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Posted: 9/6/2020 11:21:39 PM EDT
[#1]
I just finished researching this topic.
Basically two main companies to look at are Ultra Aire and Aprilaire. I have one of each brand. A small Ultra Aire in my in my gun room and an Aprilaire ducted into HVAC. |
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Posted: 9/6/2020 11:39:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Live in a super tight house and have Aprilaire.
It’s a fresh air system and is designed not to add humidity. It cuts out at 60% humidity. We had a humidity issue. Low Freon charge- it had been undercharged on installation. I would check that first. |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 12:31:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Live in a super tight house and have Aprilaire. It's a fresh air system and is designed not to add humidity. It cuts out at 60% humidity. We had a humidity issue. Low Freon charge- it had been undercharged on installation. I would check that first. So your system doesn't dehumidify unless the humidity is above 60%? Is that something you can set or just the way it works? I don't think it's an issue with my HVAC because when it DOES run the humidity drops. It just doesn't run a lot unless we're opening a lot of doors or the outside temp gets into the upper 80s. |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 12:33:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just finished researching this topic. Basically two main companies to look at are Ultra Aire and Aprilaire. I have one of each brand. A small Ultra Aire in my in my gun room and an Aprilaire ducted into HVAC. |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 6:52:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Sounds like your system is oversized.
Stand alone dehumidifiers work well but don’t seem to last more than a couple years. The Aprilaire unit seems to be the way to go. I’m considering one for my basement. It’s not very humid normally but after a rain or cooler outside summer temps the humidity creeps up a little. Currently using a portable dehumidifier and it has been working fine but would like to have a standalone system eventually. |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 7:13:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Your system may be oversized, if it was installed before you had all that insulation added to your home.
Even then, you may still want to have a whole home dehumidifier installed. If the temperature inside your home isn't allowing the ac to run enough you should look into it. |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 7:38:40 AM EDT
[#7]
My deloungh $500 workshop stand alone dehumidifier has a built in discharge pump.
It has a built in 1gallon removable container with a automatic vertical discharge pump. The discharge hose is routed through the wall blower vent to outside, it's a 6ft lift. The manufacturer is deloungh (spelling) I also looked at a Honeywell with the same features. My previous dehumidifier I added on a separate " Automatic dehumidifier sump pump" it's sold at any box store. Over view for built in pump. https://thedehumidifierexperts.com/best-built-in-pump/ |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 7:48:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the info - I've heard of Aprilaire and will be looking into what they offer. Is the Ultra Aire a standalone system? I have a gun room as well and humidity in there is my primary concern - I've considered just getting a standalone for that room and dealing with the whole house later. How does your system handle the water output? Do you have a drain attached to it? It is an Ultra Aire MD33 and is an in the wall unit. It is designed for apartments and condos but I wanted a real solution vs having one sitting in the corner. When the house was being built I knew I wanted that humidifier there so I ran electric and a drain in the wall. It must be drained and does not have a holding tank...you don’t want that style for long term use anyway. They are expensive but it is a true set it and forget it solution. To me it was worth it. I have it set to 50% RH and it does a good job keeping it between 45-55% which is the acceptable range of a gun room.  Attached FileI installed a switch on the side so I can force the unit off for when I’m reloading with a sensitive scale. Even the slightest air movement can throw off my scale.  Attached FileWhole house is an Aprilaire 1850. It’s plumbed directly into HVAC and keeps the whole house humidity in check.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 8:19:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your system may be oversized, if it was installed before you had all that insulation added to your home. Even then, you may still want to have a whole home dehumidifier installed. If the temperature inside your home isn't allowing the ac to run enough you should look into it. This, your system sound oversized abd is short cycling and 56-60% is high. Great humidity for mold... |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 8:42:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Agree with the oversized comments, that's why we only install staged or modulating equipment in super tight homes. If the house is indeed that tight, I would probably suggest an air exchanger over a dehumidifier, and use the existing air conditioning to dehumidify the incoming air. But that would only work if the equipment isn't oversized.
Hard to know any of this without being there and seeing the house and its systems. Also would need to blower door test to determine how tight the house really is. |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 8:43:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Be sure you're not creating a negative pressure in living space, and check blower speed.
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Posted: 9/7/2020 8:47:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agree with the oversized comments, that's why we only install staged or modulating equipment in super tight homes. If the house is indeed that tight, I would probably suggest an air exchanger over a dehumidifier, and use the existing air conditioning to dehumidify the incoming air. But that would only work if the equipment isn't oversized. Hard to know any of this without being there and seeing the house and its systems. Also would need to blower door test to determine how tight the house really is. LOVE me some mods 
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Posted: 9/7/2020 10:50:44 AM EDT
[#13]
Great feedback everyone - thank you for your comments. @-Obsessed- do you have a single unit for your home or two? I ask because I have two and wonder how the Aprilaire system would integrate into the ductwork in a two unit system.
We've never had a blower door test done. I assume that like pretty much everything else, costs for having that done vary regionally, but would still be interested in your experience with cost in your areas. |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 10:54:15 AM EDT
[#14]
I have a single unit. We have a Lennox PureAir and because of this we leave the blower on 24/7 to pass the air through the purifier so the house does a decent job of not having any hot or cold spots.
I installed both units myself so can’t share details on install costs. It’s a straightforward task. |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 6:28:57 PM EDT
[#15]
LOL at all the people that haven't got a clue saying it's oversized. Seriously, you have zero idea what his heating & cooling loads are, nor do you know the size, type, or operating duty-cycle of his system and you think you can make the conclusion that his system is oversized? ROFL. There is approximately half of the country that sizes systems on the heating load bc that is the larger demand. Is he supposed to undersize his system and install a 2nd system that he only uses in the winter to meet demand for heat?
Quote HistoryQuoted: check blower speed. This! Check your blower speed, especially if you have a multi-speed blower. I asked this same question a little over a year ago. Everybody said, "your system is oversized". B.S. my system runs 24/7 in the winter when temps get below 20. It's sized for winter loads. I discovered that my system has a "dehumidify" setting that wasn't turned on. The dehumify setting slows the blower during cooling mode to lower coil temperature which removes more humidity. Ironically, the smarty-pants guys here told me not to use the dehumidify setting bc too cold of coil could damage the unit (which is true) but my HVAC buddy said it won't hurt a thing to turn it on. I did, and instant 10% humidity drop. Dropping your fan speed will do the same but don't get outside the recommended blower speed for your system (mine has a chart of acceptable blower speeds in the svc & installation manual). |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 10:29:26 AM EDT
[#16]
My furnace fan control was glitching out this spring, sometimes id get good cooling, sometimes not. My return air is sufficient and my unit sized appropriately.
One day was particularly hot and my lines were dripping condensate and the evaporator coil ductwork was sweating enough to pool water ( meaning frozen up). So at that point it was either a low charge or my fan. I was down there actually to check my blower speed and at this point determined it was the fan control board going out. EZ fix. |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 11:26:54 AM EDT
[#17]
nm.
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Posted: 9/9/2020 11:29:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All that but...? Is there a point? Point to what? What are you saying? |
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Posted: 9/22/2020 1:09:25 PM EDT
[#19]
I've contacted my builder who is in turn contacting the HVAC contractor for further discussion. What questions should I be asking to determine if this is a design issue? I'm not interested in dropping potentially thousands of dollars on dehumidification equipment if this is caused by improper sizing/installation. I understand that there should have been a Manual J calculation done that would set the foundation for the system design - is this a "rule" in HVAC or just a good idea? If there was no Manual J done and as a result, the system is sized incorrectly, would that be a liability for the contractor? To my knowledge there was also no blower door test done - is that another area where the contractor could be liable for an improperly functioning system?
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Posted: 9/29/2020 9:19:21 AM EDT
[#20]
I heard back from the HVAC contractor with what I consider to be a "non-answer". Apparently, multiple people have been reporting high humidity over the summer, and he said "they've been using dehumidifiers". Am I out of line for thinking that a properly designed HVAC system shouldn't require additional dehumidiication?
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Posted: 9/29/2020 9:43:18 AM EDT
[#21]
In my opinion (I'm not an HVAC expert) the system should be designed/sized to keep the house warm and cool.
They sell humidifiers for a reason. They sell dehumidifiers for a reason. You can buy either as standalone units for a room or zone, or you can buy whole house options. My house has a whole home humidifier and a whole home dehumidifier. |
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Posted: 9/29/2020 1:49:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my opinion (I'm not an HVAC expert) the system should be designed/sized to keep the house warm and cool. They sell humidifiers for a reason. They sell dehumidifiers for a reason. You can buy either as standalone units for a room or zone, or you can buy whole house options. My house has a whole home humidifier and a whole home dehumidifier. |
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Posted: 10/1/2020 4:33:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Residential systems are oversized in the 'shoulder' season.
The system is sized for the 'worst case' days (usually 97% or so). This leaves you with just a few hours every year that the system will not be large enough to hold desired set points. Newer systems that have ways of reducing system capacity help with this a lot. Having a TXV (thermostatic expansion valve) helps some also. |
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Posted: 10/4/2020 6:40:49 AM EDT
[#24]
I’m assuming it’s a new house.
Ask the hvac company for a copy of the manual J and see if they can provide one. Contact the permit office and see what energy & mechanical codes the Hiuse was built and required to adhere to. Once you have verified they did or didn’t follow the codes proceed accordingly. As far as answering the question about properly installed not needing a dehumidifier not necessarily. My system is installed and sized correctly, blower door, etc and I still need a whole house dehumidifier in the summer and a humidifier in the winter. I even switched to a 2 stage zoned system for the main floor/ basement vs separate equipment for each floor, installed transverse air to move all the main floor air through the basement on the way back to the equipment and I still need to humidify/dehumidify. |
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Posted: 10/4/2020 10:57:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Try slowing the airspeed. pull the panel and move the motor wires from Medium to Low and see if that helps
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Posted: 10/4/2020 2:31:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Cold and high humidity is what you
get when the system is oversized. And that is about anytime it is running since 'worst case' hours do not happen all that much. And that is what the system is designed to. We had a large lab at work once that out facilities group put in a cheap system. Most of the time it was cold and damp. Without adequate metering and easy adjustment of capacity. With a full U-2 SIGINT system in the lab it was cool and dry. Any other time it was cold and damp. They actually fired the guy that did it since he repeated his lousy design in lab after lab. |
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Posted: 10/4/2020 9:22:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Decrease fan speed. Set fan to auto instead of on. Some thermostats can be set to lag a bit so that you can get increased run times. These will help some.
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Posted: 10/5/2020 12:03:12 AM EDT
[#28]
I'll check on the fan speed and see where we are. I do have my thermostats set to circulate even when not cooling (was an option in setup) so air keeps moving, but if the compressor isn't kicking on I'm assuming that will keep it from getting stuffy from stale air but isn't likely to help humidity much.
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Posted: 10/5/2020 7:19:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do have my thermostats set to circulate even when not cooling (was an option in setup) so air keeps moving, but if the compressor isn't kicking on I'm assuming that will keep it from getting stuffy from stale air but isn't likely to help humidity much. That is actually counter productive to reducing humidity. At the end if a cooling cycle your evaporator coil is still very wet. Blowing air through it re-evaporates that moisture back into your air. |
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Posted: 10/5/2020 9:46:06 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is actually counter productive to reducing humidity. At the end if a cooling cycle your evaporator coil is still very wet. Blowing air through it re-evaporates that moisture back into your air. |
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Posted: 10/22/2020 8:44:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've contacted my builder who is in turn contacting the HVAC contractor for further discussion. What questions should I be asking to determine if this is a design issue? I'm not interested in dropping potentially thousands of dollars on dehumidification equipment if this is caused by improper sizing/installation. I understand that there should have been a Manual J calculation done that would set the foundation for the system design - is this a "rule" in HVAC or just a good idea? If there was no Manual J done and as a result, the system is sized incorrectly, would that be a liability for the contractor? To my knowledge there was also no blower door test done - is that another area where the contractor could be liable for an improperly functioning system? Doing a Manual J is the norm. But it may not be the basis for legal action. First verify the system was properly charged. Most builders do not add the required amount of freon to the new systems. The systems are shipped with about 80% of the required charge because the manufacturer does not know how many feet of line set are in your house. Most builders skip the add required freon step. If the system is charged correctly, check air flow. Too much airflow will increase the humidity in the home. The blower speed can be adjusted from 400 CFM/ton (for the desert) down to 325 CFM/ton (for high humidity areas likes Fla and Houston). If that does not correct the problem, you should do the manual J. The best system to buy is a 2 stage compressor with variable speed blower. Saves the most energy and dehumidifies the home better than a single stage unit with the add on dehumidifiers. |
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Posted: 10/23/2020 1:14:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Real humidity control is not inexpensive.
You set up the cooling side so it can run year round. Then heat and humidify the air. It change the controls and increases the running cost. The 'trick' to these systems is you now need a way to meter refrigerant into the evaporator. No matter the temp and humidity. More than just an orifice or TXV valve. Typical residential systems use the liquid line as storage for refrigerant. Commercial systems have an actual tank to hold refrigerant. |
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