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I am saying the US has spent a disproportionate amount on the war in Europe compared to the Europeans who live there.

You don't think showing how much, and what type of aid each country has sent gives the data context? Do you want a graph displaying each country's good intentions instead of the actual dollar amounts?

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Ukraine's big counteroffensive has netted them less than 100 square miles. It's like Gary Coleman throwing little haymakers as Mike Tyson covers up so as not to get a bruise. The US can help Gary tie up Tyson as much as possible, but it's obvious to all that Tyson isn't dropping the big bombs yet, because he doesn't have to.

This is a war of milking. Young men die so that the corrupt get rich, and so that both sides drum up more support from their respective and perspective allies.

Does anyone deny that if Russia wanted Ukraine wiped off the map tomorrow, that it would be so?

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Wait, people actually believed the "Ukraine gonna win it!" propaganda?

Hahahahahabababababababahbahahahaha

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Were people actually brainwashed to believe Ukraine could win against Russia??? I can't wrap my head around the blindness that would have to exist to be that naive.

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When figures like $100B of more debt are drops in the bucket, we are in the collapse of the empire stage of our nation.

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Wait, people actually believed the "Ukraine gonna win it!" propaganda?

Hahahahahabababababababahbahahahaha

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Ukraine is winning right now.

The ruble is collapsing, the offensive is gaining steam, and sketti is posting pro-Russian doom porn. I'm sorry, "just asking questions".

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No one seriously believes this to be true.

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No, do lend lease like we did in WW2. Out-manufacture Russia by producing 10x the amount of weapons they can.

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Well, they aren't losing either.  They've held back a much stronger military.  As incompetent as the Russian military is, they still have more resources, manpower, and hardware.  Of course, Ukraine couldn't do it without help.  The world is also better off without Russia controlling Ukraine.  Apart from the security challenges of NATO with Russia that much closer, the economic resources Russia would seize would be problematic.  All that oil, gas, minerals, metals, and excellent farmland would revitalize Russia's economy and power in the world.  Since we all know Putin is evil, it is best he doesn't get these things.  Instead, Russia's economy is hurting.  Their military will take decades to rebuild, even if they find the money to do it.  It will be even harder with all the young people who have fled the country to which Russia will need to keep its economy going.  

It seems that we're getting something for our money.  Whether it's too expensive is debatable.  

I don't predict anything major happening.  Ukraine probably wants to eke out a few more gains before the lines solidify even further.  A stalemate seems likely and what you gain now will likely be the status quo for a long time.  Just like the Korean war, it will probably end in a ceasefire with no treaty.  When Putin finally dies, maybe a treaty is possible.

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Ukraine is winning right now.

The ruble is collapsing, the offensive is gaining steam, and sketti is posting pro-Russian doom porn. I'm sorry, "just asking questions".

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Whether you believe it or not it's true.

Putin invaded Ukraine with the intent to subjugate and conquer the entire country in a few days and humiliate the west. Not just the eastern parts and no, Kyiv was not a feint. He wanted the entire country and to drive Zelenskyy out of the capital. Nobody expected Ukraine to offer more than a few days or weeks of resistance and Russian propagandists publicly declared Ukraine would be annihilated. In Putin's Essay "On the historical unity of Ukraine and Russia" he claimed Ukraine belonged to Russia. That's Putin himself talking, not me. Russia also publicly declared on February 26th, 2022 that they had defeated Ukraine and "Ukraine had returned to Russia". It was soon withdrawn when Russia began to flee Kyiv after losing the battle. Nato is stronger and now has 2 more nations, including one former Russian imperial colony, and Ukraine is stronger.

Ukraine is the underdog and not on the level of Russia. They're a much smaller nation with a much weaker military. For people to say "Oh, they got billions yet they can't push Russia out, they're losing" is ignorant because it's the lightweight boxer going against the heavyweight boxer and winning. The puppet government Russia intended to setup with it's JBT FSB goons isn't happening.

Odesa? Still Ukrainian.

Kherson? Liberated.

Kharkiv? Still Ukrainian.

Kyiv? Still Ukrainian.

Bucha? Even more Ukrainian after the horrors VDV soldiers did to the people there.

Izium? Free.

Kupyansk? Free.

Balakliya? Free.

Urozhaine? Recently free.

Robytne? Freedom, 50% loaded.

The victory pathways for Ukraine are much larger whereas the pathways to victory for Russia are much narrower. Russia is seen as the more powerful country yet when faced with unified Ukrainian resistance fled the capital.

Ukrainian victory is retaining most of their country and surviving as a nation. A Russian victory is taking Kyiv and accomplishing the goals they set out to on 2-24-22. Russia was closest to those goals in the weeks around 2-24.

If Ukraine succeeds in breaking the land bridge from Crimea to the mainland-and I believe they will-Russia will have traded 250k men, another countless hundreds of thousands wounded, trillions in lost assets and military hardware, and political and economic isolation for a few clumps of land.

That is a victory for Ukraine and a defeat for Russia.

Putin has a personal desire to own Kyiv because of the history of the Rus and Kyivan rus and a need to re-write it. He also can't claim to be a Tsar without owning Ukraine.

As the saying goes:

Russia with Ukraine is an empire
Russia without Ukraine is just a country

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Probably not any day now. Another year probably.

Russia has already been defeated, just like the Japanese were at the battle of Midway in 1944.

They just don't know it yet and refuse to acknowledge it.

It took a lot of hard slogging through the pacific in island hopping campaigns and 2 nuclear bombs before Japan surrendered.

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Collapsing currency? It will be on a monday.

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I agree.  If putin wanted to take ukraine, he could.  you dont take a country with what 200k troops?  Its been said before, I dont think his goal was take all of ukraine.  

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Ukraine isn't going to win.  And Russia isn't going to just give up.  This will drag out for years.  And yes, as far as the US is concerned, that's the point.  The last time the US dragged out a Russian war for close to a decade, it collapsed the Soviet Union, and they didn't invade anyone else again for a long time.  Since Putin is rebuilding the Soviet Union, that's been the mission statement for continued US assistance for quite a while now.  

And it'll probably work again too.

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oh ya....any deviation from the CIA/Psyops approved party line meant you were "kremlin shill..." Putin puppet..." etc etc....

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When figures like $100B of more debt are drops in the bucket, we are in the collapse of the empire stage of our nation.

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That was signed in 2014. The Budapest Memorandum was signed in 1994. Russian agreed to drop all territorial claims and pledge to respect Ukraine's sovereignty. Historically, no one should be surprised Russia broke the agreement.  Russia is the one who is committing genocide, and trying to wipe their culture and freedom off the map. What you are saying is meaningless. France and Germany are famous for slow-leaking everyone, including the EU and NATO.

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You can't be serious.  Most people believe it to be true.

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It's been like that in pretty much every online comment section with text. Always amusing seeing a regular guy post an opinion, then get called state backed propaganda by the poster who actually looks the most like state backed propaganda because they are repeatedly using a broken script.

getting called a bot/shill by some of the pro-ukraine posters out there, is like if the home warranty robocalls got reversed and started accusing me of trying to sell a home warranty

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UKR is never getting that land back, ever. Not unless some left wing reformist get into power in Russia.

I’ll hasten to bet Z is gone in a few years and some “lets deal with the Russians” type guy is in power.

UKR is done when the US tit dries up and it’s going to happen sooner or later.

RUS and China will control UKR in a decade, either directly or indirectly.

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Never was winnable, hence Russia will nuke the territory in to a glass parking lot, before it allows a Nato base on its boarder.
Hell, USA/Nato pulling all troops out of the regain before the conflict, should tell you that is as a no winner to begin with.  

Simply, its a distraction to keep Russia busy, while the Poland nato bases is finished.

https://www.nato.int/nato-on-the-map/#layer-1&lat=51.72673918960763&lon=4.84911701440904&zoom=0

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They don't have to "win" they just need to make it VERY painful for the Russians.

  If the Russians declare victory, we will lay an insurgency on them that will make Afghanistan look like a trip to Disney.

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Yup, half the guys in the Ukraine thread are reading from the same script and trying to get anyone that disagrees with em banned.

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If there's one thing we learned in the war it's that Putin doesn't give a shit about losses.