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Posted: 4/23/2020 3:27:33 PM EDT
[#1]
USAC and ET are doing well right now. They pay dividends soon but you have to hold soon to be on record. Could make a little quick money on that and then put into an EFT like ERX (collection of some “strong” energy companies). Also take a look at USO for a potential longer term.
I am not an expert and actually do the same thing... TDA account opened in March with $10k and have been “trading”. My real $ is with a Pro at JPM. |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 3:30:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Enbridge. Will be back up.
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Posted: 4/23/2020 4:10:06 PM EDT
[#3]
If you don’t already know what forwardation and especially contango are, oil is not for you.
As the markets have shown, even the experts don’t know what is going on. Good luck. |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 4:11:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Smart money got out of oil by the end of last year. Nothing to do with decreased demand.
It may go back up, but not like you probably think. The oil industry faces heavy regulation in the future as do motor vehicles. Oil will decline like coal did. Globally it is projected that green energy and other related technologies will develop to be a 7 trillion market over the next decade. Smart money is looking for possible winners in that sector. |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 4:36:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you don’t already know what forwardation and especially contango are, oil is not for you. As the markets have shown, even the experts don’t know what is going on. Good luck. This with the below exception. There aren't enough bankruptcies yet.  Extraordinary Demand Shock Threatens U.S. Oil Producers |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 4:39:43 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 4/23/2020 4:56:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Smart money got out of oil by the end of last year. Nothing to do with decreased demand. It may go back up, but not like you probably think. The oil industry faces heavy regulation in the future as do motor vehicles. Oil will decline like coal did. Globally it is projected that green energy and other related technologies will develop to be a 7 trillion market over the next decade. Smart money is looking for possible winners in that sector. I don't know if you are talking about oil or the green sector but there is going to be another bull market for oil. People aren't going to trade in there oil based vehicles for electric in a depression when the price to keep using fueling them is rock bottom. Rock bottom prices are going to create supply destruction and then at some point demand will exceed supply and it will come back. All that said, I don't yet have a penny in energy yet. If oil was done China wouldn't be trying to take over the South China Sea and likewise nobody would care if they did. |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 5:11:29 PM EDT
[#8]
I finally found a purchase price I could live with for Shell after years of waiting. In at 28, dropped to 24 and now it's back to 34 or better. I'll hold this for a very very long time. It pays an 11% divi and was on sale at 50%off.
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Posted: 4/23/2020 9:36:10 PM EDT
[#9]
It hilarious to read about the retail traders buying May futures contracts, not knowing they need to physically go pickup the oil in Cushing, OK.
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Posted: 4/23/2020 9:57:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you don’t already know what forwardation and especially contango are, oil is not for you. As the markets have shown, even the experts don’t know what is going on. Good luck. Gotta learn sometime, for the first time, right? |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 11:03:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotta learn sometime, for the first time, right? You can learn by deliberately watching market as if you were in it. That is risk free. Buying in and doing the same thing is not. Bottom fishing is still the most expensive sport in the world. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 4:33:57 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotta learn sometime, for the first time, right? And you think one of the most tumultuous times in an industry which was already beset with problems, not the least of which was, ironically, its own success, is the right time and place to learn? |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 8:30:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And you think one of the most tumultuous times in an industry which was already beset with problems, not the least of which was, ironically, its own success, is the right time and place to learn? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gotta learn sometime, for the first time, right? And you think one of the most tumultuous times in an industry which was already beset with problems, not the least of which was, ironically, its own success, is the right time and place to learn? Come off it, dude. I haven't risked anything yet. Tell me, then, when is the right time to learn? Wait until...when? The good times? |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 9:19:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Tanker companies are/going to be raking it in with all this cheap oil going places. Dunno if I’d be directly investing in oil any time soon though.
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Posted: 4/24/2020 10:48:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Probably the safest investment is oil majors like XOM, RDS.B, CVX, BP. If you can wait 5 years I think these will be much higher. I don't believe green energy is any threat until it's profitable without massive government subsidies. Coal is down because of fracking creating excess NG not green energy. My opinion is this drop in price will cause producers to cut supply too much and when the glut is gone prices will spike. The excess cash being printed and the eventual inflation it causes will add to the spike.
There's also funds like USO and OIL that try to track the spot price, oil services like HAL or SLB, storage and infrastructure companies like KMI. All of these are more risky in my opinion some will probably be bankrupt before it's over. Those are the ways I know to invest in oil. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 10:58:10 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Come off it, dude. I haven't risked anything yet. Tell me, then, when is the right time to learn? Wait until...when? The good times? Lexington, I will tell you what I did to try and learn, I opened an ETrade account and I set up watch lists of companies I was interested in, One of my watch lists is oil companies and I can see now which ones are moving in the right direction. I will admit I have stayed out of oil because I think the market will drop again and if it does I have set up alerts so I know if and when I will want to invest. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 11:42:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Is WLL on anyone's radar? Looks like bargain basement prices.
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Posted: 4/24/2020 11:51:27 AM EDT
[#18]
VDE and XLE are what I own... diverse funds, pretty low right now. I just bought more XLE today.
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Posted: 4/24/2020 3:58:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is WLL on anyone's radar? Looks like bargain basement prices. That is because they went into a chapter 11 reorg. I would stay away as they are an upstream which is going to continue to be hammered for the foreseeable future. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 4:07:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is because they went into a chapter 11 reorg. I would stay away as they are an upstream which is going to continue to be hammered for the foreseeable future. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is WLL on anyone's radar? Looks like bargain basement prices. That is because they went into a chapter 11 reorg. I would stay away as they are an upstream which is going to continue to be hammered for the foreseeable future. No guts, no glory, right? Mentioned in this other “how do I buy oil” thread. After crashing WLL doubled two days in a row, pulled back 30% today. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 6:17:39 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: VDE and XLE are what I own... diverse funds, pretty low right now. I just bought more XLE today. I am normally a fan of index funds but this price shakeup is going to take a lot of companies out. I am not so sure owning them all via an index is the best bet. Might be better creating your own mix of the big dogs like Exxon, ConocoPhillips, Chevron, BP, etc. Maybe pick 5-10 companies that are leaders and unlikely to fail. VDE for example consists of 131 stocks. I wouldn’t be surprised if 1/4 of those don’t survive this downturn. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 9:55:24 AM EDT
[#22]
I got no good advice for you, OP. I bought 35 shares of BNO when the price was around $7.75 a share.
 Oh well, holding that bag now for a while to see how it all shakes out. I also opened an account with TDA. The Thinkorswim live trading software is awesome. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 11:38:06 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 4/26/2020 7:28:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Oil , the most valuable commodity in the world , is not going anywhere for the next 50 yrs,
The US producers did this to themselves, in 2015 production was 8.5 M bbl/day, today it’s 13M. They are shutting wells now, production will drop in the US, |
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Posted: 4/26/2020 8:35:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oil , the most valuable commodity in the world , is not going anywhere for the next 50 yrs, The US producers did this to themselves, in 2015 production was 8.5 M bbl/day, today it’s 13M. They are shutting wells now, production will drop in the US, Was it not an overall play to become energy independent? I was constantly seeing oil prices at a profitable margin for the producers and a reasonable price for the consumers. $2/gal gas is economically good for the consumers but when it started getting into the $3 range back a few years ago, it hurt us the consumer something bad. |
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Posted: 4/26/2020 12:39:13 PM EDT
[#26]
I have never followed energy but with the recent crash looked into it. Right now, I don't know that anyone knows whats going to happen. That being said, I bought a couple hundred shares of UCO and will see where it goes! Can let it sit for years waiting for it to go back up, and if it goes to zero no tears will fall.
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Posted: 4/26/2020 5:44:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have never followed energy but with the recent crash looked into it. Right now, I don't know that anyone knows whats going to happen. That being said, I bought a couple hundred shares of UCO and will see where it goes! Can let it sit for years waiting for it to go back up, and if it goes to zero no tears will fall. You are literally buying another ETF just like USO. Just because it has a ticker symbol doesn't mean that ticker will exist in a year. If you want to go long oil buy the biggest and best companies, not an ETF based on oil futures when there is almost no storage capacity left in the world. |
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Posted: 4/27/2020 12:51:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryAnd, USO is down again today, HOW LOW CAN YOU GO USO??? ETA: I'm sure it has to come back at some point |
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Posted: 4/27/2020 1:13:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And, USO is down again today, HOW LOW CAN YOU GO USO??? ETA: I'm sure it has to come back at some point The bold in red is what they call hubris. Just because there is a spot ticker price for oil doesn't mean that the ETFs attempting to track it will continue to exist. The most leveraged oil ETFs have already blown up so it would make sense that the less leveraged ones would be next. Bottom fishing is still the most expensive sport in the world. To be clear, I fully believe that oil will come back in something like a year. The bottom in the oil market will not come until the lock downs are absolutely done. Think of that as a good starting bracket to when it begins to make sense to start speculating. |
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Posted: 4/27/2020 2:06:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bold in red is what they call hubris. Just because there is a spot ticker price for oil doesn't mean that the ETFs attempting to track it will continue to exist. The most leveraged oil ETFs have already blown up so it would make sense that the less leveraged ones would be next. Bottom fishing is still the most expensive sport in the world. To be clear, I fully believe that oil will come back in something like a year. The bottom in the oil market will not come until the lock downs are absolutely done. Think of that as a good starting bracket to when it begins to make sense to start speculating. Examples of hubris :-) |
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Posted: 4/27/2020 8:34:28 PM EDT
[#31]
I looked at all the oil companies and bought some conoco phillips stock. I've also looked at occidental petroleum. Didnt have the balls to pull the trigger.
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Posted: 4/28/2020 7:59:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lexington, I will tell you what I did to try and learn, I opened an ETrade account and I set up watch lists of companies I was interested in, One of my watch lists is oil companies and I can see now which ones are moving in the right direction. I will admit I have stayed out of oil because I think the market will drop again and if it does I have set up alerts so I know if and when I will want to invest. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Come off it, dude. I haven't risked anything yet. Tell me, then, when is the right time to learn? Wait until...when? The good times? Lexington, I will tell you what I did to try and learn, I opened an ETrade account and I set up watch lists of companies I was interested in, One of my watch lists is oil companies and I can see now which ones are moving in the right direction. I will admit I have stayed out of oil because I think the market will drop again and if it does I have set up alerts so I know if and when I will want to invest. I opened a TD Ameritrade account and will do the same thing. Thanks. |
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Posted: 4/28/2020 8:03:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryThanks for the article. |
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Posted: 4/29/2020 5:16:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is WLL on anyone's radar? Looks like bargain basement prices. I've been watching it and MTDR.....but neither are tripping triggers for me ERX did me right today  
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Posted: 4/29/2020 5:55:33 PM EDT
[#35]
USO reverse split
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/04/25/united-states-oil-funds-about-to-jump-but-dont-sta.aspx |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 10:11:10 AM EDT
[#36]
https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-chesapeake-energy-preparing-bankruptcy-194407953.html
I hope you guys have liquidated your CHK positions. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 11:45:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doodlebug: I am normally a fan of index funds but this price shakeup is going to take a lot of companies out. I am not so sure owning them all via an index is the best bet. Might be better creating your own mix of the big dogs like Exxon, ConocoPhillips, Chevron, BP, etc. Maybe pick 5-10 companies that are leaders and unlikely to fail. VDE for example consists of 131 stocks. I wouldn’t be surprised if 1/4 of those don’t survive this downturn. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doodlebug: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: VDE and XLE are what I own... diverse funds, pretty low right now. I just bought more XLE today. I am normally a fan of index funds but this price shakeup is going to take a lot of companies out. I am not so sure owning them all via an index is the best bet. Might be better creating your own mix of the big dogs like Exxon, ConocoPhillips, Chevron, BP, etc. Maybe pick 5-10 companies that are leaders and unlikely to fail. VDE for example consists of 131 stocks. I wouldn’t be surprised if 1/4 of those don’t survive this downturn. Oh I agree, just from a birds eye level that's what I would still own. I also own Sonoco, P66, Shell and BP independently. I'm going to buy more P66 and ConocoPhillips. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 6:09:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m6z: USO reverse split https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/04/25/united-states-oil-funds-about-to-jump-but-dont-sta.aspx I had a decent amount thrown at that and then they do this... |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 7:38:16 AM EDT
[#39]
I’m into MRO @$4.75 and RDSB @$30.
I’m not a professional. I’ll hold these until at least next summer. |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 10:38:57 AM EDT
[#40]
I think there is more going on that just lack of demand and increased capacity. As another poster mentioned, the push toward green energy is out there but I will be first to admit I dont understand where this push is coming from.
Also, I seem to recall recently that the Trump admin has mentioned getting involved directly "taking a stake" in energy companies, so funds like XLE are probably going to find support, more so than pure oil plays like USO. Just my two cents |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 11:51:43 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eastwood123: I think there is more going on that just lack of demand and increased capacity. As another poster mentioned, the push toward green energy is out there but I will be first to admit I dont understand where this push is coming from. Also, I seem to recall recently that the Trump admin has mentioned getting involved directly "taking a stake" in energy companies, so funds like XLE are probably going to find support, more so than pure oil plays like USO. Just my two cents I’ve spent my entire career working in solar. There is a push (there at least) because we’re literally converting sunlight into energy. It’s a no brainer in the big scheme and any detractors just have some skin in the game somewhere else (or are dumb or are generally just terrified of the future). That said, oil is going nowhere. We need it for literally almost everything. Sure, there are cleaner ways to make energy, and maybe those take a bigger stake in that market down the road. But you cant turn wind and sunlight into lube. And for at least the very near future, oil is still incredibly competitive as an energy source. TLDR; Random man from the Internet spends whole career in and has entire livelihood dependant on solar energy; has no hesitation or qualms investing in oil. |
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Posted: 5/5/2020 3:01:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Any thoughts on RIG? Price indicates "going concern" level problems. If they survive for a couple years without BK maybe oil prices recover to levels needed to start drilling, or potential for a buyout? Obviously it's a long shot, but before I research it I thought someone might have some thoughts. |
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