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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:35:30 PM EDT
Darned frost free hydrant by my barn froze up for the second winter in the five years I've owned my property. Both times it has been in mid January, when average daily temps with wind chill are in the -20F to -10F. The previous time it froze up was three winters ago. It sucks because I'm having to fill up two 5 gallon buckets in my basement and then haul them ~75 yards to my barn to fill the animal water buckets. Have to make 3-4 trips daily.
Last time it froze up I had to wait until the thaw in late March before I could pull the rubber plunger at the bottom and replace it. Wondering if that plunger is something I should be replacing more frequently. If you have a frost-free hydrant how often do you replace the plunger? If the plunger is the culprit (versus the drain hole clogging up, or drain field failing) then I basically got one winter out of the plunger I replaced spring of 2016. 
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:39:10 PM EDT
[#1]
My parents have one they use just about every day and I don't remember it ever freezing up. They did have to replace the top portion a couple years ago because it wore out, but it was at least 20yrs old. The other one they have down by the silos has froze up but that one rarely gets used so I'm sure everything is rusted and or dried up inside.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:41:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Never had a problem with any of mine.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:41:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Perhaps global warming is causing the frost line to go down..... Dig a deeper hole?
Cheers from SFL |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:42:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My parents have one they use just about every day and I don't remember it ever freezing up. They did have to replace the top portion a couple years ago because it wore out, but it was at least 20yrs old. The other one they have down by the silos has froze up but that one rarely gets used so I'm sure everything is rusted and or dried up inside. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:43:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps global warming is causing the frost line to go down..... Dig a deeper hole? Cheers from SFL 
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:46:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Like she said, just go deeper. What is the frost line in your area? There's nothing magical about frost free hydrants. They just drain the water in the portion that daylights, usually into gravel or sand at the lowest point of the hydrant. That way the tube is empty until the mechanism above ground calls for water. They all rely upon latent ground temperature to keep the valve mechanism from freezing.
Same thing with sill cocks. The reason they're frost proof is that the valve mechanism is in the inside of the house. If your heat goes off, and the interior falls below freezing, your frost proof sill cock will freeze up. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:50:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like she said, just go deeper. What is the frost line in your area? There's nothing magical about frost free hydrants. They just drain the water in the portion that daylights, usually into gravel or sand at the lowest point of the hydrant. That way the tube is empty until the mechanism above ground calls for water. They all rely upon latent ground temperature to keep the valve mechanism from freezing. Same thing with sill cocks. The reason they're frost proof is that the valve mechanism is in the inside of the house. If your heat goes off, and the interior falls below freezing, your frost proof sill cock will freeze up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like she said, just go deeper. What is the frost line in your area? There's nothing magical about frost free hydrants. They just drain the water in the portion that daylights, usually into gravel or sand at the lowest point of the hydrant. That way the tube is empty until the mechanism above ground calls for water. They all rely upon latent ground temperature to keep the valve mechanism from freezing. Same thing with sill cocks. The reason they're frost proof is that the valve mechanism is in the inside of the house. If your heat goes off, and the interior falls below freezing, your frost proof sill cock will freeze up. The National Weather Service measures frost depth in Wisconsin from the beginning of November until the end of the spring thaw. Since the National Weather Service started measuring frost depth, the deepest measure was 24 inches in February 2009 |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:50:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's already 6' deep. According to to his map I'm in the frost level band between 70" and 80" (slightly closer to 70"). http://www.hammerpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wisconsin.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Perhaps global warming is causing the frost line to go down..... Dig a deeper hole? Cheers from SFL http://www.hammerpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wisconsin.png Is there enough gravel or sand at the bottom? When you turn the water off, the residual water in the tube has to have some place to drain. If not, it will freeze up and the not work the next time you want to use it. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:51:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Likely the drain line is clogged and and the pipe isn't draining completely. Dig 'er out and reinstall inside a bucket of gravel with some weed cloth on it to keep out sand.
http://thedancingdonkey.blogspot.com/2015/10/how-to-install-frost-free-hydrant.html |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:53:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you sure that it is the hydrant that is freezing, and not some portion of the supply that wasn't buried deep enough? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Perhaps global warming is causing the frost line to go down..... Dig a deeper hole? Cheers from SFL http://www.hammerpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wisconsin.png |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:53:33 PM EDT
[#11]
If you close the valve and it sucks the water out of your hand it's good to go. If not the weep hole is plugged or it wasn't installed in a layer of gravel so it could drain.
You can unplug the drain by spinning off the head and hitting it with an air compressor, with the plunger down, obviously with the water off. Those plunger heads should last years, like 10 or 12 years so it's probably a plugged drain |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:53:34 PM EDT
[#12]
I have a bunch of them, never replaced the plunger. My guess is that it is froze down to the plunger and trying to move it tears the rubber. Base either isn't draining or isn't below the frost level. Most of mine are over 30 years old, I've changed a couple due to hard water deposits almost stopping the flow.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:55:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems debatable. Found a map that pegs it at somewhere between 70"-80". But found this which seems to put it at a much shallower depth. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:55:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Likely the drain line is clogged and and the pipe isn't draining completely. Dig 'er out and reinstall inside a bucket of gravel with some weed cloth on it to keep out sand. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aN6xeyh3iTg/Vi2J8ZzOS5I/AAAAAAAAWbM/lyYPugLgGq0/s1600/IMG_0083.JPG |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 2:59:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Likely the drain line is clogged and and the pipe isn't draining completely. Dig 'er out and reinstall inside a bucket of gravel with some weed cloth on it to keep out sand. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aN6xeyh3iTg/Vi2J8ZzOS5I/AAAAAAAAWbM/lyYPugLgGq0/s1600/IMG_0083.JPG http://thedancingdonkey.blogspot.com/2015/10/how-to-install-frost-free-hydrant.html |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:01:14 PM EDT
[#16]
I installed one a few years ago at my old house, and another this year at the new house.
I'd dig it up a couple of feet deeper than your final depth and replace it all with large rock and cobble. You need to have lots of room for the water to get away from the piping and still have time to slowly dissipate when it's saturated. Remember that you're giving it a small shot of water every time it's shut off, so if you can limit the on-off cycles you'll limit the water quantity underground. The last one I did I buried 2' of rock, placed a plastic layer over it so I wouldn't get dirt to slowly kill the volume between the rock, then finished the plumbing, soil cover etc. I can probably hold 50 gallons under there and not get settlement or freezing at the faucet. Edit- If you don't want to go deeper you can use foam insulation. You still need room for water to be away from the pipe, but a 1" peices of foam insulation will keep it from freezing. Use as big of a price as possible, the cold soaks around do them. There's a govt guide on using foam for shallow frost foundations you could read... HUD I think published it? |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:01:38 PM EDT
[#17]
I learn something new from GD everyday. Cool to know this for when i move someday soon.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:04:55 PM EDT
[#18]
I would dig it up and replace it. I would say that you want to go one size deeper than your frost line, but I would also look at the drainage. If the contents of the feed pipe can't empty into the ground, it will remain in the pipe and freeze up. Good luck.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:06:26 PM EDT
[#19]
do you have the option to run a garden hose to the watering hole from the house? save the wear and tear on your back?
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:07:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I installed one a few years ago at my old house, and another this year at the new house. I'd dig it up a couple of feet deeper than your final depth and replace it all with large rock and cobble. You need to have lots of room for the water to get away from the piping and still have time to slowly dissipate when it's saturated. Remember that you're giving it a small shot of water every time it's shut off, so if you can limit the on-off cycles you'll limit the water quantity underground. The last one I did I buried 2' of rock, placed a plastic layer over it so I wouldn't get dirt to slowly kill the volume between the rock, then finished the plumbing, soil cover etc. I can probably hold 50 gallons under there and not get settlement or freezing at the faucet. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:12:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
do you have the option to run a garden hose to the watering hole from the house? save the wear and tear on your back? 
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:12:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine is inside the unheated barn and would freeze in hard snaps in the winter. When I had a new one put in 3 years ago, I put a 6ft pipe tape on it and wrapped it in foam pipe insulation. The insulation and pipe tape only go about a foot into the gravel/soil and the rest heats the shaft of the standpipe, about 4.5 ft above ground. I plug it in in December and unplug it in April. Not problems, even during -19 nights this winter Type of soil also changes, clay and rock insulate very differently. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:14:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Likely the drain line is clogged and and the pipe isn't draining completely. Dig 'er out and reinstall inside a bucket of gravel with some weed cloth on it to keep out sand. If sand or a rock blocks the drain, you're screwed and need a shovel. A good idea I think to add a 1/8" pipe thread "L" to the hydrant so that the open end of the "L" points down...much harder for crap to enter. I covered the lower part of the hydrant about a foot up with pea gravel. An even better idea is to separate the top of the hydrant from the pipe section when the hydrant is new and put it back together with a bf load of never-seize. That will allow easy disassembly later when you need to change the rubber seal at the bottom of the actuation rod. It is the bitch from the eighth level of hell to disassemble one if it's been in the ground for a few years. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:21:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's already 6' deep. According to to his map I'm in the frost level band between 70" and 80" (slightly closer to 70"). http://www.hammerpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wisconsin.png
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:29:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hose would just freeze up. Last time this happened I started off filling up water from the faucet on the front [outside] of the home. That faucet quickly froze up as well. Day in and out -20F temps tend to do that to water quickly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
do you have the option to run a garden hose to the watering hole from the house? save the wear and tear on your back? |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:36:46 PM EDT
[#26]
been running a garden hose 130 ft to the barn for a year. this is the second winter without a hydrant out there and i have become bucketboy. two 5 gallon buckets a night for me but i can tell you just what the eff im accomplishing this spring or summer so as to never have another winter like this one.
i despise horses. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:41:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Do you have electric near, put a heat wrap on it to get through this winter.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:44:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not deep enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's already 6' deep. According to to his map I'm in the frost level band between 70" and 80" (slightly closer to 70"). http://www.hammerpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wisconsin.png
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:46:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think where the plunger seats (i.e. the drain hole) is 6' deep. When I pulled the rod (that the plunger connects to) that rod was ~6' long. But the hydrant sits about 3' above ground. So that means the rod/plunger is only going ~3' into the ground. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:46:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have electric near, put a heat wrap on it to get through this winter. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:48:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, if you buy a 3' bury it's about 6' long. My neighbor bought a 4' bury and it's a mile high, lol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think where the plunger seats (i.e. the drain hole) is 6' deep. When I pulled the rod (that the plunger connects to) that rod was ~6' long. But the hydrant sits about 3' above ground. So that means the rod/plunger is only going ~3' into the ground. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:50:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hose would just freeze up. Last time this happened I started off filling up water from the faucet on the front [outside] of the home. That faucet quickly froze up as well. Day in and out -20F temps tend to do that to water quickly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
do you have the option to run a garden hose to the watering hole from the house? save the wear and tear on your back? At the self-care barn where I used to board my horse years ago if the pumps froze we'd just put the water buckets on a toboggan and drag 8-10 at once between the stable and house. If there was no snow we'd put a clean muck bucket in a wheelbarrow, fill that about half full, and dip from that. Saved walking back and forth. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:50:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey, at least if I'm trying to stay positive about this problem, just means less digging in the spring to get to the bottom and where the drain is. How deep is the pipe your faucet is on? Is the entire thing at risk? |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:57:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Move south!
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Posted: 1/14/2018 3:58:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Drain the hose and store it in the basement. Also a black hose in the sun won't freeze up nearly as fast as the light green ones. At the self-care barn where I used to board my horse years ago if the pumps froze we'd just put the water buckets on a toboggan and drag 8-10 at once between the stable and house. If there was no snow we'd put a clean muck bucket in a wheelbarrow, fill that about half full, and dip from that. Saved walking back and forth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
do you have the option to run a garden hose to the watering hole from the house? save the wear and tear on your back? At the self-care barn where I used to board my horse years ago if the pumps froze we'd just put the water buckets on a toboggan and drag 8-10 at once between the stable and house. If there was no snow we'd put a clean muck bucket in a wheelbarrow, fill that about half full, and dip from that. Saved walking back and forth.  Too much water just sloshes out of the buckets when you transport them in a sled or wheelbarrow, which just means more trips. And since I have to fill this up in my basement, which is a fully in ground basement, I have to be able to carry the water up a full flight of stairs so using a larger bucket like a muckbucket isn't an option. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:01:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Move south! 
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:08:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Never had ours freeze since we put it in in 1993.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:09:31 PM EDT
[#38]
My aunt had the same problem up in South Dakota, they used some heater wire from tractor supply and a solar battery pack to heat Up 4 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening when they get water for the horses and pigs.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:23:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Harsh cold and loads of snow keep a certain "element" out of the region (outside a small concentration of them in one or two big cities in the area). Makes for better [public] schools, healthcare systems, neighborhoods, etc. I would place a plastic 55 gallon barrel over our outdoor faucet when it was -20 or colder....even with 6foot deep plunger a week at -40 lows would be too much to keep it from freezing. the barrel keep it thawed. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:34:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same reason we love Montana....cold keeps riff-raff away... I would place a plastic 55 gallon barrel over our outdoor faucet when it was -20 or colder....even with 6foot deep plunger a week at -40 lows would be too much to keep it from freezing. the barrel keep it thawed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Harsh cold and loads of snow keep a certain "element" out of the region (outside a small concentration of them in one or two big cities in the area). Makes for better [public] schools, healthcare systems, neighborhoods, etc. I would place a plastic 55 gallon barrel over our outdoor faucet when it was -20 or colder....even with 6foot deep plunger a week at -40 lows would be too much to keep it from freezing. the barrel keep it thawed. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:44:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Likely the drain line is clogged and and the pipe isn't draining completely. Dig 'er out and reinstall inside a bucket of gravel with some weed cloth on it to keep out sand. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aN6xeyh3iTg/Vi2J8ZzOS5I/AAAAAAAAWbM/lyYPugLgGq0/s1600/IMG_0083.JPG http://thedancingdonkey.blogspot.com/2015/10/how-to-install-frost-free-hydrant.html |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:49:38 PM EDT
[#42]
In refrigeration world, a single run, not wrapped, 3w/foot Weather Guard heat tape, attached to copper drain line with aluminum tape, insulated with 3/4 inch wall pipe insulation would keep a line clear in a -10* freezer. Since you have galvanized steel pipe and ground contact, it's going to take more wattage. I suspect the "plug" does not go to the bottom, but you will have to heat down to the plug to keep it clear. I don't know how you determine that. I also believe it's not draining. If you heat it with a torch can you thaw it out?
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:53:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also install a 90* elbow so the drain goes down, makes sure nothing gets in the drain hole to plug it. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 5:05:06 PM EDT
[#44]
My FIL's froze a few years before he died.
We took it apart and pored water down the pipe and it didn't drain so we dug it up and found the drain tube was clogged with crap. We replaced the drain and he didn't have the problem again. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 5:21:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Not saying this is a good idea but if you have metal supply pipes and since it is outdoors it might get you going.
Using welder to thaw pipes-discussion. |
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