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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:13:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
The president’s pardon of Maj. Matt Golsteyn may not ultimately reinstate his Special Forces tab and Silver Star, both of which were stripped from him in 2015 by a U.S. Army Special Operations Command administrative board. Several Green Berets who spoke with Army Times said that they doubt the tab will be restored, though Golsteyn’s case has the president’s ear, which is rare. |
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:18:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like I've said before, lines are being drawn, especially with the military now. 10 years prior the military was largely apolitical and didn't pick sides. Now they're picking sides. If that isn't a warning of whats down the road... |
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:18:35 PM EDT
[#3]
They have no authority in this matter to withhold the uniform bling. The Top of the Food Chain has spoken.
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:29:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did Trump order the tab/award restored? That's the only question that matters. 
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:30:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. A reminder that they serve at the pleasure of the President might sway things a little. FULL pardon means FULL pardon. |
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:30:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Out of all the negative trends in government, this bothers me the most. Provided POTUS issues a lawful order, the generals on down better snap to and execute forthwith. Offer your resignation if your conscience doesnt allow you to carry out the lawful order. Anything short of that is the start of insurrection.
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:32:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is accused of the extra judicial killing of a bomb maker that had killed two Marines. I find it troubling that this is the hill the higher ranking guys are choosing to die on. Typical un-elected bureaucrats who think they know better than the President. String them up. |
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:34:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Nelson guy is something else
ETA: what's with the hand signs in his av? |
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:38:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell them to restore the awards or start court martialing and discharging (without pension) until someone does as ordered. Trump needs to start going scorched earth on those who do not follow his lawful orders. This shit is getting out of control. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell them to restore the awards or start court martialing and discharging (without pension) until someone does as ordered. Trump needs to start going scorched earth on those who do not follow his lawful orders. This shit is getting out of control. Quoted:
Like I've said before, lines are being drawn, especially with the military now. 10 years prior the military was largely apolitical and didn't pick sides. Now they're picking sides. If that isn't a warning of whats down the road...
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:44:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Much damage was done to the military hierarchy during Obama's reign. TC |
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:51:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That sounds odd. It should be commander and chief. |
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Posted: 11/19/2019 10:52:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like I've said before, lines are being drawn, especially with the military now. 10 years prior the military was largely apolitical and didn't pick sides. Now they're picking sides. If that isn't a warning of whats down the road... Trump 2020. |
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Posted: 11/19/2019 11:22:32 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My understanding is a Taliban IED maker made the bomb that killed two marines working with him. He cut a deal with a local to give the dude up, but if he lived the local would face retaliation. He somehow arranged to be where he could tag the ied maker as he was waking somewhere. When this was found out about, he was stripped of a SS and SF tab. Guess what? Shit goes down where there are no cameras and ISR all the time. For example, Two savages from an IED maker’s home may go squirt and go running towards two black side Rangers in the dark. They shoot them. Nobody hangs them out to dry if it turns out the savages did not have their weapons on them. Or a house is breached and a body running down the stairs. It gets lit up. The guy that lit them up assumed they had a suicide belt. They didn’t. You don’t fry the guy for it. A lot of white mixed with black and gray. There have been a shit load of kill/capture missions green lit on less intel. Perhaps I don’t know enough of the correct details. Perhaps he did something way over the line and was appropriately revoked of his tab and SS. But even if that was the case, he was just issued a full and unconditional pardon. Whatever act he did, has just been wiped clean. In my opinion, Whatever was done to him because of that act must be undone. If the circumstances are truly he cut a deal with an indig to give up a Taliban IED maker in exchange for taking him out, And then hid out waiting for the bomb maker to strut by and whacked him, And the powers that be fried him for it, Those are powers that be that will not win a war anywhere. They are at war with the U.S.A |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:01:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell the U.S. Army Special Operations Command administrative board to do it or send them ALL to a remote base in Africa. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:04:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am pretty sure Mike Nelson is another liberal turd fucker playing stolen valor for $100 Alex. (A phony .mil vet) SF is group or team. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:11:18 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:15:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Leavenworth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tell the U.S. Army Special Operations Command administrative board to do it or send them ALL to |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:20:54 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell them to restore the awards or start court martialing and discharging (without pension) until someone does as ordered. Trump needs to start going scorched earth on those who do not follow his lawful orders. This shit is getting out of control. I know he knows the term "you're fired" Time to use it. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:24:52 AM EDT
[#19]
Maybe this should get through to Trump that the ONLY people he can count on are those that
voted for him. Not the Executive. Not Congress. Apparently not the military. Us. He needs to understand that. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:26:13 AM EDT
[#20]
We're gonna atleast need another four years of MAGA to clear out the 0bama out of the armed forces
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:27:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell them to restore the awards or start court martialing and discharging (without pension) until someone does as ordered. Trump needs to start going scorched earth on those who do not follow his lawful orders. This shit is getting out of control. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:28:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Find the brass that is resisting and relieve them of duty.
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:29:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryNo junior officer or enlisted should ever have to serve for a cocksucker like him. Even in the Arctic. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:34:13 AM EDT
[#24]
I don't get it. Don't we want our spec ops killing bad guys? Why the fuck are they being punished? I am glad Trump pardoned him. We just need to let the dogs loose and win the war and get it done.
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:46:00 AM EDT
[#25]
How does a military Officer disobey a lawful order from the President?
Am I missing something? |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:47:23 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does a military Officer disobey a lawful order from the President? Am I missing something? |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:48:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is accused of the extra judicial killing of a bomb maker that had killed two Marines. I find it troubling that this is the hill the higher ranking guys are choosing to die on. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:51:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does a military Officer disobey a lawful order from the President? Am I missing something? |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:52:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m sure his pardon wasn’t sufficiently detailed to make sure the convicted SM were made whole. I guess a supplemental presidential directive would be. I’d make damn sure it also included relief for cause for the cocksuckers that made it necessary. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:55:10 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Officer oath is to the Constitution. Nothing about obeying the president and for the exact reason you probably think. 
"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed .." |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 12:56:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong
"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed .." |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:01:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the enlisted oath. Care to post the officer oath? |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:05:39 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see they are different. I am pretty sure that does not absolve officers of having to follow the orders of the CINC. Don’t have time tonight but if you read up on the differences it’s very interesting. Officers are supposed to support the constitution above all else, including and especially orders from tyrants. It’s full of gray. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:07:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolves? Maybe yes maybe no. Give direction? Clearly. It was supposed to be a check on tyranny, especially from the executive. Of course the saying “swing at the king, best not miss” comes to mind. Or whatever that saying is. Don’t have time tonight but if you read up on the differences it’s very interesting. Officers are supposed to support the constitution above all else, including and especially orders from tyrants. It’s full of gray. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I see they are different. I am pretty sure that does not absolve officers of having to follow the orders of the CINC. Don’t have time tonight but if you read up on the differences it’s very interesting. Officers are supposed to support the constitution above all else, including and especially orders from tyrants. It’s full of gray. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:09:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Officers still have to follow lawful orders. Surprise surprise, being able to issue pardons is an enumerated power of the President. If an order comes down to kick doors and confiscate all guns from citizens then that is in my view unconstitutional, even if legal and passed by Congress. It’s literally the whole point of the oath. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:14:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, not if it violates the constitution. Period. Otherwise we are “just following orders”. If an order comes down to kick doors and confiscate all guns from citizens then that is in my view unconstitutional, even if legal and passed by Congress. It’s literally the whole point of the oath. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:16:16 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the Presidential power is accepted as constitutional, then the Officer must follow his orders. Presidents have fired Generals for not doing what they were told hundreds of times. I understand what you are saying. I am asking if you believe the President doesn't have the authority to restore these men and their decorations after a full pardon. I was trying to answer in general to the question, not to this case. I feel I’ve derailed the thread so I’ll stop. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:17:35 AM EDT
[#38]
President can do whatever. He doesn’t award SF Tabs. The Regiment upholds and enforces it’s own standards.
That dude lost his Tab way before the President was around. Probably because he narc-ed himself out about something he should have taken to the grave, and then when that wasn’t enough, went running his suck Fox News about it. Not the kind of behavior Special Forces looks highly upon. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:20:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Officer oath is to the Constitution. Nothing about obeying the president and for the exact reason you probably think. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:23:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the Presidential power is accepted as constitutional, then the Officer must follow his orders. Presidents have fired Generals for not doing what they were told hundreds of times. I understand what you are saying. I am asking if you believe the President doesn't have the authority to restore these men and their decorations after a full pardon. I do believe he does have that authority. Swamp will fight it and these poor dudes are caught in the middle. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:24:57 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Missed the question part. I do believe he does have that authority. Swamp will fight it and these poor dudes are caught in the middle. eta: It would have helped if I had put a question mark at the end of that, instead of a period. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:27:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's even worse than that, the congressman who was originally taking up for this guy was investigated and charged for campaign finance fraud BS. Trump needs to have a change of command for these protected shit bags. Get their asses out now, officers who want to be in administrative positions are a fucking dime a dozen. Generals seem like such prima donas. Your are not top dog, you are a link in the chain of command. Obey or get out. Spout off about Trumps illegal actions and they turn around and can’t follow a simple order from their commander. NEXT! |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:29:22 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of all the negative trends in government, this bothers me the most. Provided POTUS issues a lawful order, the generals on down better snap to and execute forthwith. Offer your resignation if your conscience doesnt allow you to carry out the lawful order. Anything short of that is the start of insurrection. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:30:21 AM EDT
[#44]
I thought they could keep him off an ODA, or even SF Bn, but not take the Long Tab away? That's a qualification insignia, you don't lose your jump badge if you are only a 5 jump chump, or go off jump status.
I've seen politics force good Soldiers out of units, but this is more Fundamental Transformation courtesy of the Kenyan scammer. Good combat leaders replaced by Comrades of Proven Worth. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:30:49 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
President can do whatever. He doesn't award SF Tabs. The Regiment upholds and enforces it's own standards. That dude lost his Tab way before the President was around. Probably because he narc-ed himself out about something he should have taken to the grave, and then when that wasn't enough, went running his suck Fox News about it. Not the kind of behavior Special Forces looks highly upon. USASOC should be able to set their own policy and rules on who can wear the SF Tab. We just get into the "President is right no matter what" because it's our guy as President. Dangerous precedent to set when the next President might be a liberal. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:31:15 AM EDT
[#46]
If Clinton can pardon terrorists so they can become lawyers, college professors and the like, give this man all of his stuff back.
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/22/nyregion/officials-criticize-clinton-s-pardon-of-an-ex-terrorist.html |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:34:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought they could keep him off an ODA, or even SF Bn, but not take the Long Tab away? That's a qualification insignia, you don't lose your jump badge if you are only a 5 jump chump, or go off jump status. I've seen politics force good Soldiers out of units, but this is more Fundamental Transformation courtesy of the Kenyan scammer. Good combat leaders replaced by Comrades of Proven Worth. Doesnt happen very often and the circumstances are pretty bad when it does happen. Not sure how NAVSOF works but I see Chief Gallagher losing his Trident. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:37:07 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Officer oath is to the Constitution. Nothing about obeying the president and for the exact reason you probably think. Pretty sure DUTIES OF THE OFFICE falls under obeying lawful orders from superiors in chain of command. Or is obeying commanders optional these days? |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:38:03 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolves? Maybe yes maybe no. Give direction? Clearly. It was supposed to be a check on tyranny, especially from the executive. Of course the saying “swing at the king, best not miss” comes to mind. Or whatever that saying is. Don’t have time tonight but if you read up on the differences it’s very interesting. Officers are supposed to support the constitution above all else, including and especially orders from Which is how Vindman will likely skate an Art 88 or undermining the Chain of Command. The left is already turning him into a hero above reproach and question in his brave patriotism and courage in standing up to a horrible dictator. |
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Posted: 11/20/2019 1:39:57 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is accused of the extra judicial killing of a bomb maker that had killed two Marines. I find it troubling that this is the hill the higher ranking guys are choosing to die on. |
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