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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:41:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Since you asked OP, I do not want to hunt elephants at all. OP asks a question and then gets his panties in ball when some disagree with him.
 
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:42:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went on my first Safari in 2019. The only reason there are animals (including elephants) for people to hunt is because of sport hunting. Hunting gives value to those animals in the natives eyes. If they are more valuable to the natives alive, then they don't kill them. If they lose the value imparted by hunting, then nothing is stopping the people there from killing the animals themselves, as they have become nothing more then competition for their own livestock, or a nuisance destroying property. My guides saw that firsthand. I hunted on the border of SA and Botswana. They used to do quite a bit of hunting in Botswana until trophy hunting was banned there. Since it was banned, animal numbers have plummeted, while in SA where hunting is legal, animals have flourished. When hunting is banned, the only animals with value to the people, are the ones they own. Everything else is just competition. Very well stated. Most people on the other hand use emotion when they form a decision and understand jack shit about how sportsmen and women are some of the greatest conservationists in the world. Think about how much it costs to hunt in the U.S, let alone going exotic. duh. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:42:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if you bothered to read the original post I tried to avoid this stupidity but people like yourself can't help but virtue signal while also being totally wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I get the feeling OP opened this thread for the only reason so he could get to "educate" everyone who doesn't agree with him. If that makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:45:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I get the feeling OP opened this thread for the only reason so he could get to "educate" everyone who doesn't agree with him. If that makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:46:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do know that, but you're not hunting exotic species outside a high fence, and that's what ol' tex said he does. Yeah....no. There’s free range exotics on public land in TX. They draw for hunts every year. ETA: Which brings up a question. When do “exotics” quit being exotic? There’s free ranging “exotics” in TX and New Mexico with stable breeding populations. Some of those species may never range beyond west Texas or New Mexico because of habitat and climate and become common sights in other parts of the country, but we have native North American species that remain in limited areas that aren’t exotic or endangered. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:47:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the African elephant not an endangered species? No. Not in all parts of Africa. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:49:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel fine. I'm not the one trying to insult people while throwing out lies. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/114465/emitting-virtue-signal-npc-wireless-reee-1786776.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I get the feeling OP opened this thread for the only reason so he could get to "educate" everyone who doesn't agree with him. If that makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/114465/emitting-virtue-signal-npc-wireless-reee-1786776.JPG You mean the reference about getting your dick hard? Hardly an insult, I suggest growing a thicker skin, you'll need it in the savannah. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:49:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's obvious who has gone to a public school. I'm still chuckling at the statement of "hard hunting".  I don't hunt elephants for the simple reason of cost. Same thought process goes for any other African hunt. If anyone else wants to pony up the cash, feel free. That's why I like hunting in Texas. Lots of African plains game to be found and no taking out a loan to shoot the things.  I can get you a 7 day hunt with 7 critters, in a luxo bush camp, all inclusive, for less than the bullshit small preserve, Canned hunts in Texas. Just sayin'. If you have to have a McDonalds 20 Min. away, just say it.;) |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:50:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Reading Bell and other authors who hunted Africa it sounds like an adventure of a lifetime. I don't think being used as a club on a termite mound would be fun or being thrown through the air like a rag doll , or being tusked or ground under foot, but it's all part of the risk and why it would be a thrill to hunt Jumbo.
I bought a .375 H&H mag in 1995 for the hunt. I have easily over 200 rounds of ammo and haven't shot the rifle since about 1997. Weatherby Alaskan in .375 H&H magnum, with a Leopold 3X9 with quick detach scope mounts and open sights. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:51:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Admittedly I'm not up to speed on what is endangered and where....thanks for letting me know. He’s not entirely up to speed on it either. He skipped over my last comment with a map showing where populations live currently when it wasn’t that long ago they roamed much of the continent. Yes, they are overpopulated in certain areas but it’s not as widespread as he is acting like and it’s because he wants to justify something he wants to do. Just like mentioning the destructiveness of elephants as an excuse and then talking about the I importation of hippos into TX. He’s also not once countered that things such as ecotourism could bring in as much or more money to those areas, especially if the populations were able to become more widespread giving people more opportunities to see them. But when you have a weak argument that tends to happen. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:52:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's obvious who has gone to a public school. I'm still chuckling at the statement of "hard hunting". I don't hunt elephants for the simple reason of cost. Same thought process goes for any other African hunt. If anyone else wants to pony up the cash, feel free. That's why I like hunting in Texas. Lots of African plains game to be found and no taking out a loan to shoot the things. Seeing Oryx wandering around west Texas was pretty cool. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:54:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can get you a 7 day hunt with 7 critters, in a luxo bush, camp all inclusive, for less than the bullshit small preserve, Canned hunts in Texas. Just sayin'. If you have to have a McDonalds 20 Min. away, just say it.;) The nearest McD's in propably in Kerrville. 80 miles, although there is probably one in Del Rio, 90 miles. You guys really have no clue, do you. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:56:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Not in all parts of Africa. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is the African elephant not an endangered species? No. Not in all parts of Africa. Doesn't conservation status go by species, not habitat? |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:58:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's not entirely up to speed on it either. He skipped over my last comment with a map showing where populations live currently when it wasn't that long ago they roamed much of the continent. Yes, they are overpopulated in certain areas but it's not as widespread as he is acting like and it's because he wants to justify something he wants to do. Just like mentioning the destructiveness of elephants as an excuse and then talking about the I importation of hippos into TX. He's also not once countered that things such as ecotourism could bring in as much or more money to those areas, especially if the populations were able to become more widespread giving people more opportunities to see them. But when you have a weak argument that tends to happen. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:59:16 PM EDT
[#15]
I've stopped the hearts of a lot of critters for food, but ive never understood the trophy thing. All the trophies i have won went in the garbage, too
Different strokes. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:01:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't conservation status go by species, not habitat? https://www.worldwildlife.org/species/african-elephant |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:03:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seeing Oryx wandering around west Texas was pretty cool. Those are some beautiful animals |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:03:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The nearest McD's in propably in Kerrville. 80 miles, although there is probably one in Del Rio, 90 miles. You guys really have no clue, do you. Have "Hunted" Texas a couple times. It's largely an over priced Joke. I made my point, and you obviously get it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:03:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The nearest McD's in propably in Kerrville. 80 miles, although there is probably one in Del Rio, 90 miles. You guys really have no clue, do you. You’ll never get them to either. The McDonald’s in Ellisras South Africa where we were was about 10mins away. You just haven’t lived until you have a zebra and a sable in the back of the bakkie while ordering a Big Mac. 
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:09:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah....no. There’s free range exotics on public land in TX. They draw for hunts every year. ETA: Which brings up a question. When do “exotics” quit being exotic? There’s free ranging “exotics” in TX and New Mexico with stable breeding populations. Some of those species may never range beyond west Texas or New Mexico because of habitat and climate and become common sights in other parts of the country, but we have native North American species that remain in limited areas that aren’t exotic or endangered. I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for informing me like an adult. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:10:00 PM EDT
[#21]
I would in a heartbeat. Other than my own dogs there’s nothing on this planet I’d hesitate to shoot for a good reason. And sport hunting is a good reason.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:10:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't conservation status go by species, not habitat? African elephants are not classified as endangered. Hunting in certain regions is prohibited and not in others. The same thing is done in various parts of the US with different species. Wolves, gators, birds, mountain lions, deer, elk, moose, bison, sheep, etc. are all subject to hunting restrictions or prohibitions that vary even within the same state. Sand hill cranes are protected in FL and can’t be hunted where I live. I can shoot the shit out of them in Kansas. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:15:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are some beautiful animals I tried to figure out where to go to see some on my motorcycle ride out Phoenix last month, but I couldn’t come up with any good answers. I’m going to have to look into it further before my next excursion that way. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:19:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Man, what a rush! How about a human?!
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:21:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: African elephants are not classified as endangered. Hunting in certain regions is prohibited and not in others. The same thing is done in various parts of the US with different species. Wolves, gators, birds, mountain lions, deer, elk, moose, bison, sheep, etc. are all subject to hunting restrictions or prohibitions that vary even within the same state. Sand hill cranes are protected in FL and can’t be hunted where I live. I can shoot the shit out of them in Kansas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Doesn't conservation status go by species, not habitat? African elephants are not classified as endangered. Hunting in certain regions is prohibited and not in others. The same thing is done in various parts of the US with different species. Wolves, gators, birds, mountain lions, deer, elk, moose, bison, sheep, etc. are all subject to hunting restrictions or prohibitions that vary even within the same state. Sand hill cranes are protected in FL and can’t be hunted where I live. I can shoot the shit out of them in Kansas. Gotcha. My point was more of that elephants used to roam pretty much most of the sub-saharan continent, while now their habitat has been vastly reduced because of the local's population growth explosion. What you may see as an overpopulation problem, it might just mean locals expansion keeps on invading their habitats. Still stand by my point tho, I find killing for sport weird. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:25:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, what a rush! How about a human?! Are you equating human life to that of an animal? |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:35:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Nope, I'm kinda lazy in that I don't want to leave the US in order to go hunt an animal. Can it be shot here in America? Great, I'm all for it. My idea of vacation isn't going to Africa to hunt. Hell, I don't have enough time or energy to do all of the hunting I want to do in my own state every year. My bucket list is being able to hunt in Alaska. Right now though, I could go for a nap. A good 1-3 year nap.
 Doesn't bother me in the least if you want to shoot one, have at it. My primary purpose for hunting is to gather meat for my family, secondary is getting out in the woods and away from people. I doubt I could keep the meat from the elephant, or any of the game I shot on safari. I've shot more does/cows than I have bucks/bulls. I don't hunt for horns, I hunt to fill my freezer. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:38:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotcha. My point was more of that elephants used to roam pretty much most of the sub-saharan continent, while now their habitat has been vastly reduced because of the local's population growth explosion. What you may see as an overpopulation problem, it might just mean locals expansion keeps on invading their habitats. Still stand by my point tho, I find killing for sport weird. It’s only sport hunting if the animal doesn’t get used or needs to be culled. I’d eat the fuck out of an elephant or whatever else I shot over there, except the nasty ass baboons, hyenas, and the like. Killing something and taking the head, horns, hide or whatever home doesn’t mean it is sport hunting. I’ve killed a ton of deer and quite a few hogs. I’ve kept trophies from some of them, ate the meat of more of them and completely tossed the meat from others. Some of the hogs I’ve killed weren’t edible even after proper processing. I won’t eat a boar hog over about a 125 pounds or a sow over about 175 pounds down here. They just stink and taste foul. They still need killing and I don’t feel bad about it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:55:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their numbers are dwindling daily, not for me although I understand it. 100 elephants in 100 square miles works. 100 elephants in 50 square miles doesn't work. While elephant populations grow slowly, they do grow. If you cull that elephant population down to 50 to match the 50 square miles, you'll likely need to cull 2-3 every year to keep it at that level. What's the best animal to cull to maintain genetic diversity, health, and ability to quickly rebuild numbers if all of a sudden new lands are found? Old Bulls. What's the most desired type of elephant to hunt? Old Bulls. Legitimate hunting is not a threat to elephants. Less and less land is. Note, I don't expect people who are dirt poor living in grass huts to simply gift their lands to elephant habitat. If you care about elephants find a conservation group and donate some of your hard cash to it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:08:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Serious question. How do elephants taste? What is the meat like?
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:10:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, what a rush! How about a human?! |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:18:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some people don't like helping others. My son and I had three deer tags left over after we filled our freezer this year. We did our best to fill them... they get dropped off at the processor's, free of charge, never to be seen again. They get donated to Hunters Share The Harvest, and go to those who need the meat. Pretty much a local version of what happens with the meat in Africa. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you eat the meat is it ok to keep the trophy? What if you give the meat to a needy family instead of eating yourself? Just trying to make sure where your morality meter stands. Some people don't like helping others. My son and I had three deer tags left over after we filled our freezer this year. We did our best to fill them... they get dropped off at the processor's, free of charge, never to be seen again. They get donated to Hunters Share The Harvest, and go to those who need the meat. Pretty much a local version of what happens with the meat in Africa. Good for you.  Very few lockers in my area were taking donated deer this year. I share as much venison as I eat though. Got a couple co-workers who enjoy the meat but don't hunt. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:19:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serious question. How do elephants taste? What is the meat like? You couldn't tell it from beef. Shot a bull in Zimbabwe around 1997. The Shona trackers insisted that we eat his heart on the spot to get his magic. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:22:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried to figure out where to go to see some on my motorcycle ride out Phoenix last month, but I couldn’t come up with any good answers. I’m going to have to look into it further before my next excursion that way. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those are some beautiful animals I tried to figure out where to go to see some on my motorcycle ride out Phoenix last month, but I couldn’t come up with any good answers. I’m going to have to look into it further before my next excursion that way. I saw them off of 54 just north of El Paso. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:23:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a load of crap. Hunters are the worlds conservationists. That is just rationalizing killing for fun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: it all gets eaten... and sport hunting is the only reason these animals still exist in the wild. What a load of crap. Hunters are the worlds conservationists. That is just rationalizing killing for fun. Hunting adds "value" to animals, especially in poor countries. Without that value there is much less incentive to enforce anti poaching laws. That, and the animals most prized by hunters are old males past breeding age(the "biggest" ones). Remember the black giraffe the girl shot a couple years ago and got death threats for? That animal was past breeding age but still dominant. He had recently killed two younger males in territorial fights. Younger males looking to take over his territory and his females. So by leaving that non-breeding animal alive they were hurting the population more than killing him did. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:23:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, ok tex. The only hard thing about texas hunting is the atv drive to your elevated stand by a feeder. Oh, and opening the gate to the high fence enclosure that you're hunting in. Hunting hard means being out in the Wisconsin woods at 5am every day and hunting until dark, every day. Scouting on off days and in the summer. Not sitting in a heated stand, not road hunting (like so many "western hunters" do), not baiting (looking at you texas). Getting out to the middle of nowhere and walking several miles in and out each day, plus carrying the game out. Hunting in the mountains from dawn to dusk, walking back away from roads up steep hills, sometimes at very high elevation. Camping in the freezing ass cold and wind and subsisting on mountain house for a week. Packing a 200lb mule deer out over terrain that looks like a mine field of 300 pound legos. Spending the off season conditioning, shooting, conditioning, shooting, scouting, mapping, planning. < COC6 violation removed. Warning issued -- BB > lol... flatlanders gonna flatland. How much “western hunting” have you done? My bet is you wouldn’t make it through the first day of a Colorado archery elk hunt. lol road hunting... And I’ve hunted Africa too. No fences- Mozambique, Zambia, Tanzania. You are clueless... |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:24:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have "Hunted" Texas a couple times. It's largely an over priced Joke. I made my point, and you obviously get it. I pay $3600 a year for unrestricted hunting for three people on a private ranch my family has hunted since the early 50's. I went on something like 15 hunts in 2019 to include three weeks in December. (Christmas on the lease is a yearly thing for us) Several were combination trail rides/hunts. You are the typical trophy hunter that wanders in from out of state with a wad of cash. Of course your experience is different. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:26:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sooner do the Cape Buffalo.  I'm with ya on that one. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:29:50 PM EDT
[#39]
No, I'm not a coward with no balls who gets his rocks off killing large game because it makes him feel like a "real" man.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:31:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Coc#6
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:33:20 PM EDT
[#41]
coc6
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:44:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol... flatlanders gonna flatland. How much “western hunting” have you done? My bet is you wouldn’t make it through the first day of a Colorado archery elk hunt. lol road hunting... And I’ve hunted Africa too. No fences- Mozambique, Zambia, Tanzania. You are clueless... Wrong. You don't know much about the topography of Wisconsin do you? I'm not a "flatlander" any more than a Colorado resident. I've even muzzleloader hunted the apostle islands from a skiff. I've hunted Colorado 9 years. Backpacked in and camped every time, 3rd season - in the snow. Photo of a typical camp attached. You literally know nothing at all about me, why would you make such a stupid, ignorant assumption? And yes, I was making fun of road hunters (reading comprehension is key). The point, which went way over your head, is that it is possible to be big into hunting, and in fact, to have hunting and fishing be one of the main focuses of your life and not want to kill animals that you aren't going to eat or that aren't damaging your property. That doesn't make me "clueless", it just means that my moral values differ from yours. I'm not suggesting it be illegal, I just said I didn't think much of it. Bottom line - I've killed more deer/rabbits/pheasants/squirrels/etc. than I can count, and I or my family have eaten every single one. I love hunting but I do not get some perverse pleasure out of watching the light go out of something's eyes. I do it for food. That doesn't make me a pussy or a weakling, it just means that you and I view the world from different ethical viewpoints, which is fine. You can attack me for my morals all you want, but my morals have nothing to do with my fortitude or abilities.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:46:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:47:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I'm not a coward with no balls who gets his rocks off killing large game because it makes him feel like a "real" man. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:48:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Im kinda like William Munny, Ive killed pretty much everything that walks, flies, crawls, or swims, but an elephant isn't even on my list of wants. You do you and I wont have an ill word to say about it though. Personally, I don't want to kill something that smart unless it needs killing.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:58:31 PM EDT
[#46]
I'm interested in doing more hunting in order to fill my freezer. I'm not personally into trophy hunting and don't enjoy killing though so no elephant for me.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:58:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the African elephant not an endangered species? LOL Elephants have been in Africa for millions of years but now they are the problem, not exploding birth rates of the other native's population. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:59:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dwindling in some area's and over populated in others. They are very destructive animals and have to be managed. Sounds like people to me...can I say that? or is that off limits? 
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Posted: 1/19/2021 6:02:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Even if I had the means...it doesn’t interest me. No issues with it though.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 6:02:36 PM EDT
[#50]
I always wanted to kill a dolphin, wipe that goddamn smirk off his face.
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