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Posted: 5/9/2019 9:40:09 AM EDT
Does anyone know why a person would be given an extra one day delay (4 days) on picking up one's firearms?

Background.  I have always gone on delay, ever since this whole NICS delay BS started.  It has always been, the day you do your 4473 does not count, weekends and holidays do not count, and you have to wait three days and if the NICS does not come back denied, you pick up your firearm on day 4.  Well, day four rolled around today and when I went to pick it up, the ATFE/NICS print out now says I cannot pick it up until day 5.  
4473 done on Friday, May 3.  Day does not count.
Saturday, May 4.  Does not count.
Sunday, May 5.  Does not count.
Monday, May 6.  Day 1.
Tuesday, May 7.  Day 2.
Wednesday, May 8.  Day 3.
Pick up on May 9th, right?
No, the ATFE/NICS print out today says I cannot pick it up until Friday, May 10th and clearly states it was filed on May 3?

My state does not have an added background check which would have caused the added delay and allows persons on delay to pick up on day 4, even if the NICS/ATFE report has not come back approved or denied, which it never does.

Anyone know why this would happen, an extra day added, or is this just more NICS/ATFE fuckery that does not inconvenience honest people?  No, it's not the added day that has me miffed per se, it's the principle of the situation.  How can they single out a person willy-nilly to add an extra day, or two, or ten?   Do they have that prerogative? Have I been under a wrong impression for over 20 years that after 3 days I can pick up on day 4 automatically?

And just to clarify, I have tried to get a PIN and the ATFE will not issue me one because my "record" is only a half dozen letters of alphabet soup (over 40 years ago) with no explanation to the specifics to what are the details of the “crime.”  I have held a C&R FFL for over 20 years and many Form 1s, but cannot get a PIN and always, forever and ever, go on delay.
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 8:29:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Does anyone know why a person would be given an extra one day delay (4 days) on picking up one's firearms?
View Quote

<---FFL
It's possible for the delay to be longer than the "three business days beginning the next business day"...….if there is a state holiday.


Background.  I have always gone on delay, ever since this whole NICS delay BS started.  It has always been, the day you do your 4473 does not count, weekends and holidays do not count, and you have to wait three days and if the NICS does not come back denied, you pick up your firearm on day 4.  Well, day four rolled around today and when I went to pick it up, the ATFE/NICS print out now says I cannot pick it up until day 5.  
4473 done on Friday, May 3.  Day does not count.
Saturday, May 4.  Does not count.
Sunday, May 5.  Does not count.
Monday, May 6.  Day 1.
Tuesday, May 7.  Day 2.
Wednesday, May 8.  Day 3.
Pick up on May 9th, right?
View Quote
FBI NICS will tell your dealer what date the firearm may be transferred when they tell him your transaction is delayed.

No, the ATFE/NICS print out today says I cannot pick it up until Friday, May 10th and clearly states it was filed on May 3?
View Quote
ATF has nothing to do with NICS or your background check, that's the responsibility of the FBI.
I've been in business ten and a half years and have never heard of a "NICS printout".


My state does not have an added background check which would have caused the added delay and allows persons on delay to pick up on day 4, even if the NICS/ATFE report has not come back approved or denied, which it never does.
View Quote
Some NICS transactions never get a "proceed". The dealer simply marks Question 19.d "No response was provided within three business days". The Brady Law does not prohibit the dealer from transferring the firearm, but also does not require him to transfer.

Anyone know why this would happen, an extra day added, or is this just more NICS/ATFE fuckery that does not inconvenience honest people?  No, it's not the added day that has me miffed per se, it's the principle of the situation.  How can they single out a person willy-nilly to add an extra day, or two, or ten?   Do they have that prerogative? Have I been under a wrong impression for over 20 years that after 3 days I can pick up on day 4 automatically?
View Quote
Did your dealer tell you the date when he told you that you were delayed? That date doesn't change from the day your NICS check was run.

And just to clarify, I have tried to get a PIN and the ATFE will not issue me one because my "record" is only a half dozen letters of alphabet soup (over 40 years ago) with no explanation to the specifics to what are the details of the “crime.”  I have held a C&R FFL for over 20 years and many Form 1s, but cannot get a PIN and always, forever and ever, go on delay.
View Quote
That may be your problem. ATF doesn't issue a UPIN, the FBI does.
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 9:20:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes, I know it’s the FBI and NICS and not the ATFE, I typed it wrong and didn’t feel like changing it.  Who does it is not the crux of the question.

The printout I mentioned was the initial response to the NICS check done on the third. I guess print out may not be the right word but a print of the screen on the computer when the delay response came back.  The FFL prints out the response and keeps it with the 4473 until the firearm is picked up.

I have done so many NICS checks that I don’t wait around anymore.  I fill out the 4473 and leave, I know what’s going to happen.  It so happened that they, the FFL could not get into the NICS site to run the check at the time I did it so I didn’t stick around.  I called later to make sure they didn’t forget to run it and they said they had and I was on delay.  No surprise there.  I did not ask when I could pick it up, that’s on me, and they did not tell me it was going to be longer than usual, that’s on them I guess (the FFL).  It came back delayed on May third as usual, no state holidays or anything like that, and the delay response did say I could pick it up on the 10th but I did no see it at that time.  I “assumed” I could pick it up on the 9th as I have many times before, ever since NICS checks began.  So that assumption is on me, what miffed me is they put it on a 4 day delay instead of the normal three days, in spite of everything I have read on the ATFE’s web site, FAQs, and publications.  Being a C&R holder I have all the publications, print, CD, and digital downloads all FFLs have.  Damned if I can find a reason for an extra day, other than my bad luck.

My question is, why the extra day, and has anyone heard of people having extra days added when there is no underlying reason for additional days according to their own guidelines?
Link Posted: 5/10/2019 11:34:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yes, I know it’s the FBI and NICS and not the ATFE, I typed it wrong and didn’t feel like changing it.  Who does it is not the crux of the question.
View Quote
Well, it does go to the crux of your problem getting an UPIN. In ten years I've never heard of anyone being refused a UPIN. I would revisit FBI NICS to open a Voluntary Appeal File.

Why four days instead of three?
Two possibilities:
1. Your dealer wasn't honest about when they ran your NICS check.
2. A state or local holiday in another jurisdiction. NICS is a name and descriptive information based system. It won't just return "Big-Bore", but "Big Bore", "Bigbore", Big Boor" etc. If any of those returns a hit that is a prohibited person then NICS will research the records in that jurisdiction.

The FBI is pretty clear on those three day delays, even providing this chart:https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/a-nics-delay
Link Posted: 5/10/2019 4:48:31 PM EDT
[#4]
You may be onto something.  I know the dealer is not at fault, I thought he might be also, but that screen shot/print out they showed me clearly said it had been submitted May 3.  The only thing I have been able to come up with is that it was primary election day on Tuesday (7th), but all state, county, and local offices were open so far as I know.   I know the DMV (state), the Post Office (federal), the bank, and the Library (county) were all open, but if even one was closed in the state, I GUESS it might have thrown a monkey wrench into the works.  I know "election day" is not specifically listed as a 'no count' day, but if there was a state office closed someplace, that may be the reason.  I kind of hope so because that would mean they were not just being jerks, but I sure would like an explanation.  I may have to write a VERY NICE letter to NICS to see if they would be willing to offer an explanation, but it will have to be so sweet it drips sugar.  Don't want to piss them off now do I?

I have tried three times to get that UPIN number, being rejected each time for the same reason, once in Virginia and twice where I live now.  I even provided all available information concerning my crime against humanity.  Each time they have said no because the alphabet soup was not specific enough for them to determine the exact details of the so called infraction, which occurred over 44 years ago.  Funny how that has not caused any problems with my professional licenses over three states, C&R, or my SBRs, but the UPIN?  Not going to happen.  I have not specifically appealed the 'no' decision since it was not worth the effort.  But if they are going to start increasing my delay days, next time 5, then 6... then I will have to look into that again.  After all, considering 'day of' and weekends and holidays are 'no count' days, it usually ends up being 6 to 7 day waits anyway it seems.  It's a PITA and since our state does not qualify for the CCW permit exemption, even my lifetime permit, being used in place of the NICS, then I guess I have to quit whining and just suck it up buttercup.  Makes me want to spit nails though.

By the way, thanks for taking the time to spit ball this with me.  Much appreciated.
Link Posted: 5/10/2019 5:49:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You may be onto something.  I know the dealer is not at fault, I thought he might be also, but that screen shot/print out they showed me clearly said it had been submitted May 3.  The only thing I have been able to come up with is that it was primary election day on Tuesday (7th), but all state, county, and local offices were open so far as I know.   I know the DMV (state), the Post Office (federal), the bank, and the Library (county) were all open, but if even one was closed in the state, I GUESS it might have thrown a monkey wrench into the works.  I know "election day" is not specifically listed as a 'no count' day, but if there was a state office closed someplace, that may be the reason.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You may be onto something.  I know the dealer is not at fault, I thought he might be also, but that screen shot/print out they showed me clearly said it had been submitted May 3.  The only thing I have been able to come up with is that it was primary election day on Tuesday (7th), but all state, county, and local offices were open so far as I know.   I know the DMV (state), the Post Office (federal), the bank, and the Library (county) were all open, but if even one was closed in the state, I GUESS it might have thrown a monkey wrench into the works.  I know "election day" is not specifically listed as a 'no count' day, but if there was a state office closed someplace, that may be the reason.
 
Remember....not just YOUR state, but any state that might have a record they need to view.

…. I may have to write a VERY NICE letter to NICS to see if they would be willing to offer an explanation, but it will have to be so sweet it drips sugar.  Don't want to piss them off now do I?  
Ask your dealer for your NICS Transaction Number (NTN).

Then follow these instructions: Voluntary Appeal Files


I have tried three times to get that UPIN number, being rejected each time for the same reason, once in Virginia and twice where I live now.  I even provided all available information concerning my crime against humanity.  Each time they have said no because the alphabet soup was not specific enough for them to determine the exact details of the so called infraction, which occurred over 44 years ago.  
What does that mean?
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