Going to do some 9mm ammo tests, brand new SD round - part two video up

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Going to do some 9mm ammo tests, brand new SD round - part two video up (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 6/8/2019 4:59:22 AM EDT

Ever heard of Seismic? I had never heard of them until a friend mentioned them on FB to me several days ago and showed some promotional materials. I said "interesting, too expensive" at $28 for 21. The premise is slow and heavy, (sound familiar?), and momentum being the key to stopping power. Brass is odd, two piece alloy and aluminum red anodized base, (supposedly reloadable with special dies), 185 grain bullet traveling at a claimed 975 FPS. Sounds like a 45 ACP jammed into a 9mm case. Well, I am a skeptic, and said, so out of the blue the company SENT ME SOME TO TRY. A few boxes came in via BBT, video and chrono to follow, but nobody local to source for gelatin, dagnabbit. I have some people in the firearms/police supply industry coming to help on a nice private range, hopefully with some different firearms, maybe a suppressor, (the box says ideal for suppressors), my old Chrony, and a P-10C/P-10S to see what we can see. The round is called the Quakemaker. Yes.
Well, I don't know the company, know dadgum little about the round, but if they are willing to provide the materials for a test video, I will do the best I can. Says something good about the outfit, I think.

Sorry, no pics right now, but I will try to compare it to some other loads, like my Hornaday Critical Duty carry ammo, maybe some Golden Sabres, etc., we'll see. Gonna get this ball rolling early next week. Editing the video will take a while, if everything goes right, will try to make it enjoyable as well as informative.
Is this something you guys here would be interested in watching? I'm no Hickock45, by any means.

Posted: 6/8/2019 5:36:46 AM EDT

[#1]

The good news is, it doesn’t matter what the bullet weighs nor how fast/slow it’s going...as long as it’s 9mm.

Posted: 6/8/2019 5:43:06 AM EDT

[#2]

I never get ammo randomly sent to me

Posted: 6/8/2019 5:48:11 AM EDT

[#3]

Saw them when they first came out. IIRC the composite case was because of how little room the massive bullet left in the case once seated. 9mm already has limited case capacity as is. Cramming a 185 grain bullet in there certainly doesn't help matters.

Seem somewhat gimmicky to me, given the cost. I'm sure they'll sound great suppressed, though I don't know if I'd venture using one in a rifle length barrel due to their enormous bearing surface and the limited amount of powder they'll be able to cram in there.

From TTAG, where I believe is the place I first saw them:

Posted: 6/8/2019 6:00:10 AM EDT

[#4]

That does look like bullets in the package. You know more than I did!

Yeah, i don't normally get random ammo shipped to me either, which is why I guess I'll try to do something fun with it.

Posted: 6/8/2019 6:09:35 AM EDT

[#5]

I don't know, it does not look like it would expand reliably at that speed. I can appreciate the idea of a deep-penetrator round, especially for suppressed guns -- but I just see this acting like ball ammo. I say it just passes right through the intended target and keeps on going. It certainly wont "dump" all that energy into the target -- like many proven 9mm LE rounds do every day now.

Also, the bullet seems to set-back into the case too deep; that will probably generate +P+ pressures. With a heavy, heavy bullet, then add +P+ pressures, you might be looking at trouble.

Posted: 6/8/2019 6:12:03 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
That does look like bullets in the package. You know more than I did!

Yeah, i don't normally get random ammo shipped to me either, which is why I guess I'll try to do something fun with it.

View Quote

I'm curious how they sound suppressed. Before running it through a can make sure your targets aren't showing any signs of unstable flight. Keyholes will jump out at you, but even slightly oblong holes are a bad sign too. Not likely to happen, but best to double check.

I just don't see why I wouldn't just run with 147 HPs or if I wanted really quiet the 158 grain FMJs that a few places sell.

Posted: 6/8/2019 6:18:08 AM EDT

[#7]

My first thought was "case separation".

Posted: 6/8/2019 6:22:53 AM EDT

[#8]

Anyone seen Stan Bulmer lately?

Posted: 6/8/2019 7:17:49 AM EDT

[#9]

Who?

BTW, I won't be running anything through my 'can - I don't have one.

But I will bring that up if one of the other fellows does bring a suppressor, thanks for the warning.
Edit to add, wonder what recoil is going to be like in compact/subcompact pistols...

Posted: 6/8/2019 9:14:32 AM EDT

[#10]

Gimmicky ammo is gimmicky.

Posted: 6/8/2019 9:20:41 AM EDT

[#11]

If you want 185gr you need 45ACP.

Posted: 6/8/2019 9:24:20 AM EDT

[#12]

Hard pass.

Posted: 6/8/2019 9:46:05 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hard pass.

View Quote

Same

Gold Dot, HST, or Critical Duty.

Posted: 6/8/2019 10:03:32 AM EDT

[#14]

My carry ammo is 135gr Critical Duty, not likely to change. But, they gave me the stuff to try, so I will.

Attached File

Posted: 6/8/2019 10:05:41 AM EDT

[#15]

Even the proven stuff was the new kid on the block at one time, time will tell with this kid. Good luck testing Armoredman.

Posted: 6/8/2019 10:07:57 AM EDT

[#16]

“Shellshock” cases sound pretty gimmicky.

Posted: 6/8/2019 10:10:08 AM EDT

[#17]

Interesting. Seems a lot of ways that stuff could go sideways, figuratively and literally but I'd be interested to see what your results are with it. Good luck and be safe!

Posted: 6/8/2019 10:12:22 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Even the proven stuff was the new kid on the block at one time, time will tell with this kid. Good luck testing Armoredman.

View Quote

I have my doubts, but what the heck I'm in. I already have a stockpile of HST I will hopefully never go through.

Posted: 6/8/2019 10:16:12 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Ever heard of Seismic? I had never heard of them until a friend mentioned them on FB to me several days ago and showed some promotional materials. I said "interesting, too expensive" at $28 for 21. The premise is slow and heavy, (sound familiar?), and momentum being the key to stopping power. Brass is odd, two piece alloy and aluminum red anodized base, (supposedly reloadable with special dies), 185 grain bullet traveling at a claimed 975 FPS. Sounds like a 45 ACP jammed into a 9mm case. Well, I am a skeptic, and said, so out of the blue the company SENT ME SOME TO TRY. A few boxes came in via BBT, video and chrono to follow, but nobody local to source for gelatin, dagnabbit. I have some people in the firearms/police supply industry coming to help on a nice private range, hopefully with some different firearms, maybe a suppressor, (the box says ideal for suppressors), my old Chrony, and a P-10C/P-10S to see what we can see. The round is called the Quakemaker. Yes.
Well, I don't know the company, know dadgum little about the round, but if they are willing to provide the materials for a test video, I will do the best I can. Says something good about the outfit, I think.

Sorry, no pics right now, but I will try to compare it to some other loads, like my Hornaday Critical Duty carry ammo, maybe some Golden Sabres, etc., we'll see. Gonna get this ball rolling early next week. Editing the video will take a while, if everything goes right, will try to make it enjoyable as well as informative.
Is this something you guys here would be interested in watching? I'm no Hickock45, by any means.

View Quote

Maybe you could just test it against a wall of text ...

Okay, just slapping you around a little. Yes, we'd like to see what you come up with.

Posted: 6/8/2019 10:20:12 AM EDT

[#20]

This guys have done some of the best head to head tests out there, of self defense ammo, out of realistic barrel lengths, through clothing.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

I don't understand the premise of this new ammo. The best 9mm hollow points penetrate plenty (16"), while expanding reasonably well. The downside of 9mm (compared to .40 or .45) is that it doesn't expand as big, making a smaller permanent cavity. So this new ammo will penetrate even deeper than 16"? What practical use is that?

Posted: 6/8/2019 10:47:53 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted: This guys have done some of the best head to head tests out there, of self defense ammo, out of realistic barrel lengths, through clothing.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

I don't understand the premise of this new ammo. The best 9mm hollow points penetrate plenty (16"), while expanding reasonably well. The downside of 9mm (compared to .40 or .45) is that it doesn't expand as big, making a smaller permanent cavity. So this new ammo will penetrate even deeper than 16"? What practical use is that?

View Quote

All else being equal, more penetration is better for everyone but police departments. For a pistol bullet, you'd always rather make a through hole than a blind one. There's plenty of meat in this bullet to expand larger than typical 9x19mm rounds, let's see what OP comes up w/.

While the increased pressures won't bother a blowback action like a Hi-Point or Kel-Tec SUB-2000, I wonder if you'll get case separation in a blowback action.

Posted: 6/8/2019 2:11:24 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
All else being equal, more penetration is better for everyone but police departments. For a pistol bullet, you'd always rather make a through hole than a blind one. There's plenty of meat in this bullet to expand larger than typical 9x19mm rounds, let's see what OP comes up w/.

While the increased pressures won't bother a blowback action like a Hi-Point or Kel-Tec SUB-2000, I wonder if you'll get case separation in a blowback action.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted: This guys have done some of the best head to head tests out there, of self defense ammo, out of realistic barrel lengths, through clothing.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

I don't understand the premise of this new ammo. The best 9mm hollow points penetrate plenty (16"), while expanding reasonably well. The downside of 9mm (compared to .40 or .45) is that it doesn't expand as big, making a smaller permanent cavity. So this new ammo will penetrate even deeper than 16"? What practical use is that?

All else being equal, more penetration is better for everyone but police departments. For a pistol bullet, you'd always rather make a through hole than a blind one. There's plenty of meat in this bullet to expand larger than typical 9x19mm rounds, let's see what OP comes up w/.

While the increased pressures won't bother a blowback action like a Hi-Point or Kel-Tec SUB-2000, I wonder if you'll get case separation in a blowback action.

I'm not sure if I completely agree with you. We generally all have to worry about over penetration just as much as cops, unless your environment is such that you don't have to worry about collateral damage. For example, you're out in the country, and everyone other than you is a bad guy. If that's the case, you might want to consider upping your game from a handgun anyway. For most of us, especially when we are carrying concealed in populated areas, we do need to concern ourselves about where bullets end up.

Posted: 6/8/2019 2:15:11 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I never get ammo randomly sent to me

View Quote

Dadgum

Posted: 6/8/2019 2:48:17 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
My carry ammo is 135gr Critical Duty, not likely to change. But, they gave me the stuff to try, so I will.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/360589/20190607_065754-1_jpg-972659.JPG

View Quote

Tell them that it isn't "9mm NATO" unless it's 124 grains.
That's a load standard, not a cartridge.

Posted: 6/8/2019 2:57:16 PM EDT

[#25]

I'd be interested to see what it does in some ballistic gel for shits and giggles. Gonna be hard for me to stop using HST, Ranger, or Gold Dot's though. Most of the casual goobers I see at the gun shows and that live at the gun store eat this stuff up though.

Posted: 6/8/2019 3:09:26 PM EDT

[#26]

SHOT Show 2019: Seismic High Mass Ammunition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KvNGMME_Bc

It looks interesting, but the cost is

Posted: 6/8/2019 3:18:16 PM EDT

[#27]

The casing isn't all that new. Been around for a few years. IIRC, it is capable of being reloaded more times than brass. Special dies are needed, however.

Posted: 6/8/2019 3:26:07 PM EDT

[#28]

Here are 2 more advanced rounds under development

First the 30-30 round ball load to simulate ammo in the Revolutionary War

Next is the 7.62x19mm

Posted: 6/8/2019 3:32:26 PM EDT

[#29]

Peter?

Peter LeMas? Is that you? Are you back in the ammo business, or just ammo names?

Recon SEAL double-death seismic fangface ammo from Hell....

Posted: 6/8/2019 5:27:42 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm not sure if I completely agree with you. We generally all have to worry about over penetration just as much as cops, unless your environment is such that you don't have to worry about collateral damage. For example, you're out in the country, and everyone other than you is a bad guy. If that's the case, you might want to consider upping your game from a handgun anyway. For most of us, especially when we are carrying concealed in populated areas, we do need to concern ourselves about where bullets end up.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted: All else being equal, more penetration is better for everyone but police departments. For a pistol bullet, you'd always rather make a through hole than a blind one. There's plenty of meat in this bullet to expand larger than typical 9x19mm rounds, let's see what OP comes up w/.

While the increased pressures won't bother a blowback action like a Hi-Point or Kel-Tec SUB-2000, I wonder if you'll get case separation in a blowback action.

I'm not sure if I completely agree with you. We generally all have to worry about over penetration just as much as cops, unless your environment is such that you don't have to worry about collateral damage. For example, you're out in the country, and everyone other than you is a bad guy. If that's the case, you might want to consider upping your game from a handgun anyway. For most of us, especially when we are carrying concealed in populated areas, we do need to concern ourselves about where bullets end up.

No, we don't, as long as we're hitting the miscreant. Show me an otherwise good shoot by a non-police civilian in which a non-miscreant was hit by a round that actually passed through a miscreant.

Out out the tens of thousands of non-police civilian shootings over the years, show me one where a good guy shot a bad guy and the bullet passed through the bad guy and hit another good guy. It just doesn't happen. You might miss and hit someone else, but if you're hitting your target, don't worry that bullet is going to hit anyone else.

Posted: 6/8/2019 7:47:18 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Same

Gold Dot, HST, or Critical Duty.

View Quote

Yeah, this... I'll let the FBI do my testing, thank you.

Posted: 6/9/2019 12:34:43 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

Yeah, this... I'll let the FBI do my testing, thank you.

View Quote

Never said this was going to be scientific by any means, I lack a laboratory, 1000 rounds for testing or even ballistic gelatin. Not sure what I might be using, but I will try to get something it will expand against/in, just to show that. Sorry, low speed/high drag non-operator here, who got a windfall and decided to share info, if I get any worth sharing.

As I said, I like my Critical Duty, very unlikely that I will change that any time soon.

Posted: 6/9/2019 12:38:52 AM EDT

[#33]

I'm just trying to figure out what real benefit 185gr stuffed into some super special two part case has over say 165gr - 170gr in a regular case with a bit more powder to push it.

Posted: 6/9/2019 12:41:43 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
The casing isn't all that new. Been around for a few years. IIRC, it is capable of being reloaded more times than brass. Special dies are needed, however.

View Quote

It appears I may have 84 once fired brass to trade soon. Wonder how many 55gr SP bullets that would be worth in trade?

Posted: 6/9/2019 12:41:48 AM EDT

[#35]

Stopped reading at “stopping power”.

Federal HST 147gr for me.

Posted: 6/9/2019 12:42:33 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm just trying to figure out what real benefit 185gr stuffed into some super special two part case has over say 165gr - 170gr in a regular case with a bit more powder to push it.

View Quote

Damn good question. Other than trying to cram a 45 ACP round into a 9mm case, I don't know, gonna try it and see what we learn.

Posted: 6/9/2019 12:42:37 AM EDT

[#37]

Posted: 6/9/2019 12:43:26 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Stopped reading at “stopping power”.

Federal HST 147gr for me.

View Quote

Sorry, that was their schtick and spiel not mine.

Posted: 6/9/2019 12:56:26 AM EDT

[#39]

I wonder how the performance will compare to RIP ammo. . .

Posted: 6/9/2019 1:24:10 AM EDT

[#40]

Saw some of that junk for sale once. Never bought any, no use for it.

Posted: 6/9/2019 1:24:35 AM EDT

[#41]

Will be in for the tests. But not really expecting much. If a heavier pill is desired, might as well step up in caliber.

As far as the media you’ll shoot into. There are always home recipes for diy gel. But, grain of salt and all. Or, pick up a pork shoulder and some ribs, hog head, etc.

Posted: 6/9/2019 8:12:31 AM EDT

[#42]

A block or two of clear gel would be ideal for this. And I think you can melt down clear gel & reuse it, no?

Posted: 6/9/2019 9:04:58 AM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:

Next is the 7.62x19mm

https://i.imgur.com/MaucKg5l.jpg

View Quote

lol.

Actually, the 7.62 looks a lot like my old signal load I used to carry with my Tokarev on sktreks. 7.62 NATO tracer bullet on top of a 1/2 powder charge Romanian surplus round. Always had a handful of them in case of injury to help locate me in the mountains. They had to be single-loaded but gave a good helix-shaped trace. Fun as heck to shoot, too.

As for the funky 9mm loads, I have observed the performance of many different calibers of service loads on butcher stock in the 40-250 pound class for many years. When I first started reporting my results after ditching the .45 ACP I was roundly attacked as a fraud, nut, liar, etc, etc, etc. Eventually, folks started coming around when the street performance began to catch up with my meat shooting results.

This new loading is pretty silly.

Posted: 6/9/2019 8:45:12 PM EDT

[#44]

I don't think I will have any gel, as I said, money isn't exactly free flowing over here. If I am really lucky I might be able to scrape up a roast to shoot. Otherwise, it will be mainly accuracy and chrono results with various firearms, plus shooting whatever items my cohort was hinting he was bringing. Of course, if this falls through for tomorrow, then I have time to save for a pork shoulder or find someone who has gelatin and a high speed camera.

Except...I don't know anyone out here who does. Oh well, I will do my best to do what I can with my poor resources. A few observations - one person on my board wondered if it would pass the plunk test in a CZ chamber, and the answer is yes.

The rounds I'll have out there, according to theory;

Attached File

They could charge less if they ditched the goofy packaging.

Attached File

Just for grins and giggles, weights;

Attached File

Attached File

Onward and downward we go...

Posted: 6/9/2019 9:20:30 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

Next is the 7.62x19mm

https://i.imgur.com/MaucKg5l.jpg

View Quote

Here ya go. Rounds on the disassembled slide:

And the trace:

OP, do what you want, but I wouldn't spend anything extra on those things.

Posted: 6/9/2019 9:26:24 PM EDT

[#46]

I just got some of the Federal Syntech Defense 9mm to mess with today.

Posted: 6/9/2019 9:34:26 PM EDT

[#47]

In for the test.

Ammo sounds gimmicky as hell but it should make for a fun test.

Posted: 6/9/2019 9:43:42 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
In for the test.

Ammo sounds gimmicky as hell but it should make for a fun test.

View Quote

Posted: 6/11/2019 12:39:48 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
A block or two of clear gel would be ideal for this. And I think you can melt down clear gel & reuse it, no?

View Quote

Yes. I have a FBI sized block from Clear Ballistics. Easy to work with and reuse. No temperature sensitivity. It’s not a 100% replacement. It has its caveats. But, for an average joe, it’s a good option.

Posted: 6/12/2019 9:50:09 AM EDT

[#50]

We didn't get to many things we wanted to due to temp - about 110 on the ground. Where did you get that gel, if you don't mind? EDIT - I see it on Amazon for $150.
I have part one mostly edited, waiting for the other participants feedback before publishing that bit, will get together with other items later to do some more testing, still have half the rounds left.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Going to do some 9mm ammo tests, brand new SD round - part two video up (Page 1 of 2)

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