Cop not justified but "excused" in holding cell shooting because....

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cop not justified but "excused" in holding cell shooting because.... (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:17:08 AM EDT

He thought he was using a taser..

Not being judgmental here at all, but how can one not know he is using a firearm and not a taser?

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Police-Officer-Not-Justified-But-Excused-in-Shooting-Man-Inside-Holding-Cell-Bucks-County-District-Attorney-Rules-508512161.html

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During the tussle, one of the officers shot Riling in the stomach in what Bucks County District Attorney Matthew Weintrab called an "honest but mistaken belief" that he was going to use a Taser instead of a handgun.

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:18:14 AM EDT

[#1]

Whew! He gets to keep his dental.

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:37:50 AM EDT

[#2]

Protected.

Served.

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:45:47 AM EDT

[#3]

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Protected.

Served.

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Posted: 4/14/2019 7:45:48 AM EDT

[#4]

Muscle memory is exactly as it is. I'll give dude a pass.

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:45:58 AM EDT

[#5]

Thugs

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:47:10 AM EDT

[#6]

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Muscle memory is exactly as it is. I'll give dude a pass.

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So sometimes he carries his taser in his duty gun holster?

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:48:17 AM EDT

[#7]

You are supposed to carry the taser on the opposite side of the pistol. It
prevents those sort of things.

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:55:52 AM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
You are supposed to carry the taser on the opposite side of the pistol. It
prevents those sort of things.

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Attached File

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:58:30 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
He thought he was using a taser..

Not being judgmental here at all, but how can one not know he is using a firearm and not a taser?

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Because he was/is a dumbass to begin with?

Posted: 4/14/2019 7:59:20 AM EDT

[#10]

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So sometimes he carries his taser in his duty gun holster?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Muscle memory is exactly as it is. I'll give dude a pass.

So sometimes he carries his taser in his duty gun holster?

Got me. Dude practices to pull both, he reverted to training when one wasn't there.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:01:24 AM EDT

[#11]

People will revert to their training when faced with life threatening stress. He was trained poorly which is unacceptable in today's LE world.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:03:05 AM EDT

[#12]

Wouldn't be the first such error.
Its why many agencies want the taser carried opposite the handgun, to limit mis-identification under stress.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:08:59 AM EDT

[#13]

Top. Men.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:09:31 AM EDT

[#14]

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Protected.

Served.

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Posted: 4/14/2019 8:11:52 AM EDT

[#15]

If he were Joe Citizen instead of Johnny Law he's be rotting in a cell right now.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:14:35 AM EDT

[#16]

Usually cops are not supposed to bring their sidearms into the jail in the first place.

Super dumb mistake though; it should at least cost that cop his career.

First cop needs to be put through the wringer too... looks like he started the whole thing by shoving the prisoner.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:15:10 AM EDT

[#17]

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If he were Joe Citizen instead of Johnny Law he's be rotting in a cell right now. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_thinking.gif

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Cops are just better people and a higher class of human than you and me.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:15:35 AM EDT

[#18]

Well, I am glad that is settled.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:23:55 AM EDT

[#19]

Once he’s shot, they should have still cuffed him. Whole thing seemed sloppy.

Someone got a laparotomy.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:25:50 AM EDT

[#20]

Cool.

Everyone should start carrying tasers around as an insurance policy when CCWing.

Surely your average Joe would get the same treatment after they “accidentally” plug someone, right?

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:25:54 AM EDT

[#21]

The reasonable officer standard ladies and gentlemen.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:25:56 AM EDT

[#22]

Move along citizen. Nothing to see here.

MOVE ALONG, I SAID!

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:27:16 AM EDT

[#23]

Can I get my case dismissed because I shot the liquor store clerk, but I thought I was handing them my ID?

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:36:44 AM EDT

[#24]

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People will revert to their training when faced with life threatening stress. He was trained poorly which is unacceptable in today's LE world.

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Wrong. this case alone proves that it is completely acceptable.
So does the cops shooting through the door.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:39:35 AM EDT

[#25]

My A/O no firearms in the prisoner holding cells, but it can be different rules in different a/o.

As to grabbing the firearms instead of the taser I can see it happening under a high stress situation.

The guy intended to grab a taser that's why he yelled taser, taser , taser first.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:39:49 AM EDT

[#26]

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People will revert to their training when faced with life threatening stress. He was trained poorly which is unacceptable in today's LE world.

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@pdm
Do you know with any degree of certainty he trained to do a dominant side draw of the tazer? I don't.

Under stress, some people, with "adequate" training do the weirdest shit.

I'm not saying anything about his level of his training. I don't live or work there, nor do I have access to his specific training records, or the curriculum of his certifying agency.

I THINK, the dude simply fucked up.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:47:14 AM EDT

[#27]

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Can I get my case dismissed because I shot the liquor store clerk, but I thought I was handing them my ID?

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Yep. Absolutely. Totally the same thing.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:55:48 AM EDT

[#28]

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Yep. Absolutely. Totally the same thing.

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Quoted:
Can I get my case dismissed because I shot the liquor store clerk, but I thought I was handing them my ID?

Yep. Absolutely. Totally the same thing.

No, it's not the same thing. There are two standards in this country.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:56:34 AM EDT

[#29]

Did they say what the shootee was trying to hide that fell out of his pocket? Just a tidbit I want to know about.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:59:30 AM EDT

[#30]

Lol. They must have lowered hiring standards again.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:03:34 AM EDT

[#31]

This is why you don't bring guns into the jail.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:06:55 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
You are supposed to carry the taser on the opposite side of the pistol. It
prevents those sort of things.

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Why bother when he isn't responsible for his own actions?

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:09:14 AM EDT

[#33]

I guess the lesson here is don't fight with the police?

I can't get outraged when a shitbird wins his prize for playing a stupid game.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:15:21 AM EDT

[#34]

Remember the guy in az shot in the hotel hallway? They never would get a conviction

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:17:38 AM EDT

[#35]

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Quoted:

So sometimes he carries his taser in his duty gun holster?

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He was an idiot and carried his taser strong side, despite policy stating it would be carried weak side. Should be fired.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:17:58 AM EDT

[#36]

The “pistol” form factor of the LE models of TASER for is fucking stupid. It leads to dumb shit like this.

The thumb-activated “flashlight’ design of the old C2 makes so much more sense.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:19:26 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

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He was an idiot and carried his taser strong side, despite policy stating it would be carried weak side. Should be fired.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

So sometimes he carries his taser in his duty gun holster?

He was an idiot and carried his taser strong side, despite policy stating it would be carried weak side. Should be fired.

Why? His actions were gtg.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:22:12 AM EDT

[#38]

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Remember the guy in az shot in the hotel hallway? They never would get a conviction

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I remember very well.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:25:15 AM EDT

[#39]

Huh. It's amazing what questions you can answer by reading the article.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:27:47 AM EDT

[#40]

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Why? His actions were gtg.

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No, he violated department policy and what is a pretty standard best practice of carrying your taser on the officers weak side. This is done to help avoid confusion in deploying the taser instead of the hand gun.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:28:09 AM EDT

[#41]

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Huh. It's amazing what questions you can answer by reading the article.

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Huh. It's amazing what questions you can answer by reading the article.

Heh.

@pdm
Do you know with any degree of certainty he trained to do a dominant side draw of the tazer? I don't.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:38:44 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
No, he violated department policy and what is a pretty standard best practice of carrying your taser on the officers weak side. This is done to help avoid confusion in deploying the taser instead of the hand gun.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Why? His actions were gtg.

No, he violated department policy and what is a pretty standard best practice of carrying your taser on the officers weak side. This is done to help avoid confusion in deploying the taser instead of the hand gun.

He violated policy, but not the law by “accidentally” shooting someone.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:46:52 AM EDT

[#43]

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He violated policy, but not the law by “accidentally” shooting someone.

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I can't change what they found on the criminal side at the state level. 1983 case, we'll have to see if it is looked at by the feds. But his own decision to carry a taser in a manner contrary to policy and recognized best practice puts him well within the realm of being fireable imho. The fact that no one else challenged him on carrying it that way only adds to the potential culpability and liability issues the agancy will face when this goes to civil court.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:48:29 AM EDT

[#44]

Wanna make money, come up with a way that a taser can EASILY be distinguished from a firearm just by grabbing it.
This must be something that even under extreme stress, it is un-mistakable (without gross negligence).
As it is now, I can see how this happened. The taser needs to be designed so that it in no way is gripped like a gun.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:50:15 AM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
Wanna make money, come up with a way that a taser can EASILY be distinguished from a firearm just by grabbing it.
This must be something that even under extreme stress, it is un-mistakable (without gross negligence).
As it is now, I can see how this happened. The taser needs to be designed so that it in no way is gripped like a gun.

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Like a shock knife, only the shock is delivered to the grip of the taser?

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:50:34 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
Wanna make money, come up with a way that a taser can EASILY be distinguished from a firearm just by grabbing it.
This must be something that even under extreme stress, it is un-mistakable (without gross negligence).
As it is now, I can see how this happened. The taser needs to be designed so that it in no way is gripped like a gun.

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TASER already did that... but didn’t even try to sell it to cops.

Thumb activation. 87 times less retarded.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:51:36 AM EDT

[#47]

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TASER already did that... but didn't even try to sell it to cops.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41A%2BOU7ktQL._SX425_.jpg

Thumb activation. 87 times less retarded.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Wanna make money, come up with a way that a taser can EASILY be distinguished from a firearm just by grabbing it.
This must be something that even under extreme stress, it is un-mistakable (without gross negligence).
As it is now, I can see how this happened. The taser needs to be designed so that it in no way is gripped like a gun.

TASER already did that... but didn't even try to sell it to cops.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41A%2BOU7ktQL._SX425_.jpg

Thumb activation. 87 times less retarded.

There may be at least ONE agency who might be interested. And after the lawsuit, a whole lot more.

Posted: 4/14/2019 9:51:45 AM EDT

[#48]

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Quoted:
@pdm
Do you know with any degree of certainty he trained to do a dominant side draw of the tazer? I don't.

Under stress, some people, with "adequate" training do the weirdest shit.

I'm not saying anything about his level of his training. I don't live or work there, nor do I have access to his specific training records, or the curriculum of his certifying agency.

I THINK, the dude simply fucked up.

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Do I know with certainty? No but my assumption is that it would be department policy that he train with a taser from the non-dominant side. That's just basic lawyer liability stuff. Anyone practicing with a taser, and developing muscle memory, from the strong side is just asking for trouble.