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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:43:08 PM EDT
[#1]
3 mile spacing with reported RVR of 1200/600/1600....
At 3:1, landing aircraft 900 AGL when takeoff clearance given, inside 1000' stabilized approach gate...hmmm. Likely a CAT3 autoland so crew is not looking outside. I realize you gotta move airplanes but thats a little agressive. Duke |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:48:19 PM EDT
[#2]
But we're the air traffic controllers trans persons of color?
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:48:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure the comment from the fed ex crew at 9:20 was a polite way to say WTF!? The controller was too asleep to recognize the bad situation that was shaping up. The controller also never called for an expedited take off when he cleared the SW aircraft. That said.. He told the SW crew that there was a 767 on 3 mile. So...  Give or take a little, 1 minute of separation. "SWA Please expedite for noise avoidance" |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:50:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure the comment from the fed ex crew at 9:20 was a polite way to say WTF!? The controller was too asleep to recognize the bad situation that was shaping up. The controller also never called for an expedited take off when he cleared the SW aircraft. That said.. He told the SW crew that there was a 767 on 3 mile. So... You are probably correct but when verified to land that is time to be explicit and ask where the hell the Southwest plane is. Two sets of pilots and a controller and all three missed it? |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:53:19 PM EDT
[#5]
"SWA put your dicks away and push your throttles"
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:53:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holey shit! I know they are listing the call at 10:23 as from the tower. Was it from the tower or was it the fed ex crew calling the SW aircraft to abort and calling "fed ex on the go"?? That controller took long enough to realize shit isnt going to work there.  Yep, it sounded to me like the FedEx pilot told SW to abort and then advised they were on the go. Definitely not the same controllers voice. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:56:06 PM EDT
[#7]
The new america sucks.
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:56:59 PM EDT
[#8]
2 aircraft at full power right on top of each other must have been loud.
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:57:41 PM EDT
[#9]
As a mechanic with a run taxi authorization anytime a controller tells you expedite or aircraft on final. It’s a professional way of saying get your @$$ moving.
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:58:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2 aircraft at full power right on top of each other must have been loud. Had the FEDEX crew not done an outstanding job, it would have been louder.... |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:08:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had the FEDEX crew not done an outstanding job, it would have been louder.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 2 aircraft at full power right on top of each other must have been loud. Had the FEDEX crew not done an outstanding job, it would have been louder.... That's how I am seeing this. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:13:24 AM EDT
[#12]
It’s been a bad week in Austin. Holy cow
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:16:12 AM EDT
[#13]
FedEx crew telling SWA to abort is some top notch situational awareness. Holy shit.
If it was that low of a temperature and visibility, SWA might have been doing a pre departure run up. If that’s the case that would explain the delay of initiating the takeoff roll. They should’ve informed atc and not accepted the takeoff clearance knowing there’s a 767 3 miles out. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:16:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Seems like Southwest took too long and ATC didn't realize the delay could cause a conflict. In hindsight ATC should've told Southwest to expedite when they cleared them. ATC was probably trying to get Southwest out to save departure time due to the heavy landing.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:18:36 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:21:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s been a bad week in Austin. Holy cow @mattman9696 What else in Austin this week aside from the weather? |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:31:35 AM EDT
[#17]
I wonder what that sounded like from the bottom plane.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:31:39 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @mattman9696 What else in Austin this week aside from the weather? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s been a bad week in Austin. Holy cow @mattman9696 What else in Austin this week aside from the weather? @Marie The weather, the power outages (still people without power) and now this |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:35:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's comforting. My wife flies out of there Tuesday. That bad huh? |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:40:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Not the first time something like this has ever happened.
Might be different causes though. This happened at Toronto International  HOW was THIS Allowed to HAPPEN?! Edit: The video has an explanation of RIMCAS(the system that's supposed to prevent these things from happening) and how that system could allow these things to happen. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:42:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That bad huh? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's comforting. My wife flies out of there Tuesday. That bad huh? Millions of clearances and rarely an issue. Keep worrying. 
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:45:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TOGA button FTW! I bet he was tapping that thing like a piano key. I wonder what the SW crew saw out the window. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:45:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FedEx crew telling SWA to abort is some top notch situational awareness. Holy shit. If it was that low of a temperature and visibility, SWA might have been doing a pre departure run up. If that’s the case that would explain the delay of initiating the takeoff roll. They should’ve informed atc and not accepted the takeoff clearance knowing there’s a 767 3 miles out. At that temp, and visibility we would have to do a 30 second run up (in an NG) on the runway prior to brake release. It’s a Boeing requirement, so I doubt SWA’s procedures are any different. But we always tell the tower we need that time on the runway before we can start the roll. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:46:45 AM EDT
[#24]
That’s crazy, and job well done to the FedEx pilots for pulling that off.
A question for the experts, did the fedex’s rate of climb out put them in danger of stalling? I’d imagine they were close to the edge of not slamming into the other plane and not dropping out of the sky from a stall either. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:57:26 AM EDT
[#25]
Hory Sheet!
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Posted: 2/5/2023 12:58:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: we are witnessing the decay of civilization. Idiocracy is a documentary. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:02:21 AM EDT
[#27]
I bet those Fedex pilots wished they were working for UPS so they could wear their brown pants
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:03:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At that temp, and visibility we would have to do a 30 second run up (in an NG) on the runway prior to brake release. It’s a Boeing requirement, so I doubt SWA’s procedures are any different. But we always tell the tower we need that time on the runway before we can start the roll. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: FedEx crew telling SWA to abort is some top notch situational awareness. Holy shit. If it was that low of a temperature and visibility, SWA might have been doing a pre departure run up. If that’s the case that would explain the delay of initiating the takeoff roll. They should’ve informed atc and not accepted the takeoff clearance knowing there’s a 767 3 miles out. At that temp, and visibility we would have to do a 30 second run up (in an NG) on the runway prior to brake release. It’s a Boeing requirement, so I doubt SWA’s procedures are any different. But we always tell the tower we need that time on the runway before we can start the roll. Thanks, I’m not a 737 guy so I wasn’t absolutely sure. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:14:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s crazy, and job well done to the FedEx pilots for pulling that off. A question for the experts, did the fedex’s rate of climb out put them in danger of stalling? I’d imagine they were close to the edge of not slamming into the other plane and not dropping out of the sky from a stall either. Stalling?.. no. When the TOGA (takeoff/go around) paddle is pressed, throttles advance and A/C pitches to the GA cue on the flight director. Airspeed target is above min speed for current configuration. Aircraft accelerates and flaps retracted on speed to a clean configuration. LNAV/VNAV ( lateral/vertical nav) is engaged during the process and off you go. Assuming auto pilot on, a go around is a non event. Duke |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:14:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Had to listen to it again. It sounded like a normal go around with Swa calling the abort. Tower calling it was a sign that Swa took too long to get rollin. Old school Swa would’ve gotten airborne in no time.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:18:51 AM EDT
[#31]
nvmd
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:20:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Nothing unusual about this. Maybe Swa took a little longer to get off but it happens. Everything from the audio sounds like it worked the way it was supposed to. We get cleared for take off with traffic three miles on final and it’s assumed by all that you’ll be rolling asap. The abort was called as normal. Fedex did exactly like they were supposed to. I land with traffic just becoming airborne on short final once in a while. No big deal. We land with traffic just clearing the exit fifteen seconds before we touchdown. Everyone is ready to go around because it’s how you train and expect. Everybody, it sounds, did a great job." Probably good idea you deleted that That’s why I reposted it. Couldn’t tell a difference between their voices. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:24:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s why I reposted it. Couldn’t tell a difference between their voices. ThumbsUp.jpg |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:26:43 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: we are witnessing the decay of civilization.  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:40:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Sum Ting Wong
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:53:43 AM EDT
[#36]
Little confused about SWA. They were calling abort but flight data looked like they got off the ground. Did they abort the take off or just do a shallow climb out to avoid FE.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 1:56:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Little confused about SWA. They were calling abort but flight data looked like they got off the ground. Did they abort the take off or just do a shallow climb out to avoid FE. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 2:00:21 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 2/5/2023 2:07:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Little confused about SWA. They were calling abort but flight data looked like they got off the ground. Did they abort the take off or just do a shallow climb out to avoid FE. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 2:11:44 AM EDT
[#40]
SWA knew what was going on. They were told there was a 767 at 3 miles.. yes cutting it close but they had plenty of time to get rolling and out of their before the FedEx. If they couldn’t get going that fast they should have informed the tower.
People in here are seemingly wanting to blame ATC (the racist comments are kinda weird) but I think the root cause of this is SWA. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 2:19:45 AM EDT
[#41]
Just another day. Been seeing an increase of the ATC Brasher warning jokes lately. System is failing. Notams are a joke, hell that grounded planes nationwide a few weeks ago. Few years ago they printed half a reem of notes if we even went close to DC, try reading that in 20 minutes time. I really wish the public could see how we get our notams and how unreadable they really are. Notice to air missions...lol(you know if you know). There is a reason I nickname certain controllers "Angels of Death". Once had a controller put me nose to nose with a bell whirly bird, causing me to make evasive action only 50 ft off the ground. Only consequence was the controller was out 20$, gave me a gift card to BW3 and said he was sorry. Role reversed...out of a license for a period of time, big time fines, and possibly out of a career.
As for Austin, running them too tight. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 2:28:19 AM EDT
[#42]
There has to be video of this, right?
Wonder when that will get released |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 2:48:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: we are witnessing the decay of civilization. ATC is cramming as much into the airspace as they can. 170 or 180kts to the FAF seems to be the norm now. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 2:56:18 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s crazy, and job well done to the FedEx pilots for pulling that off. A question for the experts, did the fedex’s rate of climb out put them in danger of stalling? I’d imagine they were close to the edge of not slamming into the other plane and not dropping out of the sky from a stall either. On a go around you have plenty of energy to initiate a go around. Full power is not really needed on the plane I fly.a heavily laden 737? No idea! |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 3:03:02 AM EDT
[#45]
Would love to see video
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Posted: 2/5/2023 3:12:38 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Incident took place at 1240Z according to Flightradar24 video. So.... the Southwest aircraft was cleared for takeoff when the landing UPS aircraft was 3 miles away. The FedEx aircraft was traveling let's say 170 knots.... so it would travel 3 miles in just over a minute. Southwest is slow to take off, thus the FedEx plane is on top of them, literally, while they are finally rolling out. I am not a pilot nor am I an air traffic controller but... 3 miles seems They were... about 1 second away from disaster assuming a sink rate of 30 feet per second and 27' of vertical separation. I would think the SW aircraft would need to be inspected for damage, no? |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 3:15:50 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had the FEDEX crew not done an outstanding job, it would have been louder.... Oh yeah. I'm betting those pilots were shitting themselves for a few seconds. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 3:18:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stalling?.. no. When the TOGA (takeoff/go around) paddle is pressed, throttles advance and A/C pitches to the GA cue on the flight director. Airspeed target is above min speed for current configuration. Aircraft accelerates and flaps retracted on speed to a clean configuration. LNAV/VNAV ( lateral/vertical nav) is engaged during the process and off you go. Assuming auto pilot on, a go around is a non event. Duke Assuming the engines were at idle for landing, how long to spin up to full power? |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 3:20:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Turd world. This stuff is starting to happen every week it seems like.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 3:24:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: They were... about 1 second away from disaster assuming a sink rate of 30 feet per second and 27' of vertical separation. Quoted: Assuming the engines were at idle for landing, how long to spin up to full power? They would not have been at idle yet. Still around 50-60% N1. It'd spool up quick. Quoted: There has to be video of this, right? Wonder when that will get released I doubt there will be video of anything. Not much to see with that ceiling and visibility. |
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