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Posted: 5/31/2021 8:40:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Wups delete page 8
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Posted: 5/31/2021 8:46:33 AM EDT
[#2]
the greatest deception in the history of the world
separating the sheep from the goats |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:10:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the greatest deception in the history of the world separating the sheep from the goats I’m curious, I know you are a very religious person, so what would convince you that these are aliens from another planet rather than demons? What if they landed on the White House lawn and showed us how their technology worked? |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:35:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't prove it's bullshit. The burden of proof is on those claiming that alien ships are flying around in our atmosphere. It's just like the bigfoot crap, I'll believe it when I see some credible evidence. But so far there is none. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your debunking attempts are weak and you're so passionate about proving "it's all bullshit", it makes your motives highly suspect. Why do you care so much if you believe it's nonsense? I can't prove it's bullshit. The burden of proof is on those claiming that alien ships are flying around in our atmosphere. It's just like the bigfoot crap, I'll believe it when I see some credible evidence. But so far there is none. Thermo, who are you to assign burden of proof, Mr. Anti-alien Activist? I am on the fence on this subject for now, but your adamant denials have done nothing to sway my opinion one way or another. We are suppose to accept your word against thousands worldwide who claim to be witnesses most of whom have more cred than you? You seem to have skin in the game. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:37:34 AM EDT
[#5]
We'll know this subject has truly gone mainstream when we hear the first calls for greater diversity among the "overwhelmingly white" field of Ufologists.
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:50:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thermo, who are you to assign burden of proof, Mr. Anti-alien Activist? I am on the fence on this subject for now, but your adamant denials have done nothing to sway my opinion one way or another. We are suppose to accept your word against thousands worldwide who claim to be witnesses most of whom have more cred than you? You seem to have skin in the game. The burden of proof is always on the claimant. Some folk don’t think logic be like it is, but it do. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:53:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The burden of proof is always on the claimant. Some folk don’t think logic be like it is, but it do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thermo, who are you to assign burden of proof, Mr. Anti-alien Activist? I am on the fence on this subject for now, but your adamant denials have done nothing to sway my opinion one way or another. We are suppose to accept your word against thousands worldwide who claim to be witnesses most of whom have more cred than you? You seem to have skin in the game. The burden of proof is always on the claimant. Some folk don’t think logic be like it is, but it do. You are correct, but there is a burden of proof here on the debunkers (rather than mere skeptics) also. To claim affirmatively that some object is a bird or a misidentified F-18 is a positive claim, requiring a burden of proof. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 10:19:43 AM EDT
[#8]
i think its nazis/nazi tech from ww2...
 seriously, does anyone expect you will get an honest answer from .gov? |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 10:19:58 AM EDT
[#9]
it will be an opportunity for a truly epic distraction...
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Posted: 5/31/2021 10:49:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are correct, but there is a burden of proof here on the debunkers (rather than mere skeptics) also. To claim affirmatively that some object is a bird or a misidentified F-18 is a positive claim, requiring a burden of proof. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thermo, who are you to assign burden of proof, Mr. Anti-alien Activist? I am on the fence on this subject for now, but your adamant denials have done nothing to sway my opinion one way or another. We are suppose to accept your word against thousands worldwide who claim to be witnesses most of whom have more cred than you? You seem to have skin in the game. The burden of proof is always on the claimant. Some folk don’t think logic be like it is, but it do. You are correct, but there is a burden of proof here on the debunkers (rather than mere skeptics) also. To claim affirmatively that some object is a bird or a misidentified F-18 is a positive claim, requiring a burden of proof. Both positions require faith. My argument against aliens in that they are beings from another planet/solar system stems from the bible. I'm pretty sure @9divdoc takes his position from a biblical worldview as well. I do believe there is other life from another place but it's spiritual and extradimensional, not extraterrestrial. There are accounts of these beings coming to Earth in our reality and creating havoc in the bible and the apocrypha. For these beings to land at the White House and share their technology would prove to me that they are in fact demons parading as aliens...because they did something similar in the book of Enoch. The bible says the evil ones would perform many miracles in the end times and that even the elect would have been deceived if it were possible. Their purpose in doing that would be to get as many people to believe the deception that they are gods/the genesis of all life. It's their only way to hurt the one true God; Steal and torture what He loves and cause them to blaspheme his holy name and desecrate themselves. Again, if you don't believe the bible there's no reason for you to not take these appearances at face value. In contrast, because of my relationship with Christ, I'm convinced there are no super technological aliens in the universe as we have historically defined them and there is nothing any demon or satan himself could do to convince me otherwise. I have been redeemed by Christ, he has called me by name and I am his. I already have a savior. The Lord is my shepherd, I have everything I need. I do not need demons or their "technology" or their lies. Behold, he stands at the door and knocks. Repent of your sins; Believe in Christ and be saved. Got a little enthusiastic there...I can't help it. I love The Lord. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 11:05:41 AM EDT
[#11]
I am forever hopeful. I have become weary of hunting North American wild game. As of today there is no license for hunting commies.
I'd be more than willing to hunt aliens. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 11:50:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just officials acknowledging that the briefing did in fact occur and while the issue is not classified it deals with classified matters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "In March, astrophysicist Eric W. Davis, who spent years working as a consultant for the Pentagon UFO program and is now a defense contractor, gave a classified briefing to the Defense Department on what he called “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.” In other words, spaceships." Was there ever any follow up to this statement? Just officials acknowledging that the briefing did in fact occur and while the issue is not classified it deals with classified matters. If the briefing deals with classified matters, then the briefing is classified. That is kinda how it works, unless someone is secretary of state and former first lady, then all you have to do is remove the classified label and use unclassified systems for transmission and storage and you are good to go. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 11:59:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Actually the witnesses are not saying WE don't know what it is, they are saying THEY the witness do not know what it is and the .mil is saying it is Unknown, which is nothing more than an official designation. Something can certainly be known what it is but the official designation is unknown. There is a difference. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:18:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:20:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It certainly could be mundane, but the eyewitness testimony suggests it is not. Dismissing decades of pilot accounts of seeing things in the air they can't explain seems illogical. How many stories does it take before you start to realize maybe they aren't ALL seeing something mundane? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. Why would that require the pilots to be morons? In the moment, the pilots don't have the time to spend hours analyzing and studying what they are looking at like people do after the fact. It seems perfectly natural for people to make mistakes. It seems equally strange to me that some would simply refuse to accept the possibility that it's something mundane within out current knowledge. It certainly could be mundane, but the eyewitness testimony suggests it is not. Dismissing decades of pilot accounts of seeing things in the air they can't explain seems illogical. How many stories does it take before you start to realize maybe they aren't ALL seeing something mundane? But we aren't talking about the decades and if you want to be complete in detail the thousands of years of strange aerial objects, we are talking about some video and narrative and interviews that don't pass the common sense test. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:24:55 PM EDT
[#16]
I have read in this thread that there is a member here that says he observed the tic tacs.
I have not seen those posts and can't find them, could someone provide a link to that. i would like to read it. thanks. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:31:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Gullible people consume propaganda.
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:33:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone.  Close Encounters of the Third Kind Air Traffic Control Scene with airport deleted scene included. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:34:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are an alien and you are reading this thread, be forewarned.... I am going to have your children's liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. And your head is going over my fireplace mantle. See, I could easily be drawn into the this next level bullshit too. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:35:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct, the "Go Fast" as it has apparently been dubbed... which is why I can't want for our friend to keep explaining to all of us how it all works. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: An actual observer has entered the chat.  You were present for the either the Go Fast or Gimbal incident, correct? Correct, the "Go Fast" as it has apparently been dubbed... which is why I can't want for our friend to keep explaining to all of us how it all works. Here you go, @Mach. See page 3 of this thread. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:41:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:42:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See, I could easily be drawn into the this next level bullshit too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you are an alien and you are reading this thread, be forewarned.... I am going to have your children's liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. And your head is going over my fireplace mantle. See, I could easily be drawn into the this next level bullshit too. I need a hunting partner.  
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:43:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct, the "Go Fast" as it has apparently been dubbed... which is why I can't want for our friend to keep explaining to all of us how it all works. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: An actual observer has entered the chat. You were present for the either the Go Fast or Gimbal incident, correct? Correct, the "Go Fast" as it has apparently been dubbed... which is why I can't want for our friend to keep explaining to all of us how it all works. @DimaChado Why was only crappy video released to the public. If there is more and better quality, why hasn't it been released? I can see not releasing capability, but the video i have seen is so far below what is available on the commercial market it is a joke. I am not familiar with the Go Fast video. Is there a link to it? Can you talk about what exactly you saw? Why haven't you talked about it? ETA: I found the video. Not poor quality on this one. I am not familiar with the FLIR display. Looks to me like a front aspect intercept to a slow stern conversion.. 200 kts Vc at 4 nm. 160 kts Vc at 3 nm, 32 degrees below the horizon from the jet. Did you have a radar on it? How fast was it going? I am assuming the IR is slaved to the radar, is it not? What altitude was it at? Looks like you are doing 256 kts. so to me it looks like it is going very slow. Your bank angle to track in the center with zero LOS is about 15-20 degrees. That all indicates it is slow as shit. Looks like it is in BLK hot mode, so since it is white it looks like it is cooler than the water. Am I wrong? why are you guys / those guys laughing and joking and surprised you / they got a lock on it if this is an unknown object. It sounds to me like these guys know exactly what it was. Looks like an aspect angle of about 120 degrees with 160 knots of closure with a look down of 34 degrees. Aircraft is doing 255 knots. That tells me this thing is very slow. How fast was it going? |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:44:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why was only crappy video released to the public. If there is more and better quality, why hasn't it been released? I am not familiar with the Go Fast video. Is there a link to it? Can you talk about what exactly you saw? Why haven't you talked about it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: An actual observer has entered the chat. You were present for the either the Go Fast or Gimbal incident, correct? Correct, the "Go Fast" as it has apparently been dubbed... which is why I can't want for our friend to keep explaining to all of us how it all works. Why was only crappy video released to the public. If there is more and better quality, why hasn't it been released? I am not familiar with the Go Fast video. Is there a link to it? Can you talk about what exactly you saw? Why haven't you talked about it?  UFO-Video "GOFAST" |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:45:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We'll know this subject has truly gone mainstream when we hear the first calls for greater diversity among the "overwhelmingly white" field of Ufologists. Sad but true |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:46:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:47:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here you go, @Mach. See page 3 of this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: An actual observer has entered the chat. You were present for the either the Go Fast or Gimbal incident, correct? Correct, the "Go Fast" as it has apparently been dubbed... which is why I can't want for our friend to keep explaining to all of us how it all works. Here you go, @Mach. See page 3 of this thread. Thanks, I missed that post or over looked it. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:55:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. If you didn't sign an NDA, if it isn't classified, if it isn't marked "FOUO", if no regulation prohibits you from talking about it, if nobody ordered you to never talk about it, what is the problem, exactly? |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 12:59:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gullible people consume propaganda. Stupid people can't recognize information patterns where truth gets leaked. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 1:04:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stupid people can't recognize information patterns where truth gets leaked. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gullible people consume propaganda. Stupid people can't recognize information patterns where truth gets leaked. Not to mention that the more information we get about this, the more credible it looks. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 1:15:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: An actual observer has entered the chat. You were present for the either the Go Fast or Gimbal incident, correct? Correct, the "Go Fast" as it has apparently been dubbed... which is why I can't want for our friend to keep explaining to all of us how it all works. Why was only crappy video released to the public. If there is more and better quality, why hasn't it been released? I am not familiar with the Go Fast video. Is there a link to it? Can you talk about what exactly you saw? Why haven't you talked about it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pRWXpxm8Lssee the rest of my comments I added |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 1:22:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you didn't sign an NDA, if it isn't classified, if it isn't marked "FOUO", if no regulation prohibits you from talking about it, if nobody ordered you to never talk about it, what is the problem, exactly? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. If you didn't sign an NDA, if it isn't classified, if it isn't marked "FOUO", if no regulation prohibits you from talking about it, if nobody ordered you to never talk about it, what is the problem, exactly? because referencing what you did and what you saw and using your previous position as a Commander in the US Navy to go on national television isn't done. Maybe I am just old school. Just about anything operational is at least sensitive info. When I was in, our HUD and Radar Displays were classified and still are. even if the navy released the display and video, going on national TV and discussing it and referencing it is still not done. I find it hard to believe that the FLIR video of an F18 is not classified, yet is was released and former F18 pilots are talking about it on national TV. I find it very unusual and would expect they would not do it without being told to or at least having gotten permission to. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 1:30:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: because referencing what you did and what you saw and using your previous position as a Commander in the US Navy to go on national television isn't done. Maybe I am just old school. Just about anything operational is at least sensitive info. When I was in, our HUD and Radar Displays were classified and still are. even if the navy released the display and video, going on national TV and discussing it and referencing it is still not done. I find it hard to believe that the FLIR video of an F18 is not classified, yet is was released and former F18 pilots are talking about it on national TV. I find it very unusual and would expect they would not do it without being told to or at least having gotten permission to. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. If you didn't sign an NDA, if it isn't classified, if it isn't marked "FOUO", if no regulation prohibits you from talking about it, if nobody ordered you to never talk about it, what is the problem, exactly? because referencing what you did and what you saw and using your previous position as a Commander in the US Navy to go on national television isn't done. Maybe I am just old school. Just about anything operational is at least sensitive info. When I was in, our HUD and Radar Displays were classified and still are. even if the navy released the display and video, going on national TV and discussing it and referencing it is still not done. I find it hard to believe that the FLIR video of an F18 is not classified, yet is was released and former F18 pilots are talking about it on national TV. I find it very unusual and would expect they would not do it without being told to or at least having gotten permission to. Dude, you just confirmed the fuck out of my point. The problem you have with this is that it violates a taboo! |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 1:50:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude, you just confirmed the fuck out of my point. The problem you have with this is that it violates a taboo! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. If you didn't sign an NDA, if it isn't classified, if it isn't marked "FOUO", if no regulation prohibits you from talking about it, if nobody ordered you to never talk about it, what is the problem, exactly? because referencing what you did and what you saw and using your previous position as a Commander in the US Navy to go on national television isn't done. Maybe I am just old school. Just about anything operational is at least sensitive info. When I was in, our HUD and Radar Displays were classified and still are. even if the navy released the display and video, going on national TV and discussing it and referencing it is still not done. I find it hard to believe that the FLIR video of an F18 is not classified, yet is was released and former F18 pilots are talking about it on national TV. I find it very unusual and would expect they would not do it without being told to or at least having gotten permission to. Dude, you just confirmed the fuck out of my point. The problem you have with this is that it violates a taboo! nope, you missed my point, entirely. military information security and professionalism is not a taboo, it is a duty. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 2:05:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. I would love it if you and all of the other military pilots on here had a thread in the UFO subforum to discuss these releases and interviews. It’s fantastic to get the comments on whats right and wrong on all of this. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 2:08:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: nope, you missed my point, entirely. military information security and professionalism is not a taboo, it is a duty. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. If you didn't sign an NDA, if it isn't classified, if it isn't marked "FOUO", if no regulation prohibits you from talking about it, if nobody ordered you to never talk about it, what is the problem, exactly? because referencing what you did and what you saw and using your previous position as a Commander in the US Navy to go on national television isn't done. Maybe I am just old school. Just about anything operational is at least sensitive info. When I was in, our HUD and Radar Displays were classified and still are. even if the navy released the display and video, going on national TV and discussing it and referencing it is still not done. I find it hard to believe that the FLIR video of an F18 is not classified, yet is was released and former F18 pilots are talking about it on national TV. I find it very unusual and would expect they would not do it without being told to or at least having gotten permission to. Dude, you just confirmed the fuck out of my point. The problem you have with this is that it violates a taboo! nope, you missed my point, entirely. military information security and professionalism is not a taboo, it is a duty. Six of one, half dozen of another. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 2:08:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would love it if you and the other military pilots on here had a thread in the UFO subforum to discuss these releases and interviews. (One of our members filmed one of these major releases.) It’s fantastic to get the comments on whats right and wrong on all of this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. I would love it if you and the other military pilots on here had a thread in the UFO subforum to discuss these releases and interviews. (One of our members filmed one of these major releases.) It’s fantastic to get the comments on whats right and wrong on all of this. I sure would like for that member to lay it all out and give lots of detail. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 2:09:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I sure would like for that member to lay it all out and give lots of detail. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. I would love it if you and the other military pilots on here had a thread in the UFO subforum to discuss these releases and interviews. (One of our members filmed one of these major releases.) It’s fantastic to get the comments on whats right and wrong on all of this. I sure would like for that member to lay it all out and give lots of detail. Me too. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 2:09:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Six of one, half dozen of another. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. If you didn't sign an NDA, if it isn't classified, if it isn't marked "FOUO", if no regulation prohibits you from talking about it, if nobody ordered you to never talk about it, what is the problem, exactly? because referencing what you did and what you saw and using your previous position as a Commander in the US Navy to go on national television isn't done. Maybe I am just old school. Just about anything operational is at least sensitive info. When I was in, our HUD and Radar Displays were classified and still are. even if the navy released the display and video, going on national TV and discussing it and referencing it is still not done. I find it hard to believe that the FLIR video of an F18 is not classified, yet is was released and former F18 pilots are talking about it on national TV. I find it very unusual and would expect they would not do it without being told to or at least having gotten permission to. Dude, you just confirmed the fuck out of my point. The problem you have with this is that it violates a taboo! nope, you missed my point, entirely. military information security and professionalism is not a taboo, it is a duty. Six of one, half dozen of another. a man without integrity, can't be trusted with anything |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 2:13:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: a man without integrity, can't be trusted with anything Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The naysayers don't have evidence that it's a fake story, aside from weak debunking attempts, so we're all in the same boat. All we can do is wait and see. That's not really how it works. Logically, one can't prove a negative. Thus, logically, without the liar admitting the lie, a debunker's tools are limited to providing alternatives that are more verisimilitudinous that the fantastic claim. It is a canard that the the debunker be directed to prove a claim false. To reiterate, the claimant has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. There are videos with several qualified witnesses claiming "we don't know what this is". The debunkers are saying "oh, it's obviously this" based on the limited evidence that has been released. That's my point. The debunkers are debunking based on extremely limited info instead of admitting they also don't know. Debunker don't normally say what something "is". They don't have any more clue than anyone else. Consider the video of triangular UFOs taken by a handheld camera through some nigh vision system. It's often stated as fact that the objects are triangular, while there are common and well understood causes for out of focus point light sources to appear triangular through a triangular aperture, called "Bokeh". Or the Gyro video. It's claimed the object is rotating, while there are other explanations for why it would appear to be rotating, such as the camera rotating. Or with the Gofast video, where it's stated the object is moving at high speed, but when you consider the aircraft speed, altitude, the camera angle relative to the aircraft, the range to target, and the bank angle. It's in fact provably moving at only some tens of knots. It's not that Debunkers know or claim to know what these objects are. It's that they don't believe that the videos are showing any evidence of some sort of advanced technology that others claim they are evidence of. I'm so glad you used the GoFast video as an example. One of the aviators present for that event is a member here and he has stated that you debunkers claiming to know what HE saw need to stop. Despite what you're saying, multiple debunkers are trying to claim the videos show birds, balloons, other normal aircraft, smudges on the lens, and all sorts of other mundane shit that would require the pilots involved to be morons if they're making claims about unbelievable maneuvers and such. Taking the videos and the accounts together, it's a fascinating topic that can't be easily brushed aside unless you're simply refusing to accept the possibility of something that's outside our current knowledge. No actually some debunkers like myself are claiming they are not telling the entire truth and are part of an official disinformation campaign. Don't show me an out of focus pic of something at 30,000 feet and tell me it is very mysterious could be a spaceship from another world when it has the exact same shape as a common kid's mylar balloon when I have personally seen kid's mylar balloons at that altitude. Don't show me out of focus very low detail and pixelated FLIR video and tell me it is a mysterious machine from outer space when I have a REAPIR and have better Thermal capability that the US Navy is showing me while making outrageous claims. Don't tell me current, former, and retired Navy personnel that were in sensitive positions are going on national television making wild claims about what they saw while doing their sensitive jobs while hardly able to keep a straight face on camera when I know that if they were doing that without permission, there would be personnel on their doorstep pretty quick. tell me when the last time that happened. Don't tell me navy fighter pilots are tasked to investigate strange areal objects not far from a carrier task force and then release the video with audio of them on target of unknown aerial vehicles and they are laughing, bantering back and forth with no comm back to command and control of what they see or what their status is , when I have done a lot of air defense alert scrambles on unknown aircraft and it is all serious business and constant comm back to command and control on what is being observed and status of the mission. So either they knew what they were looking at and the narrative is bullshit or navy pilots and WSOs are some of the most undisciplined and unprofessional off the wall military fighter pilots I have ever witnessed and their command and control were incompetent and didn't care about what these unknown objects were doing or if they were a threat to the fleet or not, so you can add the command and control of the carrier task force to the list of undisciplined and unprofessional misfits too. My guess is it is because everybody knew ahead of time exactly what they were and why they were there and the pilots and the command and control were completely unconcerned and are very good at their jobs. You're denying the massive taboo against even taking UFOs seriously in a professional capacity, let alone actually saying you saw one. It seems as though the folks involved in these incidents talked about in them in a serious capacity, reported them to their immediate superiors, etc. At some point though, someone in the chain of command would have to go to a superior who was not there, and did not see all of this shit and say "Sir, we legit saw fucking UFOs flying over the carrier group." Who is going to want to stick their neck out there like that? Military officers in my experience, are careerist and conformist to the bone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRdt7qkSW4yet they are talking about it on national television without authorization? you kinda proved my point. i don't buy it. They are no longer active duty, and the information isn't classified. ETA: In addition, the taboo has weakened dramatically. It no longer makes you a social misfit to say you saw a UFO. no longer active duty doesn't matter. Just because it may not be classified, doesn't mean you can talk about it on national television and identify what you used to do for the .mil. If you didn't sign an NDA, if it isn't classified, if it isn't marked "FOUO", if no regulation prohibits you from talking about it, if nobody ordered you to never talk about it, what is the problem, exactly? because referencing what you did and what you saw and using your previous position as a Commander in the US Navy to go on national television isn't done. Maybe I am just old school. Just about anything operational is at least sensitive info. When I was in, our HUD and Radar Displays were classified and still are. even if the navy released the display and video, going on national TV and discussing it and referencing it is still not done. I find it hard to believe that the FLIR video of an F18 is not classified, yet is was released and former F18 pilots are talking about it on national TV. I find it very unusual and would expect they would not do it without being told to or at least having gotten permission to. Dude, you just confirmed the fuck out of my point. The problem you have with this is that it violates a taboo! nope, you missed my point, entirely. military information security and professionalism is not a taboo, it is a duty. Six of one, half dozen of another. a man without integrity, can't be trusted with anything It’s pretty weird that you’ve twisted not revealing potential literal intelligent extraterrestrial life to the public into a matter of “integrity” lol. Fucking aliens are a bigger deal and a bigger duty than your nebulous old school devotion to not talking to the media about how you used to fly a plane for Uncle Sam lol. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 2:15:32 PM EDT
[#42]
DimaChado talks about it here a bit,
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Who-has-had-close-up-UFO-encounters-/192-2452390/#i92770728 |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 5:16:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Reread my comments again slowly and you might find that I made no claims and offered no opinion on the subject.
As another poster on this thread alluded, a claim whether in support or denial should be subject to Thermo's Law. Reading and comprehension skills be like dey is, too! |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 5:18:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Could be Antarctica Air Patrol.
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Posted: 5/31/2021 6:25:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brennan lied about being a communist to get into the CIA, I wouldn’t trust anything he says. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Brennan is an alternate form of life Brennan lied about being a communist to get into the CIA, I wouldn’t trust anything he says. He actually admitted to voting for Communists at his initial interview, and was still accepted. The swamp runs deep, for many decades now. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:00:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the greatest deception in the history of the world separating the sheep from the goats ever read a book called "we all fall down"? that was the premise - the devil came in the guise of ET and the antichrist was established... that book made "the road" seem like mary poppins in comparison... 
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:51:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ever read a book called "we all fall down"? that was the premise - the devil came in the guise of ET and the antichrist was established... that book made "the road" seem like mary poppins in comparison... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: the greatest deception in the history of the world separating the sheep from the goats ever read a book called "we all fall down"? that was the premise - the devil came in the guise of ET and the antichrist was established... that book made "the road" seem like mary poppins in comparison... @heron163 Revelations doesn't exactly sugarcoat the reality of what's going to happen either...Events worse than anything that's happened in all of human history. I know the recommendation wasn't for me, but I'm a sucker for a good apocalyptic story. I'll give "we all fall down" a read. ETA: Author? Lots of books with that title. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:57:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the greatest deception in the history of the world separating the sheep from the goats They need some kind of excuse for the rapture that doesn’t involve admitting that the gospel is real, and the wrath of God is incoming. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 9:58:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reread my comments again slowly and you might find that I made no claims and offered no opinion on the subject. As another poster on this thread alluded, a claim whether in support or denial should be subject to Thermo's Law. Reading and comprehension skills be like dey is, too! The fact remains, the claimant has the burden of proof. Which answers the question you asked. The rest is superfluous noise. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 10:14:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ever read a book called "we all fall down"? that was the premise - the devil came in the guise of ET and the antichrist was established... that book made "the road" seem like mary poppins in comparison... Who wrote it? I can’t find it, and it sounds interesting. |
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