechanical engineering behind the designs that are out there are impressive to me. These things can be designed to work with existing hammers, triggers, and disconnectors. I’m not a huge fan of FA when engaging targets; the applicability of FA fire from a rifle or carbine is limited IMHO, but the longer these things are available to We The People the better off we are as a nation. |
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Quoted: Collectible pre86 transferable M16A2 and A2s are never gonna lose their values because there are only so many originals. I'd like to think FRTs will become so commonplace that maybe we can open up the damn NFA registry one day. Agree with all this. Those that can afford the real thing will do so because it’s authentic. Where I’d expect to see MGs losing value is the Mac 10 range of things. The MGs that people who want any MG buy because an M16 is out of reach. I can see an FRT being good enough to scratch that itch. But for collectors, I don’t think FRTs will replace the real deal. This coming from someone who owns exactly zero of either. I have plenty of SBRs and suppressors and may do an FRT for fun one day. But you can be damn sure if I ever won the lottery a helicopter with a mounted minigun would be at the top of my to-buy list. Also no offense to Mac 10 owners. That’s still more expensive by about 3x than any gun I own. |
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Quoted: Most likely you are correct: Design, print, and then test and refine until ready for production using ordnance-grade materials. The mechanical engineering behind the designs that are out there are impressive to me. These things can be designed to work with existing hammers, triggers, and disconnectors. I’m not a huge fan of FA when engaging targets; the applicability of FA fire from a rifle or carbine is limited IMHO, but the longer these things are available to We The People the better off we are as a nation. Outside of maaaybe my IAR...it's useless. utterly no advantage whatsoever imo. Ok that is not true. And I can see cqc shit work out with 3-5 round bursts, that is a standard serving size. But no one does that afaik. Semi only. Almost like if you run out of ammo you just die. It's impressive, it's fun and yeah...we are better off with them. And to be fair I can keep it all on an 8" plate better than I thought...but why am I shooting the bad man 28 times...?, it is not a way to put round right on target. I can't think of what it might be good for even really. |
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Quoted: lol Speaking of not knowing what they're talking about. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. Ah yes, the mark of someone that has no idea what they are talking about. Speaking of not knowing what they're talking about. In my own personal experience I have shot a number of full auto MP-5s and M-16 / M-4s. I also own FRT equiped versions of those guns. Really don't notice trigger slap. As others have stated it is noticeable on an AK. Would also put them side by side and its nearly impossible to distinguish the FRT version from the actual Machine Gun. Even the 3 round burst from Stuff and Things works excellent. Every gun I have setup after doing the proper research has been extremely reliable with an FRT setup. The only issues I have run into are ammo and magazine related issues. |