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Posted: 10/24/2022 3:28:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Weight- because Det don't wear full duty belts. More Concealable under a suit coat/sports coat, when I was a Detective we were required to cover our pistols anytime we left the building. ( I hated that in July/August) The two platforms do offer some compatibility as both can use G17 magazines if needed. Detective don't usually respond to crimes in progress.
eta- What does the command staff carry? They might like to be included |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 3:44:34 PM EDT
[#2]
2 less rounds and .5” of barrel and slide isn’t much weight. I wouldn’t give up a 17 for a 19.
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Posted: 10/24/2022 4:05:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Why only the 19? Why not the 26? You aren't saving much going to the 19. Two rounds and .5" on the barrel and grip. Might be a hard sell.
Make the case for the 26 showing how much of a difference there is, and then at the end throw in the 19 to give the detectives the choice between the two. I have carried a 17 and a 26 as my duty weapons for over a decade. The 19 doesn't fit my hand well. The 26 with a mag floor plate from pierce grip is a better fit for me. And I always carry a 19 round mag (G17 with a factory+2) for a reload for either pistol. Just my own opinion |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 5:50:31 PM EDT
[#4]
The Model 45 is what we went to. We still have the option of the 19 and 26 if we want. I have all three personally and qualify with all of them so I can pick and choose which to carry given the occasion.
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Posted: 10/24/2022 7:00:00 PM EDT
[#5]
A lot of squeeze and very little juice. Wouldn't waste the effort.
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Posted: 10/24/2022 7:25:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Model 45 is what we went to. We still have the option of the 19 and 26 if we want. I have all three personally and qualify with all of them so I can pick and choose which to carry given the occasion. What do you think of the 45? I was looking for a new carry gun and was considering a 19 but then the 45 caught my eye. Pros/cons? |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 10:29:20 PM EDT
[#7]
I think the 19 is the perfect size for plain clothes carry. Easier to conceal. More comfortable in chairs, and various unmarked units due to shorter grip and barrel length.
I really like the model 45 and use that for uniform / swat use. In plain clothes, I’m carrying a 19 with TLR-7A |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 7:10:17 PM EDT
[#8]
We issue Sigs, and the Defectives got it approved to carry the 365 while in the office doing admin tasks. They got it blessed off because they added in the policy that if they are going to be in a situation in which they will be in contact with the public in a law enforcement role they must carry their full sized duty weapon outside of emergency situations.
Me personally I can't see the juice being worth the squeeze to go from a 17 to a 19, versus going down to something smaller like a 26 or a 43. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 7:21:57 PM EDT
[#9]
I would just issue G-19s and be done with it.
Require all spare mags be G-17 mags. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 7:40:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Our detectives had an option to go from their G22 to a G23. Same issues as 17/19. It came up because they wanted to carry G27s but that was vetoed because the 27 couldn’t accept the gun lights they were issued. It did complicate the mag and holster logistics but no one was issued both guns, they just got G23 size duty holsters for the odd required uniform situation, and if they went back to patrol they gave up their G23 and got aG22 reissued. I worked plain cloths half my career and stayed with the G22, G23 didn’t fit my big hands well and not much saving in size and weight, didn’t want to give up 2 rounds and 1/2” of sight radius. Like the idea of the G17 for all the spare mags if you do get 19s.
And yes G45 is my current favorite model. |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 10:13:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Almost all of the above. Why take anything away from a cop just because they are not in uniform?
Whether you are in court, going to someone's house for an interview, following up at a store, etc, they all know you are a cop! |
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Posted: 10/25/2022 11:13:46 PM EDT
[#12]
No advantages that wouldn’t be furthered by something like a silly ruger LCP. Or how about this…let them carry what they want?
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Posted: 10/26/2022 8:52:43 PM EDT
[#13]
I brought in a 26 and a 19 and my folks chose the 19, even the female deputies.
I think the smaller size will be more comfortable and the magazine compatibility will be nice. Narcotics (not my guys) currently carry the 43, and they resoundingly asked to ditch the 43 and get in on the 19. A few command staff that carry the 43 have made inquiries about jumping on board. At last check it was approved, unsure when the funding will be appropriated. Quote was for the Gen 5. |
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Posted: 10/28/2022 10:05:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Having just gone through our pistol quals and scores, I can tell you that some of our worst were those carrying a 19 versus a 17. Could it be that they are old crusty detectives or because the 17 is inherently easier to shoot? Not sure, but it's not a coincidence that it happens yearly.
What advantage does the smaller gun provide for plain clothes? Like I said earlier, most people still know you are a cop. Do your plain clothes guys get issued smaller handcuffs? A smaller radio? A smaller badge? |
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Posted: 10/31/2022 5:46:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Out investigators are issued both the 17 and the 26
I guess that it's a popular equipment choice for them |
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Posted: 10/31/2022 6:13:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Why are you making this proposal if you seemingly have no thoughts in your head of what justifies it? Is concealment really an issue? Are your officers carrying some kind of IWB concealment setup on duty while in plain clothes? If not then there is really no good reason. I’d be willing to bet the majority people shoot a 17 more accurately than the 19 and I’m also sure most of your officers could use the extra capacity the 17 provides over the 19
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Posted: 10/31/2022 11:34:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Are your detectives on board with this? Will admin authorize them being issued two guns?
Uniformed patrol is currently issued the gen4 31 while the detectives are issued the gen4 32. We're now mandated to use the trijicon rmr. we settled on the glock 45 mos-5 for everyone. uniformed patrol and detectives. |
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Posted: 11/1/2022 3:15:43 PM EDT
[#18]
I'm currently a Detective and still carry my G17 w/ TLR-1. Some guys have turned their 17s in for a 19 while others carry their 34s (SWAT guys).
Everyone at my agency is also issued a G43 and some carry them in the office. I personally don't see an advantage a 19 give me over a 17, but I don't have to conceal my pistol when I leave the office like one of the above posters. |
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Posted: 11/3/2022 8:10:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Why not just authorize them to carry a personally owned G19 or G26? That way you aren't wasting money on extra guns that you have to track, won't get taken care of & worry about being stolen.
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Posted: 11/3/2022 6:23:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Some agencies won't let you carry personally owned weapons on duty.
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Posted: 11/13/2022 12:33:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Every Sworn Officer from Chief down are all issued G21's as that is the only pistol we issue. If the Detective/Admin/CRU/Marine Unit wishes to carry a different weapon as their primary carry they can. It just needs to be approved by the armorer(Me) and we supply the ammunition for both quals and duty carry. It is much easier to order parts, do repairs etc. on agency owned pistols when they are all the same vs having to stock parts for multiple different ones. As the armorer I will not do repairs or maintenance on personally owned guns unless they wanna pay me to do it on my own time. I will say that 80% just carry the 21. The other 20% carry mostly the G43 or G45 due to the smaller size. They still must do the state qual as well as any other courses of fire we shoot with both the G21 and whatever else they wish to carry.
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Posted: 11/13/2022 4:07:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Lots of places issue G19 as a patrol pistol. No reason to maintain 2 pistols.. I don’t see why the detectives couldn’t use a G19 on the road.
Glock 19 is small enough to conceal or carry IWB but big enough to fight with. Common magazine sharing with G17. Same holsters as G17. It is the do all pistol. I love it. We do G17 for uniform and G19 for detectives and command staff. I won’t even talk about G26 cause it doesn’t do anything better than the G19. |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 4:09:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are you making this proposal if you seemingly have no thoughts in your head of what justifies it? Is concealment really an issue? Are your officers carrying some kind of IWB concealment setup on duty while in plain clothes? If not then there is really no good reason. I’d be willing to bet the majority people shoot a 17 more accurately than the 19 and I’m also sure most of your officers could use the extra capacity the 17 provides over the 19 17 doesn’t offer additional capacity.. the magazines do ?? |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 6:34:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Our detective bureau went to G26. Much easier to conceal, can use full size mags, and they seemed to shoot more accurately than the full sized guns.
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Posted: 11/16/2022 1:17:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Why not the 48? With or without Shield mags.
Some of our office cats have ditched their full size pieces and swapped over, and I can't blame them. If you're willing to accept the concept of using an aftermarket mag, the 48 offers everything that the 19 does, but in a more usable width. |
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Posted: 11/16/2022 2:07:53 AM EDT
[#26]
I’ve worked 21 of my 26 years on a big city police department in plainclothes
Several years of that working UC My department issues G17 to everyone across the board We also authorize anyone not in uniform to carry personally owned firearms on duty once qualified The list of off duty and BUGs is pretty broad but basically any quality manufacturer in 9, 40, 45 I carry my personal G17.5 milled by Jagerwerks for Holosun 508T and x300u most of the time for work. I’m one of a handful of guys authorized for optic as one of the T&E guys for firearms and gear. I prefer the G17 since I shoot it better I think it’s a good policy for everyone to have a full-size gun. Maybe open things up for your detectives to carry there personal G19 on duty...? |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 9:16:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Plenty of agencies issue G19’s for patrol, I can’t imagine any concern over using it for Dets.
My old agency is now a 17 or 19 for patrol. Before that we had 22’s and 23’s for patrol. Command and Dets could carry the same, or they could carry a G26. Back before the switch back to 9mm, it was 27’s. If they were in uniform, they had to go with the 17/19. (They were issued both a 17/19 when hired, plus the 26 when they made it to Dets). These days I think a 43X or 48 (especially with Shield mags) is very viable for plainclothes usage. No reason not to have a smaller/thinner weapon with similar capacity to the 19. Only thing I would not personally be in favor of would be any of the single stacks- 36 or 43 models for example. 10 rd mags minimum is kind of my thinking. I do think the places that allow a 26, but require 17 sized reload mags, may have it right. I carried the 24 rd mags for my 17 reloads on patrol. No reason to reload with a small mag, or one that won’t fit your coworkers weapon. Just a thought. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 9:34:50 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plenty of agencies issue G19’s for patrol, I can’t imagine any concern over using it for Dets. My old agency is now a 17 or 19 for patrol. Before that we had 22’s and 23’s for patrol. Command and Dets could carry the same, or they could carry a G26. Back before the switch back to 9mm, it was 27’s. If they were in uniform, they had to go with the 17/19. (They were issued both a 17/19 when hired, plus the 26 when they made it to Dets). These days I think a 43X or 48 (especially with Shield mags) is very viable for plainclothes usage. No reason not to have a smaller/thinner weapon with similar capacity to the 19. Only thing I would not personally be in favor of would be any of the single stacks- 36 or 43 models for example. 10 rd mags minimum is kind of my thinking. I do think the places that allow a 26, but require 17 sized reload mags, may have it right. I carried the 24 rd mags for my 17 reloads on patrol. No reason to reload with a small mag, or one that won’t fit your coworkers weapon. Just a thought. This is exactly my line of thinking except the 43x/48. We talked about that for a min, but ultimately the decision was made to stick with 19s when I showed the 48 and 19 are (almost) identical in size except width and weight. The bigger advantage to Glock 19 or 17 is same mags, same holsters, same WML, same spare parts, same RDS, same RDS plate, same everything. Guys are allowed to buy personal G43x/48 qual and carry, but we aren't issuing those models for the above reasons. I completely agree on reloads. I about have a seizure when I see someone carrying a G26/27 with a 10 rd reload "because that is what came in the box". |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 9:39:54 PM EDT
[#29]
When I started as an LEO in 1990, I began with a then-new 3rd Gen S&W 9mm, but as soon as my SO authorized Glocks I bought a G19. I thought it was the 'cat's meow'. Until I had a chance to shoot a G17. I found that with a proper holster and attention to clothing I could conceal the G17 just as easily as the G19. What was more important, though, was that I could shoot the G17 even better.
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Posted: 11/17/2022 9:52:00 PM EDT
[#30]
How often has your detectives have had to use their weapon that they felt the G17 was too much gun?
If it is an issue with concealing it, why is the G19 the only one considered? Without knowing infield use it looks like a way to waste money before the end of the fiscal year because you have a budget surplus |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 1:21:45 AM EDT
[#31]
We have a choice of being issued either the 17 or 19 regardless of assignment. A limited amount of G26s are available to be issued in addition to the primary weapon with a priority given to those in a plain clothes assignment.
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Posted: 11/18/2022 9:36:35 PM EDT
[#32]
What a stupid idea
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Posted: 11/20/2022 10:44:48 AM EDT
[#33]
The 19 is fine for whatever you need it to do. It is easier to conceal and it can do everything a 17 can do. Red dots make barrel length irrelevant.
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Posted: 11/20/2022 11:49:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 19 is fine for whatever you need it to do. It is easier to conceal and it can do everything a 17 can do. Red dots make barrel length irrelevant. Sums it up |
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Posted: 11/21/2022 7:44:29 PM EDT
[#35]
If they’re keeping the 17 for uniform or other duties, I’d go for a 43x instead of the 19.
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Posted: 11/22/2022 5:29:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Some great advice reading through the thread. I think the 19 would be a perfect fit but I am biased as it is one of my favorite Glocks.
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Posted: 11/24/2022 8:54:42 AM EDT
[#37]
I would go from 17 to a 26
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Posted: 11/29/2022 11:56:44 AM EDT
[#38]
Sorry OP..... but guys need to be able to carry what they want. Since it sounds like you guys live in a neutered world where people are still heavily controlled, I would push the envelope and ask for permission to allow carrying of any of the Glock 9 models and allow it to be detective choice. Everyone and body is different and you need them to have the options they WILL carry and be comfortable with.
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Posted: 12/13/2022 4:53:16 AM EDT
[#39]
We issue 35s and initially allowed detectives and officers with smaller hands, primarily females, to elect for a 23 instead. I carried the 35, with a light, as a detective and it didn’t bother me. All of our officers who initially used the 23 ended up switching to the 35 after realizing the 35 was much easier to shoot well. Personally I would be fine with a 19 if required but we found lazy people liked the idea of carrying a smaller gun but ended up not being able to shoot it well. The shooters didn’t mind a little less comfort for more capability. If you’re UC or something where you need to hide it well, then maybe it’s worth it.
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Posted: 2/14/2023 3:53:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Why?
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