House Democrats’ Gun Control Unenforceable Without Firearm Registry - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - House Democrats’ Gun Control Unenforceable Without Firearm Registry (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:04:35 AM EDT

[#1]

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Any idea how much time and money it would cost the gov't to record every gun, every gun owner, every gun buyer out there? Not talking about new sales, talking the ones already out there. There's no way.

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Mmmm, that means more, tasty, tasty government bureaucrats.

What is the one function of government? Yup, create more government.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:04:59 AM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:
Some of you really have no clue as to the process of a 4473.
Not defending it, just stating the facts.
When a background check is performed via computer, there is no information input, in regards
to the firearm or serial number. Rifle or Pistol and that is because of the age requirement.
Once the transfer is "proceed', the FFL puts the pertinent information on the 4473, which
stays with the FFL.

That picture of the boxes is probably FFLs that have forfeited their license,
at which time, those 4473s must be turned over to the ATF.

View Quote

Or in my case, not even phones into NICS as I have a CCW. As far as the ATF having the 4473's, spot on. Only FFL's no longer in business for whatever reason.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:06:30 AM EDT

[#3]

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So, when we register, do they issue us our own yellow stars to wear on our shirts, or do we have to provide them ourselves?

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The stars will be provided, as will the tattoos.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:06:44 AM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted:
Any idea how much time and money it would cost the gov't to record every gun, every gun owner, every gun buyer out there? Not talking about new sales, talking the ones already out there. There's no way.

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Cost is no object.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:07:22 AM EDT

[#5]

Please let RBG retire this week then let the SCOTUS fix this shit right quick.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:09:40 AM EDT

[#6]

Fuck the Democrats. This is now a full court press to disarm America, you can tell they are panicking and are acting like they can't get it done fast enough. Their weapons now are PC, mounting number of gun/ mag/ammo laws, Red Flag laws, social media attacks, the concept of guilty until proven innocent, etc. They in full attack mode against our Constitution going after the First, the Second and the Fourth. It is not to improve America or safety, it is to allow them to have total power. This runs way deeper that their bullshit of keeping people safe. Democrats have become a hybrid socialist /fascist party at this point.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:09:42 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
Some of you really have no clue as to the process of a 4473.
Not defending it, just stating the facts.
When a background check is performed via computer, there is no information input, in regards
to the firearm or serial number. Rifle or Pistol and that is because of the age requirement.
Once the transfer is "proceed', the FFL puts the pertinent information on the 4473, which
stays with the FFL.

That picture of the boxes is probably FFLs that have forfeited their license,
at which time, those 4473s must be turned over to the ATF.

View Quote

But the basis for a searchable record is there. Plus if they pass registration. It isn't rocket science to mandate serial number information during the background due to UBC.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:09:52 AM EDT

[#8]

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Ironic how Democrats won’t apply this same argument to deporting illegal immigrants

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Or abortion

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:10:12 AM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:
Ironic how Democrats won’t apply this same argument to deporting illegal immigrants

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Any idea how much time and money it would cost the gov't to record every gun, every gun owner, every gun buyer out there? Not talking about new sales, talking the ones already out there. There's no way.

But it's for the children........if it saves only one life........

Ironic how Democrats won’t apply this same argument to deporting illegal immigrants

Or locking up the insane. Parkland was an abject failure of liberal government on all levels. Fuck them.s

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:10:26 AM EDT

[#10]

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The stars will be provided, as will the tattoos.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
So, when we register, do they issue us our own yellow stars to wear on our shirts, or do we have to provide them ourselves?

The stars will be provided, as will the tattoos.

And this is exactly why I won't be registering my firearms.

?

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:11:15 AM EDT

[#11]

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Please let RBG retire this week then let the SCOTUS fix this shit right quick.

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LOL

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:29:21 AM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:
But the basis for a searchable record is there. Plus if they pass registration. It isn't rocket science to mandate serial number information during the background due to UBC.

View Quote

They would have to confiscate all of the 4473s from every FFL in the country. If they are going to do that
they might as well confiscate the firearms. Other than the age requirement for a handgun, a 4473 has nothing
to do with "what" you buy, but "can you legally" buy...on that day.

We are way to worried about what the Feds might do and not worried enough about what the states ARE doing.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:37:21 AM EDT

[#13]

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Seeing as how when Washington state did this, they wound up at last 3 years behind in processing and filing all this stuff, I don't see this turning into a epic, .gov sponsored fluster chuck at all.

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I strongly suspect that there are still many private firearms sales and trades in Washington state that go under the official radar, thereby avoiding the recording of the transaction.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:39:18 AM EDT

[#14]

That is correct.

'universal background checks' = universal registration

not gonna happen

X

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:46:07 AM EDT

[#15]

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And abortion.

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Some of you guys just can't help but insert this topic into EVERYTHING, can you?

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:56:15 AM EDT

[#16]

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Any idea how much time and money it would cost the gov't to record every gun, every gun owner, every gun buyer out there? Not talking about new sales, talking the ones already out there. There's no way.

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They cant even manage the firearms that are currently registered.

Posted: 1/14/2019 9:59:24 AM EDT

[#17]

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They cant even manage the firearms that are currently registered.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Any idea how much time and money it would cost the gov't to record every gun, every gun owner, every gun buyer out there? Not talking about new sales, talking the ones already out there. There's no way.

They cant even manage the firearms that are currently registered.

And you say this like it is a bug, not a feature to the government? How long is the wait for a Class III, or even a suppressor?

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:19:24 AM EDT

[#18]

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And you say this like it is a bug, not a feature to the government? How long is the wait for a Class III, or even a suppressor?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Any idea how much time and money it would cost the gov't to record every gun, every gun owner, every gun buyer out there? Not talking about new sales, talking the ones already out there. There's no way.

They cant even manage the firearms that are currently registered.

And you say this like it is a bug, not a feature to the government? How long is the wait for a Class III, or even a suppressor?

Depending on how long the shutdown is, it could be forever.

Supposedly they aren't processing new FFL's nor FFL renewals as a result of the shutdown. Thankfully as long as you don't move addresses or anything hasn't changed, you can still operate under an expired license as long as you sent in your renewal in a timely manner.

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:28:11 AM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:
Seeing as how when Washington state did this, they wound up at last 3 years behind in processing and filing all this stuff, I don't see this turning into a epic, .gov sponsored fluster chuck at all.

View Quote

Even Canada scrapped their long gun registry, and Canadian government is better administered, and their people more law-abiding, than ours.

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:37:42 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Any idea how much time and money it would cost the gov't to record every gun, every gun owner, every gun buyer out there? Not talking about new sales, talking the ones already out there. There's no way.

View Quote

They'll do the best they can with a limited budget.

So, every sale will be like getting an SBR or suppressor now: take a year or so.

Just be patient. For the children.

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:39:45 AM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:

I sell a gun, I look at a DL, copy the info and keep it in the safe for 5 years. Then I pitch it. Uncle comes looking after 5 years, they'll get a shrug.

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I sell a gun, I look at the DL, I take the cash, and go on my way.

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:44:44 AM EDT

[#22]

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You think they haven't been plugging those forms into a computer? Course they have, as soon as they get a bound book, they do that before putting the shit in storage. No way in hell they'd actually obey the law.

They're just fucking incompetent, is all.

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This.
James Clapper lied to Congress about recording our phone calls. They are building huge facilities to store data.
But, the 4473's are just sitting in boxes?

LOL

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:46:20 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
All NFA firearms have been required to be registered since 1934.

As an FFL/SOT I can tell EVERY inspection I have ever received the ATF has had to use my records to fill in the missing gaps for the NFRTR.

EVERY time.

Good luck with trying that on scale several orders of magnitude larger in scope. Not that compliance will ever be the goal stated or otherwise.....

View Quote

Here’s another real scenario one that happened in PA for a while with our not a database but it’s a database for handguns bought in state.

Cops pulls you over. You inform cop you have your gun, LTCF, etc. cop gets interested and runs serial number. Hey, this isn’t registered in the state. There were lots of very legal reasons a pistol wouldn’t be in the state’s database but the cops would take it for evidence or worse. After some lawsuits a lot of that fishing went away.

Now imagine a broken database at the federal level that some local cop is depending on.

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:51:14 AM EDT

[#24]

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Quoted:
So, when we register, do they issue us our own yellow BFL's to wear on our shirts, or do we have to provide them ourselves?

View Quote

FIFY

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:54:18 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
I sell a gun, I look at a DL, copy the info and keep it in the safe for 5 years. Then I pitch it. Uncle comes looking after 5 years, they'll get a shrug.

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Quoted:
There is a way to do it without a registry

/cryptic message

Nothing cryptic about the firearms registration that has already been in effect since the Clinton days on EVERY new firearm sold since then. Form 4473's are a registry. These might not immediately lead the gun snoopers to a particular firearm sold since then, but it will lead them to the original purchaser. If still alive, put the squeeze on and he'll tell if he still has it or to whom he sold it to. Most gun owners don't just own one. Trump up some shit to make him a criminal in illegal possession and then seize and destroy what he does own. Might land six firearms for the price of one investigation.

I sell a gun, I look at a DL, copy the info and keep it in the safe for 5 years. Then I pitch it. Uncle comes looking after 5 years, they'll get a shrug.

Lol why?

If it's not mandated by law, I would tell you to fuck right off with that.

Posted: 1/14/2019 11:04:09 AM EDT

[#26]

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The true intent of the bill is to criminalize large groups of people that do not vote for democrats.

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And there it is

Posted: 1/14/2019 11:12:02 AM EDT

[#27]

The sudden push is the behavior of folks who are scared, almost panicked.

Posted: 1/14/2019 11:19:10 AM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:
What ever.

Go for it. It will only improve the 80 percent market to the point of why the fuck would somebody go to a gun store a buy a gun,

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States are already pushing to get rid of 80%.

Posted: 1/14/2019 11:25:57 AM EDT

[#29]

The controllers know the current record of sale 4473 system is physically cumbersome to use for confiscation purposes. They know universal background checks aren't enforceable without universal titling/registration. UBC crashes by design and then becomes a stalking horse for universal registration. Low information and cultural commies and even herd-dumb-fuck-polite law and order conservatives will accept it once the 'need' is demonstrated and the Pirates steering the legislative ship go through the procedural but treasonous motions.

Thesis (crazy people shouldn't gave guns) -Antithesis ( protect sane people's guns by background check filtering the crazies out with no concern for practicality) - Synthesis ( protect sane people's current acceptance of a prior restraint (UBC) by making it ostensibly functional with registration/titling). Lather- rinse- repeat.

Since these new laws won't be under the tax code like NFA was there will likely be no titling/registration to legal entities like trusts. Wealthy people will be able to use corporations for corporate registration. DIY guns will likely also be outlawed. Pre-1968 pieces without serial numbers will need government numbers assigned and engraved.

This will have no impact on crime or mass murders, but will chill the once legit culture of armed citizenry. Isolate, demonize, freeze, this is all just the Rules for Radicals approach. Sadly it works all too well.

Posted: 1/14/2019 11:32:28 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Any idea how much time and money it would cost the gov't to record every gun, every gun owner, every gun buyer out there? Not talking about new sales, talking the ones already out there. There's no way.

View Quote

With the $1000 fee for a private sale backbround check, they’ll making money hand over fist.

Posted: 1/14/2019 11:35:37 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
The sudden push is the behavior of folks who are scared, almost panicked.

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They should be scared, but are too stupid to identify the real risk - collapse of property rights and western rule of law. Once guns are registered there will be grandfathering for one turn only. These will eventually get scooped up. The bulk of guns will be unregistered just as there are more unpapered war trophy machine guns than those in the registry. These off books pieces will by definition be black market assets and ultimately the source of criminal acquisition and misuse. Even worse, corruption will turn our police into overt criminals.

This is what will happen by focusing the law wrongly on inanimate objects of civilizing utility instead of focusing the law on protecting the rights of the peaceable and productive.

Posted: 1/14/2019 12:22:39 PM EDT

[#32]

Tell them we will agree to registration when they kick out every damn illegal in the country FIRST. No amnesty, no daca, all or nothing.

Posted: 1/14/2019 12:37:44 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
What ever.

Go for it. It will only improve the 80 percent market to the point of why the fuck would somebody go to a gun store a buy a gun,

View Quote

And yet we still have people in GD spouting off silly shit like "80 percent projects are dumb, you're not saving any money"

Posted: 1/14/2019 12:48:39 PM EDT

[#34]

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And yet we still have people in GD spouting off silly shit like "80 percent projects are dumb, you're not saving any money"

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Checkers versus chess. The left's leaders don't play checkers. Plan accordingly.

Posted: 1/14/2019 1:38:01 PM EDT

[#35]

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And yet we still have people in GD spouting off silly shit like "80 percent projects are dumb, you're not saving any money"

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Quoted:

Quoted:
What ever.

Go for it. It will only improve the 80 percent market to the point of why the fuck would somebody go to a gun store a buy a gun,

And yet we still have people in GD spouting off silly shit like "80 percent projects are dumb, you're not saving any money"

You are aware if they can pass UBC or Registration they can regulate parts too right? In most European countries parts like barrels, slides, and bolts are heavily regulated. The same can be done here. It is already done to a degree with certain fire control parts and anything that is deemed to be part of a suppressor. The BATFE can declare some hogwash that barrels need to be regulated because they're critical to what makes a receiver.

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:19:14 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
Some of you really have no clue as to the process of a 4473.
Not defending it, just stating the facts.
When a background check is performed via computer, there is no information input, in regards
to the firearm or serial number. Rifle or Pistol and that is because of the age requirement.
Once the transfer is "proceed', the FFL puts the pertinent information on the 4473, which
stays with the FFL.

That picture of the boxes is probably FFLs that have forfeited their license,
at which time, those 4473s must be turned over to the ATF.

View Quote

all this means is "less convenient registration" so long as ATF can come look at the 4473s any time they want.

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:21:52 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
What ever.

Go for it. It will only improve the 80 percent market to the point of why the fuck would somebody go to a gun store a buy a gun,

View Quote

You mean make 80%s illegal?

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:27:00 PM EDT

[#38]

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Didn't the proposed bill outlaw that? I remember seeing something about no more "ghost guns" in it.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
What ever.

Go for it. It will only improve the 80 percent market to the point of why the fuck would somebody go to a gun store a buy a gun,

Didn't the proposed bill outlaw that? I remember seeing something about no more "ghost guns" in it.

And bills like that are the reason we have ghost guns.

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:35:04 PM EDT

[#39]

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Quoted:
Or in my case, not even phones into NICS as I have a CCW. As far as the ATF having the 4473's, spot on. Only FFL's no longer in business for whatever reason.

View Quote

Yep same here, haven't had a NICS call on a firearms for 10yrs.

Then again 4473s are gross

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:37:56 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

And you say this like it is a bug, not a feature to the government? How long is the wait for a Class III, or even a suppressor?

View Quote

Legal or not legal?

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:41:27 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
They'll do the best they can with a limited budget.

So, every sale will be like getting an SBR or suppressor now: take a year or so.

Just be patient. For the children.

View Quote

Just build 80% firearms

Think of all the paperwork and hassle you will save gov workers.

NICSs could save a good bit of money and man hours of more Americans built 80% firearms.

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:43:17 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Some of you really have no clue as to the process of a 4473.
Not defending it, just stating the facts.
When a background check is performed via computer, there is no information input, in regards
to the firearm or serial number. Rifle or Pistol and that is because of the age requirement.
Once the transfer is "proceed', the FFL puts the pertinent information on the 4473, which
stays with the FFL.

That picture of the boxes is probably FFLs that have forfeited their license,
at which time, those 4473s must be turned over to the ATF.

View Quote

Should be sued for illegally maintaining a firearms database in contravention of federal law.

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:43:35 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here's another real scenario one that happened in PA for a while with our not a database but it's a database for handguns bought in state.

Cops pulls you over. You inform cop you have your gun, LTCF, etc. cop gets interested and runs serial number. Hey, this isn't registered in the state. There were lots of very legal reasons a pistol wouldn't be in the state's database but the cops would take it for evidence or worse. After some lawsuits a lot of that fishing went away.

Now imagine a broken database at the federal level that some local cop is depending on.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
All NFA firearms have been required to be registered since 1934.

As an FFL/SOT I can tell EVERY inspection I have ever received the ATF has had to use my records to fill in the missing gaps for the NFRTR.

EVERY time.

Good luck with trying that on scale several orders of magnitude larger in scope. Not that compliance will ever be the goal stated or otherwise.....

Here's another real scenario one that happened in PA for a while with our not a database but it's a database for handguns bought in state.

Cops pulls you over. You inform cop you have your gun, LTCF, etc. cop gets interested and runs serial number. Hey, this isn't registered in the state. There were lots of very legal reasons a pistol wouldn't be in the state's database but the cops would take it for evidence or worse. After some lawsuits a lot of that fishing went away.

Now imagine a broken database at the federal level that some local cop is depending on.

And that's why I like my ARs, no silly number to confuse anyone with

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:45:43 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

And yet we still have people in GD spouting off silly shit like "80 percent projects are dumb, you're not saving any money"

View Quote

Just dribble from the poors

Some people will never understand

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:46:35 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
Or in my case, not even phones into NICS as I have a CCW. As far as the ATF having the 4473's, spot on. Only FFL's no longer in business for whatever reason.

View Quote

And all FFL's are routinely inspected by BATF compliance inspectors. One of the things they check are the 4473's to see if it was filled out correctly. And the BATF has traced guns to people by using the 4473 forms stored at an FFL. I had one I had sold traced back to me.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-federal-firearms-compliance-inspections-and-revocation-process

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:47:29 PM EDT

[#46]

DROS

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:55:42 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
Just build 80% firearms

Think of all the paperwork and hassle you will save gov workers.

NICSs could save a good bit of money and man hours of more Americans built 80% firearms.

View Quote

Next federal law Democrats will push

80% Lowers - California Law Update

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUtmGVebw3w

Posted: 1/14/2019 4:56:14 PM EDT

[#48]

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Quoted:
And that's why I like my ARs, no silly number to confuse anyone with

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20856/IMG-0747-131026.jpg

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Nice

Posted: 1/14/2019 5:02:05 PM EDT

[#49]

The left's ultimate gun control goal in the future is confiscation and that is what cannot take place with a registry. Ask those in countries like Australia how it worked and in what order. Confiscation can never happen in a state that allows private sales.

This is the real reason they want a registry so fucking bad.

Posted: 1/14/2019 5:04:16 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
They would have to confiscate all of the 4473s from every FFL in the country. If they are going to do that
they might as well confiscate the firearms. Other than the age requirement for a handgun, a 4473 has nothing
to do with "what" you buy, but "can you legally" buy...on that day.

We are way to worried about what the Feds might do and not worried enough about what the states ARE doing.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
But the basis for a searchable record is there. Plus if they pass registration. It isn't rocket science to mandate serial number information during the background due to UBC.

They would have to confiscate all of the 4473s from every FFL in the country. If they are going to do that
they might as well confiscate the firearms. Other than the age requirement for a handgun, a 4473 has nothing
to do with "what" you buy, but "can you legally" buy...on that day.

We are way to worried about what the Feds might do and not worried enough about what the states ARE doing.

You do understand a firearms trace request and how FFLs are required to respond to it, right?

We already have de facto first point of sale registration in this country.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - House Democrats’ Gun Control Unenforceable Without Firearm Registry (Page 2 of 3)

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