Catholics and Freemasonry (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/31/2026 2:37:11 PM EDT
| So why don’t Catholics like Freemasons? Is it because of that Knight’s Templar thing way back? |
Lately overheard in Mayfair
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Originally Posted By Des2B: Freemasonry is basically its own religion that rejects the Catholic faith. The two are incompatible and one could not be both a Catholic and Freemason, you would have to be one or the other. Freemasonry is not a religion. It teaches no path to salvation. We actively encourage men to seek that out through their own faith system. We don't reject any faiths. All are welcome to join. Freemasonry has no issue with Catholics joining (I know several Catholic Freemasons). It's the Catholic Church that prohibits it. |
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https://www.papalencyclicals.net/clem12/c12inemengl.htm In eminenti Papal Bull dealing with the condemnation of Freemasonry Pope Clement XII - 1738 CLEMENT, BISHOP, Servant of the Servants of God to all the faithful, Salutation, and Apostolic Benediction. Since the divine clemency has placed Us, Whose merits are not equal to the task, in the high watch-tower of the Apostolate with the duty of pastoral care confided to Us, We have turned Our attention, as far as it has been granted Us from on high, with unceasing care to those things through which the integrity of Orthodox Religion is kept from errors and vices by preventing their entry, and by which the dangers of disturbance in the most troubled times are repelled from the whole Catholic World. Now it has come to Our ears, and common gossip has made clear, that certain Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles called in the popular tongue Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons or by other names according to the various languages, are spreading far and wide and daily growing in strength; and men of any Religion or sect, satisfied with the appearance of natural probity, are joined together, according to their laws and the statutes laid down for them, by a strict and unbreakable bond which obliges them, both by an oath upon the Holy Bible and by a host of grievous punishment, to an inviolable silence about all that they do in secret together. But it is in the nature of crime to betray itself and to show itself by its attendant clamor. Thus these aforesaid Societies or Conventicles have caused in the minds of the faithful the greatest suspicion, and all prudent and upright men have passed the same judgment on them as being depraved and perverted. For if they were not doing evil they would not have so great a hatred of the light. Indeed, this rumor has grown to such proportions that in several countries these societies have been forbidden by the civil authorities as being against the public security, and for some time past have appeared to be prudently eliminated. Therefore, bearing in mind the great harm which is often caused by such Societies or Conventicles not only to the peace of the temporal state but also to the well-being of souls, and realizing that they do not hold by either civil or canonical sanctions; and since We are taught by the divine word that it is the part of faithful servant and of the master of the Lord’s household to watch day and night lest such men as these break into the household like thieves, and like foxes seek to destroy the vineyard; in fact, to prevent the hearts of the simple being perverted, and the innocent secretly wounded by their arrows, and to block that broad road which could be opened to the uncorrected commission of sin and for the other just and reasonable motives known to Us; We therefore, having taken counsel of some of Our Venerable Brothers among the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, and also of Our own accord and with certain knowledge and mature deliberations, with the plenitude of the Apostolic power do hereby determine and have decreed that these same Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations, or Conventicles of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or whatever other name they may go by, are to be condemned and prohibited, and by Our present Constitution, valid for ever, We do condemn and prohibit them. Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state, grade, condition, order, dignity or pre-eminence, whether clerical or lay, secular or regular, even those who are entitled to specific and individual mention, that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume to enter, propagate or support these aforesaid societies of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or however else they are called, or to receive them in their houses or dwellings or to hide them, be enrolled among them, joined to them, be present with them, give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support either openly or in secret, directly or indirectly, on their own or through others; nor are they to urge others or tell them, incite or persuade them to be enrolled in such societies or to be counted among their number, or to be present or to assist them in any way; but they must stay completely clear of such Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles, under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required, and from which no one can obtain the benefit of absolution, other than at the hour of death, except through Ourselves or the Roman Pontiff of the time. Moreover, We desire and command that both Bishops and prelates, and other local ordinaries, as well as inquisitors for heresy, shall investigate and proceed against transgressors of whatever state, grade, condition, order dignity or pre-eminence they may be; and they are to pursue and punish them with condign penalties as being most suspect of heresy. To each and all of these We give and grant the free faculty of calling upon the aid of the secular arm, should the need arise, for investigating and proceeding against those same transgressors and for pursuing and punishing them with condign penalties. Given at Rome, at Saint Mary Mayor, in the year 1738 of Our Lord. |
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Short article from the Grand Lodge of CA's website. Is Freemasonry a Religion? |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/clem12/c12inemengl.htm In eminenti Papal Bull dealing with the condemnation of Freemasonry Pope Clement XII - 1738 CLEMENT, BISHOP, Servant of the Servants of God to all the faithful, Salutation, and Apostolic Benediction. Since the divine clemency has placed Us, Whose merits are not equal to the task, in the high watch-tower of the Apostolate with the duty of pastoral care confided to Us, We have turned Our attention, as far as it has been granted Us from on high, with unceasing care to those things through which the integrity of Orthodox Religion is kept from errors and vices by preventing their entry, and by which the dangers of disturbance in the most troubled times are repelled from the whole Catholic World. Now it has come to Our ears, and common gossip has made clear, that certain Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles called in the popular tongue Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons or by other names according to the various languages, are spreading far and wide and daily growing in strength; and men of any Religion or sect, satisfied with the appearance of natural probity, are joined together, according to their laws and the statutes laid down for them, by a strict and unbreakable bond which obliges them, both by an oath upon the Holy Bible and by a host of grievous punishment, to an inviolable silence about all that they do in secret together. But it is in the nature of crime to betray itself and to show itself by its attendant clamor. Thus these aforesaid Societies or Conventicles have caused in the minds of the faithful the greatest suspicion, and all prudent and upright men have passed the same judgment on them as being depraved and perverted. For if they were not doing evil they would not have so great a hatred of the light. Indeed, this rumor has grown to such proportions that in several countries these societies have been forbidden by the civil authorities as being against the public security, and for some time past have appeared to be prudently eliminated. Therefore, bearing in mind the great harm which is often caused by such Societies or Conventicles not only to the peace of the temporal state but also to the well-being of souls, and realizing that they do not hold by either civil or canonical sanctions; and since We are taught by the divine word that it is the part of faithful servant and of the master of the Lord’s household to watch day and night lest such men as these break into the household like thieves, and like foxes seek to destroy the vineyard; in fact, to prevent the hearts of the simple being perverted, and the innocent secretly wounded by their arrows, and to block that broad road which could be opened to the uncorrected commission of sin and for the other just and reasonable motives known to Us; We therefore, having taken counsel of some of Our Venerable Brothers among the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, and also of Our own accord and with certain knowledge and mature deliberations, with the plenitude of the Apostolic power do hereby determine and have decreed that these same Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations, or Conventicles of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or whatever other name they may go by, are to be condemned and prohibited, and by Our present Constitution, valid for ever, We do condemn and prohibit them. Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state, grade, condition, order, dignity or pre-eminence, whether clerical or lay, secular or regular, even those who are entitled to specific and individual mention, that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume to enter, propagate or support these aforesaid societies of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or however else they are called, or to receive them in their houses or dwellings or to hide them, be enrolled among them, joined to them, be present with them, give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support either openly or in secret, directly or indirectly, on their own or through others; nor are they to urge others or tell them, incite or persuade them to be enrolled in such societies or to be counted among their number, or to be present or to assist them in any way; but they must stay completely clear of such Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles, under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required, and from which no one can obtain the benefit of absolution, other than at the hour of death, except through Ourselves or the Roman Pontiff of the time. Moreover, We desire and command that both Bishops and prelates, and other local ordinaries, as well as inquisitors for heresy, shall investigate and proceed against transgressors of whatever state, grade, condition, order dignity or pre-eminence they may be; and they are to pursue and punish them with condign penalties as being most suspect of heresy. To each and all of these We give and grant the free faculty of calling upon the aid of the secular arm, should the need arise, for investigating and proceeding against those same transgressors and for pursuing and punishing them with condign penalties. Given at Rome, at Saint Mary Mayor, in the year 1738 of Our Lord. Also, Pope Leo 13th. Humanum Genus 1884 |
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There have been several I believe. I think this is the most recent statement: https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_ddf_doc_20231113_richiesta-cortes-massoneria_en.pdf |
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Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: So some guy in 1738 didn’t like Mason‘s and that’s why Catholics can’t join? Maybe it’s time to get over that It's not a personal grudge. The Catholic Church finds the two groups to be "irreconcilable". From Ratzinger in 1983: DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code. This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories. Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L'Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981). In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation. Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983. |
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I found this on another website. I disagree with the label that Freemasonry teaches a religion but I think the rest of it is part of the core issue from the Catholic side. Freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic faith. Freemasonry teaches a naturalistic religion that espouses indifferentism, the position that a person can be equally pleasing to God while remaining in any religion. We don't care what religion you are, just that when you promise to do something you believe that something/someone holds you to those promises. https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-does-the-church-say-about-freemasonry  Can Catholics Be Freemasons? | Catholic Answers |
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Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: Why irreconcilable? I will have to defer to our more learned Catholic members to chime in on it from their side. I think it's because we hold all religions to be "equal" for admission to our organization. We don't really care what religion you are. Just that you have a belief in a Supreme Being that will hold you accountable for your actions in this life. |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: I found this on another website. I disagree with the label that Freemasonry teaches a religion but I think the rest of it is part of the core issue from the Catholic side. We don't care what religion you are, just that when you promise to do something you believe that something/someone holds you to those promises. https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-does-the-church-say-about-freemasonry  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB5WLMapEJMOriginally Posted By medicmandan: I found this on another website. I disagree with the label that Freemasonry teaches a religion but I think the rest of it is part of the core issue from the Catholic side. Freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic faith. Freemasonry teaches a naturalistic religion that espouses indifferentism, the position that a person can be equally pleasing to God while remaining in any religion. We don't care what religion you are, just that when you promise to do something you believe that something/someone holds you to those promises. https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-does-the-church-say-about-freemasonry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB5WLMapEJMYep. That belief is a big issue with the doctrine of The Church. Not the only issue, but the biggest from my reading of it. I've seen descriptors like moral relativism, Arian-heresy like and so on. |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: I will have to defer to our more learned Catholic members to chime in on it from their side. I think it's because we hold all religions to be "equal" for admission to our organization. We don't really care what religion you are. Just that you have a belief in a Supreme Being that will hold you accountable for your actions in this life. Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: Why irreconcilable? I will have to defer to our more learned Catholic members to chime in on it from their side. I think it's because we hold all religions to be "equal" for admission to our organization. We don't really care what religion you are. Just that you have a belief in a Supreme Being that will hold you accountable for your actions in this life. Exactly. |
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Exactly. Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: Why irreconcilable? I will have to defer to our more learned Catholic members to chime in on it from their side. I think it's because we hold all religions to be "equal" for admission to our organization. We don't really care what religion you are. Just that you have a belief in a Supreme Being that will hold you accountable for your actions in this life. Exactly. So not exclusive enough for them? |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan:  I'm starting to question your intent behind this thread. Is it to understand the position of the Catholic Church on Freemasonry or to bash them for it? Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: So not exclusive enough for them? I'm starting to question your intent behind this thread. Is it to understand the position of the Catholic Church on Freemasonry or to bash them for it? In his other threads, he bashes Christianity in general. |
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We are dealing with wholly irreconcilable world views. I think it makes a lot of sense from a Protestant perspective, unifying Protestant men in an era when divisions among Protestant churches got more than a little silly. It offers rites and moral development, world it literally even has a "catechism." So, from the Catholic perspective it's a bit silly and even a bit LARPish. They have ritual orders like the Order of Malta and treat them like a resurrection of something lost, but they literally still exist... the real one. From a Catholic perspective, Protestantism is heresy and schism, and groups like Masons are dismissive of this and go so far as to suggest there is a path to moral virtue separate from the Church. But the Church is called to make disciples of all men, and cries of "we're not a religion" betray very Protestant concepts of Christianity itself. "Separation of Church and state" is almost a Masonic mantra, but a borderline heretical concept to Church whose authority once legitimized the thrones of Europe. It's really hard to see how this is much of a big deal in the United States, where Catholics have always been a minority and the Church has never had much influence on society. But look at how Masonry operated in places as close to Mexico and it is much easier to see it as a near Revolutionary ideology. The Cristero War in the 1920s was, at its core, a more between Freemasons and Catholic Clergy. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the ongoing liturgical and ecclesiastical spats within the Church epitomized by the recent SSPX drama, to learn many conservatives blame Masonic influence and even clandestine subterfuge. |
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/clem12/c12inemengl.htm In eminenti Papal Bull dealing with the condemnation of Freemasonry Pope Clement XII - 1738 CLEMENT, BISHOP, Servant of the Servants of God to all the faithful, Salutation, and Apostolic Benediction. Since the divine clemency has placed Us, Whose merits are not equal to the task, in the high watch-tower of the Apostolate with the duty of pastoral care confided to Us, We have turned Our attention, as far as it has been granted Us from on high, with unceasing care to those things through which the integrity of Orthodox Religion is kept from errors and vices by preventing their entry, and by which the dangers of disturbance in the most troubled times are repelled from the whole Catholic World. Now it has come to Our ears, and common gossip has made clear, that certain Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles called in the popular tongue Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons or by other names according to the various languages, are spreading far and wide and daily growing in strength; and men of any Religion or sect, satisfied with the appearance of natural probity, are joined together, according to their laws and the statutes laid down for them, by a strict and unbreakable bond which obliges them, both by an oath upon the Holy Bible and by a host of grievous punishment, to an inviolable silence about all that they do in secret together. But it is in the nature of crime to betray itself and to show itself by its attendant clamor. Thus these aforesaid Societies or Conventicles have caused in the minds of the faithful the greatest suspicion, and all prudent and upright men have passed the same judgment on them as being depraved and perverted. For if they were not doing evil they would not have so great a hatred of the light. Indeed, this rumor has grown to such proportions that in several countries these societies have been forbidden by the civil authorities as being against the public security, and for some time past have appeared to be prudently eliminated. Therefore, bearing in mind the great harm which is often caused by such Societies or Conventicles not only to the peace of the temporal state but also to the well-being of souls, and realizing that they do not hold by either civil or canonical sanctions; and since We are taught by the divine word that it is the part of faithful servant and of the master of the Lord’s household to watch day and night lest such men as these break into the household like thieves, and like foxes seek to destroy the vineyard; in fact, to prevent the hearts of the simple being perverted, and the innocent secretly wounded by their arrows, and to block that broad road which could be opened to the uncorrected commission of sin and for the other just and reasonable motives known to Us; We therefore, having taken counsel of some of Our Venerable Brothers among the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, and also of Our own accord and with certain knowledge and mature deliberations, with the plenitude of the Apostolic power do hereby determine and have decreed that these same Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations, or Conventicles of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or whatever other name they may go by, are to be condemned and prohibited, and by Our present Constitution, valid for ever, We do condemn and prohibit them. Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state, grade, condition, order, dignity or pre-eminence, whether clerical or lay, secular or regular, even those who are entitled to specific and individual mention, that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume to enter, propagate or support these aforesaid societies of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or however else they are called, or to receive them in their houses or dwellings or to hide them, be enrolled among them, joined to them, be present with them, give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support either openly or in secret, directly or indirectly, on their own or through others; nor are they to urge others or tell them, incite or persuade them to be enrolled in such societies or to be counted among their number, or to be present or to assist them in any way; but they must stay completely clear of such Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles, under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required, and from which no one can obtain the benefit of absolution, other than at the hour of death, except through Ourselves or the Roman Pontiff of the time. Moreover, We desire and command that both Bishops and prelates, and other local ordinaries, as well as inquisitors for heresy, shall investigate and proceed against transgressors of whatever state, grade, condition, order dignity or pre-eminence they may be; and they are to pursue and punish them with condign penalties as being most suspect of heresy. To each and all of these We give and grant the free faculty of calling upon the aid of the secular arm, should the need arise, for investigating and proceeding against those same transgressors and for pursuing and punishing them with condign penalties. Given at Rome, at Saint Mary Mayor, in the year 1738 of Our Lord. The Apostles met in secret...hmm. (I'm Catholic and just stirring up shit  )
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Originally Posted By medicmandan: I'm starting to question your intent behind this thread. Is it to understand the position of the Catholic Church on Freemasonry or to bash them for it? Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: So not exclusive enough for them? I'm starting to question your intent behind this thread. Is it to understand the position of the Catholic Church on Freemasonry or to bash them for it? By their own admission since they can’t have “ecclesiastical oversight “ freemasonry is forbidden to Catholics Since they can’t control it they forbid it This is what I mean by exclusive |
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I say that Masonry is basically religion because it has a core set of beliefs, rituals, hierarchy and meeting places. I recognize that it's not precisely the same thing but we couldn't exactly look at it as a book club either. It's much closer to a religious institution than anything else. It's also important to note that I could not, as a Catholic, also be a Methodist. These are incompatible beliefs and the same with Freemasonry. To become a Mason or a Methodist, for that matter, as a Catholic would be to incur excommunication from the Catholic church in both cases. https://www.ncregister.com/cna/freemasonry-why-the-church-prohibits-membership |
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Originally Posted By Des2B: I say that Masonry is basically religion because it has a core set of beliefs, rituals, hierarchy and meeting places. I recognize that it's not precisely the same thing but we couldn't exactly look at it as a book club either. It's much closer to a religious institution than anything else. It's also important to note that I could not, as a Catholic, also be a Methodist. These are incompatible beliefs and the same with Freemasonry. To become a Mason or a Methodist, for that matter, as a Catholic would be to incur excommunication from the Catholic church in both cases. https://www.ncregister.com/cna/freemasonry-why-the-church-prohibits-membership You could say the same of the US Senate or Parliament.  I consider Freemasonry to be more of a fraternity that encourages morality and values. We prohibit any discussion of a sectarian nature when in lodge (the parking lot is free rein). In both states which I hold membership meetings are generally prohibited on Sundays, except for the purposes of funerals. I can't help but think that was intended to not conflict with men's duties to attend church. One of the first admonishments a new member hears during his initiation is that Masonry should never conflict with his responsibilities to his family, to his country, to himself, or to God. |
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Wouldn't you rather be joined with Christ? The light from freemasonry is false or counterfeit (not the real thing brother). Read: God is Light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Jesus is the Light. He is the Way. Jesus is the only Savior. Weak men that defend freemasonry practices, want it (fellowship with the world) more than Christ. These men are deceiving and being deceived. Should God grant them repentance, they would fall on their faces and declare that Jesus is Lord to all. Jesus spoke to the people once more and said, “I am the light of the world. If you follow me, you won’t have to walk in darkness, because you will have the light that leads to life.” ~ Jesus 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 But I will continue doing what I have always done. This will undercut those who are looking for an opportunity to boast that their work is just like ours. These people are false apostles. They are deceitful workers who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ. But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder that his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. In the end they will get the punishment their wicked deeds deserve. ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle 1 Corinthians 16:13-14 Be on guard. Stand firm in the faith. Be courageous. Be strong. And do everything with love. A believer and follower of Christ should have discernment and turn away from the counterfeit (false light) works of the enemy. Have a nice day, Jesus loves you.  Maranatha |
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Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: No Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: As a Freemason, do you profess the equality of all religions? No As a Freemason, do you profess that a Freemason man can follow any god, just as long as he does it? |
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Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: Belief in a supreme being is a requirement for entry We don’t talk about religion or ask about religion As mentioned above, we are not a religious organization You're dancing around the question. Do you profess it? Do you swear an oath to it? |
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Originally Posted By Martlet: He's not dancing around anything. You just don't like his answer. Belief in a higher power is a requirement for membership. It ends there. Originally Posted By Martlet: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: You're dancing around the question. Do you profess it? Do you swear an oath to it? He's not dancing around anything. You just don't like his answer. Belief in a higher power is a requirement for membership. It ends there. Do you profess it, though? ETA: Another question, do you guys pray before every meeting? Who is it to if you do? |
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Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: Belief in a supreme being is a requirement for entry We don’t talk about religion or ask about religion As mentioned above, we are not a religious organization Since you claim you are a 'Christian' and a Freemason? Aren't you preaching/proclaiming freemasonry in a 'religious' forum? Are you defending freemasonry as a legitimate way (fellowship) for men? Isn't that contrary to the Truth and that is deceitful isn't it? I believe Jesus, listen to Him. Open up that Bible in your lodge and start reading it for yourself. Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. ~ Jesus John 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. ~ Jesus 1 John 5:11–12 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Seems to me, in the Light of Scripture that you're in error. This is why I say, 'weak men defend freemasonry practices'. It takes courage to deny self, take up your cross and follow Jesus. Jesus is Lord. Get wisdom; what you're getting from freemasonry is a lie. A believer needs to understand that, no lie is of the truth. 1 John 2:21-22 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Do you profess it, though? ETA: Another question, do you guys pray before every meeting? Who is it to if you do? Profess what? We profess a belief in a Supreme Being and address prayer to the Great Architect of the Universe in my lodge. |
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Originally Posted By Martlet: Profess what? We profess a belief in a Supreme Being and address prayer to the Great Architect of the Universe in my lodge. Originally Posted By Martlet: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Do you profess it, though? ETA: Another question, do you guys pray before every meeting? Who is it to if you do? Profess what? We profess a belief in a Supreme Being and address prayer to the Great Architect of the Universe in my lodge. Who is the Great Architect of the Universe for the Freemasons? |
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Originally Posted By Martlet: That depends on the individual Freemason. Originally Posted By Martlet: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Who is the Great Architect of the Universe for the Freemasons? That depends on the individual Freemason. So it could be anything? Satan even? |
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Originally Posted By abnk: And there it is. Originally Posted By abnk: Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: Why irreconcilable? The Catholic Church is aware that there are other religions besides theirs, right? And there it is. I believe moral relativism was one of the stated reasons for the Catholic Church prohibiting Mason membership. |
Why is the sky blue?
What makes the green grass grow?
What makes the green grass grow?
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: So it could be anything? Satan even? No, it couldn't be Satan. Satan is not a Supreme Being, nor would a satanist (who are typically atheists who use Satan metaphorically) be consistent with other requirements of Freemasonry. Because a Satanist can't be a Freemason, the Supreme Architect of the Universe can not be Satan. There are other reasons, but those are primary. |
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Originally Posted By Martlet: No, it couldn't be Satan. Satan is not a Supreme Being, nor would a satanist (who are typically atheists who use Satan metaphorically) be consistent with other requirements of Freemasonry. Because a Satanist can't be a Freemason, the Supreme Architect of the Universe can not be Satan. There are other reasons, but those are primary. Originally Posted By Martlet: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: So it could be anything? Satan even? No, it couldn't be Satan. Satan is not a Supreme Being, nor would a satanist (who are typically atheists who use Satan metaphorically) be consistent with other requirements of Freemasonry. Because a Satanist can't be a Freemason, the Supreme Architect of the Universe can not be Satan. There are other reasons, but those are primary. Is Vishnu a supreme being? ETA: What classifies a god as a supreme being and would Vishnu or another eastern god be considered one? |
Why is the sky blue?
What makes the green grass grow?
What makes the green grass grow?
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Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: I think I get the gist of it About 300 years ago, the Catholic Church and Freemasonry had some sort of spat and the church is holding a grudge OK then No, it's because the beliefs are incompatible. |
Why is the sky blue?
What makes the green grass grow?
What makes the green grass grow?