Federal Court Strikes Down NFA Registration on "untaxed" firearms (Page 188 of 194)
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Originally Posted By CZRider: Yeah, I'm not that willing to be charitable in their intentions. Too many instances of "whoops there's a social problem better claim power we aren't allowed to have and oppress the citizens forever" and too many solutions that would work better and respect the 2A for it to be well-intentioned fecklessness. Originally Posted By CZRider: Originally Posted By mike_nds: Both the 1934 and 1994 laws were reactions to organized crime. Liquor and drug prohibition created demand, gangs filled the demand. They used guns to protect turf, hence the knee jerk legislation  Yeah, I'm not that willing to be charitable in their intentions. Too many instances of "whoops there's a social problem better claim power we aren't allowed to have and oppress the citizens forever" and too many solutions that would work better and respect the 2A for it to be well-intentioned fecklessness. |
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Originally Posted By colklink: You guys don't take the suppressor off to clean the barrel? I guess if you just run a boresnake through it, but I would be afraid of losing a patch in a sealed suppressor. Originally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX: Rocksett and leave it is what im doing with my 4473 poloniums lol You guys don't take the suppressor off to clean the barrel? I guess if you just run a boresnake through it, but I would be afraid of losing a patch in a sealed suppressor. |
"During the second 100 days, we will design, build and open a library dedicated to my first 100 days." -Barack Obama, May 9 2009
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Originally Posted By colklink: You guys don't take the suppressor off to clean the barrel? I guess if you just run a boresnake through it, but I would be afraid of losing a patch in a sealed suppressor. Originally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX: Rocksett and leave it is what im doing with my 4473 poloniums lol You guys don't take the suppressor off to clean the barrel? I guess if you just run a boresnake through it, but I would be afraid of losing a patch in a sealed suppressor. If removing for cleaning is a priority, use direct thread mounts with wrench flats and proper torque. Or if you use Rocksett, just throw the upper in a bucket of water and submerge everything to just past the muzzle threads the day before cleaning. |
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Originally Posted By AR4U: ...clean the barrel? Originally Posted By Glocked: If removing for cleaning is a priority, use direct thread mounts with wrench flats and proper torque. Or if you use Rocksett, just throw the upper in a bucket of water and submerge everything to just past the muzzle threads the day before cleaning. Gotcha. I only have one direct thread suppressor, the only thing holding it on is torque. Haven't removed it for cleaning yet, but I was wondering. |
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Originally Posted By AR4U: Wnat he's saying is that both are government solutions to problems created by the government. I backed off using that argument for the sake of not getting jumped on by some back the blue type, but I wouldn't disagree. Always a problem government action had a hand in creating, always a solution of government action that disproportionately falls on people exercising their rights within the law. At least until the law changes and suddenly your dog or wife gets killed over it. |
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Originally Posted By Soxfan: Email Bernie, let him know. You say that, but I bet there is in fact some democrat politician somewhere who is in fact so stupid that you could get them to attack the NFA as racist Jim Crow poll taxation against disadvantaged Americans and people of color, right up until they find out what the F is for 
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Originally Posted By Amped: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/179056/IMG_2904_jpeg-3826962.JPG 35 rounds through this FT5 and it’s still together. That’s lasted 30 more rounds then my last can How's it sound? |
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Originally Posted By Soxfan: It’s all so tiresome. To get my OTC suppressor, I still had to go through a quick background with the 4473. What does the NICS vs the regular 4473 check do? They are the same. the check you get when filling out any 4473 IS the NICS check. They use your identifying information, full legal name, DOB, physical description and check that through their system which is pretty standard. State Driver's license/ID card database, federal NCIC check which includes what is called triple I. That database is called Interstate Identification Index and holds arrests, criminal charges and incarcerations. They can also see if you have an index number having been fingerprinted and having those sent to the FBI like for military service, security clearances, background checks for a number of government/civilian jobs. |
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Originally Posted By Tamarit_167: All those hurdles to just exercise a Constitutional Right? I thought Texas was super pro 2a? Texas now has Constitutional carry. The CHL/LTC predates that by a couple of decades. Can still get and renew the LTC which provides some certain benefits over Constitutional carry including bypassing the NICS check. |
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Originally Posted By Soxfan: Right, but whenever I’ve had long wait times and I call, the ATF says they are waiting on the background check. If it’s the same background check, why does it take the ATF and NFA process so long when at a dealer it’s 10-15 min? Originally Posted By Soxfan: Originally Posted By Glocked: If they’re not transferred via Form 4. The NICS check is done when you pick it up since they’re treated as regular firearms. If it was done on a Form 4, there is no NICS check required when you pick it up and complete the 4473 since the NICS check was done during the NFA process. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483179/IMG_2291_jpeg-3826803.JPG Right, but whenever I’ve had long wait times and I call, the ATF says they are waiting on the background check. If it’s the same background check, why does it take the ATF and NFA process so long when at a dealer it’s 10-15 min? Given the fact that people mail stacks of form ones, fours, fives, etc and all have fingerprint cards that have to be sorted out from the paperwork, logged and sent over to the FBI and fed into a scanner. Somebody's got to monitor that, double check everything and if there's a discrepancy, ID tech's have to compare the fingerprint card to what's on file. By hand. Takes a while. Yeah. It takes just minutes to run through the machines per card but there's a stack. Get it? At my little dinky cop shop, the gals at Records process them print cards on the spot if you want to wait, takes a few minutes usually, depending on which system you want checked. At the FBI building, (as in D.C) that check is minutes away like any federal office. (how do you THINK I know that, LOL) Remember there are many state, federal, international agencies that are involved. All interconnected (supposedly) but nothing's perfect. Ask anybody that's ever been denied, and got hooked up by mistake and jailed for a couple days/weeks until they figured it out. In the old days it DID take days, weeks for those ten cards to be classified by hand. By a human. The machine does them muy pronto. Ricky-tik. Sometimes there are errors and in those cases, the human has to do a bit of work that takes time. |
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Originally Posted By AR4U: ...clean the barrel? Originally Posted By AR4U: Originally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX: Rocksett and leave it is what im doing with my 4473 poloniums lol You guys don't take the suppressor off to clean the barrel? I guess if you just run a boresnake through it, but I would be afraid of losing a patch in a sealed suppressor. It's self cleaning. |
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Originally Posted By tr6r: I've read the ruling...... My interpretation is that I can swap out my pistol braces for stocks.... I'm also not a lawyer.... I've also read the Constitution..... Yet how many people are there in prison for unconstitutional gun laws.... I don't want to be one of them.. State? |
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Originally Posted By NachoDip: Freedom is scary… to some. Originally Posted By NachoDip: Originally Posted By shadycoh: I am glad you think that is a good selling point for your State. Freedom is scary… to some. Given the choice I think I'd have preferred "gun rights but no weed" Colorado to "weed but no gun rights" Colorado 
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Originally Posted By CZRider: You say that, but I bet there is in fact some democrat politician somewhere who is in fact so stupid that you could get them to attack the NFA as racist Jim Crow poll taxation against disadvantaged Americans and people of color, right up until they find out what the F is for Originally Posted By CZRider: Originally Posted By Soxfan: Email Bernie, let him know. You say that, but I bet there is in fact some democrat politician somewhere who is in fact so stupid that you could get them to attack the NFA as racist Jim Crow poll taxation against disadvantaged Americans and people of color, right up until they find out what the F is for Fucking desantis wont let us have FRT's, and I do not know anyone in my area selling on 4473. I have heard rumors of rumors but nothing verified. |
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Three weeks left for the federal government's deadline to file a notice of appeal and I'm thinking they're not going to, or they would have done so by now. I also see the ATF has yet to put out the guidance they've said is on the way. Coincidence? For those of you that are much smarter than I am, and there are plenty of you, is it possible the ATF is waiting for the deadline to pass before they issue the guidance to possibly avoid certain scenarios or even create irreversible ones beneficial to us? What would be the advantage in waiting until after Oct 5? I mean at that point, the injunction become law and much harder (but not impossible) for future admins to reverse, so is this the endgame? NFA dissolution? |
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Originally Posted By CarlosC: Three weeks left for the federal government's deadline to file a notice of appeal and I'm thinking they're not going to, or they would have done so by now. I also see the ATF has yet to put out the guidance they've said is on the way. Coincidence? For those of you that are much smarter than I am, and there are plenty of you, is it possible the ATF is waiting for the deadline to pass before they issue the guidance to possibly avoid certain scenarios or even create irreversible ones beneficial to us? What would be the advantage in waiting until after Oct 5? I mean at that point, the injunction become law and much harder (but not impossible) for future admins to reverse, so is this the endgame? NFA dissolution? IF they do it it'll be last minute Personally I think it's 5-10% chance of them appealing |
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Originally Posted By craig24680: IF they do it it'll be last minute Personally I think it's 5-10% chance of them appealing Originally Posted By craig24680: Originally Posted By CarlosC: Three weeks left for the federal government's deadline to file a notice of appeal and I'm thinking they're not going to, or they would have done so by now. I also see the ATF has yet to put out the guidance they've said is on the way. Coincidence? For those of you that are much smarter than I am, and there are plenty of you, is it possible the ATF is waiting for the deadline to pass before they issue the guidance to possibly avoid certain scenarios or even create irreversible ones beneficial to us? What would be the advantage in waiting until after Oct 5? I mean at that point, the injunction become law and much harder (but not impossible) for future admins to reverse, so is this the endgame? NFA dissolution? IF they do it it'll be last minute Personally I think it's 5-10% chance of them appealing They can technically ask for an extension up to 30 days after that 60 day window, but from what I understand that's usually not done unless it's a small case that the DOJ is unaware of which would be hard to push for given the public statements already made about this. That said, IANAL so who knows
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Originally Posted By CarlosC: Three weeks left for the federal government's deadline to file a notice of appeal and I'm thinking they're not going to, or they would have done so by now. I also see the ATF has yet to put out the guidance they've said is on the way. Coincidence? For those of you that are much smarter than I am, and there are plenty of you, is it possible the ATF is waiting for the deadline to pass before they issue the guidance to possibly avoid certain scenarios or even create irreversible ones beneficial to us? What would be the advantage in waiting until after Oct 5? I mean at that point, the injunction become law and much harder (but not impossible) for future admins to reverse, so is this the endgame? NFA dissolution? Kinda wild. A few years ago I wouldn't have believed this was possible. |
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Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: Fucking desantis wont let us have FRT's, and I do not know anyone in my area selling on 4473. I have heard rumors of rumors but nothing verified. DeSantis can't "let you have" FRTs because the anti-gun republicans of the Florida legislature colluded with democrats to pass an oppressively broad "bump stock ban" and DeSantis' predecessor and current senator Rick Scott signed it into law. The anti-gun republican legislature has been fighting to uphold their gun control ever since and GOA has been dragging them kicking and screaming through the courts to win us back our rights. There are maybe half a dozen shops doing 4473 cans last I knew. I've gone to Shark Coast in Sarasota for both of mine in spite of it being kind of a long trip. Check the FL hometown forum for details. |
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Originally Posted By dcs12345: Originally Posted By Freakinout: Freedom 22 can was a LOT of fun at the ranch Soon https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82036/IMG_3077_jpeg-3826444.JPG Hopefully https://media1.giphy.com/media/deamFJOd89iTk0xYpR/200.webp?cid=8dc8958cw7na528tblg6ecvp0u12cqyvwcl3j4m1e88xpn05&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g Finally….getting close Ordered 8/28 Shipped- looks like it updated this morning 9/14 Attached File |
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Originally Posted By dcs12345: Finally….getting close Ordered 8/28 Shipped- looks like it updated this morning 9/14 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82036/IMG_5507_jpeg-3827263.JPG good luck mine has been at that stage over 3 weeks now |
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Originally Posted By MannyRibera: Shot my Osprey freedom can. It might have started an addiction… Who knew the sound of freedom can be so suppressed? Good luck to my Kentucky brothers and sisters! Suppress the noise, not the freedom! First thing I put a can on was my 22/45. Addiction might be the wrong word but I decided right then and there that at least half a dozen other things in the safe were getting cans ASAP. And subsonic ammo. And I needed a threaded .22 lever gun for maximum quiet pew. And maybe a bigger caliber one... ...okay maybe addiction might be the right word...
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Originally Posted By M4ger: Who did you purchase from? Originally Posted By M4ger: Originally Posted By MannyRibera: Shot my Osprey freedom can. It might have started an addiction… Who knew the sound of freedom can be so suppressed? Good luck to my Kentucky brothers and sisters! Who did you purchase from? Silencer Shop shipped to Sling Point Firearms in Georgetown, North of Lexington. They only deal with Silencer Shop. No transfer fee, no GOA membership. Go to Silencer Shop’s website and search their dealership page. Filter to 4473 transfers and you with get a whole bunch of FFLs. Call the dealer ahead before ordering to confirm they will do the 44743, but everyone I called said they would. So it seems accurate. You also might have to drive a distance like I did. |
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Originally Posted By CZRider: DeSantis can't "let you have" FRTs because the anti-gun republicans of the Florida legislature colluded with democrats to pass an oppressively broad "bump stock ban" and DeSantis' predecessor and current senator Rick Scott signed it into law. The anti-gun republican legislature has been fighting to uphold their gun control ever since and GOA has been dragging them kicking and screaming through the courts to win us back our rights. There are maybe half a dozen shops doing 4473 cans last I knew. I've gone to Shark Coast in Sarasota for both of mine in spite of it being kind of a long trip. Check the FL hometown forum for details. Originally Posted By CZRider: Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: Fucking desantis wont let us have FRT's, and I do not know anyone in my area selling on 4473. I have heard rumors of rumors but nothing verified. DeSantis can't "let you have" FRTs because the anti-gun republicans of the Florida legislature colluded with democrats to pass an oppressively broad "bump stock ban" and DeSantis' predecessor and current senator Rick Scott signed it into law. The anti-gun republican legislature has been fighting to uphold their gun control ever since and GOA has been dragging them kicking and screaming through the courts to win us back our rights. There are maybe half a dozen shops doing 4473 cans last I knew. I've gone to Shark Coast in Sarasota for both of mine in spite of it being kind of a long trip. Check the FL hometown forum for details. I was on Shark Coast websote yesterday and it said no purchase w/o Federal Tax Stamp 
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Originally Posted By bmarshall1: I was on Shark Coast websote yesterday and it said no purchase w/o Federal Tax Stamp I don't think they've updated the website but they've been doing 4473 cans since the weekend after the stay lifted. I know this because I bought my first suppressor ever at Shark Coast the weekend after the stay lifted looked like they were selling at least as many cans as they were guns every time I've been in the store. I just showed proof of GOA membership, they put my member number on the 4473, and off I went.
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Originally Posted By MannyRibera: Silencer Shop shipped to Sling Point Firearms in Georgetown, North of Lexington. They only deal with Silencer Shop. No transfer fee, no GOA membership. Go to Silencer Shop’s website and search their dealership page. Filter to 4473 transfers and you with get a whole bunch of FFLs. Call the dealer ahead before ordering to confirm they will do the 44743, but everyone I called said they would. So it seems accurate. You also might have to drive a distance like I did. Originally Posted By MannyRibera: Originally Posted By M4ger: Originally Posted By MannyRibera: Shot my Osprey freedom can. It might have started an addiction… Who knew the sound of freedom can be so suppressed? Good luck to my Kentucky brothers and sisters! Who did you purchase from? Silencer Shop shipped to Sling Point Firearms in Georgetown, North of Lexington. They only deal with Silencer Shop. No transfer fee, no GOA membership. Go to Silencer Shop’s website and search their dealership page. Filter to 4473 transfers and you with get a whole bunch of FFLs. Call the dealer ahead before ordering to confirm they will do the 44743, but everyone I called said they would. So it seems accurate. You also might have to drive a distance like I did. Thank you. I'm not actively looking for another silencer right now, but there's a list forming in the HTF I just @'d you on. Any number of locals that can help shed some opportunities to bluegrass folks is always a good thing. |
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Originally Posted By CarlosC: Three weeks left for the federal government's deadline to file a notice of appeal and I'm thinking they're not going to, or they would have done so by now. I also see the ATF has yet to put out the guidance they've said is on the way. Coincidence? For those of you that are much smarter than I am, and there are plenty of you, is it possible the ATF is waiting for the deadline to pass before they issue the guidance to possibly avoid certain scenarios or even create irreversible ones beneficial to us? What would be the advantage in waiting until after Oct 5? I mean at that point, the injunction become law and much harder (but not impossible) for future admins to reverse, so is this the endgame? NFA dissolution? Otherwise we hobble along. Unless we have a Republican majority strong enough to change the law. |
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Originally Posted By willi3d: Mine has been sitting in “waiting for Form 3 approval” for over two weeks now. I haven’t even got to shipped yet. Not sure if it applies or not but the dealer I visited to pick mine up after 4 weeks commented that I must have jumped on it pretty fast. I said that yeah it was the next day. He said they were backordered into the thousands now. So... But it also took three weeks for mine and it was in-stock so brace yourself for a wait. He's also been mostly cleaned out of anything he had behind the counter of his own stock. |
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Originally Posted By ODA_564: The very best thing that could happen is that DOJ appeals to the 5th Circuit and loses. Which creates a circuit split and the possibility of nationwide injunctive relief for everyone. Otherwise we hobble along. Unless we have a Republican majority strong enough to change the law. Originally Posted By ODA_564: Originally Posted By CarlosC: Three weeks left for the federal government's deadline to file a notice of appeal and I'm thinking they're not going to, or they would have done so by now. I also see the ATF has yet to put out the guidance they've said is on the way. Coincidence? For those of you that are much smarter than I am, and there are plenty of you, is it possible the ATF is waiting for the deadline to pass before they issue the guidance to possibly avoid certain scenarios or even create irreversible ones beneficial to us? What would be the advantage in waiting until after Oct 5? I mean at that point, the injunction become law and much harder (but not impossible) for future admins to reverse, so is this the endgame? NFA dissolution? Otherwise we hobble along. Unless we have a Republican majority strong enough to change the law. Can't this also happen without an appeal if we get an non-favorable ruling in either Roberts v ATF (unlikely) or Brown v ATF? |
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Originally Posted By ODA_564: The very best thing that could happen is that DOJ appeals to the 5th Circuit and loses. Which creates a circuit split and the possibility of nationwide injunctive relief for everyone. Otherwise we hobble along. Unless we have a Republican majority strong enough to change the law. I seem to remember several other cases with near-identical reasoning being put up in several other jurisdictions not long after news came out about this decision, and it occurred to me that a good strategy would be to try and secure one "safe" if limited win and then bring cases in other areas to either incrementally expand knowing that you have that core protected group to fall back on or get a negative outcome that then drives a split to make it harder for a higher court to ignore. So, say, get the win as they did at the district level that nonetheless opens up a very easy path for expansion nationwide, then try the same approach in a mix of "friendly" and "hostile" jurisdictions to bring in some new parts of the map with favorable rulings and drive a split with unfavorable ones such that USSC is eventually forced to confront the issue. Add in the honestly easier challenge of "hey, these plaintiffs get relief but I'm not able to access it and that creates a two-tiered system" to force the scope of the injunction to be expanded since a judge in a different district doesn't have authority to countermand the injunction already in place (I think/hope) and you've got another crack in the NFA wall. All the while, you have thousands and thousands of "form none" items (thanks whoever you were in the other thread  ) getting out into circulation and demonstrating that there's a genuine demand for these items to be de-regulated and a genuine consequence if some authoritarian POS decides to try and put the boot back down. Maybe the lunatic DSA types or die-hard anti-gunners wouldn't lose any sleep putting hundreds of thousands to millions of people at risk of being declared felons for failure to pay the poll tax, but I think the majority of legislators and jurists would be apprehensive about it at least.
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Riflegear's Texas store in The Colony is on board! https://www.riflegear.com/t-faq.nfaupdate.aspx RifleGear Texas is now offering Form 4473 transfers for qualifying suppressor purchases! For eligible customers, this allows a suppressor to be transferred through the same general process used for a standard firearm purchase. No Form 4, fingerprint submission, passport photo, CLEO notification, or separate ATF approval period is required. Who Qualifies? Customers may qualify through either an eligible organization membership or the purchase of a qualifying suppressor. Qualifying Memberships You may qualify if you are a current member of: Gun Owners of America (GOA) Texas State Rifle Association (TSRA) The name on your membership must match the name on your valid Texas driver’s license or Texas identification card. Qualifying Suppressor Purchases Customers purchasing an in-stock suppressor manufactured by one of the following companies may also qualify, even without a GOA or TSRA membership: SilencerCo B&T USA This exemption is transaction-specific and applies only when the qualifying suppressor is purchased directly from RifleGear. Additional Eligibility Requirements All customers must: Be at least 21 years old Be a Texas resident Purchase the suppressor as an individual, not through a trust or other legal entity Be the actual purchaser and intended recipient Be legally eligible to purchase and possess a firearm Complete ATF Form 4473 and the required NICS background check Provide all required identification and supporting documentation RifleGear will verify eligibility before completing the transfer. Please contact us before visiting if you are unsure whether you or your purchase qualifies. What to Bring Please bring a valid Texas driver’s license or Texas identification card showing your current residential address. If qualifying through a GOA or TSRA membership, you must also provide proof of active membership. Additional government-issued documentation may be required if your identification does not show your current legal name or residential address. Names must match across your identification, membership documentation, and transaction paperwork. How the Transfer Works After you select a qualifying suppressor, our staff will review your eligibility and documentation. You will then complete RifleGear’s required acknowledgment, ATF Form 4473, and a NICS background check. Once all requirements have been met and the background check is approved, the suppressor may be transferred. Same-day completion may be possible, but it cannot be guaranteed. Important Limitations This process applies only to qualifying suppressor transactions. Trust purchases and transfers involving short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, machine guns, destructive devices, and other NFA items will continue through the applicable Form 4 process. This remains a developing area of law. RifleGear’s procedures may change in response to new court orders, federal guidance, or other legal developments. RifleGear may require a Form 4 or decline a transfer when eligibility cannot be confirmed. This information is provided for general informational purposes and is not legal advice. Customers are responsible for complying with all applicable laws governing the possession, transportation, use, and future transfer of suppressors. |
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Originally Posted By CarlosC: Three weeks left for the federal government's deadline to file a notice of appeal and I'm thinking they're not going to, or they would have done so by now. I also see the ATF has yet to put out the guidance they've said is on the way. Coincidence? For those of you that are much smarter than I am, and there are plenty of you, is it possible the ATF is waiting for the deadline to pass before they issue the guidance to possibly avoid certain scenarios or even create irreversible ones beneficial to us? What would be the advantage in waiting until after Oct 5? I mean at that point, the injunction become law and much harder (but not impossible) for future admins to reverse, so is this the endgame? NFA dissolution? If DOJ does not appeal, nothing changes. The injunction just stays in effect. The injunction doesn't change law, it only prevents DOJ/ATF from enforcing the laws against the plaintiffs. It'll remain in that status until something changes to affect it. |
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 Questions rise for selling gun suppressors, short-barreled rifles and shotguns |
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Jim's firearms in Baton Rouge is now saying they will sell suppressors on 4473 with proof of GOA membership. Jim's usually has a decent selection, and while their guns have been a little higher in the past it looks like their suppressor prices are a little more reasonable. This is especially true when compared to LA Firearms who was only other place I know of in town doing it on a 4473. It looks like LA Firearms may have taken the "You are asking how much!" crown from Jim's who had owned it for 20+ years. |