Electrical question - grounding meter socket and main breaker box - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electrical question - grounding meter socket and main breaker box

Posted: 9/18/2020 11:41:29 AM EDT

My current main breaker panel has a bare copper wire, #4 size I believe, connected to the cold water line of the house for grounding. The meter socket currently has no ground at all. The meter socket and main panel sit back to back, one on the exterior side of the wall, the other in the garage.

I plan on buying 2 ground rods and running a wire into the meter socket for its new ground. My question is, should I also wire the breaker box to connect to that same ground wire that will be run into the meter socket?

Let me link a couple of pictures to show what I'm talking about....This first one has only the socket connected to the ground rods.

This second pic, they have wired it so that the the socket is grounded and that same wire is also running to the breaker box.

Posted: 9/18/2020 11:30:16 PM EDT

[#1]

Not an electrician, so I am going to defer to them. But I've studied code, and received help here.

I believe what you are discussing is bonding. Ie any additional panels have a bonding wire that grounds back to main panel, which has ground rods.

For your meter main is weird it's grounded to metal plumbing. Don't quote me on it, but I think a second grounding device is needed incase the 1st breaks.

Posted: 9/19/2020 1:24:47 AM EDT

[#2]

The way I understand the code, the neutral is supposed to be bonded to ground at only one point - typically, the main breaker.

Does that rule not also apply to the meter box?

Posted: 9/19/2020 8:46:58 PM EDT

[#3]

Who is "they" that is wiring your box?

Posted: 9/19/2020 9:08:52 PM EDT

[#4]

New service should be grounded and bonded at the service entrance. In your case,that’s the meter box. Then, should be 4 wire to the panel and another ground rod for the panel. Older electrical systems probably are 3 wire to the panel.

Posted: 9/22/2020 11:46:45 AM EDT

[#5]

Looks like the overhead is ran in PVC which could be why the Grounding conductor is installed. Incoming neutral is bonded to back of meter base and goes through to main panel neutral, Should be grounded at the main.

Posted: 9/23/2020 1:37:23 AM EDT

[#6]

Top photo is an exterior panel. There’s nothing to ground to up in the air. If that’s the wire to the ground rods that’s tied into the neutrals in the meter base, then the neutral bar and bus bar should probably not be bonded together in the panel. It looks like the ground wire doesn’t enter the panel, so maybe that’s the case.

Not sure on the second photo. Why is the meter base inside? And why leave two gaping open kos in the bottom?

Posted: 9/23/2020 1:50:10 AM EDT

[#7]

You can bond the neutral to ground in the meter base or in the panel. You should do so where it can be verified/maintained/serviced, so panel it is. Unless TX in general or your County in particular has rules superseding the NEC.

Posted: 9/23/2020 7:11:30 PM EDT

[#8]

You do not tie your #6 bare from your ground rods in the meter socket, you run it into the panel into the ground bar

Your water bond is also tied into grounding system per ground bar in the panel

You do not bond neutral in the meter, you bond it in the first means of disconnect AKA first panel if it has a main breaker

I dont know what if any codes TX has pertaining to this

<Electrician

Posted: 9/24/2020 6:08:46 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
The way I understand the code, the neutral is supposed to be bonded to ground at only one point - typically, the main breaker.

Does that rule not also apply to the meter box?

View Quote

If it has a disconnect in it, or any type of over current protection.
It becomes the main and all other panels are then sub panels and
require 4 wire connections.

Posted: 10/5/2020 10:11:29 AM EDT

[#10]

Just wanted to thank those with constructive replies and also follow-up with how this small project was completed. After reviewing NEC extensively, and with a little help from Mike Holt, I determined that my original idea in 'grounding' both the main breaker panel AND the meter box was against code. If I were to have done this, I would have created a situation in my wiring setup that basically amounts to parallel bonding.

So the main ground needs to only be bonded to the neutral at one point, either the main breaker panel OR the meter box. A third option also exists which is to bond at the utility feed before it even gets to the meter but this is rather uncommon for this type of install.

Posted: 10/10/2020 4:29:08 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

So the main ground needs to only be bonded to the neutral at one point, either the main breaker panel OR the meter box. A third option also exists which is to bond at the utility feed before it even gets to the meter but this is rather uncommon for this type of install.

View Quote

It is "uncommon" since it requires a 4-wire (H-H-N-G) connection to the now sub-panel.

Just as with larger 240 V loads like dryers and stoves, the exception that allows a
3-wire (H-H-N) feed to the appliance saves significant expense of using a
4-wire (H-H-N-G) feed.
Note that the neutral connection on a 3-wore feed is generally a rather stout mechanical one.
A complete ring of metal and plug screw to compress the wires for a solid connection.

Posted: 10/22/2020 12:15:30 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

It is "uncommon" since it requires a 4-wore (H-H-N-G) connection to the now sub-panel.

Just as with larger 240 V loads like dryers and stoves, the exception that allows a
3-wire (H-H-N) feed to the appliance saves significant expense of using a
4-wire (H-H-N-G) feed.
Note that the neutral connection on a 3-wore feed is generally a rather stout mechanical one.
A complete ring of metal and plug screw to compress the wires for a solid connection.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

So the main ground needs to only be bonded to the neutral at one point, either the main breaker panel OR the meter box. A third option also exists which is to bond at the utility feed before it even gets to the meter but this is rather uncommon for this type of install.

It is "uncommon" since it requires a 4-wore (H-H-N-G) connection to the now sub-panel.

Just as with larger 240 V loads like dryers and stoves, the exception that allows a
3-wire (H-H-N) feed to the appliance saves significant expense of using a
4-wire (H-H-N-G) feed.
Note that the neutral connection on a 3-wore feed is generally a rather stout mechanical one.
A complete ring of metal and plug screw to compress the wires for a solid connection.

Not true. Separate neutral and ground (grounded and equipment grounding conductor) are required at any point downstream of the service disconnecting means. If you bond the neutral in the meter pan, you don't have to run a separate ground to the service disconnect.

Also, the "exception" for ranges, dryers, etc is for existing installations. Anything installed new needs to be a 4-wire circuit with a separate equipment grounding conductor. It's safer, and is not really much of an additional expenses.

Posted: 10/23/2020 1:38:27 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not true. Separate neutral and ground (grounded and equipment grounding conductor) are required at any point downstream of the service disconnecting means. If you bond the neutral in the meter pan, you don't have to run a separate ground to the service disconnect.

Also, the "exception" for ranges, dryers, etc is for existing installations. Anything installed new needs to be a 4-wire circuit with a separate equipment grounding conductor. It's safer, and is not really much of an additional expenses.

View Quote

AS soon as you put a disconnect or over-current into the service THAT box
becomes a main, and every other box requires 4-wire connections to the main.

"If you bond the neutral in the meter pan, you don't have to run a separate ground to the service disconnect."

Depends on how close the meter pan is to the service disconnect.
"Adjacent" is the operative word.

The other side of a wall is NOT considered adjacent.

If the meter pan and service disconnect are both on the exterior you get some relief.

Depending on distance you can save a decent amount by not having to run a 4-wire service.
25%.