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Posted: 12/7/2021 5:47:50 AM EDT
[#1]
No shit
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Posted: 12/7/2021 5:49:57 AM EDT
[#2]
If there's one thing iv'e learned over my course of time going to the gym, if you're stronger then me, you're juicing.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 5:59:44 AM EDT
[#3]
There is no substitute for genetics. You have to have that natural foundation.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:02:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Steroids…mostly. Followed by dedication & an insane workout schedule.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:03:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Genetics is probably the single biggest factor, since it even determines how well you'll respond to the drugs. But drugs and work,ethic & consistency are pretty damn important, too.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:08:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If there's one thing iv'e learned over my course of time going to the gym, if you're stronger then me, you're juicing. I don’t know if I’d go that far to make that assumption. With that said I recently looked at raw power lifting records in Iowa...at 165 pounds in the tested category the record was just over 1100...in the untested category it was over 1400...that’s a significant increase from drugs. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:12:48 AM EDT
[#7]
Without doubt.....genetics is #1. Willing to put in more work separates them from most gym goers. You can train just as hard and take more steroids but you will never achieve what a genetically gifted bodybuilder can achieve...no way in hell.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:13:20 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: This goes against everything I’ve ever believed that they actually worked harder to insane levels and the drugs just helped them a bit. I think the common misconception people have is that steroids are 'cheating' and make things 'easier'. When you're talking about pro level athletes, they use PEDs to work even harder than they otherwise could. It's still an immense amount of work. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:15:56 AM EDT
[#9]
I watched a documentary on Ronnie Coleman a while back. I think it was Flex Wheeler being interviewed and he said when he asked Ronnie how much he had cheated on his diet Ronnie just gave him a puzzeld look. Meaning cheating hadn’t even crossed his mind. Consuming 10,000 + calories a day every day of lean protein, vegetables and healthy type carbs is no small task. And yes, genetics counts for maybe half when you’re talking pro level. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:18:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched a documentary on Ronnie Coleman a while back. I think it was Flex Wheeler being interviewed and he said when he asked Ronnie how much he had cheated on his diet Ronnie just gave him a puzzeld look. Meaning cheating hadn’t even crossed his mind. Consuming 10,000 + calories a day every day of lean protein, vegetables and healthy type carbs is no small task. And yes, genetics counts for maybe half when you’re talking pro level. No doubt Ronnie had good genetics. He actually stood on the Olympia stage as a natural. He just didn’t start winning until he got on drugs. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:36:00 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t know if I’d go that far to make that assumption. With that said I recently looked at raw power lifting records in Iowa...at 165 pounds in the tested category the record was just over 1100...in the untested category it was over 1400...that’s a significant increase from drugs. But, and to your point, not that big of a difference. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:36:59 AM EDT
[#12]
Phil Heath is 4ft tall.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:42:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But, and to your point, not that big of a difference. 21.5% increase is quite a bit. Think of how much a 21.5% increase in your take home pay is. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:46:17 AM EDT
[#14]
In order of importance
Genetics Mindset Time Money Drugs |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 6:55:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t know if I’d go that far to make that assumption. With that said I recently looked at raw power lifting records in Iowa...at 165 pounds in the tested category the record was just over 1100...in the untested category it was over 1400...that’s a significant increase from drugs. 3 lift? Bench, deads, abd squat? Can't be right. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:01:48 AM EDT
[#16]
This is a natural body pretty much near it's peak. He did this before PEDs were a thing.
He's 5'9" about 180 lbs. Sure you can get bigger and stronger, but you are going to be fatter too. Guys with huge capped shoulders and a head that is far too small for their body are likely on something. Plenty of guys aren't though, and work really hard. Any pro bodybuilders you see are for sure on something, just like with sports, it's the only way you are going to be competitive. 
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:17:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3 lift? Bench, deads, abd squat? Can't be right. Yes at 160 lbs natural I’m near 1100 total myself that is why I checked what the records are. I’ve been lifting most of my life. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:18:36 AM EDT
[#18]
I'm just shocked.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:29:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Phil Heath is 4ft tall. My buddy is a bodybuilder and owns a gym in Denver. Phil H. works out there all the time. We all had dinner one night after one of my buddy’s shows. I ended up sitting next to Phil. From my very limited interaction with him he seemed like a really nice guy. Yeah he’s not super tall but it’s astonishing how big that dude is when you’re literally shoulder to shoulder with him. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:40:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Did I make it in before GD takes only bits and pieces of a post about steroid use in competitive bodybuilding, and uses it as a broad brush against literally anyone who has muscle definition?
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:47:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Diet is more of a factor than genetics until you hit top level competitions.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:47:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Why are steroids not OTC?
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:48:14 AM EDT
[#23]
I've alway been asked if I was Jucing, I've just been big my whole life. I knew if I wanted to be "in shape" and not just a fat big guy, I needed to start lifting early so I started at 13.
IMO it was me starting lifting then that allowed me to develop the muscle maturity I did so early, and with that came muscle memory and the ability to grow fast and stay even when not used that much. After D1 football stopped b/c of a shoulder issue I didn't lift for close to 10 years and still looked muscular and large. Then I got the bug to start lifting again and blew the fuck up like I was on Juice but I'm not. Back to being a Trap Monster, and I turn 40 in a couple weeks 6'3 320lbs Going to start cutting after the holidays  Attached FileOK So I guess I'm not "Natty" taking prescribed TCT to bring me back to normal. That fine with me. I guess I put on all this muscle in the last 8 month  |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 7:49:39 AM EDT
[#24]
This guy is one of the latest up and coming guys. He’s the same height as me, but 100 lbs more muscle. This video shows his early days vs current. Safe to say he’s a hyper responder.
Nick Walker |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:11:29 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a natural body pretty much near it's peak. He did this before PEDs were a thing. He's 5'9" about 180 lbs. Sure you can get bigger and stronger, but you are going to be fatter too. Guys with huge capped shoulders and a head that is far too small for their body are likely on something. Plenty of guys aren't though, and work really hard. Any pro bodybuilders you see are for sure on something, just like with sports, it's the only way you are going to be competitive. https://fitnessvolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/eugen-sandow-profile.jpg You can still get significant improvement (more bulk, little additional fat) over his condition there without drugs. Not MUCH, but enough to notice. It's pretty much all around knowledge about diet and exercise, mostly cycling them. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:11:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've alway been asked if I was Jucing, I've just been big my whole life. I knew if I wanted to be "in shape" and not just a fat big guy, I needed to start lifting early so I started at 13. IMO it was me starting lifting then that allowed me to develop the muscle maturity I did so early, and with that came muscle memory and the ability to grow fast and stay even when not used that much. After D1 football stopped b/c of a shoulder issue I didn't lift for close to 10 years and still looked muscular and large. Then I got the big to start lifting again and blew the fuck up like I was on Juice but I'm not. Back to being a Trap Monster, and I turn 40 in a couple weeks 6'3 320lbs Going to start cutting after the holidays https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251314/20211102_065000_jpg-2195177.JPG All credit to you if you really are natty, but I would have an incredibly hard time believing you're not on gear. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:13:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've alway been asked if I was Jucing, I've just been big my whole life. I knew if I wanted to be "in shape" and not just a fat big guy, I needed to start lifting early so I started at 13. IMO it was me starting lifting then that allowed me to develop the muscle maturity I did so early, and with that came muscle memory and the ability to grow fast and stay even when not used that much. After D1 football stopped b/c of a shoulder issue I didn't lift for close to 10 years and still looked muscular and large. Then I got the big to start lifting again and blew the fuck up like I was on Juice but I'm not. Back to being a Trap Monster, and I turn 40 in a couple weeks 6'3 320lbs Going to start cutting after the holidays https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251314/20211102_065000_jpg-2195177.JPG I hate you big guys lol. This is me at 46. I’m 47 now and a little bigger, but in the middle of a bulk.  |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:17:44 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All credit to you if you really are natty, but I would have an incredibly hard time believing you're not on gear. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:19:54 AM EDT
[#29]
They have awesome genetics, hard work ethic, great nutritional habits and are on all the BEST drugs and closely monitored by docs.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:21:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the truth, no gear, considering it slightly, but I started testosterone replacement therapy 8month ago. Went and got blood work b/c I felt like I was lacking energy, was in the 2xx's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All credit to you if you really are natty, but I would have an incredibly hard time believing you're not on gear. Dude, TRT is gear. You're not natty. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:22:51 AM EDT
[#31]
Bodybuilding is gay.
(Citation: this thread).  Bodybuilding competitions involve piling up and posing. Bodybuilding gyms have mirrors. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:24:20 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Steroidsmostly. Followed by dedication & an insane workout schedule. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:24:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Why are body builders usually shorter than most guys?
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:25:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Anabolics take off the governor, but you still have to be doing everything right to reap those benefits. Nutrition, training, discipline, and work ethic must all be in check before the benefit of anabolics can be realized. Tons of people lean on them to do all the work and still look like disgusting fat tubs of shit. But at the same time, aside from rigorously tested leagues, you’ll never be competitive as a bodybuilder without gear.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:25:21 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are body builders usually shorter than most guys? You know the answer. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:25:50 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've alway been asked if I was Jucing, I've just been big my whole life. I knew if I wanted to be "in shape" and not just a fat big guy, I needed to start lifting early so I started at 13. IMO it was me starting lifting then that allowed me to develop the muscle maturity I did so early, and with that came muscle memory and the ability to grow fast and stay even when not used that much. After D1 football stopped b/c of a shoulder issue I didn't lift for close to 10 years and still looked muscular and large. Then I got the bug to start lifting again and blew the fuck up like I was on Juice but I'm not. Back to being a Trap Monster, and I turn 40 in a couple weeks 6'3 320lbs Going to start cutting after the holidays https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251314/20211102_065000_jpg-2195177.JPG I'm 42, and started lifting early in life. I would go to the gym before PT in the Army. I've never touched any type of steroid or take any testosterone supplement, but am abnormally large. Creatine, protein, genetics, and gym time. I use the gym as my drug of choice, instead of drinking, smoking, etc. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:26:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the truth, no gear, considering it slightly, but I started testosterone replacement therapy 8month ago. Went and got blood work b/c I felt like I was lacking energy, was in the 2xx's. So you're all natural, not on "gear," but taking supplemental Test? |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:28:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No doubt Ronnie had good genetics. He actually stood on the Olympia stage as a natural. He just didn’t start winning until he got on drugs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I watched a documentary on Ronnie Coleman a while back. I think it was Flex Wheeler being interviewed and he said when he asked Ronnie how much he had cheated on his diet Ronnie just gave him a puzzeld look. Meaning cheating hadn’t even crossed his mind. Consuming 10,000 + calories a day every day of lean protein, vegetables and healthy type carbs is no small task. And yes, genetics counts for maybe half when you’re talking pro level. No doubt Ronnie had good genetics. He actually stood on the Olympia stage as a natural. He just didn’t start winning until he got on drugs. Sure he did. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:28:49 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bodybuilding is gay. (Citation: this thread). Bodybuilding competitions involve piling up and posing. Bodybuilding gyms have mirrors. Oh come on, every guy loves trading pics of oiled up muscled guys. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:29:46 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're all natural, not on "gear," but taking supplemental Test? |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:29:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes at 160 lbs natural I’m near 1100 total myself that is why I checked what the records are. I’ve been lifting most of my life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 3 lift? Bench, deads, abd squat? Can't be right. Yes at 160 lbs natural I’m near 1100 total myself that is why I checked what the records are. I’ve been lifting most of my life. I find this hard to believe. I was doing 1250 at 165-170lbs. Age 19/20 and a height of 5'8" I wasn't even that strong compared to most of my lifting friends. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:30:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh come on, every guy loves trading pics of oiled up muscled guys. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bodybuilding is gay. (Citation: this thread). Bodybuilding competitions involve piling up and posing. Bodybuilding gyms have mirrors. Oh come on, every guy loves trading pics of oiled up muscled guys. Who doesn’t?? |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:31:33 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If there's one thing iv'e learned over my course of time going to the gym, if you're stronger then me, you're juicing. A doctor told me it’s easy to spot. He claimed anyone outside of the gym with the vein popping swollen muscles that the average guy only sees in the middle or right at the end of a workout is definitely on steroids. He said that look only happens naturally from the blood flow during a workout. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:32:12 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just started it 8 month ago, b/c my shit was low. As far as i know that is not considered gear, but if you want to fine, I don't care. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you're all natural, not on "gear," but taking supplemental Test? I guess this is subjective, but TRT is just supposed to get someone up to baseline. I guess in the strictest sense it’s not natural, but I don’t consider it using gear. Not that there’s anything wrong with that either. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:32:51 AM EDT
[#45]
There was a scientific study that showed taking steroids and sitting on the couch resulted in greater muscle gains than working out without steroids.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:33:05 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just started it 8 month ago, b/c my shit was low. As far as i know that is not considered gear, but if you want to fine, I don't care. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you're all natural, not on "gear," but taking supplemental Test? Pretty much every natty athletic organization doesn't allow it. It it a PED. I have nothing against it or any other drug, but you're not natty. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:33:48 AM EDT
[#47]
Agreed. I’m 5’7 170lbs. I bench like 200lbs.
Some of these dudes my size are lifting 330+. Insane. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:35:30 AM EDT
[#48]
Most importantly they have body dysmorphia.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:35:58 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the truth, no gear, considering it slightly, but I started testosterone replacement therapy 8month ago. Went and got blood work b/c I felt like I was lacking energy, was in the 2xx's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All credit to you if you really are natty, but I would have an incredibly hard time believing you're not on gear. TRT is “gear” |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:36:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude, TRT is gear. You're not natty. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: All credit to you if you really are natty, but I would have an incredibly hard time believing you're not on gear. Dude, TRT is gear. You're not natty. |
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