User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 2:34:19 PM EDT
[#1]
How could any general not realize that the S Vietnamese that were on our side wouldn't want to get the hell out of there when the North took over the country is beyond me. Just like those assholes stay above the fray while their own soldiers are being killed, they didn't give a shit about our allies in the country. The fact that we were pushing perfectly good equipment into the sea to get more refugees on the ships says everything about the war. They were blind the whole time and they made it home safe. I would have traded the entire congress for a few more refugees.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 2:38:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Debatable. Russian pilots were already flying their MIGs.  How do we know that? Did we pick up radio chatter? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 2:40:15 PM EDT
[#3]
For Russian forces to have had any meaningful access to Viet Nam, they would have had to gotten land access though China and the Chinese and Soviets were on hostile terms at the time.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 2:40:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would have traded the entire congress for a few more refugees. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 2:55:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For Russian forces to have had any meaningful access to Viet Nam, they would have had to gotten land access though China and the Chinese and Soviets were on hostile terms at the time. It seems like a huge mistake on our part in not seeing the animosity in every direction, and capitalizing in it. The Soviets, the Chinese, the (north) Vietnamese, the Laotians... none cared much for the other, despite the shared Marxist ideology justifying their governments. The newly unified Communist Vietnam would find itself at war with China within 4 years. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 3:09:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Did we "win" in Korea/Vietnam? Doesn't matter. We just lost America. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 3:33:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Regarding Vietnam... as the old adage goes "we were winning when I left." I have said that many times. I think our involvement in Vietnam is deeper than most realize. Even back in Ike's days we had begun funding the French so they would not lose French Indochina. It was our hope they would succeed and our troops would not be involved. That ended at Dien Bien Phu and Kennedy stepped in to stop the communists. Both my brother and I went, did what we could. But I don't think either of us would claim we won. We won't claim we lost either. It is up to history to decide. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 3:37:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We broke even in Korea. The politicians lost Vietnam. Westmoreland lost Vietnam...but I'm not sure that 'winning' was ever the point, I've known a few guys that were over there and they all felt the same- old men sending young men off to fight while they get rich. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 3:41:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Westmoreland lost Vietnam...but I'm not sure that 'winning' was ever the point, I've known a few guys that were over there and they all felt the same- old men sending young men off to fight while they get rich. This is patently wrong but I am not shocked anytime people GD start discussing wars incorrectly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 3:59:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Westmoreland lost Vietnam...but I'm not sure that 'winning' was ever the point, I've known a few guys that were over there and they all felt the same- old men sending young men off to fight while they get rich. Westmorland was wearing a straightjacket from LBJ and McNamara. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 4:05:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Westmorland was wearing a straightjacket from LBJ and McNamara. Ding Ding we have a winner. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2021 5:43:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Debatable. Russian pilots were already flying their MIGs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It doesnt seem like we tried to win VN at all. IIRC it came out in recent years that we were disclosing bombing targets ahead of time, and limiting attacks to ineffective targets anyway. I havent studied why that was, but how can you win a war with that strategy? Strategic key military targets were prohibited from bombing in the North. We could have owned N. Vietnam with a sane bombing policy. And then Russia would have stepped in, and we would have lost even harder. Debatable. Russian pilots were already flying their MIGs. Deniably. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:20:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were? How do we know that? Did we pick up radio chatter?Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Debatable. Russian pilots were already flying their MIGs. How do we know that? Did we pick up radio chatter?Yup. Plenty of communications were picked up by both sides. USAF and USN had tons of aircraft and ships cruising just listening to everything. The russians even had "fishing trawlers" hanging out by Guam to alert NV of the incoming B-52 missions that would hit a few hours later. Anderson AFB is based in Guam and that is where most of the B-52 missions were launched from throughout the war. Later on, there was another base in Thailand that B-52s took off from. Getting back to the MiGs, the biggest loss for the NVAF however, was when USN Lt. Cunningham shot down a MiG-17 piloted by Col. Tomb in 1972. US ElInt aircraft picked up the communications that he died. So while a few russian pilots may have gotten shot down, the most notable shootdown was Vietnamese, not russian. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:23:43 AM EDT
[#14]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:44:23 AM EDT
[#15]
The next domino that fell was Cambodia, but that was about it.
So strategically, yes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:58:52 AM EDT
[#16]
The Communists in North Vietnam violated the Paris Peace accord. Had Watergate not taken place the US would have waged an air war against them and South Vietnam would probably not have collapsed.
So, we fought the North Vietnamese until they gave up, which was our goal. It was peace with honor, but then Watergate happened and the USA lost all stomach to punish them when they violated their agreement. So we did what we wanted to do, but didn’t follow through. Kind of like how we dropped the ball after defeating the Russians in Afghanistan. We’re trying to avoid this result in Afghanistan and Iraq today. Only time will tell if we’re successful. The fear of the military establishment is that we’ll pull out and not have the political motivation to re-engage if our proxy governments fall. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 11:53:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The next domino that fell was Cambodia, but that was about it. So strategically, yes. And Cambodia didn't fall to Global Communism but to some weird home-grown despotism calling itself communist. Communism is not anti-intellectual; it was as much shamanistic anti-Viet chauvinism as anything else. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 11:54:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Communists in North Vietnam violated the Paris Peace accord. Had Watergate not taken place the US would have waged an air war against them and South Vietnam would probably not have collapsed. So, we fought the North Vietnamese until they gave up, which was our goal. It was peace with honor, but then Watergate happened and the USA lost all stomach to punish them when they violated their agreement. So we did what we wanted to do, but didn’t follow through. Kind of like how we dropped the ball after defeating the Russians in Afghanistan. We’re trying to avoid this result in Afghanistan and Iraq today. Only time will tell if we’re successful. The fear of the military establishment is that we’ll pull out and not have the political motivation to re-engage if our proxy governments fall. One of the oddest things about US foreign policy is our avowed interest in exporting Democracy all the while supporting and protecting unpopular puppet governments against their own people. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:00:48 PM EDT
[#19]
We’ve been losing since 1913.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:13:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We’ve been losing since 1913. Big government got its hooks in with the income tax. All she wrote. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:25:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were? How do we know that? Did we pick up radio chatter?Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Debatable. Russian pilots were already flying their MIGs. How do we know that? Did we pick up radio chatter?they were rotating in and out 'special advisors' to teach them to fly the Migs. They were backseaters during some aerial dogfights. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:34:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Worldwide communist aggression was stopped or slowed while we fought them in Vietnam. Hard to prove it but ca
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/25/2021 12:57:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Westmoreland lost Vietnam...but I'm not sure that 'winning' was ever the point, I've known a few guys that were over there and they all felt the same- old men sending young men off to fight while they get rich. Westmoreland was cockblocked by Johnson, Macnamara, and Ambassador Sullivan. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
