User Panel
every county in OK has a Emergency Response Director I think or atleast an individual assigned to those tasks. they plan for numerous SHTF situations.
F5 tornado's massive land fires oil/gas disasters etc..etc... |
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Their plan is mostly to hole up in the emergency command center and issue "You're ALL gonna die" bulletins!
Then pat each other on the back when its all over. |
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Ours does
The written plan runs over 600 pages, so I won't be forwarding it By the time the County Judge reads all that, I expect the emergency to be over |
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Some years ago, and a couple residences ago, my girlfriend was briefly a contractor picked up by the County (on the strength of a recommendation from a former boss of mine, oddly) to help with a review of their Continuity of Operations/Continuity of Government planning. That is, their "How do we make sure that bare essential functions keep going in various levels of disaster?" plan.
I don't recall how it ended up, but she was pretty disgusted with what she saw at the beginning. |
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They are supposed to, but It depends on the county some are way better than others.
Some you better pray you are nowhere near if something happens because they are so fucked up. |
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Quoted:I’m certain all levels of .gov have varying degrees of preparedness. I’m equally sure most of those plans won’t help the little people (us). View Quote There's about 50 ham radio operators in my town between the various volunteer groups. There's people pre-designated to report to the hospitals, to the senior citizens homes and communities ... I live within a five minute walk to one of the towns million gallon water resovors so I'm suppose to walk up there, walk the perimeter looking for cracks or weaknesses and report to our portable solar powered/generator backup ham radio trailer. That trailer has six operator positions and dedicated white boards. There are communications runners, support people, engineers ... the whole gamette across the support spectrum. No we're not going to knock on the door of every home in the city on that first hour ... but might by the end of day five. |
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Of course not. Why plan for an invasion from outer space if it hasn't previously happened, time/people/money are finite, and there's better things to focus upon. You look at what's possible, what's probable, and what's most painful assigning scores to each. An a large +8.0 earthquake is possible, slightly probable, and highly painful = high score. A blizzard is possible, highly un-probable and somewhat painful = lower or medium score. A group of 10-12 guys sit around a board arguing these things for hours before we even start. One guy said we should be concerned about the damn breaking and a flood happening. He wanted to buy thousands of sandbags. People started asking about how much notice we would get if the damn weakened or broke, how long it took to fill a bag, place it, where we could get the sand ... I went to Google maps and found out we're not only eight miles from the damn but we're just a few feet lower than it ... and than the tens of square miles between us and it would lower the water level so much that a flood would be impossible. The more likely something is to happen, the more costly something is (the value of a life is considered infinite), the more we're going to focus on it. If the likelyhood of something happening is so small (asteroid lands on campus) or the impact is so small we have better things to worry about. Earthquakes, fires, terrorism, labor strikes, pandemic, data breach, and urban riots are all separate books in our collection. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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.gov never plans for things that haven’t previously happened. You look at what's possible, what's probable, and what's most painful assigning scores to each. An a large +8.0 earthquake is possible, slightly probable, and highly painful = high score. A blizzard is possible, highly un-probable and somewhat painful = lower or medium score. A group of 10-12 guys sit around a board arguing these things for hours before we even start. One guy said we should be concerned about the damn breaking and a flood happening. He wanted to buy thousands of sandbags. People started asking about how much notice we would get if the damn weakened or broke, how long it took to fill a bag, place it, where we could get the sand ... I went to Google maps and found out we're not only eight miles from the damn but we're just a few feet lower than it ... and than the tens of square miles between us and it would lower the water level so much that a flood would be impossible. The more likely something is to happen, the more costly something is (the value of a life is considered infinite), the more we're going to focus on it. If the likelyhood of something happening is so small (asteroid lands on campus) or the impact is so small we have better things to worry about. Earthquakes, fires, terrorism, labor strikes, pandemic, data breach, and urban riots are all separate books in our collection. Exactly how big is this dam? What calculations did you use to come up with idea that you won't be flooded? I'm assuming you have a strong scientific background with a lot of physics thrown in... We were flooded out once, the dam was a LOT fucking further away than 8 miles, it damn near washed the town away. We had 6' of water going through our lands. |
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As the designated EM liaison for my unit of local government, I'd say that most entities do have a plan.
It's one of the requirements for obtaining any kind of federal reimbursement after a disaster. No plan, no $$$. Now with that said, there's a yuge degree of variance in how seriously each of those political subdivisions - states, counties, parishes, townships, cities, villages et al - take their role in actually being ready to implement those plans. Some have real supplies stockpiled for responders and citizens, do drills - at least TTX's, if not FE's or FSE's - and have a real understanding of what needs to happen in the first 24-72 hours. Others? Let's just say that as much as they appear to trust their uniformed emergency services staff they should be paying them a whole lot more money. But hey, it's not like it'll ever really happen, right? |
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County dependent, I’d imagine.
Our county has protocols for natural disasters. |
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Your wife is wrong. FEMA just writes checks and provides resources. In CA, every local government worker has a disaster role. My City has an Emergency Operations Center, linked with the County EOC and County Office of Emergency Services. We have plans for storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, terrorist attacks, natural gas explosions, fire storms, civil unrest, pandemic flu or other disease issues. Continuity of government isn't just for the Feds... View Quote We even have designated vest colors with labels on the back I'm a green vest with COMMUNICATIONS across the back. We work in the "quiet" section of the dedicated emergency center. We do a full dress drill annually where there's 125-150 people in the center running all systems. Last year we did a terrorist attack with bombs at the local power sub-station. It was glorious. Everyone got to play. Bomb techs, police, fire ... emergency power from public works ... lots of fun for an eight hour day. My team trains every month, an hour meeting after working hours, and we have a couple of our own practice drills a year. We meet once a week on the air and chat too. |
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Quoted:Of course not, they are too busy spending your money on other shit that is vaguely documented or regulated. They don't have time for planning shit. In addition, I think the general population is under the misguided assumption that everything is well planned and they will be cared for. With the 4th generation of welfare society being born, why would they think otherwise? These are the same individuals that think law enforcement is there to protect them individually. View Quote In my local community they have set-up systems outside the government. The local churches connect together. They connect to a district office. That district office connects to a state one. That state one connects to the churches headquarters about 9 hours away. These people have a years worth of food and water in their homes. Everyone I know has food and water put aside. Everyone that works for me, everyone I'm friends with, all the neighbors I talk to ... everyone. I honestly think people are way better than you give them credit for and I hope you're just having a shitty day rather than feeling this badly about everyone. I know for a fact you're wrong about the world around me ... can't speak about the world around you. |
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My wife works for local county (payroll) During the hurricanes they had a solid what to do plan every department had a plan. Non essential personal (payroll) did not have to report in until all power was restored and things returned to normal.
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Quoted:Government is worthless when a serious tragedy happens. All one has to do is look back at a few disasters such as Katrina, Floyd, Fires in Cali, 9/11 and the list goes on. When the shit hits, you better be prepared to save your own ass! View Quote |
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Critical infrastructure and "key peeps" (basically highest level politicians and their fams in your AO).
Everyone else is on their own. Anything needed can and will be commandeered for the "public" (key peeps) good. Not so important political peeps will make cameo appearances at ICS. Maybe catch a ride on a choppa for a photo op. |
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Here in South Florida we have pretend ( Facade ) emergency plans in place... EOC here is dilusional...
No way do we have the resources available to handle major EOW catastrophe or any major SHTF emergencies... We have service for moderate to intermediate emergencies but nothing to handle the huge population of the elderly or needy... 50% of the people around here would die in the first 90 days. No one around here knows how to survive with-out their I phone / Android devices. Once the power goes out and people lose the connection to the internet it’s SHTF time x 10 with no plans in place... |
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LOL, this reminds me of back about 20 years ago, our local paper ran an article on how the local EMS and Fire Dept. were prepared for any environmental disaster.
The very next month, a semi ran over a car (I mean ran over it and left a wheel track down the drivers side), killed the driver, and went into my dad's pond that has a creek running into and out of it. Diesel fuel was pouring into the pond, and the local EMS manager was at the wreck scene. I asked how they were going to stop the diesel going down the creek, and he had a deer in headlights look. The finally wound up hiring a private contractor from a town 60 miles away to clean up the fuel contaminated dirt and put out absorbent floats in the pond (AFTER most of the fuel ran down the creek. ) Yeah, really prepared.... |
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Quoted:Agreed. I am involved in planning but in a large disaster like New Madrid FEMA will be overwhelmed. Plan accordingly. View Quote Most don't want to pay for an emergency infrastructure to handle everything possible at any scale. |
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Probably only the top 10 richest counties in the nation have the financial resources to even try to do that. Plans are one thing - having the cash, people, vehicles and practiced logistics is a totally different beast.
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Our county will train civilians in disaster recovery, basic first aid and the final is a mass trauma exercise. Since we so many Fed agencies and proximity to DC, probably some plans in place.
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8 miles away, and you're below its level, and you came to the conclusion that a flood is impossible? Exactly how big is this dam? What calculations did you use to come up with idea that you won't be flooded? I'm assuming you have a strong scientific background with a lot of physics thrown in... We were flooded out once, the dam was a LOT fucking further away than 8 miles, it damn near washed the town away. We had 6' of water going through our lands. View Quote Eight miles away with lots and lots and LOTS of downhill real estate in a 180 degree path from the damn. There's room for tens of thousands of lakes worth of water before the level would come towards us ... and every sand bag on the planet wouldn't save us. Between the local city of a quarter million and the air base they've got about 40 professional engineers working for them. I was told there was zero chance of the water making it down into the wide valley and then uphill 350 feet to our command eight miles away, up valley, on the opposite side of the valley from the damn. The mass of the water would follow the valley down hill away from my command. So yeah, we're a bit under the water level of the damn ... but hundreds of feed above a hundred square miles of real estate below it. The lake ain't that big. |
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Quoted:Yeah, really prepared.... View Quote We don't deal with diesel trucks except a couple of times a year but I know the phone number for the local POL (the Air Force has a few million gallons of av-gas down the road) and they'd have the supplies. We have a couple of 55 gallon fuel spill kits for what we're likely to see at the command. |
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I am 2 hours west of DC. From the people I know who work at the county Gov the plan involves what to do when a 500000 people escape DC and head our way.
Involves turning the fairgrounds into a FEMA camp and that's about it. When that happens i know I'll have several thousand FSA invading the local Walmart to clean it out. My plan is what to do when the refugees make their way out to the rest of the country where I am and try to take over. |
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I had the local PE look it over before I said anything. Eight miles away with lots and lots and LOTS of downhill real estate in a 180 degree path from the damn. There's room for tens of thousands of lakes worth of water before the level would come towards us ... and every sand bag on the planet wouldn't save us. Between the local city of a quarter million and the air base they've got about 40 professional engineers working for them. I was told there was zero chance of the water making it down into the wide valley and then uphill 350 feet to our command eight miles away, up valley, on the opposite side of the valley from the damn. The mass of the water would follow the valley down hill away from my command. So yeah, we're a bit under the water level of the damn ... but hundreds of feed above a hundred square miles of real estate below it. The lake ain't that big. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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8 miles away, and you're below its level, and you came to the conclusion that a flood is impossible? Exactly how big is this dam? What calculations did you use to come up with idea that you won't be flooded? I'm assuming you have a strong scientific background with a lot of physics thrown in... We were flooded out once, the dam was a LOT fucking further away than 8 miles, it damn near washed the town away. We had 6' of water going through our lands. Eight miles away with lots and lots and LOTS of downhill real estate in a 180 degree path from the damn. There's room for tens of thousands of lakes worth of water before the level would come towards us ... and every sand bag on the planet wouldn't save us. Between the local city of a quarter million and the air base they've got about 40 professional engineers working for them. I was told there was zero chance of the water making it down into the wide valley and then uphill 350 feet to our command eight miles away, up valley, on the opposite side of the valley from the damn. The mass of the water would follow the valley down hill away from my command. So yeah, we're a bit under the water level of the damn ... but hundreds of feed above a hundred square miles of real estate below it. The lake ain't that big. |
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/that mirrors my city too. We even have designated vest colors with labels on the back I'm a green vest with COMMUNICATIONS across the back. We work in the "quiet" section of the dedicated emergency center. We do a full dress drill annually where there's 125-150 people in the center running all systems. Last year we did a terrorist attack with bombs at the local power sub-station. It was glorious. Everyone got to play. Bomb techs, police, fire ... emergency power from public works ... lots of fun for an eight hour day. My team trains every month, an hour meeting after working hours, and we have a couple of our own practice drills a year. We meet once a week on the air and chat too. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Your wife is wrong. FEMA just writes checks and provides resources. In CA, every local government worker has a disaster role. My City has an Emergency Operations Center, linked with the County EOC and County Office of Emergency Services. We have plans for storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, terrorist attacks, natural gas explosions, fire storms, civil unrest, pandemic flu or other disease issues. Continuity of government isn't just for the Feds... We even have designated vest colors with labels on the back I'm a green vest with COMMUNICATIONS across the back. We work in the "quiet" section of the dedicated emergency center. We do a full dress drill annually where there's 125-150 people in the center running all systems. Last year we did a terrorist attack with bombs at the local power sub-station. It was glorious. Everyone got to play. Bomb techs, police, fire ... emergency power from public works ... lots of fun for an eight hour day. My team trains every month, an hour meeting after working hours, and we have a couple of our own practice drills a year. We meet once a week on the air and chat too. California, as screwed up as it is, has disaster management down. The hurricane Katrina fiasco was largely caused by the ineptitude of the Louisiana Governor and New Orleans mayor. If Gavin Newsom and every other politician in CA suddenly got nuked, I could run the incident with a Fire Battalion Chief, depending on whether it was a crime or an act of war and we would get through it. We, CA government, used SEMS and ICS, long before the Feds decided to implement NIMS after 911. |
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Quoted:FL has their stuff wired tight. Saw it in Hancock County MS after Katrina. The local EMA director admitted they were not prepared. Hootie should go on the speaking circuit with what they learned. View Quote I wonder why the common person would think a government could be so powerful to stop the damage that a category five hurricane does when it hits a major metropolitan area. It would likely take a 1:1 ratio of tax payer who needs help to local rescue tech at the ready. I also wonder why the common people would have any idea on their communities level of preparedness. Maybe I work for the only federal agency that has an emergency plan and live in the only city with one too ... or could it be possibly that unless I was on the command's emergency management team and a communications volunteer for the city I would be clueless? |
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Our county will train civilians in disaster recovery, basic first aid and the final is a mass trauma exercise. Since we so many Fed agencies and proximity to DC, probably some plans in place. View Quote For $25 they get a bucket of stuff - gas wrench, flash light, identification card and vest ... a bunch of first aid stuff. They get trained in community CPR and learn how to help their families and community following a disaster. |
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Yes...beg, whine, and cry for the gov of the state to call out the national guard. Hopefully, before the burning and looting happens in their neighborhood.
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Quoted:Is your RACES like our CERT teams? Community/Citizen's Emergency Response Team, it's composed of citizens who volunteer and receive basic disaster training. They organize by block and neighborhood and would do most of the checking on old folks, disaster damage survey, etc. We, as in police, use them as a "force multiplier" and they have their own comms based on ham radio volunteers. I attend many of their meetings and help with some of the training, but Fire is the main liaison and trainers, for obvious reasons.
California, as screwed up as it is, has disaster management down. The hurricane Katrina fiasco was largely caused by the ineptitude of the Louisiana Governor and New Orleans mayor. If Gavin Newsom and every other politician in CA suddenly got nuked, I could run the incident with a Fire Battalion Chief, depending on whether it was a crime or an act of war and we would get through it. We, CA government, used SEMS and ICS, long before the Feds decided to implement NIMS after 911. View Quote I work the amateur radio frequencies for the city government during an emergency. We've got three repeaters - a 440 in a local home near the top of the valley rim, a 2 meter 750 feet above the valley on top of a mountain, and a 1.25 meter at my military command on the valley floor. We have a dedicated, self-contained, tax grant funded, trailer with HF/UHF radio and even TV capabilities. |
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Of course every State, County and City have SHTF plans. Most of these are only a passing narrative to some simple and worthless steps that they may take. Bottom line is that any "real" SHTF event would overwhelm all govt entities including the Feds. I am confident that most know this, especially the feds. A real event like a nation wide EMP would end with 80-90% of the population dead within a year or so. You have to plan to do what you can and not expect any help.
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No pics of wife she says the government to disorganized to have a local plan She does think the Feds do have a plan to protect the higher ups This conversation came after watching a dumb end of the world movie. The survivalist were bad and ate people. I showed her the county Emergency Management division, she said thats just for minor stuff not for the end of the world does your county have a plan, to redistribute needed supplies?? any written plans would be appreciated View Quote |
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For "end of the world"?
LOL, no one plans for that. It would be useless, by definition. Best thing in that case is to plan for a helluva party. |
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That’s what you think. Plans are kept low key. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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.gov never plans for things that haven’t previously happened. This. What I thinks All gas stations, food stores will get seized,Some sooner than later I do think plans of siezure are SOPs |
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It depends on the jurisdiction/agency. Not all governments are created equal.
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Quoted: does your county have a plan, to redistribute needed supplies?? View Quote |
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I write continuity plans for small cites and counties that cannot afford a full time Emergency Management office. . I'm also an ICS instructor. Decent money.
Folks are confusing continuity planning with disaster planning. They are not the same. The COOP ensures the survival of whatever agency. Everybody has one. Even your local library or water dept. Not only govt agencies either, private industry is big on COOP as well. It does not have to be a major disaster, an agency will activate it's COOP if a water pipe breaks in the ceiling and floods the building. The DP ensures the survival of everybody else that agency serves. THAT's where the big money and resources comes in. COOPs and DP writeups are mandated under federal law and exercised/updated on a regular basis. There are three levels of testing an agency must regularly undergo or Uncle Sam gets pissed. BTW< no one give a shit about your guns and preps. You can stop building that bunker now. |
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Went to my county’s SHTF planning meeting and it began and ended with the welfare class, keeping them fed and watered and housed to keep them from causing problems.
Everyone else will rebuild if the welfare class isn’t causing trouble was the underlined/unspoken understanding. |
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My observation has been that most counties/cities have a written plan of some sort for a small number of emergency types. In our city they have a specific plan for tornado, hazmat spill, and hurricane. The rest would be pretty much ad-hoc. Even then, they are limited in the response they can support and assume that the FEMA cavalry will arrive within 72 hours. Even there, most cities/counties that I've seen don't have backup power for water pumping and sewage processing. Those that do have limited fuel for them. Our city had generators at the water towers and the neighborhood sewage pumping stations during the last 2 big hurricanes. But, they had limited fuel and had to refuel almost daily.
One thing I've noticed since my experience in PR: None of the EM folks have a good fall-back plan for a sudden widespread power outage, particularly one that might be compounded by damage to the communications infrastructure. Lots of departments have taken advantage of .gov cheese grants to get fancy new digital comms systems. Problem is, those are worth bupkis when power is out for an extended period or damage to the repeaters, land lines and cell towers occurred. I saw it in spades in PR and it even happened more recently with Michael coming ashore in the panhandle of Florida. Cell towers and UHF/VHF repeaters were offline and first responders had no way to communicate more than a few miles, if at all. Even one of the EOCs was cut off during Michael and one of the SHARES operators was able to contact a ham near the EOC to go find out and report their status back to SHARES who fed it back to FEMA. If you want to get an idea of the magnitude of the problem, a good read can be found here: Catastrophic Power Outage Note that the notion of a national-level grid down used to be considered ridiculous until nefarious actors managed to break in to grid control systems in 24 states back in 2017. Obviously, the fact that 3.4 million people in Puerto Rico got cut off from civilization did not go unnoticed by some folks in the emergency management arena. The notion that a local entity can handle anything that happens locally is simply not realistic. That's why most are set up to try to stabilize the situation until help and resources can arrive from elsewhere. In a national-level SHTF, help likely won't be forthcoming. That's why it's important for individuals/families to be self-sustaining for at least 2 weeks to a month or more. Heck, in PR, there was no gasoline being transported at all until the end of the 2nd week after Maria and only then to hospitals and first responders. Have your stuff and a plan to be self-sustaining for a good while. You may never have to go 2 weeks (or 2 months) without any outside resources, but if you do, you'll be glad you were prepared. |
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As an employee of the county medical examiners office I know that in case of a mass casualty incident that there is already a location for “temporary interment” of thousands of victims already earmarked. The county also has thousands of body bags in storage. View Quote That sounds pretty pessimistic in numbers. However, I do know that there are some pretty significant plans in place around here. We've got 14 million or thereabouts people in Southern California and if we ever have a really really big earthquake, keeping that many people fed and watered and pooped is going to be a headache of some magnitude. The Feds have been generous with $$ for preps for years, and unlike most of the anti-big government, the Feds are the devil types around here, most counties will accept those $$. |
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The county I live in, in Utah doesn’t even have body bags for us.
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