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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:23:12 PM EDT
 As thousands of new graduates toss their caps this month, research shows more than 40 percent of master’s degrees aren’t financially worth obtaining, the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity found. Looking at career earnings at graduation and a decade later, while accounting for factors such as dropout rate, the study found that bachelor’s degrees are much more likely to be financially worth it for students than graduate degrees. More than three-quarters, 77 percent, of four-year bachelor degrees have a positive return on investment, the study found, compared to just 57 percent of master’s degrees. https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4659444-nearly-half-of-masters-degrees-have-a-negative-roi/ |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:26:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Echd]
[#1]
I cannot help but imagine a truly tremendous amount of masters nowadays are online only masters from institutions lacking real accreditation or any rigor. It seems that there is a nearly 100% correlation between those who are signing their emails or business cards with their masters and their linkedin showing an online program for snhu or uop or whatever such nonsense.
Those, certainly, would have low or negative RoI. It seems to be a great stunt those institutions have pulled, particularly on low level corporate and government desk riders. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:30:23 PM EDT
[#2]
I paid roughly $50 for my masters. I’m not sure if it’s made a difference yet though.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:30:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CanaryCamaro]
[#3]
Employer paid for mine. I think I was $550 out of pocket for a masters in mfg systems mgmt from SMU.
The degree cost the company ~$40k. I don’t believe I leaned $40k worth of knowledge but whatever. Edited to add that the degree has helped me progress within the company though so my $550 was well worth the investment! |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:33:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CanaryCamaro: Employer paid for mine. I think I was $550 out of pocket for a masters in mfg systems mgmt from SMU. The degree cost the company ~$40k. I don’t believe I leaned $40k worth of knowledge but whatever. Edited to add that the degree has helped me progress within the company though so my $550 was well worth the investment! For 99% of students, its foolish to get a masters until they get hired and can have their emoloyer pay for it - or at least as mush as they cover. Probably few do 100% anymore. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:36:53 PM EDT
[#5]
I have reaped dividends after getting a grad degree. I needed the hours to hit 150 for the CPA license. The material was tax law, something I'm in day after day. It was well worth it in my case.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:37:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Echd: I cannot help but imagine a truly tremendous amount of masters nowadays are online only masters from institutions lacking real accreditation or any rigor. It seems that there is a nearly 100% correlation between those who are signing their emails or business cards with their masters and their linkedin showing an online program for snhu or uop or whatever such nonsense. Those, certainly, would have low or negative RoI. It seems to be a great stunt those institutions have pulled, particularly on low level corporate and government desk riders. I took a online Master's program from a accredited State University and paid around $24k. It helped me secure a promotion at work and opened up some other opportunities. ROI was about 18 months. Obviously there are a number of PO Box University pushing out worthless degrees. However, tere are a number of graduate level programs at well known University for Music Theory, Philosophy, Art, etc... They really don't do much more than a BA, cost $$$$$$, and delay student loan repayment for leftists. I would wager degrees in that area are what sink the stats |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:42:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Echd: I cannot help but imagine a truly tremendous amount of masters nowadays are online only masters from institutions lacking real accreditation or any rigor. It seems that there is a nearly 100% correlation between those who are signing their emails or business cards with their masters and their linkedin showing an online program for snhu or uop or whatever such nonsense. Those, certainly, would have low or negative RoI. It seems to be a great stunt those institutions have pulled, particularly on low level corporate and government desk riders. Admittedly, I only scrolled through the article that was a link or two deep and contained some actual data, but SNHU was singled out as having a high ROI. That being said, my MBA was in person, a joke, and made me a few hundo since work paid for it and I got to keep the $ from selling the books. My real degree is in engineering, and that's where I make my money. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:44:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Lesbian studies only does you good if you are going for a masters in OnlyFans.
Otherwise, learn to |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:53:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Work paid for my BS/MS/MS. They do it because when the bid on gov contracts, they want to show how educated their workforce is. So it really just costs the taxpayers more lmao....
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:57:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By norseman1: Lesbian studies only does you good if you are going for a masters in OnlyFans. Tell me more about this lesbian studies thing. Can I get life experience credits for all the documentaries I've watched? |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:00:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_314: My MA and later graduate certificate have worked out. They involved research, statistics, and the associated programming. And a good bit of how to learn on my own. Tell me more about this lesbian studies thing. Can I get life experience credits for all the documentaries I've watched? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_314: Originally Posted By norseman1: Lesbian studies only does you good if you are going for a masters in OnlyFans. Tell me more about this lesbian studies thing. Can I get life experience credits for all the documentaries I've watched? We don't judge in the GD  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:01:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mkboog]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Echd: I cannot help but imagine a truly tremendous amount of masters nowadays are online only masters from institutions lacking real accreditation or any rigor. It seems that there is a nearly 100% correlation between those who are signing their emails or business cards with their masters and their linkedin showing an online program for snhu or uop or whatever such nonsense. Those, certainly, would have low or negative RoI. It seems to be a great stunt those institutions have pulled, particularly on low level corporate and government desk riders. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:03:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TontoGoldstein]
[#13]
Got mine in ‘79. A degree back then was ridiculously cheap compared to today.
It is an agriculture business degree. It served me wonderfully. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:03:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: For 99% of students, its foolish to get a masters until they get hired and can have their emoloyer pay for it - or at least as mush as they cover. Probably few do 100% anymore. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: Originally Posted By CanaryCamaro: Employer paid for mine. I think I was $550 out of pocket for a masters in mfg systems mgmt from SMU. The degree cost the company ~$40k. I don’t believe I leaned $40k worth of knowledge but whatever. Edited to add that the degree has helped me progress within the company though so my $550 was well worth the investment! For 99% of students, its foolish to get a masters until they get hired and can have their emoloyer pay for it - or at least as mush as they cover. Probably few do 100% anymore. Agreed, 100%. I think the ones that’s are fresh out of college WITH a masters are more worthless and more difficult to work with. Both my wife and I benefited from having employers pay for our higher education. It’s a win-win for the employer and the employee. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:04:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mkboog: I got a MBA and an MIS degree from University of Phoenix when I worked for them in the 2000's. (% free as an employee.) You have little to no knowledge about which you speak. Both had fantastic teachers, with ACTUAL business/working backgrounds. Both degrees have worked out quite well for me and have been relevant to my profession. It has far more to do with "you get what you put into it" regardless of the university. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mkboog: Originally Posted By Echd: I cannot help but imagine a truly tremendous amount of masters nowadays are online only masters from institutions lacking real accreditation or any rigor. It seems that there is a nearly 100% correlation between those who are signing their emails or business cards with their masters and their linkedin showing an online program for snhu or uop or whatever such nonsense. Those, certainly, would have low or negative RoI. It seems to be a great stunt those institutions have pulled, particularly on low level corporate and government desk riders. lol |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:05:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spl1nter_c311: Work paid for my BS/MS/MS. They do it because when the bid on gov contracts, they want to show how educated their workforce is. So it really just costs the taxpayers more lmao.... Exactly. I’m in the DoD sector, you’re correct. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:06:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Josh: lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Josh: Originally Posted By mkboog: Originally Posted By Echd: I cannot help but imagine a truly tremendous amount of masters nowadays are online only masters from institutions lacking real accreditation or any rigor. It seems that there is a nearly 100% correlation between those who are signing their emails or business cards with their masters and their linkedin showing an online program for snhu or uop or whatever such nonsense. Those, certainly, would have low or negative RoI. It seems to be a great stunt those institutions have pulled, particularly on low level corporate and government desk riders. lol lmaoooooo, agreed. |
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VUT
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:06:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Josh: lol  Former University of Phoenix recruiter blows whistle |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:11:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Wife got her masters and subsequent licensure landed her a job just over $60k a year. One year ROI for that. And her current employer pays for 9 credit hours per year…so she’s going to start her doctorate soon. That will bump her pay into the $90k-100k range.
Just gotta be smart about the degree and have an end state in mind. If you’re getting the masters “just because” and it’s not the part of a logical path to an end goal then you’ll end up with a bunch of debt and a fancy diploma on your wall with nothing else to show for it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:13:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Glad I got mine. I know it’s not everyone’s experience but mine has helped me significantly with progression in my career path.
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:15:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Echd]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mkboog: I got a MBA and an MIS degree from University of Phoenix when I worked for them in the 2000's. (% free as an employee.) You have little to no knowledge about which you speak. Both had fantastic teachers, with ACTUAL business/working backgrounds. Both degrees have worked out quite well for me and have been relevant to my profession. It has far more to do with "you get what you put into it" regardless of the university. In both government and private industry any time I see UoP on a linkedin, which I will typically check when anticipating meeting a new person, it is a red flag which is rarely not borne out. Would you have gone there if it wasn't massively discounted? |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:22:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Surprise, surprise. Engineering, computer science, and nursing had some of the highest rates of return. A interesting correlation with degree fields with the highest return on investment for undergrad degrees too.
My last job paid for 2 masters and then I got a fellowship to pay for a most of a PhD. I worked as a GTA to cover the rest of the cost. Maybe $1000 out of pocket. Didn't get a raise or promotion at old job after graduation. That wasn't the only reason, but it was a reason to change jobs. Company wants high degree workers but doesn't want to pay to keep them. Odd. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:38:44 PM EDT
[#23]
who pays their own money for a master's degree?
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:40:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Breedy: I took a online Master's program from a accredited State University and paid around $24k. It helped me secure a promotion at work and opened up some other opportunities. ROI was about 18 months. Obviously there are a number of PO Box University pushing out worthless degrees. However, tere are a number of graduate level programs at well known University for Music Theory, Philosophy, Art, etc... They really don't do much more than a BA, cost $$$$$$, and delay student loan repayment for leftists. I would wager degrees in that area are what sink the stats Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Breedy: Originally Posted By Echd: I cannot help but imagine a truly tremendous amount of masters nowadays are online only masters from institutions lacking real accreditation or any rigor. It seems that there is a nearly 100% correlation between those who are signing their emails or business cards with their masters and their linkedin showing an online program for snhu or uop or whatever such nonsense. Those, certainly, would have low or negative RoI. It seems to be a great stunt those institutions have pulled, particularly on low level corporate and government desk riders. I took a online Master's program from a accredited State University and paid around $24k. It helped me secure a promotion at work and opened up some other opportunities. ROI was about 18 months. Obviously there are a number of PO Box University pushing out worthless degrees. However, tere are a number of graduate level programs at well known University for Music Theory, Philosophy, Art, etc... They really don't do much more than a BA, cost $$$$$$, and delay student loan repayment for leftists. I would wager degrees in that area are what sink the stats People don’t pay for those degrees at legit schools. They knock out their M.S. in Biology, M.A. English, etc. with free tuition and a stipend and serve as a T.A., etc. Same with Ph.D. Even the guy who knocked out his B.S.P.T. In 2010 with a dual AT-C go his M.S. in sports medicine that way. Traditionally, people pay for their M.D., D.D.S., MBA, JD. D.Ed., etc. It’s only the onslaught of education as profit and sketchy programs for vanity degrees that has made this a pay to play thing. |
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MA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:45:16 PM EDT
[#25]
I feel like you should know the incentive to get (or not to get) your masters before you go for one. Same with a bachelor’s for that matter. If it makes sense go for it.
I barely graduated HS and the Marine Corps set me straight. Ended up getting a BS on the GI Bill and a MA on the Post-911 GI Bill. There was a clear financial incentive to get both, for me. Otherwise it would have been a waste of time. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:47:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MikeJGA]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Echd: I cannot help but imagine a truly tremendous amount of masters nowadays are online only masters from institutions lacking real accreditation or any rigor. It seems that there is a nearly 100% correlation between those who are signing their emails or business cards with their masters and their linkedin showing an online program for snhu or uop or whatever such nonsense. Those, certainly, would have low or negative RoI. It seems to be a great stunt those institutions have pulled, particularly on low level corporate and government desk riders. FPNI. I got my Masters of Science in Information Systems Management in 1986 from USC, going to night classes. It paid off biggly. Between 2002 and 2017 when I was doing the hiring, I shit canned resumes from on-line only "colleges". |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:00:58 AM EDT
[#27]
The original article is a better read than The Hill. https://freopp.org/does-college-pay-off-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis-563b9cb6ddc5
No surprise that 'fine arts' degrees are solidly negative any way you slice it. But here's the thing: for people that want to be artists - actors, musicians, etc - you can't get into the field without the education. All it really comes down to is, artists have always been and always will be relatively poor, because that's the economic value of the field. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:03:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: For 99% of students, its foolish to get a masters until they get hired and can have their emoloyer pay for it - or at least as mush as they cover. Probably few do 100% anymore. This and get the employer to agree to a promotion upon completion as well. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:08:25 AM EDT
[#29]
I paid only for books and 25% of tuition for my masters. No student loans. Worked full-time while going to evening class in person. All paid for by tuition assistance from the US Army. Masters to in computer information and resource management.
Paid for it's self with promotions and better job offers in the civilian world. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:14:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SparticleBrane]
[#30]
There's always individual outliers, but overall, STEM fields will usually have the best ROI.
I have a BA in History but work in enterprise IT, so I make pretty decent money. I have absolutely no interest in going back for a graduate degree.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:37:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mercworx]
[#31]
I went to school online at an in state university. Used my GI bill. Think my yearly tuition was like 5-6k. Accredited university and all.
I work in FAANG now in a niche infrastructure related field. My two teammates both have associates degrees. My kids are really young so I’m sure things will be far different in 15 years but I’m going to try my hardest to encourage them to look at alternatives routes. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:40:06 AM EDT
[#32]
The field I went into required a masters degree. I did my masters in conjunction with an internship and it was definitely worth it in my case for the career choice I made. Would not have had the career I had without it and the ROI was all positive.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:40:50 AM EDT
[#33]
MBA from SMU has helped me tremendously. Paid for by my employer.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:42:09 AM EDT
[#34]
I’m betting the original bachelors degrees prior to these masters had a negative ROI too
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:48:48 AM EDT
[#35]
I have a BS degree. I make twice what my brother does who has a PhD and three times what my brother does who has a Masters. This is not the norm of course, just pointing out that more education isn’t always the answer. Career selection is everything. A good friend of mine is an attorney and barely making ends meet. He is an exceptional attorney, but has settled for a lower paying position because of location to his wife’s family.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:07:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryWorked there doing IT for almost 11 years. Most of what they said in that video is complete bullshit. Interesting how the "media" is all bad, until you cherry pick something that fits your argument.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:10:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Beretta_Jerry]
[#37]
My work offered it at no out of pocket with grade requirements. Two years of additional work, but I thought I'd be a fool to pass it up, and I'm grateful for them offering.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:18:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Echd: In both government and private industry any time I see UoP on a linkedin, which I will typically check when anticipating meeting a new person, it is a red flag which is rarely not borne out. Would you have gone there if it wasn't massively discounted? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:39:42 AM EDT
[#39]
I miss the days when post-high school education was meant to round you out as a young adult. It's not supposed to be white collar vocational education. Hell, most businesses train you in the way they do things.
Maybe that's why most college grads such these days. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:42:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ricky_45: I have reaped dividends after getting a grad degree. I needed the hours to hit 150 for the CPA license. The material was tax law, something I'm in day after day. It was well worth it in my case. This is the way it should be judged, case by case. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 2:55:36 AM EDT
[#41]
It all depends on the field. Several, if not most, licensed professions have gone to making a master's essentially a requirement for licensing. You don't become a Doctor, Lawyer, or even a CPA without a Masters anymore - abet I did hear of a push to open that up for Lawyers, but I doubt they will let it happen. They are effectively union jobs (American Medical Association, American Institute for Certified Accountants, not sure of the one for Lawyers) - and one of the purpose of the "union" is to limit entry into the profession to maintain income levels for those who are already in it.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:41:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: It all depends on the field. Several, if not most, licensed professions have gone to making a master's essentially a requirement for licensing. You don't become a Doctor, Lawyer, or even a CPA without a Masters anymore - abet I did hear of a push to open that up for Lawyers, but I doubt they will let it happen. We must run in different circles. Most physicians and lawyers I know don't have master degrees, only the MD or JD beyond their undergraduate degree. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:08:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mousehunter]
[#43]
Ok, I concede on the technicality. I guess I don't give Lawyers that much respect - it is a 2 year post graduate program. Most 2 year post grad programs are called Masters, but Lawyers get special initials.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:18:18 AM EDT
[#44]
There is no fraud. If they sell something and you buy it. They told you up front what you were getting, on you if you don't know what that is worth in the market place. Kinda common sense a graduate degree in some thing trivial from a institution you never heard of is not going to earn you any bank. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:28:53 AM EDT
[#45]
My employer paid for mine and I actually ended up turning a $1,000 profit.
Should have sold my textbooks too. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:34:39 AM EDT
[#46]
A number of friends got their masters in wildlife management/biology and worked for Texas Parks and Wildlife and retired with 20 years service ( no longer an option) and then went to work in the private sector and came out way ahead over time.
On the other hand I know someone that got a PhD in nursing tne he complains all the time I make more than he does. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:02:39 AM EDT
[#47]
I was paid to go get my MBA with the GI bill. It was the best second job I could get at the time. It helped me receive jobs in operations and logistics. I earned my undergrad while in the military, cost me ~$1100 in tuition and books.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:18:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Teacher here. Any masters degree will advance you on the salary schedule. Without it, you cap out well below the max possible, even with years of experience. Got my MA in history at my undergrad university because I wanted to learn more cool and interesting stuff rather than going the boring ass MEd. route that everyone seems to get through diploma mills.
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NH, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:33:33 AM EDT
[#49]
I'm a teacher, so my pay automatically went up when I got mine. Otherwise I wouldn't have spent the money. An MFA is Poetry isn't super lucrative.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:37:48 AM EDT
[#50]
So we're saying it's only a negative ROI if you don't get someone else to pay for it.
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