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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:07:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:11:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Xi said be ready by 2027. Not in 2027. Everything between now and 27 would fit that requirement. I'm not sure what the details of the air defense are, but how can we not deploy patriot and thaad faster than that? |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:14:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd341: Xi said be ready by 2027. Not in 2027. Everything between now and 27 would fit that requirement. I'm not sure what the details of the air defense are, but how can we not deploy patriot and thaad faster than that? We have both Navy and Army air defenses but there’s a couple issues, I was under the impression those issues were being already addressed, apparently not successfully |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:15:28 AM EDT
[#3]
Why can't we be ready sooner? Rainbow flags on backorder?
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:17:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Should have been up years ago.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:19:55 AM EDT
[#5]
If they go any faster they'll tip the island over!
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SC, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:20:29 AM EDT
[#6]
The fact that the politicians and brass discuss war with China as a foregone conclusion should enrage the American populace.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:21:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: We have both Navy and Army air defenses but there's a couple issues, I was under the impression those issues were being already addressed, apparently not successfully Takes parts of patriot, Aegis and maybe Thaad along with "indirect fire defense"....meaning something like iron dome or lasers or CIWS? Places them all under a new battle management system being built by Northrop...all bespoke to Guam. For fucks sake. In 20 years it'll be amazing, in New Mexico, because Guam will be a lagoon. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:24:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd341: Xi said be ready by 2027. Not in 2027. Everything between now and 27 would fit that requirement. I'm not sure what the details of the air defense are, but how can we not deploy patriot and thaad faster than that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd341: Xi said be ready by 2027. Not in 2027. Everything between now and 27 would fit that requirement. I'm not sure what the details of the air defense are, but how can we not deploy patriot and thaad faster than that? Probably numbers and existing commitments. As I understand it Patriot is one of the most heavily committed assets in the Army in terms of units deployed at any given time vs. units available. Building them fast in the short term is not feasible because we have not funded the program at a level that supports industry building that capacity. Even if we had the hardware, manning the batteries is going to be a problem with the present recruiting situation. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:28:13 AM EDT
[#9]
I think this is more budget posturing then anything. The solution has changed a bit too.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/10/missile-defense-agency-provides-new-details-on-defense-of-guam/ https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47643 THAAD and patriot is already there. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/466723/thaad-battery-guam-successfully-completes-table-viii-evaluatio https://www.defensenews.com/smr/defending-the-pacific/2023/03/17/first-wave-of-tech-to-defend-guam-from-newer-threats-due-in-2024/ Not sure what the timing is for getting more batteries and LTAMDS in though. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:29:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steve_n_houston: Why can't we be ready sooner? Rainbow flags on backorder? https://www.defensenews.com/outlook/2023/12/04/us-faces-hurdles-next-year-for-guams-missile-defense-experts-warn/  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:30:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fssf158: Probably numbers and existing commitments. As I understand it Patriot is one of the most heavily committed assets in the Army in terms of units deployed at any given time vs. units available. Building them fast in the short term is not feasible because we have not funded the program at a level that supports industry building that capacity. Even if we had the hardware, manning the batteries is going to be a problem with the present recruiting situation. The thing that gets me is prioritization. In a big hot war most of the bullshit DoD loves goes away. We eventually focus on fighting the war. Most Joe's would rather serve in a mil that is on war footing because of that reason. Yet when we have the chance to prevent a war by being aggressive enough early enough, the bullshit sucks up the resources we need to pull it off. It's very strange. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:35:29 AM EDT
[#12]
Found the problem.
 Attached FileClearly the more inclusive radar will take way longer to be fabulous. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:35:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DC2FA5: The fact that the politicians and brass discuss war with China as a foregone conclusion should enrage the American populace. Barring societal collapse in China, it's been one for over 25 years. A significant portion of our populace has just chosen to ignore that. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:38:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd341: That is certainly the trend. The thing that gets me is prioritization. In a big hot war most of the bullshit DoD loves goes away. We eventually focus on fighting the war. Most Joe's would rather serve in a mil that is on war footing because of that reason. Yet when we have the chance to prevent a war by being aggressive enough early enough, the bullshit sucks up the resources we need to pull it off. It's very strange. Apparently we’re giving up on even 1.4 per year https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Biden-angers-Congress-after-submitting-defense-budget-cutting-Navy-submarines/5-2712675/? |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:53:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DC2FA5: The fact that the politicians and brass discuss war with China as a foregone conclusion should enrage the American populace. That's not going to be by our choice, we can not allow the chicoms to successfully invade Taiwan. Every aspect of modern civilization relies on microchips. We can't allow the chicoms to control the bulk of the world's production. Up to, and including nuclear war if necessary. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:10:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steve_n_houston: Why can't we be ready sooner? Rainbow flags on backorder? Needed staff is on maternity leave. When he gets back we may still have time unless he gets preggers again. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:12:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colklink: That's not going to be by our choice, we can not allow the chicoms to successfully invade Taiwan. Every aspect of modern civilization relies on microchips. We can't allow the chicoms to control the bulk of the world's production. Up to, and including nuclear war if necessary. Well, I'm sure Intel, Nvidia, AMD etc can build and staff chip plants outside of East China a lot faster and alot cheaper than DOD can do air defense. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:12:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Don't worry. I've been personally assured we will never need anything we gave away in Ukraine in a conflict against China.
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MP, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:12:47 AM EDT
[#19]
There is no way that this is a problem.
I've been told that Russia is THE threat and we need to give them everything they need. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:15:01 AM EDT
[#20]
They should ask Hank Johnson for some tips.
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ND, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:19:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bayouhazard: They should ask Hank Johnson for some tips. I suspect for reasons he does not tip. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:11:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: Well, I'm sure Intel, Nvidia, AMD etc can build and staff chip plants outside of East China a lot faster and alot cheaper than DOD can do air defense. Doubt it, intel announced a billion $ new chip factory in Ohio like 3 years ago, they just now started moving equipment. It will probably not be producing for another 3 or 4 years. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:24:59 AM EDT
[#23]
They should just capsize and scuttle Guam if China tries to invade.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:28:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: They should just capsize and scuttle Guam if China tries to invade. Defeatist thinking. Two years is plenty of time to float it back here and tie it up off the coast of Oregon. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:30:05 AM EDT
[#25]
Aquilino must have stock in air defense contractors…
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:57:23 AM EDT
[#26]
As planned, no doubt. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:10:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: Well, I'm sure Intel, Nvidia, AMD etc can build and staff chip plants outside of East China a lot faster and alot cheaper than DOD can do air defense. Read the latest articles on that |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:12:12 AM EDT
[#28]
The fact that the arms industries havent been ramped up to a war time footing starting in Feb 2022 is simply idiotic. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:27:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: The fact that the arms industries havent been ramped up to a war time footing starting in Feb 2022 is simply idiotic. Biden +3% 2024 DOD budget is now down to 0% and 2025 was supposed to be +1% neither the 2024 or 2025 would cover inflation but now due to continual CRs the budget for not all but many of the programs is falling into the negative, if Congress even comes to a vote to pass tomorrow, which it may not. Defense companies probably see the tea leaves as not warranting doing more than minimums until the wind changes which for the purposes of this article means a day late and a dollar short. These platforms and systems - F35s, aircraft carrier, nuke subs, air defense are pricey and complicated with lots of delays even know Biden White House is rolling submarine building down to 1 and giving up on bothering to stick to 2 at a time the Navy’s attack subs are dropping down to 48 instead of the 62 requirement so the Aussies are having a panic attack |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:06:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Want to know a little secret to winning a war with China, tell your wife to quit shopping at Costco, Walmart and Target.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:15:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: I think this is more budget posturing then anything. The solution has changed a bit too. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/10/missile-defense-agency-provides-new-details-on-defense-of-guam/ https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47643 THAAD and patriot is already there. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/466723/thaad-battery-guam-successfully-completes-table-viii-evaluatio https://www.defensenews.com/smr/defending-the-pacific/2023/03/17/first-wave-of-tech-to-defend-guam-from-newer-threats-due-in-2024/ Not sure what the timing is for getting more batteries and LTAMDS in though. I’m sure Guam would be utterly saturated with missiles. That is a problem with our logistics in trying to exert strength across the word. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:22:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirkericPitt: Doubt it, intel announced a billion $ new chip factory in Ohio like 3 years ago, they just now started moving equipment. It will probably not be producing for another 3 or 4 years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirkericPitt: Originally Posted By couchlord: Well, I'm sure Intel, Nvidia, AMD etc can build and staff chip plants outside of East China a lot faster and alot cheaper than DOD can do air defense. Doubt it, intel announced a billion $ new chip factory in Ohio like 3 years ago, they just now started moving equipment. It will probably not be producing for another 3 or 4 years. And you think DOD can beat that schedule? |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:24:32 PM EDT
[#33]
I am guessing it will take so long to "be ready" because of DEI and other social justice bullshit training is a higher priority?
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ND, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:25:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Read the latest articles on that Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By couchlord: Well, I'm sure Intel, Nvidia, AMD etc can build and staff chip plants outside of East China a lot faster and alot cheaper than DOD can do air defense. Read the latest articles on that Articles on chip plants or articles on DOD procurement? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:26:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DC2FA5: The fact that the politicians and brass discuss war with China as a foregone conclusion should enrage the American populace. I think we need to be realistic and acknowledge the fact that both Russia and China consider us to be their primary adversary and consider themselves already in a Hybrid war with us. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:26:42 PM EDT
[#36]
They must have watched this video.
  Could THAAD & Patriot Defend Guam From 200 Chinese DF-26 Ballistic Missiles? (WarGames 205) | DCS DCS milsim - Today we simulate seven US THAAD missile batteries and seven Patriot Pac-3 missile batteries defending Guam island from a huge strike from China involving 200 DF-26 hypersonic ballistic missiles. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:33:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Losing is all part of the plan.
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USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:44:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Don't worry. I've been personally assured we will never need anything we gave away in Ukraine in a conflict against China. How many THAADS have we given to Ukraine? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:47:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Underscore_O_Three: There is no way that this is a problem. I've been told that Russia is THE threat and we need to give them everything they need. I know it’s hard for some folks to comprehend, but we aren’t in a bipolar world and there are multiple threats. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:49:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Don't worry. I've been personally assured we will never need anything we gave away in Ukraine in a conflict against China.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:52:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thor_ducati: Found the problem. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67413/IMG_1344_jpeg-3165113.JPG Clearly the more inclusive radar will take way longer to be fabulous. That's not what "discrimination" means in a missile defense context. Most newer systems employ countermeasures, so your sensor / detection systems need to be able to discriminate between the decoys and the lethal object. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:54:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Southernman077: Losing is all part of the plan. I suspect this is true. Every move Biden has made since being installed in the Whitehouse has been to weaken America. I think he is positioning us to be engaged in a couple wars simultaneously, and get our asses handed to us. I would bet the Pentagon is 100% behind the plan, as is the CIA and FBI. Not one American general officer resigned in protest after the cluster fuck that was the afghan withdrawal. That tells me everything I need to know. |
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ISR
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:55:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Are they backlogged on DEI instructors and LGBT CBTs or something?
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:56:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: Articles on chip plants or articles on DOD procurement? There was an overlap but also now a new Biden announcement so I gotta read that too. Basically just type intel in a search engine for news and check a week ago into this morning - bunch of em now that I haven’t finished as I had to finish my Ghostbusters ticket buy and post office during lunch |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 1:12:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: That's not what "discrimination" means in a missile defense context. Most newer systems employ countermeasures, so your sensor / detection systems need to be able to discriminate between the decoys and the lethal object. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: Originally Posted By thor_ducati: Found the problem. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67413/IMG_1344_jpeg-3165113.JPG Clearly the more inclusive radar will take way longer to be fabulous. That's not what "discrimination" means in a missile defense context. Most newer systems employ countermeasures, so your sensor / detection systems need to be able to discriminate between the decoys and the lethal object.  |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 1:21:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: callgood]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The-White-Dog: Barring societal collapse in China, it's been one for over 25 years. A significant portion of our populace has just chosen to ignore that.  Gordon Chang has been predicting China's demise since 2001. Attached FileDo our ballistic missile submarines still work? Turn China into glass. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:32:37 PM EDT
[#47]
These are the same idiots that couldn't forecast:
- Saddam's invasion of Kuwait - 9/11 attack on NYC - Russia's invasion of Ukraine - Hamas attack on Israel... Now they want us to be scared because may be prepared to attack, three years from now? 
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:36:41 PM EDT
[#48]
oh that is just great. THanks Dark Brandon
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:42:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: daemon734]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: How many THAADS have we given to Ukraine? None, but we're very specifically trying to fill Patriot batteries and SHORAD there as well...so try not to deliberately leave those out. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:47:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DC2FA5: The fact that the politicians and brass discuss war with China as a foregone conclusion should enrage the American populace. |
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