I keep debating whether i need to do shrugs or not.  My back day typically has more lifts than my other days.  I keep debating if I actually need shrugs or not  Sometimes I really feel them hit my traps and other days I can't hardly feel anything.  Back day is the one day I feel like maybe I am doing to many things.

Things I do throughout the week that I know hit traps: upright rows, lateral raises, stiff leg deadlifts, various row movements and pulldowns (not sure how much these hit traps).

Yeah, but with a bar over your head....after you've already lifted it up there.

My traps grew a lot after I started doing a small hold at the top of my overhead presses.

I don't see much utility in shrugs, if I'm carrying heavy buckets or something I'm not shrugging them, I'm just doing my best to keep my grip on them.

I'm not sure that anyone can tell, but I do shrugs and neck exercises with weight strapped to me head on light days.  Light days meaning when I'm doing barbell rows or power cleans instead of dead lifts.  I do the shrugs and neck exercises last.  

Not important unless you want bigger traps. If that's the case, then yes, they're important.

Sufficed to say, I think OP you could explain what you mean by "important" a bit more.

I had to stop doing deadlifts because my traps got too big.  Never done a shrug in my life and never intend to.

I quit doing shrugs are started doing a modified front raise.  Take a weight (I use a 45# plate), holds it in both hands flat against your thighs and without bending your elbows bring it out and up over your head until slughtly behind you.   A physical therapist showed me the exercise after I tore my rhomboid loose.   I got an huge amount of growth in my traps and rear delts from it

I think my trap development is decent.  I feel like my traps get hit a good amount by all my other stuff I do lifting 6 days a week.  I just wanted to hear other peoples opinion about how "crucial" it is for good trap development.  Ive been trying to limit each session to a certain number of lifts to not over train.  My back and bicep day tends to be the longest so I am trying to decide if I want to drop shrugs, something else, or just keep it how it is.

Your traps are not highly developed and working them isn't taxing on the CNS.  Similar to calves traps can take a high amount of volume and recover quick without taxing the CNS so over training isn't a concern.  I was raised a wrestler and boxer so neck and trap work is something we did.  Is it necessary for the average person?  No.  Should you be concerned that working traps will put too much volume into your routine?  No.

Bottom line it's not an important lift for the average person, but adding it isn't going to make your routine have too much volume either.

Most people over think their diet, routine, and bulk/cut too often.  Just put in the work and lift with intensity making sure you hit your macros with real food and sleep well.

This is the best advice here

So nobody said "highly developed".  I said they were decently developed.  I took a pic from behind as well to show the lower portion but my back is to hairy right now so I deleted it.  TRT seems to make me grow hair on my back like a gorilla.

Right now I am doing somewhat of a push pull split.  Not exactly because I do for instance lateral raises on my chest shoulder and tricep day and technically thats a pull movement.  There's a few other examples.  Anyways I am doing 2 days of chest shoulders and triceps, 2 days of back biceps, two days of legs.  I tend to lift for 1.5-2 hrs then do 20 min cardio. On good days I can get the lifting done in 1.5 hrs.  On days I drag its more like 2.  Back days tend to go long for me so I am trying to make decisions if I need to adjust anything.

It's interesting how you ask a question and when I try to give constructive advice you get offended.  I was raised ruff and worked construction and factory work most of my life.  I'm used to people telling me what needed said rather than what I wanted to hear.  It's interesting how people post a question and when they are told what they needed to hear they get offended because they really only wanted to be told what they wanted to hear.  

Since your traps are not highly developed and they can handle a lot of volume without taxing your cns so no threat of over training by adding in some trap work then there is no reason not to work them.  I never claimed you said they are highly developed.  I can tell by your picture that nothing is highly developed to the point that you should skip training it.  Can you skip it yes as it isn't critical to do isolation work for the traps, but do you need to skip them in your circumstance, No.

Dude I was clarifying I wasn't upset.  I tend to explain things whether I need to or not.  I wasn't asking if I should skip training traps/not work them I was asking how important people felt shrugs were for training them.  They are trained by other stuff.  You are creating scenarios all on your own.  I found your first post as well as other peoples posts meaningful. Im not looking for you to say what I want to hear but yes I will rebut if you create scenarios I never said like me not wanting to train traps.  

You are knowledgeable and have more experience than me but just like usual you come across as a total douche with a chip on your shoulder who knows everything better than everyone else.  I'm definitely not the only one who feels that way about you on this forum.  You can't even post a thread in GD without being dogpiled because you come across as a holier than thou douch nozzle to everyone.  The pattern/shtick you have with everyone is if they don't take everything you says as the gospel you start shitting on them.

On top of all of it you are likely a fake natty anyways. I don't even care about that but it's worth noting at this point. Now fuck off.

I like doing shrugs.

I like them and have done them just about every back day.  I use straps to go heavy enough that i can reach failure.  I like the trap bar the most but it's a pain in the ass to get to at my gym because it's always at the back of this Barbell storage thing.  My next preference is smith shrugs.  Sometimes I use the plate loaded shrug machine but I feel like I feel that the very least.

You should probably incorporate some heavy snatch and clean pulls to help overload your classic lifts during your hypertrophy and strength phases as well as a shrugs with your snatch or clean deadlifts to finish a set.

This should help your power production through the first and second pulls.



Oh, that's right, you bro's are all about dem aesthetics.  

I have done snatch and cleans but not to the point that I feel highly proficient.  I do need to change stuff up sometimes.  Thank you for being constructive.  I may look at how to incorporate that for some phase.


I promise I do not think of myself as an expert but I am proud of the progress I have made the last couple years.  I am all about advice.  I guess I don't understand why certain individuals in here seem to get off tearing people down I guess they feel are less than them or something.  I wanted to post here to have comradery or whatever with fellow conservative gun owners that like to lift both as a hobby and seriously.

I think I may just take a break here or forgo this forum all together.  Anyways thanks for your input.

Bro.  Have a Snickers.

Well....I just want more of you fuckers to snatch and C&J!  

Yeah, for pure aesthetics, you're better spending time on other things.  But....from a performance aspect, or just being fucking awesome, the classic lifts are the way (or the variants at least)!

You said yourself, change up some stuff every once in awhile.  Keeps it fresh and gives you new goals.  

Set of 5 hang power cleans with a shrug x whatever finisher.  Or clean pull, hang clean, shrug.  Go for a set of 5 and throw on 10# a week.

Who knows.....you might turn into a weightlifter.  

I wish I had the room overhead to learn the olympic lifts. I have to press between floor joists, so it wouldn't work out.

I would need some coaching too.

I appreciate your feedback/advice.  

When i post pics here it's often not at the gym so i have no pump going and shitty light half the time.  I need to quit doing that because I'm pretty cut in a lot of areas and I have some seriously vascular arms and calves.  When I just snap a quick picture in my bathroom after watching TV for a bit it it's just not all that impressive lol.  Not that I am a specimen or anything but it doesn't do me justice.  One of the gyms i go to has really good lighting in the locker room and in fact competitive bodybuilders go in there with tripods to take pics and practice poses.  I may feel like a weirdo but if I do post pics again I will do that.  I honestly don't plan to start any more threads here for a while if at all.

I go heavy some days but it probably would be helpful to do a strength training phase.  I am a little paranoid about that because it seems like on some really heavy lifts my muscles have no problems but then my tendons feel really strained or something.  I did some really heavy one handed Curls with the Preacher curl machine Saturday for instance and the tendons on my inner elbow are really really aching today.  I know Curls are not part of powerlifting or anything I'm just using it as an example of when I go to heavy having tendon issues with some but not all lifts.

For most people  -  Shrugs are not an important lift if you are already doing other "basics"   (deadlift, cleans, barbell rows -- there are others )   - unless there is some weakness there that is throwing off other things

but if your intent is bodybuilding or something -- every bodypart is important

My goal is physique training/bodybuilding but just for my own purposes/motivation not to compete.

I recently dropped overhead press after hearing over and over from reputable sources that they won't help much with size since they really only work the front dent as far as shoulders.  I already do so many presses and weighted Dips I felt like I would benefit from more lateral raises.  So I typically will do 4 sets of dumbell lateral raises fairly early on my chest shoulders and Triceps days and then finish out late in the workout with 4 sets on the machine lateral raise going heavy and the last 2 sets are drop sets.  On my back/Bicep days I always do the rear delt machine and make sure i hit rear delts a good bit with my back work.  My goal is to eventually have more 3d shape to them.  I don't know how successful I'll be but that won't stop me from trying.

As far as the shrugs I have a hard time changing if I have done something for so long.  My gym owner used to always tell me I am probably overworking myself and I probably was back when I started.  After getting some coaching advice I believe my training has become more ideal.  I am much better about not overdoing it but sometimes I probably try to fit to much.  So I have just tried to limit the number of excercises I do each session.  The vast majority of my lifts are compound lifts.  I always do a little isolation work at the end.

The things I do twice weekly that I know hit traps are upright rows, freeweight rows, plate loaded machine rows or tbar rows, deadlift variations, then some limited engagement from Dumbbell laterals and machine laterals.  I may trim shrugs off one of my back days or I may decide to trim something else.  I'm just in the gym for a long time and back day needs something adjusted.  I do 2 variations of Curls for 4 sets each at the end maybe I'll just go to one type for 4 sets.

I say chest shoulders and Triceps but I don't really do any rear delt work on that day I do all my rear delt work on my back day.  I do somewhat of a push, leg, pull split.  I workout 6 days so I do 2 of each day.  I have different templates for push day 1 vs push day 2 and the same for pull and leg days.

Do you do the same weight, rep and set scheme every session?

No.  I have read though that it is very beneficial to have a separate strength training phase and hypertrophy phases but I have not implemented that.  I may look into doing that eventually.

I do not use the same rep and set scheme every session. I do typically do 4 sets of each thing but sometimes I will add sets or do less sets if I am really warmed up and going straight to my working sets or am at least doing less feeler/warmup sets.

With each lift I typically do 2 "feeler" sets where I am using less weight but getting progressively closer to my working weight.  On these sets I lift until it starts to feel difficult but not to the point of failure or like it is really taxing/fatiguing.  Then my typically 2 working sets I go to absolute failure.  I typically shoot for 10-12 reps to failure but if I reach 12 and I still have more in the tank I am going to go until I don't.  Some weeks I consciously decide I am going to go heavy and then that rep range falls to more like 6-8 reps or less sometimes.  When I go heavy I will do that with all my different days but eventually I can tell fatigue is starting to build and I back off of heavy workouts to allow myself to recover.  Likewise some times I will go lighter and will go 15-20 reps to failure or sometimes beyond 20.  I guess those workouts have lots of pump work.  My average range though is a goal of 10-12 to absolute failure on my working sets.  I don't keep a log anymore I just choose a weight I think is appropriate for the rep goal and use it to reach that failure point.

I need to maybe add a distinct strength training phase though at some point.

I do shrugs often but not each work out, probably twice a week. I also started doing supported shrugs with the board set at 60°. It's a better angle for the upper traps and doesn't blow out my lower back.

Totally unrelated but I do need to figure out how to manage my fatigue better at times.  I do weighted Dips Thursdays and normally use 90lbs for my working weight.  I could barely do it all today lol.  Not sure what the deal was.  Here was a couple weeks ago.  My brother lives in Switzerland so I take videos sometimes mainly to share with him.  Feel free to roast me I don't care at this point.

https://youtube.com/shorts/uYe5eQKZgPo?si=QzMW6dQzYmjFus3B

Well I think so, but to be honest I had a reason for doing them. When I was a young man long ago, I was tall and broad shouldered but very lanky, as a result I had a long neck, to my 18 year old self this looked funny when I looked in the mirror, so when I started a lifelong habit of working out at that time, shrugs were a part of EVERY workout, even on leg day.

Have to say it worked great, built up a nice set of traps and it did make my neck look normal instead of vaguely giraffe-ish,lol. Actually had a pretty hot girl compliment me on them one time.

That makes sense thanks for your feedback.  I just want to trim my pull/back day down just a little.  I may drop to only one curl variation as all the other pulls hit my biceps pretty well anyway.  I am just at the gym to long on pull days.

I do my shrugs on shoulder / leg day.

I thought I was just fatigued this morning but I think I'm coming down with something.  I've felt like death all day.   I had the day off so I've just been laying around since the gym. No fever or anything.  I have eaten all my food but it has been a chore I just have no appetite.  Hopefully I feel better tomorrow but if not I'll probably take the day off.

How many reps and sets we talking, not warm up, just working?

Typically 14-16 working sets on pull day.  I'm not going to guess at reps but I try to train mostly for hypertrophy so I would say my average rep range per set is 8-12 but that varies based on the lift also.  Plus if I want to go heavier the rep range will drop of course or lighter it will go up.  Saturday is a pull day and Sunday is a rest day.  Sometimes I'll add pushdowns on Saturday which pushes me to 16 working sets.  I don't like to do them on Wednesdays because I do chest Thursdays and it hits chest a little.

My other days are usually 12 working sets occasionally 14 if I add something.  I just need to prioritize and revamp a little.

Yes

This. Traps probably aren't holding your other lifts back. But if you want to looked yoked, go for it.

Best change I’ve made to develop my traps was incorporating a heavy carry into my workout several times per week. Farmer carry or suitcase carry, with the intent being, “carry more than you want to carry for longer than you want to carry it.”

Check out Brian Alsruhe and his “every day carry” concept.

I do traps on chest day.  Can’t do overhead since I dislocated my shoulder, but I do normal shrugs and barbell behind me shrugs.

My traps have always been big, even as a kid, I don’t do them to make them bigger, I do them to provide balance.

Can’t just work chest and become unbalanced.

Lol...it’s good to know you aren’t upset.  I’m definitely natty and turning 50 soon never even had my test levels checked.  I think having always worked out all my life while eating and sleeping right never doing drugs or drinking alcohol ever has played a part in my success. In iowa we start wrestling at 5 years old having never had a gut or been out of shape in my life has played a part in my current health and success without drugs.  People let themselves go get fat and out of shape then need TRT to get fit and assume because they need it everyone else more successful must have used drugs as well.

I’ve never been interested in internet popularity I usually post things that aren’t going to be popular to try and spur further discussion thinking outside the box knowing full well it will not be popular.  The name calling you continuously do to me doesn’t bother me in the slightest even though you’ve done it multiple times in multiple threads.  Interesting that you think I’m trying to tear you down though I’m actually trying to push you and what I do with people I’ve personally trained they can take it though and not everyone can handle being pushed to do things they aren’t currently doing to reach new levels without losing their shit lmao.

Gee whiz lefty-weaver-g19 thank you for putting so much effort and thought into that. It obviously was eating you all up.

Literally every interaction I've ever had with you has always started with you being a complete ass whether its gd or fitness threads.  I know how you say at the factory it's normal for everyone to be an asshole to eachother so maybe you think it's normal in all aspects of life to go around literally being a tool to people you encounter.  I really don't know what your issue is man but you really are an asshole.

I had honestly forgotten about this until the fake_natty_guy bumped my thread.

I've still been doing shrugs on my pull day.  I had previously been doing upright rows but I had started having wrist pain and I thought maybe the upright rows was causing it.  So I switched to doing face pulls using the form athlean x uses with 2 ropes.  I don't follow athlean but I saw that video and tried it that way before and liked it.  The face pulls with that form do hit my traps pretty good and then doing shrugs next they really feel like they get worked.  I'll keep doing that for a while and see how it goes.

My wrist pain is much less.  Almost completely better.

I'm not sure if I like fake_natty_guy more or Mr_perfect.  One encompasses the truth and the other the persona.  Tough choice.

You continue to make personal attacks and insult me in every thread we’ve ever posted in.  I guess roid rage is real lmao.  

I don’t have issues in my personal life getting along with others and have many friends as well as people I help with training.  

I’ve been rather busy between work, family, and helping friends with our drag racing hobby working on projects together.  Maybe you didn’t notice it was over a month since your response to me before I responded to your previous name calling post.  

You seem a bit insecure and lacking of friends to  get so easily upset about posts online and so quick to call names and insult others who have opinions that differ from your own.

It’s human nature to make excuses when others are more successful and make up false accusations to make yourself feel better about not being as successful.

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I’ve been following this thread and I gotta say that OP’s lashing out and pouting/inability to cope is giving off some serious insecure teenager vibes.  
It’s not a good look, man.  Some thicker skin would serve you well.

I'm honestly not concerned man but thanks for your input. It may look like that from this one thread but I've just had enough of leftys shit.  He is constantly an asshole.  When someone is constantly an asshole to me I'm going to be an asshole back.  It's also kinda hard to take anything he says at this point as anything other than a jab from my previous experiences with the little dude.

Man there is nothing left to say that hasn't been covered.  I think you come across as an asshole who thinks he is God's gift to all things fitness.   You think you are the ultimate example of whatever it is you think you are and like to tell your life's story detailing how great you are.  You don't know me or my social situation lol.  I just get tired of your same old stick so I respond in kind.

You say something about personal attacks then say I don't have any friends and have roid rage which is something you throw around every time I respond to something you say...... Pot meet kettle.  Its all good for you to throw personal attacks I guess but it's different somehow when I do the same.  I honestly don't care if you are natural or not but you keep saying I have roid rage with zero evidence so I make the claims about you being a fake natty with zero evidence.  I honestly don't care but it seems to rile you up and you seem to put in an inordinate amount of effort to announce how natural you are all the fucking time lol like anybody cares.

You mention me attacking you in multiple threads and yes I have because I was responding in kind.  You find posts I guess you disagree with and go on long diatribes usually fitting your life story in there ripping me for whatever reason and I'm usually an asshole back.  So yes I have attacked you before but honestly I don't think I've ever started any of it but you can believe whatever you want.  

I'm done responding to you.  Feel free to shit all over me and chronicle your life history explaining why you are not to be questioned.  Im done in this thread.

Lol that was a lot of typing for someone that has nothing to say to me.  It’s obvious who has lost their cool here. You’ve admitted to being on test and some other substances in other threads. There is nothing wrong with that as that is a personal choice.  I choose to stay natural and take it as a compliment that someone would see my physique and think it can’t be done naturally.

I said there was nothing left to say because all I was doing was repeating the same crap just as you recycle the same crap every time man.  It's worthwhile to point out your hypocrisy though.

I take testosterone which is prescribed.  I took mk-677 for a couple months once which im pretty sure is considered a peptide.  I didn't see a benefit other than making my carpal tunnel flare up a little.

I'm fine man I'm at work and have had a couple no shows.  Other than covid and getting an eye surgery having me down for a week each I've been doing great and making good progress.

Thanks again for putting in so much thought.

LMAO... you must have forgotten saying this earlier today...LMAO...



Prescribed or not test is test it's not natural.  A little google shows mk-677 is some form of growth hormone and certainly not natural.  Might not even be legal for human consumption.  Anything else you want to talk about or are you actually done responding to me and done in this thread this time?  LMAO.

My wife massages my balls every night.  

Do you think I really care at this point man? I am literally passing time between my patients at this point checking arfcom and facebook. Yea I said I wasn't responding more you got me there!! Oh man you showed me.  

Mk-677 is certainly legal but it is sold as a research chemical just like every other peptide out there.   It is not growth hormone it theoretically causes your body to produce/release more growth hormone.  One of the major side effects of growth hormone is carpal tunnel.  I was noticing increased carpal tunnel symptoms so I stopped.  I can buy it at the nutrition store down the road if I wanted.

My wife is taking a peptide (bpc-157) in hopes it helps her bicep tendonitis and acl fully recover.  It is also a "research chemical".  There is absolutely nothing illegal about it except it can't be sold labeled anything other than a research chemical.  

If you are ready we can let this thread die.  There really is nothing left but if you really want to have this back and forth about I honestly don't know at this point then I guess we can.   You are not bothering me at this point.  I mean you are a dick but at this point its more amusing than anything.

Mine has sex with me every night.  Not going to lie my balls are pretty small from the TRT so Im not sure how massaging those marbles would go lol.

damnson.jpeg

Do I have a dedicated effort towards them? No.

Will I throw them in with a superset/giant set somewhere in my weekly routine? Yes.