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Posted: 5/20/2024 8:36:33 AM EDT
I see brothers and sisters in Christ get into arguments that often devolve into shouts of "Blasphemer!" "Heretic!" or even more unsavory terms and vulgarity over Free Will vs. Predestination. Why is there such a stark contrast to these two doctrines? I mean, both sides will use scripture to validate their beliefs.

Is there any denomination that believes that God has Sovereign Authority over everything in His creation and man has free will to choose faith in God? I don't think things are as cut and dry as Calvinism and Arminianism make them to be.

I personally believe we can have free will and God can be Sovereign over all because we exist in a linear reality and God is not restricted by space and time.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 8:46:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: monadh] [#1]
Baptist churches in my home town split over this topic.

I'm in for the thoughtful discussion and well mannered display of collegiality.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 8:50:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Interesting. I’ve heard this debated for years and other than on internet sites, it has never devolved into a shouting match with accusations. The debate can be supported on both sides by scripture and has been going on for hundreds of years. I don’t have a need to resolve it. Regardless of the outcome, we still have the great commission to respond to and obey.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 9:39:08 AM EDT
[#3]
We have an illusion of choice, it's that simple. But we should recognize it's an illusion.
Link Posted: 5/20/2024 9:59:54 AM EDT
[#4]
God is a sovereign being and has a sovereign will. Man being made in the image of God thus man also has a sovereign will. We saw it on display first, within the first purple of books in the Bible when Adam rejected God in favor of his relationship with Eve.

But God can be highly persuasive to get a man on board with what he needs them to do like he was with the apostle Paul. Another Example would be John the Baptist. He was filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb and knew God’s purpose for him.

Christ says he’ll draw all men unto himself. I don’t believe God predetermined who was going to hell and who would be saved. It would be unrighteous of God to send someone to hell for not believing something they never had access to.

Calvinism contradicts God’s own words on many levels.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


According to calvanism God is willing and has predetermined some to eternal judgment.

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Link Posted: 5/20/2024 1:02:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EastWest] [#5]
Originally Posted By Tony7189:
I see brothers and sisters in Christ get into arguments that often devolve into shouts of "Blasphemer!" "Heretic!" or even more unsavory terms and vulgarity over Free Will vs. Predestination. Why is there such a stark contrast to these two doctrines? I mean, both sides will use scripture to validate their beliefs.

Is there any denomination that believes that God has Sovereign Authority over everything in His creation and man has free will to choose faith in God? I don't think things are as cut and dry as Calvinism and Arminianism make them to be.

I personally believe we can have free will and God can be Sovereign over all because we exist in a linear reality and God is not restricted by space and time.
View Quote



Well OP, I try to avoid the debates between the Arminians (synergists) and the Calvinists (monergists). As you rightly indicate, there are Scriptures that support both positions.

What helped me was to learn that what I had originally thought was "free will" as understood by John Calvin (and St Augustine) was not what I originally thought it was.
Essentially what I had thought Calvin taught was that predestination (Romans 8:29-30) meant that we are all basically robots. No.

I think that what people think Calvin meant by "free will", is perhaps better understand as "free agency".  

That is, we are free to make our normal, day to day choices as we go about our daily business (free agency). And Calvin would accept that. Yet relative to our salvation, Calvin and St Augustine (and St Bernard of Clairvaux) would agree that it is only by the power of the Holy Spirit that we can come to believe in Christ as the Son of God (1 Corinthians 12:3).




Link Posted: 5/21/2024 9:56:50 PM EDT
[#6]
There's a possibility that neither are fully right or fully wrong.

These are both recent systematics.  You can reject both and it's perfectly ok.
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