Bitcoin WTF? - AR15.COM

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bitcoin WTF? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:05:42 AM EDT

Ok, I'm finally asking. Would someone please explain to me how a bitcoin is worth real money? Why the eff are people paying real money for fake currency? At least you know a twenty dollar bill is worth twenty dollars. What can you buy with a bitcoin? And please, explain it to me like I don't know anything about it.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:06:55 AM EDT

[#1]

Might I interest you in some tulip bulbs, OP?

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:08:43 AM EDT

[#2]

Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:08:48 AM EDT

[#3]

Pay your money, take your chances.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:10:23 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

View Quote

Explain plz.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:14:53 AM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

View Quote

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:15:05 AM EDT

[#6]

Well technically you don't "know" $20 is worth $20. You're told that's what it's worth and a bunch of people agree and determine what can be traded for that.

Kinda the same thing with bitcoin. Though a much smaller group and nothing to back it. Right now it's only worth something because other people think it's worth something.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:17:06 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless?

View Quote

Worthless as a currency? Yea at least for right now I agree. But people aren't using them tho buy things they're trying to make more to trade back to dollars. This is the real danger in all of this.

ETA: People don't actually want bitcoins. They want the dollar they think the bitcoins will get them.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:17:26 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

View Quote

Think of them like $50 Visa cash cards.

Are visa cards money? Can you use them to buy shit on Amazon? Pay down on a new car?

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:18:52 AM EDT

[#9]

https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/review/2018/01/10/a-short-introduction-to-the-world-of-cryptocurrencies.pdf

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:20:25 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Ok, I'm finally asking. Would someone please explain to me how a bitcoin is worth real money? Why the eff are people paying real money for fake currency? At least you know a twenty dollar bill is worth twenty dollars. What can you buy with a bitcoin? And please, explain it to me like I don't know anything about it.

View Quote

Last time I checked our money wasn't worth a thing...

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:20:37 AM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
Explain plz.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

Explain plz.

It's the way the blockchain works. As blocks are solved the reward for them is halved. This is from google.

Satoshi Nakamoto, Bitcoin’s creator, set the block reward schedule when he created Bitcoin. It is one of Bitcoin’s central rules and cannot be changed without agreement between the entire Bitcoin network.

The block reward started at 50 BTC in block #1 and halves every 210,000 blocks. This means every block up until block #210,000 rewards 50 BTC, while block 210,001 rewards 25. Since blocks are mined on average every 10 minutes, 144 blocks are mined per day on average. At 144 blocks per day, 210,000 blocks take on average four years to mine.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:21:08 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Well technically you don't "know" $20 is worth $20. You're told that's what it's worth and a bunch of people agree and determine what can be traded for that.

Kinda the same thing with bitcoin. Though a much smaller group and nothing to back it. Right now it's only worth something because other people think it's worth something.

View Quote

$20 is worth $20 dollars because I can go to a store and buy $20 worth of goods with it. And yes, I fully understand it is only so because everyone agrees it is so. Just like most people agree that a million dollar diamond is worth a million dollars when I personally don't believe it should be worth that because all it does is look shiny. I also don't believe gold should be worth as much as it is just because people say so. Seriously, when SHTF, people are not going to be trading me food and medicine for gold and I won't except gold for food or medicine.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:21:35 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

Plenty of online retailers right now that accept BTC, craiglist also now has a check box when searching so you can find people that will accept BTC as payment.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:22:31 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Ok, I'm finally asking. Would someone please explain to me how a bitcoin is worth real money? Why the eff are people paying real money for fake currency? At least you know a twenty dollar bill is worth twenty dollars. What can you buy with a bitcoin? And please, explain it to me like I don't know anything about it.

View Quote

What is real money?
What is fake currency?

What is the real worth of something, other than what is perceived?

Lump of shiny metal?
Small piece of manufactured paper?
Bit of data?

A.W.D.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:23:12 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

View Quote

The funniest part is people actually believe that. Anything to with computing can and will be hacked / manipulated - but certainly the 100% interweb security failure rate will be different this time. LOL

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:24:13 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

View Quote

I see more and more vendors accepting Bitcoin. The precious metals dealer I use (Provident), accepts Bitcoin to buy gold or silver.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:24:36 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

Plenty of online retailers right now that accept BTC, craiglist also now has a check box when searching so you can find people that will accept BTC as payment.

View Quote

It'd be stupid to use or accept as payment right now. Look how much it dropped today alone. Tomorrow it might make that back and then some. Too unstable.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:25:11 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
$20 is worth $20 dollars because I can go to a store and buy $20 worth of goods with it. And yes, I fully understand it is only so because everyone agrees it is so. Just like most people agree that a million dollar diamond is worth a million dollars when I personally don't believe it should be worth that because all it does is look shiny. I also don't believe gold should be worth as much as it is just because people say so. Seriously, when SHTF, people are not going to be trading me food and medicine for gold and I won't except gold for food or medicine.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Well technically you don't "know" $20 is worth $20. You're told that's what it's worth and a bunch of people agree and determine what can be traded for that.

Kinda the same thing with bitcoin. Though a much smaller group and nothing to back it. Right now it's only worth something because other people think it's worth something.

$20 is worth $20 dollars because I can go to a store and buy $20 worth of goods with it. And yes, I fully understand it is only so because everyone agrees it is so. Just like most people agree that a million dollar diamond is worth a million dollars when I personally don't believe it should be worth that because all it does is look shiny. I also don't believe gold should be worth as much as it is just because people say so. Seriously, when SHTF, people are not going to be trading me food and medicine for gold and I won't except gold for food or medicine.

SHTF is historically a short term thing, over the long term value is placed in rarity.

Gold has been prized for centuries as a way to hold and transfer wealth, in the digital age cryptocurrency does the same thing. Sure you can't barter with it when everyone is starving and people are rioting, but no one is going to be taking lumps of silver or gold then either, hell, they probably won't accept any kind of currency.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:26:32 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
SHTF is historically a short term thing, over the long term value is placed in rarity.

Gold has been prized for centuries as a way to hold and transfer wealth, in the digital age cryptocurrency does the same thing. Sure you can't barter with it when everyone is starving and people are rioting, but no one is going to be taking lumps of silver or gold then either, hell, they probably won't accept any kind of currency.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well technically you don't "know" $20 is worth $20. You're told that's what it's worth and a bunch of people agree and determine what can be traded for that.

Kinda the same thing with bitcoin. Though a much smaller group and nothing to back it. Right now it's only worth something because other people think it's worth something.

$20 is worth $20 dollars because I can go to a store and buy $20 worth of goods with it. And yes, I fully understand it is only so because everyone agrees it is so. Just like most people agree that a million dollar diamond is worth a million dollars when I personally don't believe it should be worth that because all it does is look shiny. I also don't believe gold should be worth as much as it is just because people say so. Seriously, when SHTF, people are not going to be trading me food and medicine for gold and I won't except gold for food or medicine.

SHTF is historically a short term thing, over the long term value is placed in rarity.

Gold has been prized for centuries as a way to hold and transfer wealth, in the digital age cryptocurrency does the same thing. Sure you can't barter with it when everyone is starving and people are rioting, but no one is going to be taking lumps of silver or gold then either, hell, they probably won't accept any kind of currency.

I am going to keep posting this quote from Greyhat.

Quoted:
Crypto is the idea men can add value to the world and profit thereby.

Gold is the idea that we don't profit unless the world burns.

Squinting at a strawman, this is an allegory about boomers and millennials.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:28:03 AM EDT

[#20]

$20 is worth $20 the same as 1 btc is worth 1 btc and 1 euro is worth 1 euro. Currently Americans and half the world think in USD, but that won't last forever. Bitcoins value is that it can transfer value fairly quickly across wide distances, it's also harder to fake than gold, silver or USD. But it's run into some large problems most of the new speculators don't understand. When bitcoin was started hardly anyone was using it. The designer didn't see the explosive growth it would undergo. So bitcoin can only handle 2400 transactions every ten minutes. Because of the limited number of transactions, all the users are stuck paying a higher and higher miner fee to be included in a transaction block. Currently the fee for a LOW miner preference is about .001btc. This makes it unusable for most transactions. This IMO means it's likely to fall soon. It's possible a fork in the code or lightning swaps will be implemented and that would allow it to handle more transactions. Until then, I'll be staying out of the market.

Some of the upsides:
The code limits the number of bitcoin to just under 21 million. That doesn't go far in a world of 7 billion people.
It's divisible to the hundred millionth - so theoretically you could pay for a candy bar with bitcoin even if a bitcoin was over $100k.
Its truly global. People around the world have beeb using and exchanging it.
It's extremely portable. You couple put 100 million on a thumb drive and keep it in your pocket.

All of that doesn't matter if it can't handle the number of transactions needed to be widely used.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:28:20 AM EDT

[#21]

If someone is willing to give you money for X, then X is worth that much money.

If you can find someone to buy your toenail clippings, then they're worth money.

The idea that "twenty dollars is worth twenty dollars" doesn't make any sense when you actually think about it. What is twenty dollars worth? Seven gallons of gasoline, or twenty-three loaves of Best Choice brand bread? What was twenty dollars worth twenty years ago? A lot more.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:30:34 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
It'd be stupid to use or accept as payment right now. Look how much it dropped today alone. Tomorrow it might make that back and then some. Too unstable.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Plenty of online retailers right now that accept BTC, craiglist also now has a check box when searching so you can find people that will accept BTC as payment.

It'd be stupid to use or accept as payment right now. Look how much it dropped today alone. Tomorrow it might make that back and then some. Too unstable.

I think larger retailers are using it as a way to stockpile it, people have it and want to spend it, and they want to get a stash of it going for long term. Using Newegg as an example, who knows how much they have managed to accumulate at this point by selling hardware and accepting BTC. If the value of it continues to trend upwards they will only be making money in the long run.

If it doesn't they are in for a bit of a loss, but probably not a huge hit because of how large they are.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:30:51 AM EDT

[#23]

Bitcoin is sorta like the American Dollar, it's only worth something because people believe that it's worth something, except with bitcoin, you most likely won't have a moron in the White House printing more of them to buy the votes of ghetto goblins and trailer trash.

Neither are backed up by anything "real".

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:33:14 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
The funniest part is people actually believe that. Anything to with computing can and will be hacked / manipulated - but certainly the 100% interweb security failure rate will be different this time. LOL

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

The funniest part is people actually believe that. Anything to with computing can and will be hacked / manipulated - but certainly the 100% interweb security failure rate will be different this time. LOL

It's been 9 years and the incentive to do so is worth billions of dollars so why hasn't it happened yet?

You don't think the best and brightest hackers on the planet haven't been trying?

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:33:55 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Ok, I'm finally asking. Would someone please explain to me how a bitcoin is worth real money? Why the eff are people paying real money for fake currency? At least you know a twenty dollar bill is worth twenty dollars. What can you buy with a bitcoin? And please, explain it to me like I don't know anything about it.

View Quote

1 btc is worth over 12k usd.

How much you were paying for 22lr when there was high demand and low supply.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:33:58 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

View Quote

Several months ago I sold 30BTC and payed my house off. Last week I bought 50 ounces of silver with BTC.
Next question.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:35:20 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

View Quote

That's not entirely accurate. BTC transactions are (or used to be) traceable.

When I worked for DOJ, a friend referred to BTCs as "deferred prosecution agreements." Perhaps the technology/cryptography has changed, but .gov adapts as well.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:35:26 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
It'd be stupid to use or accept as payment right now. Look how much it dropped today alone. Tomorrow it might make that back and then some. Too unstable.

View Quote

You don't need to hold it to accept it as payment. It can be converted to cash as soon as you accept it and avoid exchange rate risk.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:36:38 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

I think larger retailers are using it as a way to stockpile it, people have it and want to spend it, and they want to get a stash of it going for long term. Using Newegg as an example, who knows how much they have managed to accumulate at this point by selling hardware and accepting BTC. If the value of it continues to trend upwards they will only be making money in the long run.

If it doesn't they are in for a bit of a loss, but probably not a huge hit because of how large they are.

View Quote

I think most companies are just using BTC as a pass through. They accept the BTC and immediately cash out to USD.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:37:40 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
$20 is worth $20 the same as 1 btc is worth 1 btc and 1 euro is worth 1 euro. Currently Americans and half the world think in USD, but that won't last forever. Bitcoins value is that it can transfer value fairly quickly across wide distances, it's also harder to fake than gold, silver or USD. But it's run into some large problems most of the new speculators don't understand. When bitcoin was started hardly anyone was using it. The designer didn't see the explosive growth it would undergo. So bitcoin can only handle 2400 transactions every ten minutes. Because of the limited number of transactions, all the users are stuck paying a higher and higher miner fee to be included in a transaction block. Currently the fee for a LOW miner preference is about .001btc. This makes it unusable for most transactions. This IMO means it's likely to fall soon. It's possible a fork in the code or lightning swaps will be implemented and that would allow it to handle more transactions. Until then, I'll be staying out of the market.

Some of the upsides:
The code limits the number of bitcoin to just under 21 million. That doesn't go far in a world of 7 billion people.
It's divisible to the hundred millionth - so theoretically you could pay for a candy bar with bitcoin even if a bitcoin was over $100k.
Its truly global. People around the world have beeb using and exchanging it.
It's extremely portable. You couple put 100 million on a thumb drive and keep it in your pocket.

All of that doesn't matter if it can't handle the number of transactions needed to be widely used.

View Quote

This is the best explanation so far. Thank you for this. I'm very ignorant when it comes to anything having to do with money. My parents weren't good parents and didn't do a good job raising me which meant they didn't teach me any valuable life skills. I didn't get them in public school either. So I'm still paying for it now. I'm 31 and still trying to understand the way some things in the world work.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:38:53 AM EDT

[#31]

It sounds like you've made up your mind, OP. Why should I waste time with someone who's obviously got all of the answers?

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:39:13 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

What is real money?
What is fake currency?

What is the real worth of something, other than what is perceived?

Lump of shiny metal?
Small piece of manufactured paper?
Bit of data?

A.W.D.

View Quote

Parts of the undeveloped world completely skipped landline communication due to infrastructure costs. In the early 2000s, mobile communication was dominant and along with it, cell phone minute plans we we used to know in the West. Andreas Antonopoulos highlighted this during an interview. Banking systems in this area of the world mostly don't exist and any that do are likely corrupt and untrustworthy. But you know what was a trustworthy source of value that can be easily transferred between accounts? Cell phone minutes. According to Andreas, cell phone minutes were used (very successfully) as a form in currency in these areas. It was a trustworthy and secure way to transfer value. That's what money is.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:39:18 AM EDT

[#33]

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Quoted:

You don't need to hold it to accept it as payment. It can be converted to cash as soon as you accept it and avoid exchange rate risk.

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Oh.
That I didn't know.

Then it still might be a bad choice for the buyer, or maybe they'll get lucky. That $100 item might actually have cost them $110 or $90 the next day.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:41:27 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
The funniest part is people actually believe that. Anything to with computing can and will be hacked / manipulated - but certainly the 100% interweb security failure rate will be different this time. LOL

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

The funniest part is people actually believe that. Anything to with computing can and will be hacked / manipulated - but certainly the 100% interweb security failure rate will be different this time. LOL

Unless you've solved P=NP the blockchain isn't getting hacked. Your computer, the exchanges etc. are the weak point.

Posted: 1/16/2018 9:55:13 AM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is the best explanation so far. Thank you for this. I'm very ignorant when it comes to anything having to do with money. My parents weren't good parents and didn't do a good job raising me which meant they didn't teach me any valuable life skills. I didn't get them in public school either. So I'm still paying for it now. I'm 31 and still trying to understand the way some things in the world work.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
$20 is worth $20 the same as 1 btc is worth 1 btc and 1 euro is worth 1 euro. Currently Americans and half the world think in USD, but that won't last forever. Bitcoins value is that it can transfer value fairly quickly across wide distances, it's also harder to fake than gold, silver or USD. But it's run into some large problems most of the new speculators don't understand. When bitcoin was started hardly anyone was using it. The designer didn't see the explosive growth it would undergo. So bitcoin can only handle 2400 transactions every ten minutes. Because of the limited number of transactions, all the users are stuck paying a higher and higher miner fee to be included in a transaction block. Currently the fee for a LOW miner preference is about .001btc. This makes it unusable for most transactions. This IMO means it's likely to fall soon. It's possible a fork in the code or lightning swaps will be implemented and that would allow it to handle more transactions. Until then, I'll be staying out of the market.

Some of the upsides:
The code limits the number of bitcoin to just under 21 million. That doesn't go far in a world of 7 billion people.
It's divisible to the hundred millionth - so theoretically you could pay for a candy bar with bitcoin even if a bitcoin was over $100k.
Its truly global. People around the world have beeb using and exchanging it.
It's extremely portable. You couple put 100 million on a thumb drive and keep it in your pocket.

All of that doesn't matter if it can't handle the number of transactions needed to be widely used.

This is the best explanation so far. Thank you for this. I'm very ignorant when it comes to anything having to do with money. My parents weren't good parents and didn't do a good job raising me which meant they didn't teach me any valuable life skills. I didn't get them in public school either. So I'm still paying for it now. I'm 31 and still trying to understand the way some things in the world work.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:09:14 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
The funniest part is people actually believe that. Anything to with computing can and will be hacked / manipulated - but certainly the 100% interweb security failure rate will be different this time. LOL

View Quote

There an infinite number of cryptocurrencies possible - the argument that is being is made is that only a limited set of those currencies (hashes used to keep blockchains secure) will ever be widely accepted so they will have value due to "their" scarcity which is determined by the algorithm used. Some currencies (algorithms generate a very limited set of of possible hashes - e.g. bitcoin 21,000,000 others in the billions) so you can lock in the value of that hash by solving the algorithm (requiring computing resources) and registering it with the controlling authority.

Personally, I think it's a load of self-delusional crap and that if there is ever real value associated with these hashes they will trend to zero due to the first statement - there is an infinite number of cryptocurrencies possible - but I have never liked to play the bloody edge so I am likely wrong (or not).

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:10:55 AM EDT

[#37]

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https://i.imgur.com/PBgWEJi.gif?noredirect

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What is the WTF for? Is it unknown that parents can be shitty raising their children and not teach them how to function in the real world? Leaving the adult version of the child to learn on their own while being severely socially inept and irresponsible?

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:11:51 AM EDT

[#38]

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I see more and more vendors accepting Bitcoin. The precious metals dealer I use (Provident), accepts Bitcoin to buy gold or silver.

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Quoted:

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

I see more and more vendors accepting Bitcoin. The precious metals dealer I use (Provident), accepts Bitcoin to buy gold or silver.

The IRS has approved holding BTC in IRAs.

Currently, there is only one firm authorized to administer BTC IRAs so, as you might imagine, their fees are stupid high and only make it worthwhile for large accounts.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:15:09 AM EDT

[#39]

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Quoted:

What is the WTF for? Is it unknown that parents can be shitty raising their children and not teach them how to function in the real world? Leaving the adult version of the child to learn on their own while being severely socially inept and irresponsible?

View Quote

Meh they raised you and fed you and you made it to adulthood so there is that. At 30+ you should be long past blaming them for any of your shortcomings - e.g socially awkward - join toastmasters etc, issue with personal finances - there are tons of online essentially free classes.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:16:03 AM EDT

[#40]

Why do you say a twenty dollar bill is worth twenty dollars? It's a piece of paper/cloth.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:16:04 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

View Quote

the scarcity is artificial.

I find it hard to believe in an age of NSA and massive data centers, that the online bitcoin is untracable, yet they can track eerywhere your cell phone goes and all your text messages and emails.

I simply do not believe it is anonymous like people say. It does not pass the common sense test.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:17:00 AM EDT

[#42]

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Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

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Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

You can't use gold or silver to buy things at the grocery store or car dealership. I guess that means gold and silver have no value.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:19:30 AM EDT

[#43]

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Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

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Because it's untraceable and can be traded to anyone in the world at any time.

Beyond that, it is gaining/holding value because of how aggressively it is being traded and speculated on. There will only ever be 21 million of them, so scarcity is a factor as well.

Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

bitcoin can be sold for real US dollars, you dont so much "buy" bitcoin" as you do exchange value for value.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:21:28 AM EDT

[#44]

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Meh they raised you and fed you and you made it to adulthood so there is that. At 30+ you should be long past blaming them for any of your shortcomings - e.g socially awkward - join toastmasters etc, issue with personal finances - there are tons of online essentially free classes.

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Heh, if you consider being locked in a room almost 24/7 being fed only bread and water for the majority of your childhood being raised to adulthood a good thing, than good for you. It only stopped because I ran away when I was 16. I was tired of being hungry all the time and getting the shit beat out of me everyday.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:21:38 AM EDT

[#45]

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$20 is worth $20 dollars because I can go to a store and buy $20 worth of goods with it. And yes, I fully understand it is only so because everyone agrees it is so. Just like most people agree that a million dollar diamond is worth a million dollars when I personally don't believe it should be worth that because all it does is look shiny. I also don't believe gold should be worth as much as it is just because people say so. Seriously, when SHTF, people are not going to be trading me food and medicine for gold and I won't except gold for food or medicine.

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Well technically you don't "know" $20 is worth $20. You're told that's what it's worth and a bunch of people agree and determine what can be traded for that.

Kinda the same thing with bitcoin. Though a much smaller group and nothing to back it. Right now it's only worth something because other people think it's worth something.

$20 is worth $20 dollars because I can go to a store and buy $20 worth of goods with it. And yes, I fully understand it is only so because everyone agrees it is so. Just like most people agree that a million dollar diamond is worth a million dollars when I personally don't believe it should be worth that because all it does is look shiny. I also don't believe gold should be worth as much as it is just because people say so. Seriously, when SHTF, people are not going to be trading me food and medicine for gold and I won't except gold for food or medicine.

I will happily accept gold and silver when I sell my goods during SHTF. People will bring me their worthless jewelry and coin collections, and a few years later when SHTF is over, I will be wealthy. Gold and silver have been valued by humans for 5 thousand years. Most of that 5 thousand years, by our standards today, would be considered SHTF.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:23:39 AM EDT

[#46]

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Traded for what though? Can I go grocery shopping with bitcoins? Can I go to a car dealership and buy a new car. Can I use them to shop on amazon? If I can't use bitcoins to actually buy anything then aren't they worthless? Which means anyone who spends real on them is just wasting their money?

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Can you buy a TV with gold bullion? Can you pay for gas with diamonds? Can you pay your taxes with a Picasso?

Guess all those things have no value.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:24:32 AM EDT

[#47]

Oh no!!! The end is near

ill sell if it dips below $9k

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:25:13 AM EDT

[#48]

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You can't use gold or silver to buy things at the grocery store or car dealership. I guess that means gold and silver have no value.

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Well, I didn't know how bitcoin worked and now I do. Now I know that if I have a bitcoin, someone will give me real money for it and I can use that money to go buy things.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:26:36 AM EDT

[#49]

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Heh, if you consider being locked in a room almost 24/7 being fed only bread and water for the majority of your childhood being raised to adulthood a good thing, than good for you. It only stopped because I ran away when I was 16. I was tired of being hungry all the time and getting the shit beat out of me everyday.

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I am not going to get into who had it worse pity party with you, I am just saying adapt and overcome. Fwiw I thing the wtf gif was over the top. Peace and luck with your life.

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:27:41 AM EDT

[#50]

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It'd be stupid to use or accept as payment right now. Look how much it dropped today alone. Tomorrow it might make that back and then some. Too unstable.

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Plenty of online retailers right now that accept BTC, craiglist also now has a check box when searching so you can find people that will accept BTC as payment.

It'd be stupid to use or accept as payment right now. Look how much it dropped today alone. Tomorrow it might make that back and then some. Too unstable.

My local pizza shop takes btc...so says their website. I sure as hell haven't tried it.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bitcoin WTF? (Page 1 of 2)

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