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Posted: 9/20/2021 2:37:53 PM EDT
Its for a 10 month old border terrier.

We take him a lot of places and he is extremely "puppy". He's not an idiot, but can still be a maniac.

If he sees another dog - zoom.

He generally sticks with us at the ranch, but he still can't resist chasing cows and hogs.

He is on a lead when we walk him in the neighborhood, but we do a lot of boating and spending time in the woods.

It doesn't need gps, but I need:

Waterproof

Decent range

Beep

Buzz

Zap.

He's a 20 lbs dog, so I don't want to nuke him.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/20/2021 2:55:17 PM EDT
As funny as the name sounds, I went with a Mini Educator from E-Collar technologies.  

I watched a bunch of YouTube videos, and read several books before buying one, and this is what I settled on.

We’ve got a 10 month old half pit, half miscellaneous.  

It’s got vibrate, and I think it will tone. I never use either one.  It also has a light you can turn on remotely, which is awesome when we’re out late.  

One of the main reasons I chose this collar is the levels of stimulation go from 0-100.  His normal, working level is 4.  I can’t feel the shock when the collar is on my neck until about 7 or 8.  

Had I chosen a collar with levels from 0-10, the lowest option would be equivalent to a 10 on the mini-educator.  

At level 4, it’s more of a “tap on the shoulder” when used with voice commands. In other words, “hey dog, I know you’re watching that bird, but I want you to sit.”  

Of course, if he starts heading towards the road, I have the option of hitting the red button.  The red button can be set for an increase from his normal
Level.  Like a panic button. Normal level=4. Red button is +20.  It will get his attention.  
I’ve only used that twice.  He was headed towards the road and wasn’t responding to voice.  

The other time, he tried counter surfing.   As soon as his front paws hit the counter, I corrected him with the collar.  Now he thinks the devil lurks on the counter.  

I recommend  reading The Art of Training Your Dog: How to Gently Teach Good Behavior Using an E-Collar by the Monks of New Skete before just using the e-collar.  
Link Posted: 9/20/2021 2:59:32 PM EDT
I have a Tri Tronics and one been very happy with. Mine is a G3, but I'm sure they have something newer now. I've had this one for years. We did have to warranty the remote due to a faulty switch in the first year, and we've had to replace the charger a few times for the collars as it breaks where it bends, but otherwise it's been very solid.

It seems to meet all of your requirements. It beeps, and then has 6 levels of shocking. From almost nothing to very hard.

I honestly would have never believed how much easier this collar would have made training a dog. I'd never used one in the past, but a friend talked me into it and it's been great. If our dogs don't listen to a command we can just beep it and they listen 98% of the time now. If they still don't listen we can lightly shock them and they listen 100% of the time.
Link Posted: 9/20/2021 3:02:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2021 3:05:36 PM EDT by Keib]
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Originally Posted By rktman26:
As funny as the name sounds, I went with a Mini Educator from E-Collar technologies.  

I watched a bunch of YouTube videos, and read several books before buying one, and this is what I settled on.

We’ve got a 10 month old half pit, half miscellaneous.  

It’s got vibrate, and I think it will tone. I never use either one.  It also has a light you can turn on remotely, which is awesome when we’re out late.  

One of the main reasons I chose this collar is the levels of stimulation go from 0-100.  His normal, working level is 4.  I can’t feel the shock when the collar is on my neck until about 7 or 8.  

Had I chosen a collar with levels from 0-10, the lowest option would be equivalent to a 10 on the mini-educator.  

At level 4, it’s more of a “tap on the shoulder” when used with voice commands. In other words, “hey dog, I know you’re watching that bird, but I want you to sit.”  

eta: how long is that book? It's hard to make time to read longer titles these days.

Of course, if he starts heading towards the road, I have the option of hitting the red button.  The red button can be set for an increase from his normal
Level.  Like a panic button. Normal level=4. Red button is +20.  It will get his attention.  
I’ve only used that twice.  He was headed towards the road and wasn’t responding to voice.  

The other time, he tried counter surfing.   As soon as his front paws hit the counter, I corrected him with the collar.  Now he thinks the devil lurks on the counter.  

I recommend  reading The Art of Training Your Dog: How to Gently Teach Good Behavior Using an E-Collar by the Monks of New Skete before just using the e-collar.  
View Quote


Great post. Thanks for your time. All the other family dogs (dad's labs, brother's Catahoula) have collars and all they ever need after the initial training is the buzz. They are larger breeds of course, so having settings like yours sounds great. I'll read up on it. I think my biggest issue will be family consistency. Kids have a tendency to overdue things, so I'll limit it to me and my wife.
Link Posted: 9/20/2021 3:59:52 PM EDT
I used a Dogtra NCP 1900 for years with zero issues
Link Posted: 9/20/2021 4:32:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By slowr1der:
I have a Tri Tronics and one been very happy with. Mine is a G3, but I'm sure they have something newer now. I've had this one for years. We did have to warranty the remote due to a faulty switch in the first year, and we've had to replace the charger a few times for the collars as it breaks where it bends, but otherwise it's been very solid.

It seems to meet all of your requirements. It beeps, and then has 6 levels of shocking. From almost nothing to very hard.

I honestly would have never believed how much easier this collar would have made training a dog. I'd never used one in the past, but a friend talked me into it and it's been great. If our dogs don't listen to a command we can just beep it and they listen 98% of the time now. If they still don't listen we can lightly shock them and they listen 100% of the time.
View Quote

This.  I use the Garmin Sport Pro though.  10 month old Doberman whose never seen a dog who he isn't sure is his new best friend.  Immediately responds to a little zap when then "Come" doesn't compute...  Nobody is happy to a see a Doberman, puppy or not, running up to their dog, and I don't want him to do it uninvited, ever.  Problem solved :-)
Link Posted: 9/20/2021 4:42:38 PM EDT
A second endorsement for E-collar.

It works perfect for my GSD.  She is a great doggy.
Link Posted: 9/26/2021 4:17:35 PM EDT
I’ve been very happy with my Sport Dog field trainer model number 425S. I bought it five years ago and it’s still doing the job.
Link Posted: 9/26/2021 5:21:07 PM EDT
I went with the e collar. 2 day shipping is a lie!  
Link Posted: 9/27/2021 11:43:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keib:
I went with the e collar. 2 day shipping is a lie!  
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HA!

I've been pretty pleased with mine.  We're on 31 acres, and we've carved a "yard" of about 4 acres out of eastern NC pines and brush, and no fences.

It's nice to let him run around without a leash on, and not really worry about him heading towards the road. Normally he'll come running when called, but a yell and a tap on a low level works when he doesn't recall - and I've got the option of the "bonus" button when needed - I've only used it once.  

I went ahead and got the collar with the quick release buckle on it.  he doesn't wear the e-collar in the house, so I end up putting it on him four or five times a day - the quick release collar makes it easy to keep the same adjustment.  

If you're not super familiar with the training methods for e-collars, there's a bunch of good videos out there.  The older methods of waiting for the dog to make a mistake and hammering them for it have been replaced.  Basically, by using the stimulation on a very low level as an attention gainer, with the option to raise the level when needed to overcome distractions.  

Also, mine seems to keep a charge for almost two days - I try to remember to plug it in every night, but when I don't it's still good the next day.
Link Posted: 9/28/2021 8:57:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2021 8:59:31 AM EDT by Keib]
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Originally Posted By rktman26:


HA!

I've been pretty pleased with mine.  We're on 31 acres, and we've carved a "yard" of about 4 acres out of eastern NC pines and brush, and no fences.

It's nice to let him run around without a leash on, and not really worry about him heading towards the road. Normally he'll come running when called, but a yell and a tap on a low level works when he doesn't recall - and I've got the option of the "bonus" button when needed - I've only used it once.  

I went ahead and got the collar with the quick release buckle on it.  he doesn't wear the e-collar in the house, so I end up putting it on him four or five times a day - the quick release collar makes it easy to keep the same adjustment.  

If you're not super familiar with the training methods for e-collars, there's a bunch of good videos out there.  The older methods of waiting for the dog to make a mistake and hammering them for it have been replaced.  Basically, by using the stimulation on a very low level as an attention gainer, with the option to raise the level when needed to overcome distractions.  

Also, mine seems to keep a charge for almost two days - I try to remember to plug it in every night, but when I don't it's still good the next day.
View Quote


I made it yesterday. Yeah - I'm watching videos for a while before starting the training. I don't want to confuse the dog, so there will be some baby steps. I didn't check the range before purchasing (dumb I know). The only concern right now is that our ranch has a lot of dense, oak hammock. He hasn't "disappeared" yet, but his confidence is growing. My last border would go off with one of the labs. The border would kill an armadillo, and the lab would be his chirpa to return it to camp to impress us. His new best buddy is my brother's Catahoula, but that dog is trained fairly well and also sports a collar. Most of the collar use will be in open spaces. My 20 acres is largely pasture. The other use will be boating/beaches where he is likely to bolt to meet a new best bud. I'm relieved to learn that super low stimulation should be all that's needed, unless real urgency presents.

ETA: I tested my dad's labs' collars on my palm yesterday (invisible fence) and they hit like a truck. They do buzz first though, so I doubt they are ever getting lit up now. Unnecessary intensity though.
Link Posted: 9/28/2021 11:18:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keib:


I made it yesterday. Yeah - I'm watching videos for a while before starting the training. I don't want to confuse the dog, so there will be some baby steps. I didn't check the range before purchasing (dumb I know). The only concern right now is that our ranch has a lot of dense, oak hammock. He hasn't "disappeared" yet, but his confidence is growing. My last border would go off with one of the labs. The border would kill an armadillo, and the lab would be his chirpa to return it to camp to impress us. His new best buddy is my brother's Catahoula, but that dog is trained fairly well and also sports a collar. Most of the collar use will be in open spaces. My 20 acres is largely pasture. The other use will be boating/beaches where he is likely to bolt to meet a new best bud. I'm relieved to learn that super low stimulation should be all that's needed, unless real urgency presents.

ETA: I tested my dad's labs' collars on my palm yesterday (invisible fence) and they hit like a truck. They do buzz first though, so I doubt they are ever getting lit up now. Unnecessary intensity though.
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Originally Posted By Keib:
Originally Posted By rktman26:


HA!

I've been pretty pleased with mine.  We're on 31 acres, and we've carved a "yard" of about 4 acres out of eastern NC pines and brush, and no fences.

It's nice to let him run around without a leash on, and not really worry about him heading towards the road. Normally he'll come running when called, but a yell and a tap on a low level works when he doesn't recall - and I've got the option of the "bonus" button when needed - I've only used it once.  

I went ahead and got the collar with the quick release buckle on it.  he doesn't wear the e-collar in the house, so I end up putting it on him four or five times a day - the quick release collar makes it easy to keep the same adjustment.  

If you're not super familiar with the training methods for e-collars, there's a bunch of good videos out there.  The older methods of waiting for the dog to make a mistake and hammering them for it have been replaced.  Basically, by using the stimulation on a very low level as an attention gainer, with the option to raise the level when needed to overcome distractions.  

Also, mine seems to keep a charge for almost two days - I try to remember to plug it in every night, but when I don't it's still good the next day.


I made it yesterday. Yeah - I'm watching videos for a while before starting the training. I don't want to confuse the dog, so there will be some baby steps. I didn't check the range before purchasing (dumb I know). The only concern right now is that our ranch has a lot of dense, oak hammock. He hasn't "disappeared" yet, but his confidence is growing. My last border would go off with one of the labs. The border would kill an armadillo, and the lab would be his chirpa to return it to camp to impress us. His new best buddy is my brother's Catahoula, but that dog is trained fairly well and also sports a collar. Most of the collar use will be in open spaces. My 20 acres is largely pasture. The other use will be boating/beaches where he is likely to bolt to meet a new best bud. I'm relieved to learn that super low stimulation should be all that's needed, unless real urgency presents.

ETA: I tested my dad's labs' collars on my palm yesterday (invisible fence) and they hit like a truck. They do buzz first though, so I doubt they are ever getting lit up now. Unnecessary intensity though.



I want to say the claimed range is 3/4 mile which should be plenty.  

There are a lot of videos about e-collar use, and I think most of the newer schools of thought agree with using the e-collar at a very low level as an attention gainer.  The way I understand some trainers, a voice command, coupled with a simultaneous tap of the button makes the dog think your voice is what provides the stimulation.  And since there is no physical connection between you and the dog, like a leash, the dog thinks (rightfully so), that you can touch him from a long way away.  

One of the guys I watched a ton of videos before getting and using an e-collar was Larry Krohn.  You can tell he cares about the dogs he trains, and wants people to use e-collars responsibly.  



Link Posted: 10/1/2021 9:35:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By rktman26:



I want to say the claimed range is 3/4 mile which should be plenty.  

There are a lot of videos about e-collar use, and I think most of the newer schools of thought agree with using the e-collar at a very low level as an attention gainer.  The way I understand some trainers, a voice command, coupled with a simultaneous tap of the button makes the dog think your voice is what provides the stimulation.  And since there is no physical connection between you and the dog, like a leash, the dog thinks (rightfully so), that you can touch him from a long way away.  

One of the guys I watched a ton of videos before getting and using an e-collar was Larry Krohn.  You can tell he cares about the dogs he trains, and wants people to use e-collars responsibly.  



View Quote


I've been watching a number vids on the Upstate Canine Academy channel. He seems to know what he's doing, but would probably get more views if he didn't swear so much.

I like the invisible leash concept. Training begins this weekend with the simple stuff.
Link Posted: 10/1/2021 10:26:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2021 10:27:30 AM EDT by rktman26]
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Originally Posted By Keib:


I've been watching a number vids on the Upstate Canine Academy channel. He seems to know what he's doing, but would probably get more views if he didn't swear so much.

I like the invisible leash concept. Training begins this weekend with the simple stuff.
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Originally Posted By Keib:
Originally Posted By rktman26:



I want to say the claimed range is 3/4 mile which should be plenty.  

There are a lot of videos about e-collar use, and I think most of the newer schools of thought agree with using the e-collar at a very low level as an attention gainer.  The way I understand some trainers, a voice command, coupled with a simultaneous tap of the button makes the dog think your voice is what provides the stimulation.  And since there is no physical connection between you and the dog, like a leash, the dog thinks (rightfully so), that you can touch him from a long way away.  

One of the guys I watched a ton of videos before getting and using an e-collar was Larry Krohn.  You can tell he cares about the dogs he trains, and wants people to use e-collars responsibly.  





I've been watching a number vids on the Upstate Canine Academy channel. He seems to know what he's doing, but would probably get more views if he didn't swear so much.

I like the invisible leash concept. Training begins this weekend with the simple stuff.


I’ve watched a bunch of his videos as well.  I think his target market for viewers is a younger crowd than myself.  He’s a bit “hipster” for me, although I don’t think the information is bad.

I know there are a bunch of folks that are anti- electronic collar, but I love mine. I walk my property with my 10 month old puppy - without a leash.  If he gets distracted and doesn’t keep up, call his name and tap the button on 3, and here he comes- happy as the day is long.  

That same walk with a long line wouldn’t be near as enjoyable.  

Socks wants to wish you good luck with your training.  
Link Posted: 10/1/2021 10:31:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2021 10:34:06 AM EDT by Keib]
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Originally Posted By rktman26:


I’ve watched a bunch of his videos as well.  I think his target market for viewers is a younger crowd than myself.  He’s a bit “hipster” for me, although I don’t think the information is bad.

I know there are a bunch of folks that are anti- electronic collar, but I love mine. I walk my property with my 10 month old puppy - without a leash.  If he gets distracted and doesn’t keep up, call his name and tap the button on 3, and here he comes- happy as the day is long.  

That same walk with a long line wouldn’t be near as enjoyable.  

Socks wants to wish you good luck with your training.  
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148519/image-2113262.jpg
View Quote


Socks isn't showing up. Weird - Pics have been iffy this last week or so. Handsome dog!

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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/1/2021 10:34:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keib:


Socks isn't showing up.
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Originally Posted By Keib:
Originally Posted By rktman26:


I’ve watched a bunch of his videos as well.  I think his target market for viewers is a younger crowd than myself.  He’s a bit “hipster” for me, although I don’t think the information is bad.

I know there are a bunch of folks that are anti- electronic collar, but I love mine. I walk my property with my 10 month old puppy - without a leash.  If he gets distracted and doesn’t keep up, call his name and tap the button on 3, and here he comes- happy as the day is long.  

That same walk with a long line wouldn’t be near as enjoyable.  

Socks wants to wish you good luck with your training.  
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148519/image-2113262.jpg


Socks isn't showing up.


I tried like three times to post the photo from my phone, it didn't show for me either.  I grab the laptop to see if I can post it and it shows up now.

It may have been delayed for some reason.  

Link Posted: 10/1/2021 10:36:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keib:
Originally Posted By rktman26:


I’ve watched a bunch of his videos as well.  I think his target market for viewers is a younger crowd than myself.  He’s a bit “hipster” for me, although I don’t think the information is bad.

I know there are a bunch of folks that are anti- electronic collar, but I love mine. I walk my property with my 10 month old puppy - without a leash.  If he gets distracted and doesn’t keep up, call his name and tap the button on 3, and here he comes- happy as the day is long.  

That same walk with a long line wouldn’t be near as enjoyable.  

Socks wants to wish you good luck with your training.  
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148519/image-2113262.jpg


Socks isn't showing up. Weird - Pics have been iffy this last week or so. Handsome dog!

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/112839/Screenshot_20210920-160436_Gallery_jpg-2113272.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/112839/Screenshot_20210501-105555_Gallery_jpg-2113275.JPG


Thanks.  He's a ton of fun and fairly smart.  


Your two like like trouble
Link Posted: 10/2/2021 12:09:37 AM EDT
we train all our retrievers with Garmin's or DT's. I have several Garmin Pro 550's and Sport Pro's.

our group trains dozens of retrievers a year and I think all of us use Garmins. I've moved my DT's to dummy launcher controls.

Link Posted: 10/2/2021 8:53:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2021 9:00:17 AM EDT by Keib]
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Originally Posted By rktman26:


Thanks.  He's a ton of fun and fairly smart.  


Your two like like trouble
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Little guy is an idiot, hence the collar!

"That Brahman bull wants to be my best friend!"
"Look! There's a dog 700 yards away on the beach!"
"OH! That mastiff wants to wrestle!"

I set up the collar, but the "boost" confounds me. The ordinary stim is set to 5. I followed the procedure and set the boost to 15. During testing however, the transmitter is showing 22. Not that bad in my hand, but may be heavy for the little guy. I reset several times, and still 22.

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Link Posted: 10/2/2021 9:03:07 AM EDT
Dogtra or E-collar Technologies.
Link Posted: 10/3/2021 4:42:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dave_H:
Dogtra or E-collar Technologies.
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I went with the micro e-collar.

I *think* it went okay today. I spent a couple hours with him. All the vids intimated that level 5 was sufficient for most. I wasn't getting much reaction, so I bumped it. It's not too tight, but I've got good contact.

I raised the stim to 10, and even then he seemed a bit oblivious. I was doing a vocal call together with stim, praise and treat when he came. I wonder if the treat was more compelling than the stim though.

He's napping on the couch now. Out curiosity, I hit the stim and....nothing.

The boost did its job for sure. He was bolting for the neighbors ducks and that got cleared up quickly.
Link Posted: 10/3/2021 5:47:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keib:


I went with the micro e-collar.

I *think* it went okay today. I spent a couple hours with him. All the vids intimated that level 5 was sufficient for most. I wasn't getting much reaction, so I bumped it. It's not too tight, but I've got good contact.

I raised the stim to 10, and even then he seemed a bit oblivious. I was doing a vocal call together with stim, praise and treat when he came. I wonder if the treat was more compelling than the stim though.

He's napping on the couch now. Out curiosity, I hit the stim and....nothing.

The boost did its job for sure. He was bolting for the neighbors ducks and that got cleared up quickly.
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Originally Posted By Keib:
Originally Posted By Dave_H:
Dogtra or E-collar Technologies.


I went with the micro e-collar.

I *think* it went okay today. I spent a couple hours with him. All the vids intimated that level 5 was sufficient for most. I wasn't getting much reaction, so I bumped it. It's not too tight, but I've got good contact.

I raised the stim to 10, and even then he seemed a bit oblivious. I was doing a vocal call together with stim, praise and treat when he came. I wonder if the treat was more compelling than the stim though.

He's napping on the couch now. Out curiosity, I hit the stim and....nothing.

The boost did its job for sure. He was bolting for the neighbors ducks and that got cleared up quickly.


Most of the reading I did said to find his "working level" by putting it on, letting him settle, and hitting the button (while on a low level) while watching for a reaction. Any reaction.  Licking the lips, an eye twitch, turning of the head, a scratch - any type of reaction at all.  

If there's no reaction, turn it up a notch and repeat until you get a reaction.  When you do, turn it down a notch or two.  That's where you want it.

Remember, the stim is foreign to them.  On low levels it may be like an itch, or a bug crawling on your skin.  On another note, most of the stuff I saw said not to worry about what level is right for your dog - some dogs are more sensitive than others, and size doesn't really matter (Ha).  Big dogs often work on very low levels.  Socks' normal is 3-4.  If he's ignoring me, I'll crank it up to about 8.  12 will make him stop and start scratching at the collar.  

One thing I remember from somewhere - be careful about hammering them for something you don't want them to do.  You could make them very suspicious of something you didn't want.  

In other words, if you nailed them for jumping on someone - it may make them suspicious of that person, or people in general, rather than jumping on someone.
Link Posted: 10/15/2021 4:28:54 PM EDT
Just to update...he's a new dog! Still the playful pup, but stays on my hip when I want him to.

With a click of the mild stim in the house, he will come find me with a wagging tail. Good stuff.

I've only needed to boost him a few times and the momentary snapped him out of it.

Link Posted: 10/15/2021 9:45:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Keib:
Just to update...he's a new dog! Still the playful pup, but stays on my hip when I want him to.

With a click of the mild stim in the house, he will come find me with a wagging tail. Good stuff.

I've only needed to boost him a few times and the momentary snapped him out of it.

View Quote



That's awesome news.  

I keep Sock's e-collar on him pretty much anytime we go out in the yard as insurance.  He normally listens pretty well, but has been known to ignore me when he saw a deer out in the back part of the yard.  The boost button cuts through that distraction.
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