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Posted: 2/10/2021 11:09:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Dayum!
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Posted: 2/10/2021 11:18:47 AM EDT
[#2]
I would like to see a couple of photos of an undamaged link.
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Posted: 2/10/2021 11:23:47 AM EDT
[#3]
What kind of reaction did the a/c have, wherever you were at in the landing?
Was it like "oh, huh...that looks bad"  , or "oh, fuck!"  
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Posted: 2/10/2021 11:58:42 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would like to see a couple of photos of an undamaged link. I never get to see the flaps down under normal situations. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 11:59:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What kind of reaction did the a/c have, wherever you were at in the landing? Was it like "oh, huh...that looks bad" , or "oh, fuck!" That's the interesting thing. We had no indications upon landing. The flap apparently extended fully. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 12:06:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Thats one of those times you tell MX to "fix this POS" and walk away....
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Posted: 2/10/2021 12:08:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never get to see the flaps down under normal situations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would like to see a couple of photos of an undamaged link. I never get to see the flaps down under normal situations. I don't have access to drawings now, or I would dig them up. The trusses that support the leading edge flaps were sized by the Russian contingent. I don't know whether they worked on that mechanism, I worked on -8 wing ribs for almost 11 months and I found another assignment as quickly as I could. . |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 1:07:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats one of those times you tell MX to "fix this POS" and walk away....  Fix this junk...I'll be at the bar!
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Posted: 2/10/2021 2:38:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have access to drawings now, or I would dig them up. The trusses that support the leading edge flaps were sized by the Russian contingent. I don't know whether they worked on that mechanism, I worked on -8 wing ribs for almost 11 months and I found another assignment as quickly as I could. . By Russian contingent do you mean, "this thickness material, and then add 20% for 'robustness'"?  Robust: some say it means "sturdy"!  |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 2:39:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Interesting!
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Posted: 2/10/2021 3:03:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By Russian contingent do you mean, "this thickness material, and then add 20% for 'robustness'"? Robust: some say it means "sturdy"! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't have access to drawings now, or I would dig them up. The trusses that support the leading edge flaps were sized by the Russian contingent. I don't know whether they worked on that mechanism, I worked on -8 wing ribs for almost 11 months and I found another assignment as quickly as I could. . By Russian contingent do you mean, "this thickness material, and then add 20% for 'robustness'"? Robust: some say it means "sturdy"! Russian engineers are contracted by Boeing to support commercial airplane work. The help they provided on 747-8 was limited, on 777X there was a much larger contingent and the work they provided was starting to expand. I think the -8 group worked essentially through a Russian contract company, the 777X engineers were BCA employees. Here's an old article: Boeing-Moscow Design Center The -8 engineers appear to have been employees, too. During the -8 work the Russians were using an old two dimensional finite element program from one of the software packages for sizing those leading edge trusses. Someone decided that this particular program had to be sensitive IP (after all its a FINITE ELEMENT PROGRAM, so it has to be super special proprietary work!!!), so it was pulled from their use. So here they are, in the middle of sizing and an unchanging schedule, and the tool they need to make the work go fast, goes away. They were not happy, and let everyone know. I told one of the managers in the chain that there was nothing sensitive about the program in any way, it's an old McDonnell Aircraft program that had been in use since at least 1980 and probably earlier, and that undergrads all over the planet write a similar program every year. It was restored in a few days. The reason I would like to see an intact link is to see if there is a bend at the location where this one failed. I see a problem anyway, but a bend insures a problem part of that configuration. I also know who signed it off as the lead, and he was not mentally fit at the time. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 4:38:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have access to drawings now, or I would dig them up. The trusses that support the leading edge flaps were sized by the Russian contingent. I don't know whether they worked on that mechanism, I worked on -8 wing ribs for almost 11 months and I found another assignment as quickly as I could. . The plot thickens! |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 12:59:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Well that's something you don't see everyday. I was just there less than 24 hours ago.
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Posted: 2/11/2021 1:38:27 AM EDT
[#14]
When did you notice it? Postflight walkaround?
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Posted: 2/11/2021 3:24:16 AM EDT
[#15]
At least it a good place to break. Heavy MX there.
If it broke in CSX we'd never get it back. |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 12:05:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When did you notice it? Postflight walkaround? I had not even gotten out of the seat yet, when the maintenance tech entered the cockpit with his phone showing me the picture. He said, in that quintessential Hong Kong British accent, "Captain this does not look good". I knew she was a broke bird for sure. |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 12:06:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At least it a good place to break. Heavy MX there. If it broke in CSX we'd never get it back. It was still there two days latter when we flew ICN-HKG-ANC. |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 12:27:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: There I was, flying rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong, when this predicament happened. Hong Kong is not a place to get stuck these days as this bird was down hard AOG. Luckily, there was a sister ship inbound in 6 hours to rescue us. Help us earthbound folks understand. Covid related? Or? |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 2:53:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Help us earthbound folks understand. Covid related? Or? Yes, Red Commie bastards have taken over the place. Forced quarantine if you come up hot in spartan conditions with no control over your fate. HK will never be the same. I am just glad that I got to see the city in all its glory. I am counting down the days to an early retirement. It be crazy out there, yo! |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 3:32:35 PM EDT
[#20]
We had Russian engineers at Boeing Wichita, and I’ve been gone from there for 20 years.
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Posted: 2/13/2021 6:22:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian engineers are contracted by Boeing to support commercial airplane work. The help they provided on 747-8 was limited, on 777X there was a much larger contingent and the work they provided was starting to expand. I think the -8 group worked essentially through a Russian contract company, the 777X engineers were BCA employees. Here's an old article: Boeing-Moscow Design Center The -8 engineers appear to have been employees, too. During the -8 work the Russians were using an old two dimensional finite element program from one of the software packages for sizing those leading edge trusses. Someone decided that this particular program had to be sensitive IP (after all its a FINITE ELEMENT PROGRAM, so it has to be super special proprietary work!!!), so it was pulled from their use. So here they are, in the middle of sizing and an unchanging schedule, and the tool they need to make the work go fast, goes away. They were not happy, and let everyone know. I told one of the managers in the chain that there was nothing sensitive about the program in any way, it's an old McDonnell Aircraft program that had been in use since at least 1980 and probably earlier, and that undergrads all over the planet write a similar program every year. It was restored in a few days. The reason I would like to see an intact link is to see if there is a bend at the location where this one failed. I see a problem anyway, but a bend insures a problem part of that configuration. I also know who signed it off as the lead, and he was not mentally fit at the time. Dang, interesting. |
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Posted: 2/13/2021 10:04:21 AM EDT
[#22]
That's an interesting failure point. Only on the one section and only at the forward rotating part(or whatever it's called)
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Posted: 2/13/2021 10:48:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Double tap.
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Posted: 2/13/2021 10:52:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's an interesting failure point. Only on the one section and only at the forward rotating part(or whatever it's called) That's a location of high stress intensity, or concentration, where the part transitions from the lug to the C shaped cross section. There are signs of flange crippling before fracture. Crippling is a local buckling mode dependent on the cross section dimensions, and independent of the length of the flanges. I would like to know whether the part is straight, or curved at the failure. Also note that the link above appears to be bent, possibly buckled. It's possible there was a single curve in the part for clearance, but not likely. The axial capability of the two parts, especially in compression, is not close. I'd need to see the geometry in the mechanism to understand how they relate. There is a link in the idler where that part failed, so it's carrying a shear, bending moment, and axial load at the failure location. If there is a reduction in depth of the cross section at the failure, that aggravates the condition. I would look for a jam condition, and expect whatever caused it fell out. . |
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Posted: 2/13/2021 11:18:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dayum! Whelp, I think I found the problem..... Seriously, that’s impressive to see on an aircraft that big |
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Posted: 2/16/2021 5:27:40 AM EDT
[#26]
At least it’s still attached to the aircraft!
We had a B-52 #2 flap depart an aircraft last spring. IMO, I think the aft jackscrew bearing crapped out or seized and the jack screw sheared itself off. Half of the flap was never found. The other half fell off on the runway as it was coming to a stop. |
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Posted: 2/16/2021 7:09:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Check the Required Parts flight list and see if you can retract and lock out both sides. Call Boeing and get them to ship them to a base you're going to that has maintenance capabilities. Change out damaged parts. Keep on flying.
Also, review flight records to see if anyone saw a gut who looked like he was wearing a rug on the wing during flight. Or William Shatner was on board. I hate Kruegers. I hate designing them, writing up maint procedures, remove and replace procedure. Slats are much easier. |
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Posted: 2/16/2021 7:52:26 AM EDT
[#28]
So a max speed of about 800-850 mph?
Nine pieces of 100 mph tape. 20% Safety margin? Add at least two more pieces of tape. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 11:41:57 PM EDT
[#29]
What the hell happened to snap those parts like that?
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Posted: 2/18/2021 5:45:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Check the Required Parts flight list and see if you can retract and lock out both sides. Call Boeing and get them to ship them to a base you're going to that has maintenance capabilities. Change out damaged parts. Keep on flying. Also, review flight records to see if anyone saw a gut who looked like he was wearing a rug on the wing during flight. Or William Shatner was on board. I hate Kruegers. I hate designing them, writing up maint procedures, remove and replace procedure. Slats are much easier. I don't even remember if our (modified B707) performance data had numbers for taking off with no leading edge devices? Sure, we had landing data for no leading edge devices, but I just don't know about takeoff data. @aramp1 That's crazy, thanks for sharing OP. Glad you got 'er down safely. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 7:20:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What the hell happened to snap those parts like that? I wish I knew. I would have expected a little more from a 200 million dollar airplane... |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 11:41:04 PM EDT
[#32]
My guess is overspeed of the flaps.
Maybe from a previous flight crew. The hinges were probably damaged from overspeeding the flaps at one time but not to the extent of what we see here, cracked but not completely separated until you extended the flaps and those two hinges finally failed from the force of the air stream. I wonder what the other side looks like. |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 2:05:23 AM EDT
[#33]
In my opinion this thread should be removed to protect the OP.
@shotar |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 8:54:18 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my opinion this thread should be removed to protect the OP. @shotar Protect the OP from what or who? Everyone that needs to know about this already does and I'm sure the OP has been interviewed ad nauseum about the incident. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 1:32:30 PM EDT
[#35]
OP request
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