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Posted: 7/21/2021 5:14:22 PM EDT
Military plan to replace Second World War-era pistols is on hold because of complaint

Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date:Jul 19, 2021

The plan to replace the Canadian military’s Second World War-era pistols is on hold for now after a firm representing one of the gun manufacturers complained the competition was designed to favour its competitors.

Federal government officials were to receive bids on Aug. 3 for new pistols to replace the army’s Browning Hi-Power handguns. The plan was to award a contract for a new gun by December and start delivering the first weapons to troops in the summer of 2022.

But that process has come to a halt after Rampart International of Ottawa, the firm that represents handgun manufacturer Glock in the Canadian market, filed a complaint with the Canadian International Trade Tribunal. Rampart alleges the government-run competition favours Glock’s rivals, Beretta and Sig Sauer.

As a result, the CITT has requested the federal government put any contract award on hold.

Public Services and Procurement Canada spokesman Jeremy Link said the department “has full confidence in the rigour, fairness and outcomes of its competitive procurement processes.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/military-plan-to-replace-second-world-war-era-pistols-is-on-hold-because-of-complaint

The pistol program is considered a priority by the Canadian Army as the number of working Browning Hi-Power handguns has significantly dwindled because of a lack of spare parts.



Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:16:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:18:41 PM EDT
What part of the competition specifically was intended to disfavor Glock? They’re complaining, so I assume it’s for a specific reason
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:20:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2021 5:20:28 PM EDT by Tomislav]
The only proper country in recent memory that handled a pistol replacement contract correctly was Great Britain.

Oi! Wankah! We need new pistols. Go to the pistol-monger and buy some pistols!

And with no drama, fuss, or drawn out ‘tests’, they got new pistols.


Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:20:43 PM EDT
Glock sure does know how to file a complaint.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:21:00 PM EDT
They probably will never actually load or use them anyway...
They should just buy their weapons directly from China.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:21:03 PM EDT
Glock has budged enough for the Canadian government. It already says sorry after every shot
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:22:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:22:55 PM EDT
I hope they import the BHPs
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:23:53 PM EDT
Glock always files the same complaint about every government contract.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:24:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Southernman077:
Glock sure does know how to file a complaint.
View Quote


Yup.  It seems like the effort could be better spent improving their products.  Perhaps, designing a model to be used by human beings.  But what do I know?
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:26:52 PM EDT
It seems like sidearms would be way down the list of shit to worry about for a military.

Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:26:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2021 5:32:04 PM EDT by Pallas]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rudukai13:
What part of the competition specifically was intended to disfavor Glock? They’re complaining, so I assume it’s for a specific reason
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rudukai13:
What part of the competition specifically was intended to disfavor Glock? They’re complaining, so I assume it’s for a specific reason


Basically:
Paragraph 1.2.2.5: “‘Modular Pistol’ is defined as a pistol where the entire trigger group can be removed and dropped into another pistol frame size.”
Paragraph 3.7, Trigger Group: “The trigger group must be removable as a complete assembly. The trigger group must fit/function in any grip frame housing regardless of slide size or calibre.”


Without saying it, CA basically wants the 320. You can't blame them since that is what the US uses. The 320 is giving Glock a run for it's money and Glock doesn't like that one bit! With mil contracts usually comes LE contracts, and civilians often follow who's using what.

Look, I carry a Glock so I'm not anti-Glock... But, Gaston's refused to ever do anything innovative besides half ass back straps, adding or removing finger grooves with generations, and the company has been left somewhat sucking wind when it comes to innovation. The of course Glock's bid to the US Military was obscenely high.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:30:34 PM EDT
Maybe in 15 years, Glock will finally release a modular chassis pistol.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:32:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pallas:


Basically:


Without saying it, CA basically wants the 320. You can't blame them since that is what the US uses. The 320 is giving Glock a run for it's money and Glock doesn't like that one bit! With mil contracts usually comes LE contracts, and civilians often follow who's using what.
View Quote


Yeah, this isn't surprising at all, honestly. The requirements were pretty much "please submit a SIG P320".
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:32:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2021 5:34:00 PM EDT by Pallas]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAG2955:
Maybe in 15 years, Glock will finally release a modular chassis pistol.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAG2955:
Maybe in 15 years, Glock will finally release a modular chassis pistol.


When Gaston drops dead they likely will.

eah, this isn't surprising at all, honestly. The requirements were pretty much "please submit a SIG P320".


And who could blame them?!?
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:32:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chase45:
I hope they import the BHPs
View Quote


As soon as this contract is settled those guns go straight to the bandsaw or cutting torch.

Probably all the small parts too. Can't trust most Canadians with weapons in my experience, and definetly not their government.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:33:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rudukai13:
What part of the competition specifically was intended to disfavor Glock? They’re complaining, so I assume it’s for a specific reason
View Quote



I bet a Manual thumb safey
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:33:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:36:47 PM EDT
Says in the article the 320 that the JTF2 operator got shot with was not the issue either. He finger banged the trigger like we all thought and Glocked himself in the leg.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:38:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shotar:


So Glock does not make what they want, therefore the competition is unfair.
View Quote

Exactly. Requirements state they want a modular chassis separate from a grip frame and Glock Perfection tells the Canadians, no you don’t need that, rewrite your pistol specs.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:39:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chase45:
I hope they import the BHPs
View Quote


I, among many I know, would jump at the opportunity to buy one.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:40:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MVolkJ:


Yeah, this isn't surprising at all, honestly. The requirements were pretty much "please submit a SIG P320".
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MVolkJ:
Originally Posted By Pallas:


Basically:


Without saying it, CA basically wants the 320. You can't blame them since that is what the US uses. The 320 is giving Glock a run for it's money and Glock doesn't like that one bit! With mil contracts usually comes LE contracts, and civilians often follow who's using what.


Yeah, this isn't surprising at all, honestly. The requirements were pretty much "please submit a SIG P320".


Well they want a modular pistol. Who can blame them? If that is a requirement they want why should they consider weapons that don't meet them?
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:40:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BayEagle:
Wish I could get a couple milsurp BHPs from the Great White North. My Israelis kick ass.
View Quote

Originally Posted By chase45:
I hope they import the BHPs
View Quote

yes, we need them down here ASAP
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:42:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:


Well they want a modular pistol. Who can blame them? If that is a requirement they want why should they consider weapons that don't meet them?
View Quote


Absolutely - they should be able to write their requirements in whatever way they want. I'm just saying I'm not surprised Glock is throwing a fit over it.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:42:44 PM EDT
Same as it ever was.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:43:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2021 5:44:01 PM EDT by AJSully421]
Sounds like they want a Sig 320/M17.

That is the only one that meets all of their requirements.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:44:34 PM EDT
It's the Canadian military.  How many pistols are they going to buy?  Two or three dozen?
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:46:17 PM EDT
Glock, "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WE LOST AGAIN!"

News at 10.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:46:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2021 5:47:33 PM EDT by tsg68]
Is Glock gonna license to Colt Canada?  Is SIG?  I see this falling flat unless they do just like Ruger’s rifle.  Tikka ended up licensing.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:47:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tsg68:
Is Glock gonna license to Colt Canada?  Is SIG?  I see this falling flat unless they do just like Ruger’s rifle.  Tikka ended up licensing.
View Quote


Licensing requirements have been removed from this because they were told to go pound sand last time they tried it.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:47:30 PM EDT
I’m a Glock guy through and through, but this crybaby bullshit that happens when they don’t get a contract is tiresome.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:48:05 PM EDT
Glock is pretty much going out the door at this point. Should've tried to innovate rather than spew the glock perfection bs.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:48:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mike_314:
It's the Canadian military.  How many pistols are they going to buy?  Two or three dozen?
View Quote

Enough to false flag and get a Mountie informant or employee to murder people and try to use it to gin up more gun control?
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:49:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MshakeMO:
It seems like sidearms would be way down the list of shit to worry about for a military.

View Quote


No shit, give everyone a Makarov and be done with it.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:52:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZeBool:
I’m a Glock guy through and through, but this crybaby bullshit that happens when they don’t get a contract is tiresome.
View Quote


The fact that limp dick federal governments entertain them is even more pathetic.  If had a contract for a new service pistol, I'd make the requirements whatever I damn well pleased and if Glock didn't have a gun to fit those restrictions, they could suck my dick.  Complain and protest all you like, but at the end of the day I'm the customer, not you.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:52:17 PM EDT
If they really wanted the 320 they should have just bought them. Not like your testing unknown guns.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 5:52:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MVolkJ:


Yeah, this isn't surprising at all, honestly. The requirements were pretty much "please submit a SIG P320".
View Quote
Then why have a competition? Just go to Sig, get a price, haggle, then buy.

If the competition has a predetermined outcome then having it only opens you up to complaints.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 6:01:20 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GrinningDag:
Glock is pretty much going out the door at this point. Should've tried to innovate rather than spew the glock perfection bs.
View Quote


Problem is it seems like they have 3 different 9mm magazines at this point. One for standard Glocks, two different ones for their new slim pistols.

They should make a P320 like modular design Glock as the next generation.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 6:07:10 PM EDT
I have multiple 320s and glocks, but what is the .mil appeal of wanting to swap trigger groups?

Just go with glock 19/M18 size gun and be done?

I’m sure there’s a reason but is the military really going to be caliber swapping?  

My experience from the military is: here’s your pistol good luck
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 6:07:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2021 6:09:42 PM EDT by tsg68]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:


Problem is it seems like they have 3 different 9mm magazines at this point. One for standard Glocks, two different ones for their new slim pistols.

They should make a P320 like modular design Glock as the next generation.
View Quote

Poop on modular. The only reason to have a modular trigger pack is the aftermarket which Mil isn’t going to engage in.  I prefer dedicated weapons and Glocks are cheap.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 6:09:35 PM EDT
Technically, these are not Browning Hi Powers. These are the Inglis-mfg Mk1*  and No 1 Mk2 originally manufactured for the Chinese and British governments.  They had so many in reserve stock, they were stripping brand-new, never issued pistols just for the spare parts. (See "The Canadian Diamond" Clive Law 2001)

The Canadian Forces were running around Afghanistan with WWII era Inglis Hi Powers, with a few specialized units like JTF2 using Sig 226s and other more conventional units using the single column Sig 225 9mm.

When the Brit MOD wore out theirs, they just went to FN and bought a bunch of post 1962-mfg exposed extractor BHPs to issue as the L9A1 9mm. There is a famous photo of Prince Harry packing an L9A1 in Afghanistan:
Attachment Attached File


Then replaced the FN BHP L9A1 9mm with Glock 17 as the L131A1 in 2013.

I would be willing to bet none of the Canadian Forces Inglis Mk1* or No1 Mk2 pistols will be released on the civilian market, they are all going to wind up going to the smelter, despite prices upwards of $7500 for a mint, in box Inglis No1 Mk2,

They could buy a frick load of Glocks or M17s with the proceeds from the Inglis Hi Powers.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 6:09:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2021 6:10:40 PM EDT by proheromk1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZeBool:
I’m a Glock guy through and through, but this crybaby bullshit that happens when they don’t get a contract is tiresome.
View Quote

Every single arms manufacturer does this when they lose. It’s not exclusive to Glock. It’s almost as if it is an integral part of government contracting at this point.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 6:11:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pallas:


Basically:


Without saying it, CA basically wants the 320. You can't blame them since that is what the US uses. The 320 is giving Glock a run for it's money and Glock doesn't like that one bit! With mil contracts usually comes LE contracts, and civilians often follow who's using what.

Look, I carry a Glock so I'm not anti-Glock... But, Gaston's refused to ever do anything innovative besides half ass back straps, adding or removing finger grooves with generations, and the company has been left somewhat sucking wind when it comes to innovation. The of course Glock's bid to the US Military was obscenely high.
View Quote
Gaston is 92 is he even working there anymore?
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 6:14:24 PM EDT
I don't what they buy as long as they surplus their Hi Powers and don't melt them.
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 6:55:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Glock needs to hire Castro Jr's mom
View Quote

I keep forgetting she's still alive
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 7:06:01 PM EDT
I really like Glocks, but some topic's brings out the emotionally unhinged if Glock isn't numbah one like the M17 & M18.



Link Posted: 7/21/2021 7:18:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pallas:


Basically:


Without saying it, CA basically wants the 320. You can't blame them since that is what the US uses. The 320 is giving Glock a run for it's money and Glock doesn't like that one bit! With mil contracts usually comes LE contracts, and civilians often follow who's using what.

Look, I carry a Glock so I'm not anti-Glock... But, Gaston's refused to ever do anything innovative besides half ass back straps, adding or removing finger grooves with generations, and the company has been left somewhat sucking wind when it comes to innovation. The of course Glock's bid to the US Military was obscenely high.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pallas:
Originally Posted By Rudukai13:
What part of the competition specifically was intended to disfavor Glock? They’re complaining, so I assume it’s for a specific reason


Basically:
Paragraph 1.2.2.5: “‘Modular Pistol’ is defined as a pistol where the entire trigger group can be removed and dropped into another pistol frame size.”
Paragraph 3.7, Trigger Group: “The trigger group must be removable as a complete assembly. The trigger group must fit/function in any grip frame housing regardless of slide size or calibre.”


Without saying it, CA basically wants the 320. You can't blame them since that is what the US uses. The 320 is giving Glock a run for it's money and Glock doesn't like that one bit! With mil contracts usually comes LE contracts, and civilians often follow who's using what.

Look, I carry a Glock so I'm not anti-Glock... But, Gaston's refused to ever do anything innovative besides half ass back straps, adding or removing finger grooves with generations, and the company has been left somewhat sucking wind when it comes to innovation. The of course Glock's bid to the US Military was obscenely high.


Ah, the competition required that they innovate and now they’re throwing a tantrum. Got it.

I’ve said if before, the OZ9 modular pistols are what the Gen5 Glocks should have been by now if Glock was actually willing to develop anything new
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 7:20:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LostX:
Glock always files the same complaint about every government contract.
View Quote

So they have "perfected" the complaint process??
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 7:21:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MVolkJ:


Yeah, this isn't surprising at all, honestly. The requirements were pretty much "please submit a SIG P320".
View Quote


The Beretta APX and Zev’s OZ9 (a Glock derivative) also fit the modular trigger pack requirement. Not their fault Glock hasn’t actually done anything new in the last three decades
Link Posted: 7/21/2021 7:23:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:


Problem is it seems like they have 3 different 9mm magazines at this point. One for standard Glocks, two different ones for their new slim pistols.

They should make a P320 like modular design Glock as the next generation.
View Quote


Zev already did that for them it’s called the OZ9
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