Thought I'd share some findings with my fellow tool snobs.  I recently had the garage floor epoxied like I had it at the last house (I missed having clean floors terribly!), and they had to rip out the old wood steps that go in to the house because they were crappily nailed together and glued to the concrete floor by my builder.  I'm in the process of building some new steps that are a little wider and with one more riser so I have a nice flat surface at the top where the aluminum threshold plate is instead of a sudden drop-off.  I'm still not done, unfortunately.  Always one more trip to Home Depot or ACE at the worst possible time...

So far, I've used the following tools that I had on hand already:

- Makita 18v brushless sub-compact oscillating multi-tool
- Makita 36v (2x18v) brushless 7 1/4" circular saw
- Makita 18v brushless sub-compact drill
- Makita 18v brushless compact impact driver

- Milwaukee 12v brushless Surge ("fluid-drive hydraulic powertrain") impact driver

Plus these new Ryobi tools that I bought just for this project:
- Ryobi 18v brushless compact drill
- Ryobi 15 Amp 10" corded sliding compound miter saw (not pictured - it's the one that is currently $269 at Home Depot)


I'll just get right to the juicy stuff.  The Milwaukee 12v Surge impact driver is absolutely fucking amazing.  So good, in fact, that I'm going to buy the bigger 18v Surge impact driver to replace my Makita 18v compact.  The Makita has done a fair amount of work for me at the last house, but omg... that Milwaukee Surge!    It's buttery smooth and quiet as hell as it countersinks the construction torx head screws.  I did a few screws back to back with the Makita.  The Makita is loud, clunky, and beats up your hand a lot more as it "snaps" violently with each impact compared to the Surge, which delicately "ticks" the screw head down with just perfect control.  I'm truly still geeked out by it.

For all the red tool aficionados out there who have tried both the Surge hydraulic drivers and the standard drivers, how does the latest non-hydraulic brushless impact driver (2953-20) compare in feel to the Surge?  If they work anything like the way my Makita works, why would anyone buy this model over the hydraulic model?

Also, the Makita oscillating multi-tool is an equally fantastic tool!  It made the drywall cutting so damn easy I actually laughed when I was done.  I'm sure the Milwaukee and other brands' multi-tools work the same, but I had no complaints with the Makita sub-compact.  In fact, both my Makita sub-compact oscillating multi-tool and sub-compact drill have been fantastic.  The drill has seen a lot of use and it's still going strong considering the size and weight.  That teal blue compact impact driver is starting to show signs of shitting the bed though.  It works fine most of the time, but sometimes I'll pull the trigger and the speed kind of fluctuates or sputters a bit.  Didn't used to do that.  I think it's a control board/circuitry issue.  That's why I'm looking to replace it before it totally craps out on me.

The Ryobi drill is shit.  I returned it already.  It was doing some weird high-pitch vibrating thing right off the bat, and I didn't like how vague the chuck lock feels when chucking a new bit compared to how snappy and positive the Makita chuck action is.  The Ryobi chuck barrel is also knurled steel and grabs the shit out of my hand.. in a painful, annoying way.  The Makita chuck barrel is smoother polymer and it just works with no drama.

The Ryobi miter saw is working fine.  No real complaints for the price other than I wish the workpiece clamp wasn't so worthless and annoying to use.  Going to have to YouTube some videos on how to clamp down a 2x8 or 2x10 board in a miter saw...not seeing any real good place on the cast aluminum table to position a separate clamp.  Suggestions welcome here.

Alright.  That's all I've got.  Some pics for the TLDR crowd:

I bought my Makita 18v drill and impact driver set nearly 15 years ago and still love them.  I worked for a non-profit for 7 years doing home repairs, decks, handicap ramps, etc for folks, so there was some semi-contractor use in there on top of my homeowner projects.  Still using the original batteries.

That being said, back in the 70s I installed security & access control systems in office buildings and we used nothing but Milwaukee tools (drills, reciprocal saws & hammer drills.)  Back then it was all 120v stuff.  I love me some Milwaukee, but have never tried their battery stuff.

The regular Ryobi drills I have work ok. My big complaint is the brake on them. When you let off the trigger, it stops so fast it loosens the bit. I use one for work, and it’s used often. Probably going on three years or more with the current one. I only use the 4 and 6 amp hr batteries, as the 2amp hr ones are good for about 2 minutes under use.

I have Milwaukee because my dad’s company gets a good deal on them and he gave me some. I make no claims that the tools are better but one thing about them, they almost always have more specialized tools than other brands.

If you need to spend Red money for that project.....

Me and the Bejamin sitting on my desk I saved buying green over red for home owner projects laugh at you

I have the 18v Surge and it is awesome.   I have a lot of Dewalt tools and I don't know why they haven't copied the Surge yet.

I don’t understand the question or the premise.

Just pick a color. Any color. One color is best. That’s up to you. Three colors? Fuck that.

I agree with this.   Sticking to one brand of tools simplifies your battery charging hassles.  

I am using exclusively Metabo HTP 36v/18v multivolt tools because Lowes stocks them and when I chose a system I wanted a middle ground in cost between overpriced red and consumer-grade Ryobi.

From my experience, those surge impacts get weaker over time. Even when new they don’t have the power of a traditional impact.

DeWalt all the things. Not Amazon or big box Dewalt, real Dewalt.

Makita Fo' Life
The sub-compact impact driver is so nice when you have to work overhead or take it up a ladder. My standard impact driver can bust loose a 75 ft-lb torqued nut but it's chunky. I once drilled a hole 8 feet away with it using extensions and a separate chuck. I figured it would be trash but still works 10 years later.

Too small of a project for any tool difference to matter.

I lol at the dewalt/Milwaukee/Makita/Ryobi/Ridgid wars.

Those are all for the poors. Festool or it's your life pal..

This! Track saw all the cuts.  And forget screws and nails, domino all the joints !

I have the full range of these brands.  They all have a place and most don’t work much better than a comparably powered model of another brand.  Keeping batteries to one is simple.  I’ve got multiple brands due to specialty tools, that not all brands make or one makes that one tool much better.

I have both the 12 and 18 volt Milwaukee Surge AND non-surge impacts.

The Surge is generally my favorite but only because it is a lot quieter.

The non-surge drive long screws WAY faster so if I have a larger job then the non-surge get used.

With lag bolts it is even more telling - non-surge is clearly faster from start to finish.

Screw that, I just buy bare tools and use the adaptors to run Milwaukee batteries on Dewalt and Ryobi tools.  Buy the tool you want from whoever makes the "best" one for the application.

Makita goes in the trash.

I really like the compact milwaukee M12 tools.  Have several drills, waiting for an M12 fuel jigsaw to arrive.
I've had one of their 18V drills for a long time.  It came with the big heavy nicad battery packs.   I found a LiPo adapter for it and now use them with the M18 lithium packs.   The adapter does add a good bit of height to the drill unfortunately.  That thing has always had incredible torque.   None of my other cordless drills have matched it - dewalt, or my makita 18V.  Maybe even better than an old AEG corded drill

That's the best strategy. If you can't, because one brand has a tool that you need and your brand doesn't have something comparable, search around and see if there are battery adapters. I know for sure there are some that will adapt Makita and other brand to Ryobi pretty easily. The other way around is a bit problematic since Ryobi has that stem on the top.

I'm into Ryobi. I'm not a pro and don't need a huge amount of use out of power tools. Plus Ryobi has a TON of other useful devices that use the same batteries. I got one of their stick vacuums, and it works really well. I plan on picking up more Ryobi stuff once my new house is done next month.

Thanks for the review OP. And thanks to others for sharing insight on the Surge tools.

Cheap past me bought a Black & Decker drill, and ended up with 5 B&D batteries and assorted tools (driver, recip saw, mini chain saw, weed wacker).

Pretty set on the next tool I buy being M18, and phasing out B&D as the batteries and tools die. I'm down to 4 batteries in varying condition. I would say my usage is relatively demanding for a non-professional and the cheap batteries and tools just don't hold up. Generally using the tools through 2 batteries with each use.

Well, I didn't spend "Red money" for the project.  I already had the 12v Surge driver.  I did buy some highlighter green tools though because I needed a miter for baseboard trim coming up next and the drill is for my dad so he doesn't come over and start using my nicer stuff.

Very first sentence of the OP.  Reading is fundamental.  I'd start there.

Excellent feedback.  Much appreciated.  I'm not a contractor.  Just a DIY kinda guy who likes and appreciates having good tools on hand when something does come up.  Sounds like I'd be plenty happy with the 18v Surge even if it's slower.  Biggest project I have in the near future is building a 14x18 shed this fall or next spring.  I'd value smoothness and quietness far more than outright speed for a project like that.

Hell, I have Milwaukee, Makita, DeWalt, Matco, Snap On, and Hitachi battery powered stuff in my shops...and use all of them regularly.

Mhm. It's rare one brand has the best tool. I'm a Milwaukee and Ryobi fan boy. Just recent bought a Bosch 18v sander, so smooth basically vibration free. It smokes anything else in it's class, not even close.

Mine's not so much which one is the best? as much as it is which one can I get from the pawn shop cheaper??

Acme tools pawn shop same same

You have one of the lower level Makita impacts there. The XDT19 is easily the smoothest running, most precise impact driver you can get. The trigger is like a butter smooth 2-stage. I can't say enough good stuff about it.

It's not as powerful as an M18, but it's not supposed to be. You'd have to try one to understand.

Let me know where your trash can is. I'll come pick'em up.

I should do a jobsight analysis..
Milwaukee is by far the champion, with Hilti in a close second.
Makita made on of the first 4 stroke cutoff saws , to heavy and the power band wasn't there.
Ryobi?, on a construction site they are junk.
Weekend warrior stuff? Sure, I own a few. The chainsaw and 3/8" impacts are OK.
Metabo? , good grinders that's about it,  everything else is junk

A lot of the Milwaukee love is marketing. I can imagine more-so in Wisconsin, even though Milwaukee is deeply chicom now.

Milwaukee is sort of the Chevrolet of tools. Lots of brand loyalty to the red and white lighting bolt similar to the dudes with bowties and truck nuts. Much like an LS powered Chevy, they DO have the power to back up the hype usually. They break more than they will admit.
Dewalt ls like Ford. They are kind of a punchline, but also sometimes beat milwaukee in power on the sly.
Makita is Toyota. Boring but really REALLY well built. Rarely there are some turds here and there, but the great engineering and mild gap in power between them and Red/Yellow usually means a more precise and longer lasting tool. A smaller but seriously diehard following.

Attached File

I have a lot of Ryobi stuff. For around the house projects it works well for me.

Got a 40 volt Ryobi weed trimmer and blower that does OK, but their heavy as hell. I usually use the gas ones...also Ryobi.

Really?
What do use on the jobsight?

What's your trade?

Please include pics of your dynamics,  daily job tasks,  and environment.

Your top tread should be one riser width below your threshold.

Sometimes that doesn't work out, though...I picked up a Ridgid 18v fan a year or so ago, thinking I could just use a Milwaukee 18v adapter.  Nope.  Adapter fits fine, but there is not enough room to fit the adapter and the battery.

Good info.  Thank you.  I ended up ordering this Special Buy combo from Home Depot that includes the M18 Surge driver.  If it doesn't live up to my expectations, or if my baby Makita driver keeps giving me trouble, I'll go ahead and take your advice to pick this one up next.

Milwaukee gives us problems at work. Odd enough I guess there's such thing as too much torque. We've had a lot of problems with guys snapping screws off or bending metal frames trying to snug screws down. They don't do touch very well like Makita does.

I will say when there's a screw buried in concrete and my Makita is struggling to get it out my co workers Milwaukee makes it look like a bitch.

He isn't wrong. Milwaukee is good for raw power and high capacity batteries but the trade off they aren't as well built and don't last as long as Makita, respectively. Home Depot also running deals on them constantly helps them sell a lot, and they do make some pretty nice trade specific tools that Makita or Dewalt don't make (plumbing and HVAC type stuff). A lot of partnerships with social media "influencers" also helps.  

I went with Makita in 2007 and am balls deep in them now, 16 or so batteries and like 20 or so tools (can't remember off the top of my head). I have some Bosch that started because I got some for free when I was part of the Vine program on Amazon, and one Rigid drill driver set that was stupid cheap and I couldn't pass it up. I wouldn't have a problem with Milwaukee stuff, but I started with Makita and pretty much stuck with them. No regrets. Though I am just a DIY type and have a sickness with tools the way most do with guns here. The Festool bug has recently infected me but I'm not going with their cordless stuff.

This sounds like a dumbass problem. I want my tools to do the job.  

Milwaukee FTW.  The bitches have enough power to make it shake, its up to the user to be mindful.

When I let my 2767 eat that fucker damn near tears my dick beaters off if I run her at 4. However, knowing I can snap  a bolt off if its pisssing me off enough is glorious.

I'm still using my 12 year Old makita 18v.. I did buy a milwaukee fuel 12v impact/drill set a couple months ago. Nice tools but I returned it because the drill was woefully underpowered. I prefer the lighter size of the 12v.

Well it wasn't underpowered but the nanny electronics shut it off when the going gets tough so it can't even try.

My dad got a 18v fuel setup recently also and ended up taking the impact driver back because something fell off and it no longer locked bits in. Home depot didn't have that model so they gave him a surge instead.

I concur, at first I thought he was stripping out the screws because of the weird sound it makes but I used it and was also impressed how much quieter and smoother it was. The surge model is not a gimmick it definitely is a different kind of impact driver

Makita also makes a hydraulic impact driver.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00M9D5JIO?tag=arfcom00-20

LOL ok dude that’s a big request for a casual post on a gun message board.

I’ve worked 28 years in new home/multi-residential construction in multiple states. I’m not busting out a photo folder over a light hearted post about tool brands.

Despite the hate, I've got a few different brands too.

I love the Milwaukee tools for auto work. Impacts, ratchets, etc.

I like the Makita tools for everyday use, especially the Compact LXT ones. I use them the most.

I just bought a Harbor Freight Hercules to try out after doing well in some reviews and like it, too. There's no reason that batteries cost as much as they do with the other brands

Sure there is. Batteries for tools are the ink jet and razor refill cartridges of their respective industry. A steady high margin revenue stream.

I don't like it, but that's the reason.

He isn’t wrong.

What is the best photo hosting site to share photos here?

My company buys so many tools we have a contract with Milwaukee and Dewalt. We burn up so many of a particular Milwaukee router that I have 4 in for warranty work right now, 3 in the office taken apart and 2 on order.

Brand loyalty indicates someone doesn’t know what they are talking about.


Milwaukee makes good hammer drills, corded saws, and decent impacts.


Dewalt makes our preferred impact and saws all. Their siding guns are shit and often impossible to repair. I have a graveyard of them.


Metabo makes the longest lasting framing gun by far. Their miter saw ergonomics are shit and slow my guys down too much.

Bostitch makes the best roofing nailer.

Ryobi won’t make it in our shop. It’s substandard.

Flex and Ridgid are  heavy. Ridgid miter saws are our backups.

All of the battery powered nail guns are too slow. We tested them all.  

Every brand has tools that are a strength and weakness. Who am I missing?

The Milwaukee surge replaced my 18v Makita for installing cabinets its so smooth and drives 3" screws fast and the Milwaukee oscillating tool is as good as my Fein one

You better go buy stock in Makita NOW. GD will see the Toyota analogy and Makita is going to fly off the shelves like Tacos, Tundras, and 4Runners

Im a Milwaukee guy myself, but I do dabble with Ryobi for one off project tools that I dont want to spend Red money on.

Impacts, drills, saws, ratchets, nailers, vacuums, lights?  Milwaukee

Garden lopers, toy inflators, glue gun? Ryobi

My tool chest is a mismatch of all the brands.   I'm a homeowner/light rancher.  No commercial use.  

I started out with Dewalt 20v.   Have a pretty decent assortment of drills, router, impacts.  The grease gun is great for maintaining equipment.  Never had a problem they're good.

Then I bought some Ridgid 18v tools on clearance at HD, the caulk gun has been a lifesaver.   Used the framing nailer to build some outbuildings - It's been worth a multiple of what I paid for it.  I always forget to register for the warranty but so far haven't needed it.  They've been solid.

Wife wanted some tools so I bought her some Ryobi 18v stuff when HD had the "Ryobi Days" a few years ago.  No complaints; they seem like a different housing on Milwaukee tools.   I will admit I was biased against the brand due to the "perceptions" but I think they're good enough.  

Last year I was able to get a whole bunch of Makita 18v LXT tools (drills, impacts, and the like) for dirt cheap new so I have a bunch of those too.  Including some unique tools such as a 3/4" impact.  

Going to focus on Dewalt, then Makita tools in the future.   The big plus about Dewalt is a number of the tools are "made in USA"

Most of the Milwaukee brags in threads come from the impact driver which is definitely stronger than the Makita. So strong it seems to break itself or the bit/fastener. It's a problem unto itself. There's only so much torque a T25 can take before it breaks in the work.

That aside, you're talking about impact WRENCHES in your reply. Here's the Makita 3/4" XGT01Z spanking the Milwaukee 3/4" AND 1" impact wrenches in a curbstomp.

To be fair, the Makita is using twice the voltage so it will of course be more powerful.

That aside, you're not wrong when you say a screw (as in 3" deck screws) can only handle so much torque before it, or the bit give way.

The watt hours are the same though, and Milwaukee gets an advantage with the wider 21700 cells vs the old skinny 18650s. Call it a wash. A tool with old battery tech whoops new tech with a different wiring arrangement.

Doesn't the XGT series use the 21700 cells? I can't justify the XGT tools for my uses despite having a sickness for tools, so I never looked too deeply into them (maybe for fear of falling into a trap). I know the LXT uses 18650 and that's one of the reasons Makita's 18V batteries cap out at 6Ah.