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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:35:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Ignore it
Restate your case with slightly different emotionally charged language Call them a racist or Nazi ->That's what works for the left, anyway |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:37:50 PM EDT
[#2]
When people say what happened at the capitol building was a bad riot. I point out the BLM/Antifa shit and tell them the rules have changed as others have been violently carrying out their political will and killing MANY more and they won. So why wouldn't it be fair play for the right to do the same without the death toll.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:38:22 PM EDT
[#3]
whataboutwhataboutism
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:39:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Add feelings to your argument, they love feelings.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:42:12 PM EDT
[#5]
I've had the same issue with people who just want to blame one side. Usually it really means they have no valid argument when the hypocrisy is pointed out.
I say that any of these actions cannot be viewed in a vacuum and the double standards when the same thing is done by the opposite side needs to be acknowledged to have any meaningful discussion. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:42:14 PM EDT
[#6]
That "whataboutism" is a cop out that hypocrites say when held up to their own, professed moral standards. It essentially says they dont actually have any defense and cant be held to any morality.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:42:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Whataboutism is the default reply of one who has been confronted with his hypocrisy.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:45:26 PM EDT
[#8]
cancel those losers
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:46:24 PM EDT
[#9]
A whataboutism is a method to shut down communication.
A good counter is to focus on why the whatabout was raised. Its a method to determine credibility by looking to see if someone is taking the same position when their side does something versus when the other side does the same thing. If you're outraged only when the other side does something, you're a hypocrite and the outrage is false. But if you share the same outrage independent of which side commits the act, it means your core values are higher than each side, which adds to your credibility. If that's dl:dr, just call them a shithead. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:47:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I have pointed out a couple of times in friendly debate how my friends put up with burning/looting/rioting, all damn summer long but now they are outraged. Their response? that my position is "whataboutism." Now, mind you, they don't really think that through but it makes them think they have a trump card. What are some ways you are dealing with that artifice? It's not whataboutism, its pointingouthypocrisyism that's what I tell them. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:49:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: cancel those losers This. Im done. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:50:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Laugh at them and then move on.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:50:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Once the seal of political violence was ripped open by the left what do you think is going to happen?
And it's whataboutism if you use it to justify one of them. If you are against political violence but point out who started it that isn't what about ism that is called history. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:50:43 PM EDT
[#14]
You're asking the wrong forum. GD takes whataboutism to the max.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:51:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: I have pointed out a couple of times in friendly debate how my friends put up with burning/looting/rioting, all damn summer long but now they are outraged. Their response? that my position is "whataboutism." Now, mind you, they don't really think that through but it makes them think they have a trump card. What are some ways you are dealing with that artifice? Don't accept the enemy's terms. The left is notorious for this. "Whataboutism" is a made up virtue signaling Twatter word designed to stifle debate and to avoid having to wrestle with the issues. Call them out for it. Mock them. Tell them that you don't accept "whataboutism" and force them to engage with their hypocrisy. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:53:39 PM EDT
[#16]
It's pointing out the hypocrisy and magnitude of the incidents.
They won't get it, though, because their side is "justified". |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:54:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Don't make the mistake of spending time trying to change peoples opinions. It doesn't happen cause people don't listen. In fact I'm not sure why I'm spending time to explain this because I guarantee OP is going to keep fighting with these people. AHHHHH!!! More wasted time in GD.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:55:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Based on everything I learned from the media and politicians over the summer, what happened in DC would be defined as a peaceful protest and nothing more.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:56:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Have you tried writing "non violent" on a baseball bat and smashing them in the face with it saying that you're not being violent because the bat has "non violent" written on it?
ETA: Symbolically tho, I'm not advocating violence! |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:57:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Just state the obvious, you are addressing hypocrisy of the left, has nothing to do with whataboutism.
Actually, screw that. Don't let them hide behind a weak argument. Just say, Ok, whatabout your side destroying cities? Keep pressuring. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:57:07 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't debate politics or religion
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:59:35 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:04:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Ask them how their whatabout justifies what it is they are whatabouting. Bad behavior does not justify other bad behavior. There is no justification in whatabouts.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:04:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I have pointed out a couple of times in friendly debate how my friends put up with burning/looting/rioting, all damn summer long but now they are outraged. Their response? that my position is "whataboutism." Now, mind you, they don't really think that through but it makes them think they have a trump card. What are some ways you are dealing with that artifice? I just call it what it is and say something like “‘whataboutism’, when liberals engage in hypocrisy and deflect talking about their own bad deeds”. At some point if the person won’t abandon it, I cut them off and say we have no reason to discuss anything because they insist on having two sets of rules, rules for liberals...turning a blind eye and rules for conservatives...faux outrage. The “faux outrage” allegation usually baits them back in because many of them aren’t faux outraged, they just have blinders on about their own hypocrisy. But it gets them to try to defend their double standard, which means they have to address it and talk about liberal misdeeds. Or I say, “you taught me that rioting and looting don’t matter, so I stopped caring about it. Why are you so mad now?” If they want to debate, I just keep hammering the point that a society has to exist along common and universal standards of behavior. If they want to apply double standards, then we don’t have a common society and we need to divorce. When they insist of using the double standard, then you get to accuse them of being fascist authoritarians. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:04:52 PM EDT
[#25]
It’s the new hot word
Just call it hypocrisy A good deal of what we witnessed from trumps inauguration and onward have also been insurrection. People just parrot words they heard, much like their argument. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:05:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Well 2 wrongs don't make it right!
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:05:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: I have pointed out a couple of times in friendly debate how my friends put up with burning/looting/rioting, all damn summer long but now they are outraged. Their response? that my position is "whataboutism." Now, mind you, they don't really think that through but it makes them think they have a trump card. What are some ways you are dealing with that artifice? I remind them that the term they're actually looking for is "hypocrisy". |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:07:48 PM EDT
[#28]
As has been posted, it's an attempt to assign logical fallacy when hypocrisy is pointed out. It apparently expects all actions or events to be considered in a vacuum, as any effort to apply context is "unfair".
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:09:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: I have pointed out a couple of times in friendly debate how my friends put up with burning/looting/rioting, all damn summer long but now they are outraged. Their response? that my position is "whataboutism." Now, mind you, they don't really think that through but it makes them think they have a trump card. What are some ways you are dealing with that artifice? Liberals don't like having their past actions or statements being used to expose their hypocrisy. So they created whataboutism. If you can't bring up their past actions or opinions because of "whataboutism" then it is almost impossible to expose their hypocrisy on any number of things. This allows them to take any stance they want regardless of past opinions or beliefs. So just call them hypocrites and explain that their current opinion on the capitol riot is mutually exclusive with their previous opinion on BLM Antifa riots. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:10:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whataboutism is the default reply of one who has been confronted with his hypocrisy. This. They learned it as a buzzword about 3-4 years ago and they think it's a "hypocrisy get out of jail free card". |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:16:28 PM EDT
[#31]
During a discussion of the "kids in cages" deal, one of my friends said I was using "whataboutism".
I told them that if they brought up kids in cages, and I replied talking about Hillary's emails, then sure, I would be using "whataboutism" to try to deflect. But when you lose your shit over kids in cages during the Trump administration, but didn't know or didn't care when the same exact thing happened during the Obama administration, that's not me using whataboutism, that's your own glaring hypocrisy. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:18:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Two points:
In a nation of laws, equal protection under the law means that you cannot hold different people to different standards of behavior. Whataboutism is a perfectly valid response where equal protection is at issue. Isn't this the basis of what BLM has been blathering about since forever? If you want to hold Trump voters criminally liable now, where was the outrage and enforcement for similar behavior in Portland, Kenosha, and every other place burned and looted over 'black lives'? Or is all that 'equal protection' stuff just out the window now? Its not whataboutism to point out cause and effect. If you tolerate and encourage burning, rioting, looting, violence, and other lawless behavior over perceived injustices don't be surprised when you get more of it. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:19:01 PM EDT
[#33]
City Journal is generally liberal, but this is a thoughtful piece.
https://www.city-journal.org/about-whataboutism-and-political-hypocrisy Bottom line is that it is unworkable to leave it up to individuals to decide when violence in support of a political cause is justified. For every BLM protester who thinks the violence over the summer is justified, there is someone who thinks what happened at the capital was justified. The entire point of our constitutional order is to prohibit all political violence, and resolve our disputes in an orderly and civil fashion. Do not engage in "whataboutism." Make the point that political violence (whether from the left, right, or any other direction) is a threat to the republic. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:19:30 PM EDT
[#34]
pointing out double standards isn't "whataboutism". That whole concept is specifically designed for the purpose of shutting down the pointing out of double standards.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:20:41 PM EDT
[#35]
whataboutism is valid argument IMO, just dont stretch it very far. Like poster above it points out double standards. Just another way to shut you down. Fuck all Marxist who want to control the conversation... Jordan Peterson does a good job at spotting all the tactics.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:21:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well 2 wrongs don't make it right! But 3 rights make a left. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:23:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: I have pointed out a couple of times in friendly debate how my friends put up with burning/looting/rioting, all damn summer long but now they are outraged. Their response? that my position is "whataboutism." Now, mind you, they don't really think that through but it makes them think they have a trump card. What are some ways you are dealing with that artifice? Tell them your position is one of principles. Political violence is wrong period. As evidenced by their hypocrisy, their position isn't. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:24:08 PM EDT
[#38]
No - I'm exposing your vile hypocrisy
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:30:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Ive had alot of this lately with people in debates.
Don't let them get away with it. Basically its their way to control the narrative. They get to do whatever they want and expect you to just deal with it while telling you why you're wrong and don't get that same privilege. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:34:03 PM EDT
[#40]
the only person on this entire earth you can change is yourself...so don't waste your time on shit you can't change
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:41:20 PM EDT
[#41]
If you say trespassing and breaking shit is wrong when it's BLM, but OK when it's Trump supporters...
and they say it's OK when it's BLM, but wrong when it's Trump supporters... then you're both hypocrites. On the other hand if your position is consistent, then you can rightly call your opponent out for hypocrisy. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:53:11 PM EDT
[#42]
"I'm not asking you to excuse the right-wingers behavior, because the left-wingers did it, too. I'm asking you to explain why your willing to excuse the same behavior for one group but not the other."
We already know the answer, "because I agree with them." It's just like the very fine people hoax, the mostly peaceful protests, and the most secure election ever. People have their narrative, and anything that contradicts it is fake news. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:39:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Im done. Agreed. Stop talking to them. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:45:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Inform them you don't play the whataboutism game.
You're too busy playing the whatisism game. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:46:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Find a better class of friends because yours are retarded fucking communists.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:46:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Stop trying to convince them of anything. Just attack them personally.
If they could reason, they would not think what they think. Pointing out double standards only works if you have a moderate audience to convince. Marxists are just dumb or brainwashed. I generally stick with "you are a cunt" and leave it at that. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:47:01 PM EDT
[#47]
a good strong chop across the neck, around the cricoid, is an acceptable rebuttal.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:49:58 PM EDT
[#48]
If you are trying to equate the riots as being imbalanced response to behaviors normalized by the left for the last four years it isn’t “whataboutism”, it’s illuminating their hypocrisy over similar incidents....you need to shove it back in their faces that their imbalanced opinion of this made this a standard reaction left or right, now they can wallow in it.
I managed to shut a few up already by pointing this out and saying when that pendulum swings and their speech and protest is no longer the favored, I’m gonna gin this conversation back up. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:50:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Reject their premise that there was burning, looting, and rioting in Washington. They were mostly peaceful protestors.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:51:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you say trespassing and breaking shit is wrong when it's BLM, but OK when it's Trump supporters... and they say it's OK when it's BLM, but wrong when it's Trump supporters... then you're both hypocrites. On the other hand if your position is consistent, then you can rightly call your opponent out for hypocrisy. Was it really trespass when they were let in? |
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