Great first post on a gun forum.   Could you provide specific examples and further explanation of this?

Are you sure you're not confusing OP for "lds respondents"? Since you're literally describing op's posts.

eta: also nothing in your post sounds anything resembling apostasy so.... why would anyone here consider you apostate?

Or, someone picked an odd thread to bring out and burn their sleeper account on.

It would have to be a troll, sleeper account, or such right?

Lord knows it couldn't actually be a good standing Mormon with a kind, objective heart and a valid point, right?

Perhaps the OP was sharp on some of his comments. Perhaps they could be taken as offensive to present members of the LDS church. Fair enough.


However, for all your and some of the other LDS members' criticisms of his lack of sincere desire to debate and be objective, many of you have done nothing more than dismiss every point he and others here have raised under the pretext of "apostasy, lies, hates the church" and on and on.

Heck, Daggertt is up to over 5 sequential posts of just solid complaining, dismissing, and attacking. In your case, the sum of your contributions has been, "That's not true. What are you asking? Oh yeah, that didn't happen ,and They don't count because they were apostates".

OP was obviously hurt by some events in the LDS church, and this was an opportunity to call him back or repair his faith. Instead, it turned into "circle the wagons and ridicule the apostate".

So when a fellow Mormon who doesn't often post decides to say what I just said, do you two take his constructive criticism to heart? Nah, just a troll, or another apostate.

No.  It wouldn't have to be at all.   However, it's odd someone joins a gun forum, doesn't post a thing for 4 months, then makes their first post (on a gun forum) a troll post in a religion forum.   I say troll post because he made general accusations and refused to clarify them for a response when asked.


What specifically would you, personally, like more information on?   If something was called a "lie, apostasy, or hates the church" it was because we believe it falls into that category.  I also saw most responses backed up with citations and examples.   I see this all the time.  People take things out of context, respond with half-quotes, or repeat the suppositions of others as though they were facts.   I dismiss things that aren't true.  I add context where it is missing.  Most of us have seen these same arguments tie and time again.  Most of us have researched them for ourselves.   Some of us have gone through these same faith issues.    When we dig into the actual data, add incomplete and missing data, and ponder it ourselves we reach different conclusions.  

The things you accuse us of could easily be said to you and the OP as well.   I was called an outright liar.  The only time I saw anyone called a liar here.  We were told our character is questionable because we reached different conclusions.  I approached this conversation honestly, factually, and calmly.   The same isn't true for the OP.    Then, suddenly, a White Knight joins the forum and his only post is to denounce his brethren with no context.   Yeah.  I'm comfortable being suspicious.   I hope I'm wrong and he comes back to discuss this in further detail.

ETA:  Obviously, I disagree with the summation of the thread you added, but have seen enough of your posts and received enough PMs from you to not further engage unless you have specifics you'd like to discuss.    Enjoy your Sabbath

Yeah...let's be honest...would it really matter?

It does to me.

Woah! I don't think I have ever sent you a pm, and if I have it wouldn't be more than one A LONG TIME AGO. Don't make me out to be a stalker, or yourself to be a victim. Everything I have to say to you or anyone else on this forum, I have no problem saying publicly, like a man does.

Enjoy your Sabbath

You as well. God Bless!

We try to be cool.

I meant what I said earlier.

Those of us (Latter-Day Saints or not) who believe that The Constitution is inspired by God, and it is a worthy and noble cause that it should be protected and defended-- we need to stand together.

None of us can stand for what is right and true on our own.

A thoughtful and reasoned post.

Thanks,

I loved Scouts and being Scoutmaster. We had a good time, and Scouts pretty much gave programs  and activities and advancements to work on once a week.

I think everyone in The Church was excited when we dropped Scouts but me. I had no idea what to do once we stopped working on "merit badges." I was lost. We went weeks playing frisbee in the gym trying to come up with activities that the boys could engage in.

We have a good system now and we have more direction from SLC now. I still enjoy it, it is still fun, and we had a bunch of activiteis planned that Covid ruined. We hiked the Nauvoo Martyrdom trail the summer after they dropped Scouts. It was a pretty good multi-day adventure for the boys, and took the place of "Scout camp." This last summer was a waste. But we are planning do some adventures this summer. The new younger boys want to go to Nauvoo and do what the older boys did.



Yeah, I am glad where I am at. You can have that...

I still help out with Primary Activities now and then.  They call me in when they want something outdoorsy.   I have two books that I would suggest for Primary or Young Men.   I'll tag them below.  

American Boy's Handy Book
The Dangerous Book for Boys

It is the program for young men in The Church.

Until like ~two years ago it was intertwined and aligned with Boy Scouts.

I was the Scoutmaster of our Ward up until The Church dropped Scouts. Now I have to come up with activities on my own.

We came up with a good method where the boys talk about their personal interests and what they want to learn about and we create lessons around that.

Plus we play a lot of sports and do fun things. Covid screwed things up.

We did Scouts religiously (no joke) until The Church dropped Scouts. I had three boys who had earned everything for Eagle, and a small number really close. Only one of them finished up on his own and got his Eagle. It weighed me down for a little while.

We got a good thing going for the boys now. And Scouts was going too far away from their moral code.

That is a wonderful thought.

I believe you are correct in the way you described it.

There are aspects of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that are easy for me to accept and believe in. Some things require little to no explanation I just believe. Some things I have to accept on faith. And that is where it becomes difficult to explain to folks who either disagree on "faith," (other religions) or need to be shown absolute-proof (non-believers).

I have had my answers to questions come in miracles from God. Answers to prayer. Faith promoting experiences. That is how I have faith and believe.

How do I explain that to someone else? Someone else with faith might understand, but disagree. Sometimes cite scripture where there is potential disagreement. Someone with no faith will say that I am making it up, since I can't prove my faith and beliefs outside the box of religious faith and beliefs.

Let's wrap this up before it degrades any further.