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Yes. I can see being discerning if ones goal is to shoot bullseye at camp Perry. For most people on a defensive pistol, that DA pull, or extra pound of pressure or if you will, margin of safety, is going to make absolutely no difference in any practical sense. In something I might point at a human in the hope they surrender or flee before I might be forced to shoot, id prefer the safety margin. In actual use of a DA/SA over a couple decades. I found the difference in poi from DA to SA was about 1". Not enough difference to make a difference. Three people are alive ( or at least were at the time) because of that long take up. |
Trusting your life to the benevolence of an armed criminal is not a strategy, it is stupid!
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Originally Posted By colklink: Not at all. A handgun is a hand tool. Its ergonomics to include the grip and trigger pull all go into its ease of use. Yup. A bad/heavy trigger in a handgun will reveal every minute flaw in a shooter's ability. I've never had an issue with stock Glock triggers, or most any striker fired handgun, but DA/SA has a learning curve after I've put it down for awhile. |
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maybe... I am not a trigger snob and a good trigger is a good trigger. Gieselle, Larue, KAC all make good triggers, while a NM or S3G from gieselle may be nicer than a MBT, i can make an MBT work.. and i will automatically swap out a milspec for somebody better. I handguns... I have a similar view. do i need to have the lightest 70 series trigger in my 2011, no, a clean 3 or 4 pound break will work. for striker fired pistols, pretty much everything outside of glock has a good trigger these days, and i really dont have any interest in glocks in 2026. i dont need the best, i just dont want the worst trigger on the market. as for DA/SA... Its not my cup of tea, but as long as you understand what they are, they are fine as well. |
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I like a "nice" trigger. I used to think they made a real difference in how well I could shoot a gun. I also used to think the better a pistol felt in my hands the better I'd be able to shoot it. Some of both of those statements may be true. But, in the last few years I've discovered: 1 Installing an Apex Tactical trigger in an M&P may not help me shoot it better. The nicest Apex Tactical trigger I have is in an M&P 2.0 5" 9MM that lives in the safe because I have more accurate M&Ps that do not have an Apex Tactical trigger in them. 2. A good feeling grip isn't always a component of me shooting a handgun better. My CZ P07 and P09 grips don't feel nearly as good in my hand as the CZ75/P01 grips/frame but I shoot the plastic framed CZ's better than the metal framed CZs. I do hate those AR15 triggers that are so bad I come home from the range with the tip of my trigger finger stiff/sore from holding them back at the wall. Those get replaced for sure. 3. You get used to a trigger feel and you "want" that feel on other guns. I've had a couple M&P 2.0 PC pistols I've shot and thought, "you know, that trigger's not too bad. I can make do with it as is." Then I go to the range with an M&P with the Apex Tactical trigger kit installed and I immediately notice the difference between it and the PC trigger and want the Apex Tactical feel for the new pistol, too. 4. A nice crisp trigger break makes the force required to fire the gun feel like it's less than it really is. I've got some CZs that I'd swear the trigger pull was too light on only to measure it and find the trigger pull was a solid repeatable 3 lbs. My mind/trigger finger says "NO WAY." The trigger pull gauge tells the truth. |
How you live your life is important. Just be sure the memory of how you died doesn't overshadow the tales of how you lived your life.
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Yes and no. Expecting a crisp 3# pull in a striker fired gun is unreasonable and unnecessary. There's also no reason for it to be complete garbage. I don't mind stock Glock trigger pulls for example, but I hate the shoe. Gen 6 solved that issue for me. On the other hand I have a FN 509T and the trigger pull was just plain trash and unacceptable. There was no reason for it to be so poor.
Nothing beats even a mediocre 1911/2011 trigger though. |
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer
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Originally Posted By Dance: Are people too critical of pistol triggers and grip? You may have a point. I own over 160 handguns with triggers and grips of every type. Sure, some are better or worse than others, but it's not that big of a deal to me. I take 4 to 6 different guns to the range every weekend - unless I am having issues with one, then it may go back several weekends in a row until fixed. Sometimes the things I read here surprise me with people complaining about DAO guns or something like that. In all honesty, if you have a difficult time with guns like that, then you should shoot them more until that difficulty disappears. Instead of trying to make the gun better, make you better. I have a friend who has been shooting longer than me and has even competed (and won). I generally shoot revolvers better in double-action than he does using the same revolver, same ammo, in single action. And the weird part is, I shoot them better in double action than I do in single action. That's nothing but years of familiarity with those systems. |
If I edited the post above it's more than likely because I suck at typing. If I didn't, I was either in too big of a hurry or just missed it.
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Yes and no. Expecting a crisp 3# pull in a striker fired gun is unreasonable and unnecessary. There's also no reason for it to be complete garbage. I don't mind stock Glock trigger pulls for example, but I hate the shoe. Gen 6 solved that issue for me. On the other hand I have a FN 509T and the trigger pull was just plain trash and unacceptable. There was no reason for it to be so poor. Nothing beats even a mediocre 1911/2011 trigger though. I am sort of here, but in strikers, find PDP's Echelons, VP9's M&P's, CZ's and Caniks to all be noticeably nicer than even glock gen 6's... while i never shot a 509... I have the same view on glock triggers. thats completely subjective and there are people our there can outshoot me with a stock glock even if i used my built up 2011.... you can make anything work with enough effort.... |
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Originally Posted By Dance: Picked up a used P30L DA/SA and tried the trigger and grip vs a PX4, Beretta GTS, and P226. All are stock and all seem pretty much the same. There may be some minor differences in the pull weight but they all work similarly with the reset, distance of pull, etc. The grips are somewhat different, but all feel similar after gripping them for a short time. I then shot a G17, which had a similar grip feel to the others. Are people too critical of pistol triggers and grip? Now figure out how to shoot guns that Bruce Gray, Rick Holm, and someone like Langdon Tactical has worked on. There's a reason that IYKYK. |
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In general, most are. For example, if I run a stage/drill with a Beretta 92D- There will be a limit to my time/splits/accuracy. If I go to a stock M9/92FS/92G I’ll edge ahead of the 92D Runs. If I go to a D spring the same. A slightly slighter spring, a touch of trigger work, and I’ll edge ahead a touch again. I take out my more highly tuned, better trigger work one- And I see no gain. I am simply not fast enough or accurate enough to harvest further improvement. The same happens with a single action semiauto with me. I can benefit from a 3.5 pound trigger from a 5.5 pound one- but going from 3.5 to 2.0 is of no benefit to me. Or with a striker fired gun. I know everyone thinks they are an awesome shot, and need the perfect trigger- But few benefit past a certain point. |
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There are too many layers to this question. Some things don't matter until they matter. Shooting a true DA trigger is almost a completely different skill set vs shooting a partial DA striker trigger like a Glock. And even within DA triggers, things like weight and staging can matter a lot. I find I shoot the DA triggers on S&W revolvers and Beretta autos better than those on Ruger revolvers or Makarov type guns for various reasons. Once you get into the various SA and striker triggers in the ~5 pound range, you're in an area where things shouldn't matter as much, especially when shooting at combat speed. At some point, I think the shape of the trigger shoe matters more than the pull. The hooked trigger on CZ DA/SA guns, for example, has a really long reach, and that's a problem for some people. Or, and this may be an outlier problem, but I put 250 rounds through my G43X on a hot as balls day with sweat softened hands, and the trigger dingus blistered my finger bad enough I couldn't shoot that gun the following week, but everything with a flat trigger was fine. In terms of grips, similar themes exist. Things can be a minor gripe or a big problem. The low hanging fruit here is short grips on subcompact pistols. There's an obvious difference when a grip isn't long enough to get your full hand on it. Another one is control placement. Some guns have the slide stop right where my shooting hand thumb grips the gun. My options are to not shoot that gun, modify the gun, or re-train for that gun. A big example of a problem here is the manual safety on the S&W EZ pistols. Those guns are marketed to women, but most women don't have hands big enough to have positive control of that safety. That matters. At the other end, I've developed a pretty strong preference for pistols that have texturing higher on the frame and that have good index points/leverage points above the trigger guard. I don't need those things to shoot well, but I like them and I think they do help. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
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There are only thee things I hate when it comes to pistol triggers: Mushy triggers -PSA dagger hinged trigger felt like I was squishing a dog turd before it would go bang. Replaced it with a metal trigger with a dongle and it is 1000x better. Gritty triggers that feel like how sand in your teeth feels -only experienced this one in a pistol, can’t remember the brand Triggers that are so heavy that you are not sure if you finger will break before the trigger does. Not talking about long, heavy, but smooth DA. When you are shooting a single action semi auto and it has a 14lb trigger, that sucks- only fired one pistol like that. 99% of pistol triggers are fine, but an exceptionally good shooter may see some difference in accuracy. |
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Originally Posted By RustedAce: Glock trigger is fine for what pistols are for. This is pretty much my thoughts. Yeah I don’t notice the jello like reset when I’m actually putting rounds down range, just when dry firing. |
"My gun fight is going pretty bad if it involves anything but super soakers at a wet t shirt contest" -Aimless
“3:50 from post to lock, who's the champ? Me, mother fuckers” -Aimless
“3:50 from post to lock, who's the champ? Me, mother fuckers” -Aimless
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Originally Posted By HobbitHunter: More people need to learn to shoot with a DA revolver, then the vast majority of trigger complaints would disappear (outside of crunchy/gritty). That's the only trigger I hate. I prefer a light trigger pull but can shoot DA just fine. Gritty pulls bug the shit out of me and I'll immediately hit the surfaces to smooth them out. Learned all about this on the gen 1 m&p line of pistols |
Preferred calibers:
9mm, 556, 300wm
9mm, 556, 300wm
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I think they are from what I read on Arfcom. I can appreciate a really nice 1911 trigger or a Python with a trigger tuned by Reeves Jungkind, but I'm not as picky as some here. As proof, I'm fine with a worn-in trigger on an early model S&W Sigma. 
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"An age of glory passed like a lightning flash. The mandate of heaven passed from you but you didn't see. Times change and power passes. It is the pity of the world."
Song dynasty poet
Song dynasty poet
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Originally Posted By GriswoldGuns: Triggers that are so heavy that you are not sure if you finger will break before the trigger does. Not talking about long, heavy, but smooth DA. When you are shooting a single action semi auto and it has a 14lb trigger, that sucks- only fired one pistol like that. Hello, fellow Browning High Power shooter!
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| Wide flat triggers with easily depressed smooth faced trigger safeties feel better than curved serrated triggers with narrow sharipish dinguses. I don’t have a problem with the function of a glock trigger, just the geometry and texture which impacts the feel of the shoe in a negative way for me, at least with non gen 5 Glocks…..my USA made gen 5 26 has a smooth faced trigger from the factory and it’s great. |
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Originally Posted By NachoDip: Basement. You mean leave the BASEMENT. Originally Posted By NachoDip: Originally Posted By Predicament: Whoa. You want us to actually shoot our guns? For a lot of us, that means we have to leave the house... Basement. You mean leave the BASEMENT. Fuck you, I ain't doing that! |
Obedience is not patriotism. Patriotism is love of your country, not of your government.
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Originally Posted By fatalerror113: Other than that, I've had no issue with any trigger on any gun that I have. I did change my M&P 1.0 trigger to a metal one, but that was more about liking metal more than plastic, not necessarily the "pull". I replaced the trigger on my M&P 1.0 with the Apex trigger/springs/sear. I didn't dislike the trigger pull, but the hinge was uncomfortable. And weird. I'm more concerned with barrels. My 1.0 barrel was shit for accuracy. The SilencerCo barrel that I replaced it with is crazy accurate. It's like a whole new gun. |
Obedience is not patriotism. Patriotism is love of your country, not of your government.
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Originally Posted By Strela: I think they are from what I read on Arfcom. I can appreciate a really nice 1911 trigger or a Python with a trigger tuned by Reeves Jungkind, but I'm not as picky as some here. As proof, I'm fine with a worn-in trigger on an early model S&W Sigma. Gosh dang the legendary Sigma trigger, I had almost forgotten about them. If you can shoot well with a Smegma you can shoot well with anything. |