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NY, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 8:54:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By notarandomname: So who pays? The US pilot company they are forced to use or the ships policy ? "Pilots serve in an advisory capacity only, and have no legal or financial responsibility for any damages that occur." -Pilot spokesperson, probably Number of times I've been involved in a collision or other damage, and watch the pilot whistle as he walks down the gangway? Too many to count. Drop anchor in the wrong spot, pull up a crude oil pipeline? Pick up the submerged cable to an island lighthouse? Rip open the side of a bulker while turning around in the turning basin? Pilot pees in a cup, along with the rest of us. At most, gets a sternly worded letter from his commission, and goes on about his day. Irrelevant in this case anyway, as the lights out almost certainly point to a loss of power, not pilot error. The shipping company probably has a significant policy with Steamship Mutual P&I or one of the other clubs. Enough to cover that bridge? Yeah, no. What does a bridge like that even cost? 2 Billion? More? Shipping companies routinely incorporate each vessel separately, using shell companies, in an attempt to limit liability past whatever their insurance coverage is. No idea if Grace Ocean PTE does this, however. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 8:56:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By notarandomname: So who pays? The US pilot company they are forced to use or the ships policy ? Those three should pay as I bet the ship's crew and their managers knew what the issue was and decided to try for their next port of call for repairs. Sir Lanka would be much cheaper than repairs in Baltimore. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 8:59:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#3]
The FS Key Bridge is a convenience, nothing on either end is land locked without that bridge. The daily traffic was light at 31000 per day.
All that matters immediately is getting the steel out of the navigation channel and the Dali off of the pier. Plus crawling up that ship's ass by fed and state regulators and ship surveyors, followed by their reports of seaworthiness. Life and business will continue with a little more inconvenience that will be routine in a few months. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:03:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By AeroE: The FS Key Bridge is a convenience, nothing on either end is land locked without that bridge. The daily traffic was light at 31000 per day. All that matters immediately is getting the steel out of the navigation channel and the Dali off of the pier. Life and business will continue with a little more inconvenience that will be routine in a few months. There was a former transport sec saying the other routes have tunnels and restrict certain types of traffic and materials. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:08:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By styles: There was a former transport sec saying the other routes have tunnels and restrict certain types of traffic and materials. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By styles: Originally Posted By AeroE: The FS Key Bridge is a convenience, nothing on either end is land locked without that bridge. The daily traffic was light at 31000 per day. All that matters immediately is getting the steel out of the navigation channel and the Dali off of the pier. Life and business will continue with a little more inconvenience that will be routine in a few months. There was a former transport sec saying the other routes have tunnels and restrict certain types of traffic and materials. Send everything on the surface. It's a hassle from longer trips, not impossible. Restore the navigation channel and access to the harbor, worry about the rest later. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:15:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: R_S]
[#6]
For anyone not understanding what is going on here:
Biden saying taxpayers will pay for the bridge is essentially a confession that the event was not an accident (which is covered by insurance), but an act of war (not covered by insurance). This is how the IRA brought the British Empire to it's knees.... Blow up expensive infrastructure until the British government can't afford it anymore. The only question is who? Russians? Chinese? Iran? If you like our bridge destroyed... thank a Ukiebro today |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:18:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Send everything on the surface. It's a hassle from longer trips, not impossible. Restore the navigation channel and access to the harbor, worry about the rest later. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By styles: Originally Posted By AeroE: The FS Key Bridge is a convenience, nothing on either end is land locked without that bridge. The daily traffic was light at 31000 per day. All that matters immediately is getting the steel out of the navigation channel and the Dali off of the pier. Life and business will continue with a little more inconvenience that will be routine in a few months. There was a former transport sec saying the other routes have tunnels and restrict certain types of traffic and materials. Send everything on the surface. It's a hassle from longer trips, not impossible. Restore the navigation channel and access to the harbor, worry about the rest later. Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse a ‘FINANCIAL & ECONOMIC ATTACK,’ Lara Logan Reports |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:19:20 AM EDT
[#8]
They can’t rebuild that thing.
There are endangered cephalopods living in those waters. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:19:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Pay for it with student loan repayments? Or money headed to foreign wars? Or money headed to the south of the USA?
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SK, CAN
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:20:10 AM EDT
[#10]
It should come out what we’ve already paid in taxes beyond the insurance. F them.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:22:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: callgood]
[#11]
Her comments come a day after Biden said it was his "intention that the federal government will pay for the entire cost of reconstructing that bridge, and I expect the Congress to support my effort."  OK, FJB, we'll trade. Secure the bloody border.The damn bridge should have been brought up to the current code, i.e., islands to protect the infrastructure. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:24:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By markmars: Under the US Constitution Congress has the power to approve funds not the President. But democrats ignore this document. I thought the president had a small private stash that congress would authorize yearly for little stuff only a couple million though. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:24:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Grendel-OK: I mean, who else is going to pay for it? A bridge like that will cost, what a couple $billion? Maybe more? Does the insurance industry and the shipping company have that much cash to lay out, even if they didn't spend decades fighting it? How else do people expect to get a bridge like that rebuilt? As a matter of fact, yes. The maritime insurance company does have the cash to pay for it. It’s why the shipping company pays for insurance. They pay huge premiums because they have huge liabilities. I expect the fed will pay upfront for reconstruction with the insurance company finally reimbursing a part of the cost. Can’t let a cash cow like this go unmilked by the local/state/fed politicians. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:25:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R_S: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse a 'FINANCIAL & ECONOMIC ATTACK,' Lara Logan Reports Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R_S: Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By styles: Originally Posted By AeroE: The FS Key Bridge is a convenience, nothing on either end is land locked without that bridge. The daily traffic was light at 31000 per day. All that matters immediately is getting the steel out of the navigation channel and the Dali off of the pier. Life and business will continue with a little more inconvenience that will be routine in a few months. There was a former transport sec saying the other routes have tunnels and restrict certain types of traffic and materials. Send everything on the surface. It's a hassle from longer trips, not impossible. Restore the navigation channel and access to the harbor, worry about the rest later. Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse a 'FINANCIAL & ECONOMIC ATTACK,' Lara Logan Reports I was skeptical about the reported 50 foot Fort McHenry channel depth after I read the design summer draft of the Dali is 49.5 feet, so I checked the charts. Clearance is clearance, I guess, and that harbor requires threading a needle to avoid shallow water. I wonder how often Fort Carrol sees a near miss. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:25:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Wasn’t that a toll bridge? Please, let me pay for someone else’s toll bridge.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:28:17 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killstick_engaged: God forbid taxes are actually used to fund infrastructure. Taxes were used to fund infrastructure… then some crappy shipping company knocked it down. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:29:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Replace it with a tunnel?
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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:36:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R_S: For anyone not understanding what is going on here: Biden saying taxpayers will pay for the bridge is essentially a confession that the event was not an accident (which is covered by insurance), but an act of war (not covered by insurance). This is how the IRA brought the British Empire to it's knees.... Blow up expensive infrastructure until the British government can't afford it anymore. The only question is who? Russians? Chinese? Iran? If you like our bridge destroyed... thank a Ukiebro today No, Biden said taxpayers will pay for the bridge because he's an idiot. He doesn't know how the process works and he spoke before doing any research. That's why Yellen was trying to walk that comment back. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:51:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 21usernamechecksout: Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr https://c.tenor.com/QsHOleBpu9kAAAAC/evacomics-money-printer.gif LOL |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:59:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bounce19712: That's a wig. They ALL have whispy slimy hairs like Smeagol And, similar ethics. On topic: Will the replacement bridge be designed by the FIU bridge architects? |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:00:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By atavistic: Have Baltimore take out a $10B 'student loan'. Move along. 
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:23:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: I was skeptical about the reported 50 foot Fort McHenry channel depth after I read the design summer draft of the Dali is 49.5 feet, so I checked the charts. Clearance is clearance, I guess, and that harbor requires threading a needle to avoid shallow water. I wonder how often Fort Carrol sees a near miss. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By R_S: Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By styles: Originally Posted By AeroE: The FS Key Bridge is a convenience, nothing on either end is land locked without that bridge. The daily traffic was light at 31000 per day. All that matters immediately is getting the steel out of the navigation channel and the Dali off of the pier. Life and business will continue with a little more inconvenience that will be routine in a few months. There was a former transport sec saying the other routes have tunnels and restrict certain types of traffic and materials. Send everything on the surface. It's a hassle from longer trips, not impossible. Restore the navigation channel and access to the harbor, worry about the rest later. Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse a 'FINANCIAL & ECONOMIC ATTACK,' Lara Logan Reports I was skeptical about the reported 50 foot Fort McHenry channel depth after I read the design summer draft of the Dali is 49.5 feet, so I checked the charts. Clearance is clearance, I guess, and that harbor requires threading a needle to avoid shallow water. I wonder how often Fort Carrol sees a near miss. There is no doubt that ship was as heavily loaded as it could be. The wreckage of the bridge is creating a lot of problems at the moment: Baltimore Bridge Collapse May Cost Billions, Dramatically Disrupt Supply Chains For the shipping community, the accident will affect maritime lanes as carriers must seek alternative ports of call while the collapsed bridge continues to block the river, experts said. In 2023, the Port of Baltimore handled $80.8 billion in trade, including 1.1 million twenty-foot equivalent units, 1.3 million tons of roll-on/roll-off farm and construction machinery, 11.7 million tons of general cargo, and 847,158 shipments of cars and light trucks. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:29:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: R_S]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Msgathof: No, Biden said taxpayers will pay for the bridge because he's an idiot. He doesn't know how the process works and he spoke before doing any research. That's why Yellen was trying to walk that comment back. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Msgathof: Originally Posted By R_S: For anyone not understanding what is going on here: Biden saying taxpayers will pay for the bridge is essentially a confession that the event was not an accident (which is covered by insurance), but an act of war (not covered by insurance). This is how the IRA brought the British Empire to it's knees.... Blow up expensive infrastructure until the British government can't afford it anymore. The only question is who? Russians? Chinese? Iran? If you like our bridge destroyed... thank a Ukiebro today No, Biden said taxpayers will pay for the bridge because he's an idiot. He doesn't know how the process works and he spoke before doing any research. That's why Yellen was trying to walk that comment back. Brandon has people telling him what to do. Clearly Yellen didn't get a briefing yet... or she is just muddying the waters saying "My expectation would be that ultimately there will be insurance payments, in part, to cover this." One thing I have yet to hear anyone in the media say is what the speed limit in the harbor was for passing under the bridge. The ship was fully loaded and trucking along at 8kts right into the most critical structure of the bridge.... it's really hard to explain how a ship without power was trucking along at such a high speed in the harbor. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:33:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Another 28 Billion to Ukraine and 1 Billion to fix bridge in same bill.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:38:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Ship owner damaged the bridge, therefore they pay to rebuild it. Simple.
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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:59:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R_S: Brandon has people telling him what to do. Clearly Yellen didn't get a briefing yet... or she is just muddying the waters saying "My expectation would be that ultimately there will be insurance payments, in part, to cover this." One thing I have yet to hear anyone in the media say is what the speed limit in the harbor was for passing under the bridge. The ship was fully loaded and trucking along at 8kts right into the most critical structure of the bridge.... it's really hard to explain how a ship without power was trucking along at such a high speed in the harbor. Eight knots is not an unreasonable speed in a shipping channel. The vessel had two Pilots onboard and they would be directing the speed. I said early on that it seemed odd that they didn't have tugs alongside that soon after departure. I have never worked that port and I am assuming that's standard operating procedure there. Once again, the Pilots onboard would be making that call. I like conspiracies as much as the next guy, but I don't think this was some master plan by another country to destroy US infrastructure. It appears that the vessel was not maintained properly and it had a catastrophic failure at a very critical time. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 11:04:47 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yotehunter87: Another 28 Billion to Ukraine and 1 Billion to fix bridge in same bill. Rebuilding a broken bridge shouldn't be a federal matter in the first place. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 11:19:48 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Rebuilding a broken bridge shouldn't be a federal matter in the first place. There isn't a single bridge that gets replaced around here without funding from the feds. The last mayor of my county seat used to complain about what he saw as the low amount of compensation for road projects because that annual mileage is exactly what they'd plan to do every year. Not a foot beyond whatever the compensated length of road was/ is |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 11:32:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Someone totals your 60 year old car, you think any insurance company is going to give you enough money to buy a brand new replacement?
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Posted: 3/28/2024 11:35:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Den of liars, thieves, shills, grifters and buffoons.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:18:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Msgathof: Eight knots is not an unreasonable speed in a shipping channel. The vessel had two Pilots onboard and they would be directing the speed. I said early on that it seemed odd that they didn't have tugs alongside that soon after departure. I have never worked that port and I am assuming that's standard operating procedure there. Once again, the Pilots onboard would be making that call. I like conspiracies as much as the next guy, but I don't think this was some master plan by another country to destroy US infrastructure. It appears that the vessel was not maintained properly and it had a catastrophic failure at a very critical time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Msgathof: Originally Posted By R_S: Brandon has people telling him what to do. Clearly Yellen didn't get a briefing yet... or she is just muddying the waters saying "My expectation would be that ultimately there will be insurance payments, in part, to cover this." One thing I have yet to hear anyone in the media say is what the speed limit in the harbor was for passing under the bridge. The ship was fully loaded and trucking along at 8kts right into the most critical structure of the bridge.... it's really hard to explain how a ship without power was trucking along at such a high speed in the harbor. Eight knots is not an unreasonable speed in a shipping channel. The vessel had two Pilots onboard and they would be directing the speed. I said early on that it seemed odd that they didn't have tugs alongside that soon after departure. I have never worked that port and I am assuming that's standard operating procedure there. Once again, the Pilots onboard would be making that call. I like conspiracies as much as the next guy, but I don't think this was some master plan by another country to destroy US infrastructure. It appears that the vessel was not maintained properly and it had a catastrophic failure at a very critical time. Sure. There is nobody out there with motive: How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline The tugboats broke away before the ship attempted to navigate under the bridge. They were called back, but too late: The Baltimore bridge cargo ship asked nearby tugboats for help just before it crashed. The pilot ordered the ship to drop anchor, and also gave steering commands, but by 1.27 a.m. the pilot radioed to report that "the Dali had lost all power and was approaching the bridge," Muise said. Am I the only one that thinks that no steering control, no anchor control, and full power to the engines is not right? |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:25:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: freerider04]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R_S: Am I the only one that thinks that no steering control, no anchor control, and full power to the engines is not right? Why wouldn't it be? The ship loses power, no hydraulics to steer. Backups are probably keeping engine control (possibly in a degraded mode of operation till power is restored). Anchor can be dropped off the brake but there's a lot that can go wrong with that (and the order to do that really shouldn't be the first thing that happens) and its probably not going to be effective for at least half a mile. It's a really dangerous procedure I highly doubt they were at full power either. They weren't moving particularly fast |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:26:36 PM EDT
[#33]
The speed at which fjb declared his intentions for the federal gov't to pay for this is quite suspicious.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:36:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blackx: Someone totals your 60 year old car, you think any insurance company is going to give you enough money to buy a brand new replacement? Whoever totaled it should. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:37:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamuelAdams1776: FPNI Also, FJB Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamuelAdams1776: Originally Posted By WesleyHardin: Fuck her too FPNI Also, FJB All of this |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:40:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Must suck covering for a boss with dementia.
Good. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:46:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blackx: Someone totals your 60 year old car, you think any insurance company is going to give you enough money to buy a brand new replacement? If it's that much of an irreplaceable classic, you should really have it on an "agreed upon" value or a special policy or something along those lines. And that "someone" would be on the hook. |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:12:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R_S: For anyone not understanding what is going on here: Biden saying taxpayers will pay for the bridge is essentially a confession that the event was not an accident (which is covered by insurance), but an act of war (not covered by insurance). This is how the IRA brought the British Empire to it's knees.... Blow up expensive infrastructure until the British government can't afford it anymore. The only question is who? Russians? Chinese? Iran? If you like our bridge destroyed... thank a Ukiebro today LOL No, it's an statement that there won't be anywhere near enough insurance by the foreign owned companies to cover rebuilding of the bridge and all other $$$ lost. |
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