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Posted: 7/24/2022 2:24:37 PM EDT
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Posted: 7/24/2022 2:27:10 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't want to watch inrange. Whats the synopsis.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 2:29:49 PM EDT
[#2]
IN!!!!!
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Posted: 7/24/2022 2:30:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't want to watch inrange. Whats the synopsis. you just have to watch it There is a good back story, watch it at 2x speed |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 2:30:50 PM EDT
[#4]
watched that. it was a good video.
I hope KE-ARMS and everyone else being sued wins and can recover costs. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:00:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't want to watch inrange. Whats the synopsis. Its worth watching. Watched it a 1.75 speed. But basically, InRange has/had a "What would stoner do" DIY gun project. Lightweight gun, modern materials. One of the integral parts of this build is/was the polymer CavArms Mk2 lower. Due to legal reasons (some of us remember this), CavArms went out of business and sold the injection molds for this to a company called GWACS. GWACS sold out of lowers and (according to them) wore out the mold fulfilling orders from people doing WWSD project guns. Brownells approached InRange about turning it into a commercial project. GWACS goes dark for a couple of years, loses their LLC, doesn't return anyone's calls. InRange/Brownells goes to KE Arms (who produced other parts for the WWSD) and consults with them about making new molds with a brand new design lower. GWACS then goes full fucktard lawsuit and claims shit like they own the intellectual property of the CavArms MK2 lower (they don't) and that the KE Arms lower is infringing on their intellectual property because it 1. has an A1 length of pull 2. has a trapdoor compartment 3. I forget, watch the video So GWACS is suing basically everyone... and why? Oh, it turns out one of the "investors" for GWACs who helped buy the CavArms MK2 molds for them is funding the lawsuit and "has no interest in producing military style firearms for public sale" I'm sure I'm missing important details. Watch the video. You know, I always wanted one of those cav arms lowers back in the day but just never got around to buying one. I think I'll get one of the KE Arms one just to help support them against GWACS. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:02:59 PM EDT
[#6]
CAVARMS was a great company
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:19:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CAVARMS was a great company QFT |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:20:40 PM EDT
[#8]
I grew up around injection molding. I'm wondering how someone wears out a mold?
You can easily damage one if you don't know what are doing (they can be repaired). But its next to impossible to wear out a mold. My dad had molds that were ran close to 24/7 for 30 years that were still running fine. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:21:44 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:23:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CAVARMS was a great company 100%. I bought a bunch of the hot pink lowers for builds for kids. They loved those rifles! |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:29:46 PM EDT
[#11]
My two cavarms builds have been good to go for years. I hope they beat the BS lawsuit and it gets thrown out.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:34:02 PM EDT
[#12]
I got a few KE lowers just because I think they are cool. May slap my 6960 CCU uppers on them eventually
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:34:35 PM EDT
[#13]
I loved Cav dearly, but fuck GWACS. The KE lowers are vastly superior.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:37:39 PM EDT
[#14]
I still have 25 Cavarms lowers, unbuilt, I one of my safes. The ones that I have built are good
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:56:36 PM EDT
[#15]
I still have an unbuilt SEBR Mk2, and a rough-finish Cav-Aid lower too. Somewhere I also have a huge bag of that particular roll pin, no idea where though
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:58:14 PM EDT
[#16]
That was an excellent video.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:02:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Great, now I need to actually go get a KE Lower sooner than later like ive been meaning to.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:09:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up around injection molding. I'm wondering how someone wears out a mold? You can easily damage one if you don't know what are doing (they can be repaired). But its next to impossible to wear out a mold. My dad had molds that were ran close to 24/7 for 30 years that were still running fine. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:10:31 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:16:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I worked on injection mold machines, just trimming plastic etc. We ran them 24/7 for years. I find it hard to believe the small number of lowers wore anything out. I also doubt that GWAC had an actual injection mold machine. I bet they rented time on someone else's machine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I grew up around injection molding. I'm wondering how someone wears out a mold? You can easily damage one if you don't know what are doing (they can be repaired). But its next to impossible to wear out a mold. My dad had molds that were ran close to 24/7 for 30 years that were still running fine. IIRC those molds have been active since like 2004ish I also think that glass filled plastics do have abrasion properties that can wear on molds. Nylon 6 and 66 in this case. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:34:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Research Oppenheimer. Social justice interest…
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:48:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Sounds like the SJW filing frivolous suits is “Reed Oppenheimer.” I hope the denizens of the Internet make his life miserable.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:48:07 PM EDT
[#23]
So GWAC's claim is
1-Sean sells the mold to Russell. This transfers the related intellectual property to Russell. 2-Russell sells the mold to GWACS. This transfers the intellectual property to GWACs. 3-GWACs goes out of business 4-Russell, Karl and Ian design a new lower 5-GWACs rises from the grave despite dissolving the corporation (this guy from OK could somehow have GWAC's intellectual property. 6-GWACs sues over the new lower designed by Karl, Ian and Russell Intellectual property isn't my thing but 1-did GWAC's really obtain intellectual property related to the mold? 2-Do the current plaintiffs own that intellectual property? 3-what intellectual property is there? As Karl pointed out, Shawn himself didn't think there was anything to protect as this was existing technology. 4-how does the new design infringe on the cav arms intellectual property? Shawn's claim to fame is the integrated stock. Is that really "patentable" or otherwise protected? Do the plaintiffs really own Shawn's idea for an integrated stock? |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:50:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC those molds have been active since like 2004ish I also think that glass filled plastics do have abrasion properties that can wear on molds. Nylon 6 and 66 in this case. I don't think Cavarms or GWAC ever had the actual injection mold machine and just made small runs on rented machines. Although I don't know. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:54:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shawn's claim to fame is the integrated stock. Is that really "patentable" or otherwise protected? Do the plaintiffs really own Shawn's idea for an integrated stock? I want Sean's/Shawn's take on the situation. Karl can get Brownelled for all I care. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:55:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great, now I need to actually go get a KE Lower sooner than later like ive been meaning to. Do it! Next time I buy one I'll probably buy an assembled lower, I scuffed up my second one installing the bolt catch. Also, buy their safety. My first one is a regular safety from PSA and it has zero snap. I put a KE safety in the second one, it snaps but needs to be smoothed out some. The top rifle was 6 pounds with scope and light but before the sling. Milspec hammer and trigger pins work fine but don't extend all the way through, I put KE pins in the lower rifle and have a set for the upper rifle.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:58:30 PM EDT
[#27]
This is your reminder that KE did a run of lowers in Magpul OD Green.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:59:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think I'll get one of the KE Arms one just to help support them against GWACS. This^ |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:01:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So GWAC's claim is 1-Sean sells the mold to Russell. This transfers the related intellectual property to Russell. 2-Russell sells the mold to GWACS. This transfers the intellectual property to GWACs. 3-GWACs goes out of business 4-Russell, Karl and Ian design a new lower 5-GWACs rises from the grave despite dissolving the corporation (this guy from OK could somehow have GWAC's intellectual property. 6-GWACs sues over the new lower designed by Karl, Ian and Russell Intellectual property isn't my thing but 1-did GWAC's really obtain intellectual property related to the mold? 2-Do the current plaintiffs own that intellectual property? 3-what intellectual property is there? As Karl pointed out, Shawn himself didn't think there was anything to protect as this was existing technology. 4-how does the new design infringe on the cav arms intellectual property? Shawn's claim to fame is the integrated stock. Is that really "patentable" or otherwise protected? Do the plaintiffs really own Shawn's idea for an integrated stock? @aimless Don’t know if this matters, but Shawn didn’t create the first AR-style integrated stock. Colt created the first one in the 1960s. See here for more details. I believe (?) KE even has one of the original fully transferable Colt polymer M16 as part of its R&D library. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:03:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its worth watching. Watched it a 1.75 speed. But basically, InRange has/had a "What would stoner do" DIY gun project. Lightweight gun, modern materials. One of the integral parts of this build is/was the polymer CavArms Mk2 lower. Due to legal reasons (some of us remember this), CavArms went out of business and sold the injection molds for this to a company called GWACS. GWACS sold out of lowers and (according to them) wore out the mold fulfilling orders from people doing WWSD project guns. Brownells approached InRange about turning it into a commercial project. GWACS goes dark for a couple of years, loses their LLC, doesn't return anyone's calls. InRange/Brownells goes to KE Arms (who produced other parts for the WWSD) and consults with them about making new molds with a brand new design lower. GWACS then goes full fucktard lawsuit and claims shit like they own the intellectual property of the CavArms MK2 lower (they don't) and that the KE Arms lower is infringing on their intellectual property because it 1. has an A1 length of pull 2. has a trapdoor compartment 3. I forget, watch the video So GWACS is suing basically everyone... and why? Oh, it turns out one of the "investors" for GWACs who helped buy the CavArms MK2 molds for them is funding the lawsuit and "has no interest in producing military style firearms for public sale" I'm sure I'm missing important details. Watch the video. You know, I always wanted one of those cav arms lowers back in the day but just never got around to buying one. I think I'll get one of the KE Arms one just to help support them against GWACS. Thanks for the synopsis. I avoid giving inrange views when I can. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:05:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Wow, this Oppenheimer guy appears to be a real piece of SJW shit.
Here are his political donations: https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_name=Reed+Oppenheimer&two_year_transaction_period=2022&min_date=01%2F01%2F2016&max_date=12%2F31%2F2022 I’d donate to support maintaining Citizens United just to go counter to his efforts, but first the money needs to go to KE to beat this moron. Looks like we could just continue being ourselves to tweak this guy, but I still want to take a more active role in working against his interests. Wish I knew other companies he was invested in, for boycott purposes and to vote against his interests during shareholder meetings. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:06:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @aimless Don't know if this matters, but Shawn didn't create the first AR-style integrated stock. Colt created the first one in the 1960s. See here for more details. I believe (?) KE even has one of the original fully transferable Colt polymer M16 as part of its R&D library. Yes, thanks for posting that. Karl mentions that in the video as one of the reasons Sean (sorry I think misspelled that) didn't think he had a protectable interest. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:07:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, this Oppenheimer guy appears to be a real piece of SJW shit. Here are his political donations: https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_name=Reed+Oppenheimer&two_year_transaction_period=2022&min_date=01%2F01%2F2016&max_date=12%2F31%2F2022 I'd donate to support maintaining Citizens United just to go counter to his efforts, but first the money needs to go to KE to beat this moron. Looks like we could just continue being ourselves to tweak this guy, but I still want to take a more active role in working against his interests. Wish I knew other companies he was invested in, for boycott purposes and to vote against his interests during shareholder meetings. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:08:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is your reminder that KE did a run of lowers in Magpul OD Green. Yup Love mine. Color in real is lighter than what it looks in my pic  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:11:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Brownells appears to have stripped and complete lowers
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:13:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Cavarms was done wrong and never should have went under.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:22:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cavarms was done wrong and never should have went under. QFT |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:31:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cavarms was done wrong and never should have went under. They weren't just done wrong; they were absolutely done dirty. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:35:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They weren't just done wrong; they were absolutely done dirty. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Cavarms was done wrong and never should have went under. They weren't just done wrong; they were absolutely done dirty. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:43:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up around injection molding. I'm wondering how someone wears out a mold? You can easily damage one if you don't know what are doing (they can be repaired). But its next to impossible to wear out a mold. My dad had molds that were ran close to 24/7 for 30 years that were still running fine.  https://www.valenciaplastics.com/blog-four-signs-its-time-to-replace-your-tools/ |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:45:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 4-Russell, Karl and Ian design a new lower Karl and Ian didn't design anything. They spec'd a home rifle build which included a GWACS-produced lower, and then put their name on a commercial build, inspired by their original home build, which included the KE Arms lower. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:51:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Don't act like your a victim cry baby Karl. Cav arms did some shady shit and the company lost their manufacturing license because the owner is a felon. "Mini Cav Arms" (aka Russell and investors) does some shady shit and there are legal problems. Surprise! The legal system is setup just for disputes like this.
Funny that you can go to GAWC Arms right now and buy the FDE lower for 129 or the black for 149. This is all hogwash. Sell the product if you are right. Don't cry about you doing no advertising and that cost your money. Sell! Sell! Sell! |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:59:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This^ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think I'll get one of the KE Arms one just to help support them against GWACS. This^ +2 LGS had one Saturday, going by when they reopen Tuesday to make a build just for causes. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 6:01:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cavarms was done wrong and never should have went under. The Fed prosecutor was later tagged up in operation Fast & Furious. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 6:08:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up around injection molding. I'm wondering how someone wears out a mold? You can easily damage one if you don't know what are doing (they can be repaired). But its next to impossible to wear out a mold. My dad had molds that were ran close to 24/7 for 30 years that were still running fine. Aluminum mold (used to keep mold costs down, can wear out in a few thousand shots), plus high fiber content polymer (which the polymer lowers are, relatively speaking) The ar-15 lower is a precision dimension product, you only have to wear out an area of the mold with critical dimensions for it to need welding up and refinish to correct it. Likely GWACs did not want to pay to have the mold repaired to proper specs after wear. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 6:08:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up around injection molding. I'm wondering how someone wears out a mold? You can easily damage one if you don't know what are doing (they can be repaired). But its next to impossible to wear out a mold. My dad had molds that were ran close to 24/7 for 30 years that were still running fine. Material (glass filled is abrasive) along with others does wear molds. Pack and fill pressures along with where the gates are (design) impacts mold life. Nothing lasts forever. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 6:12:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up around injection molding. I'm wondering how someone wears out a mold? You can easily damage one if you don't know what are doing (they can be repaired). But its next to impossible to wear out a mold. My dad had molds that were ran close to 24/7 for 30 years that were still running fine. Did tou mold glass-filled nylon? My understanding is the glass fill eventually wears out molds. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 6:16:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Cav sold 40 guns to an out of state buyer, and didn't ship them to an FFL?
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-CAV-ARMS-LOSES-FFL-TO-ATF-and-OWNER-ADMITS-TO-ILLEGALLY-SELLING-40-GUNS-COULD-DO-TIME-/5-1003311/?page=1 And ATF allowed offsite molding of 100% work in process lowers, until it didn't? Was the out of state sale a sting set up because the ATF was losing on the mold case? https://www.saysuncle.com/2008/04/16/cav-arms-update/ The story so far: CavArms sold polymer lower receivers for AR-15s. The receivers were injection molded off site. CavArms reached an agreement and got an approval letter from BATF stating that the method of off site production was OK! ATF randomly changes it’s mind without telling anyone (like they do a lot) Then, they raid CavArms. ATF has initiated Civil Asset Forfeiture for all of the firearms seized in the raid. The list includes firearms that belong to employees, customers, and were here on consignment. We are not going to let them take it all unchallenged, we have retained counsel specializing in asset forfeiture and will be talking with them this week. We will update with more information as it becomes available. So, Cav closed its doors. Did the customers and consignors get their guns back from the Always Think Forfeiture! Is it a coincidence that was their slogan during the timeframe they were trying to rob Cav Arms? Dear Friends and Loyal Customers: As you may be aware, we have been engaged in an ongoing dispute with the ATF for the past two years. While Cavalry Arms has at all times tried its best to run a lawful and honest shop, unfortunately, some regulatory compliance mistakes were made. We have now come to the point where we feel it is in our best interest to close our FFL and to cease all firearms operations. The owner of Cavalry Arms, Shawn Nealon, has elected to leave the firearms business and concentrate on firearms accessories instead. We are currently in negotiations with another company for that company to purchase the CAV-15 product line. Rest assured that any resulting purchase agreement will address the issue of providing service and support with regard to existing CAV-15 firearm products. We will continue to manufacture quality plastic components, grow our Medical products line, and work to bring new innovations to the relevant markets. Over the next several weeks we will be conducting a wind-down of our firearms manufacturing and FFL operations. Accordingly, please do not send us any firearms for repair or replacement. Instead, such issues should be addressed to the ultimate purchaser of our assets. Due to our limited personnel resources, during this transition/operation wind-down period, the final processing and shipping of firearm receivers already in our inventory will be our first priority. We deeply appreciate your patience and understanding and anticipate that the relevant asset purchaser will begin operations in March of 2010. We sincerely thank you for your prior and ongoing support during these troubled times and look forward to better years ahead. Thank you, Cavalry Arms https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/cavalry-arms-leaving-firearm-business.1187546/ |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 6:21:34 PM EDT
[#49]
In for this one, I didn't buy one of the new lowers because of Karl's involvement with the project. I'm not surprised that something like this is happening, though I do wish Russel the best.
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Posted: 7/24/2022 6:25:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Karl and Ian didn't design anything. They spec'd a home rifle build which included a GWACS-produced lower, and then put their name on a commercial build, inspired by their original home build, which included the KE Arms lower. Sounds like from the video that they "consulted" with KE arms on stuff they thought the lower would benefit from. |
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