User Panel
Posted: 10/22/2021 4:43:28 PM EDT
Did it get approved? I'm not planning to, but I also am not sure how to answer why I am unable to provide a letter, kindly.
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[#1]
You don’t have to. By law, you are already exempt once telling your employer you will be exercising your right to religious exemption. Anything they do beyond that, well, they can fuck around and find out.
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[#2]
Quoted: You don’t have to. By law, you are already exempt once telling your employer you will be exercising your right to religious exemption. Anything they do beyond that, well, they can fuck around and find out. View Quote The burden if proof is in them not you. I am a Christian but I don't go to church and have a leader. |
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[#3]
I don’t think they can require a letter.
Religion is personal. I can make up my own religion if I want and be the only member. |
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[#4]
I am not going to. My beliefs are my own. I find myself disagreeing with the current Pope at every turn it seems. I expect it to be denied. I just need to find a lawyer to speak with. Anybody have a contact? DM's appreciated.
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[#5]
Quoted: I am not going to. My beliefs are my own. I find myself disagreeing with the current Pope at every turn it seems. I expect it to be denied. I just need to find a lawyer to speak with. Anybody have a contact? DM's appreciated. View Quote I called a well reviewed "employment law" attorney off Google, in my area today. They took my info and will get back to me if they can help. Worth a shot |
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[#6]
Quoted: Did it get approved? I'm not planning to, but I also am not sure how to answer why I am unable to provide a letter, kindly. View Quote I would not include a letter from a religious leader. I wouldn't even tell them specifically what religion I ascribe to. https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-discrimination [23] Commission Guidelines, 29 C.F.R. § 1605.1 (“The fact that no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not accept such belief will not determine whether the belief is a religious belief of the employee or prospective employee.”); Welsh, 398 U.S. at 343 (finding that petitioner’s beliefs were religious in nature although the church to which he belonged did not teach those beliefs) (Military Selective Service Act); accord Africa v. Pennsylvania, 662 F.2d 1025, 1032-33 (3d Cir. 1981) (First Amendment); Bushouse v. Local Union 2209, United Auto., Aerospace & Agric. Implement Workers of Am., 164 F. Supp. 2d 1066, 1076 n.15 (N.D. Ind. 2001) (“Title VII’s intention is to provide protection and accommodation for a broad spectrum of religious practices and belief not merely those beliefs based upon organized or recognized teachings of a particular sect.”). Like the religious nature of a belief, observance, or practice, the sincerity of an employee’s stated religious belief is usually not in dispute and is “generally presumed or easily established.”[40] Further, the Commission and courts “are not and should not be in the business of deciding whether a person holds religious beliefs for the ‘proper’ reasons. We thus restrict our inquiry to whether or not the religious belief system is sincerely held; we do not review the motives or reasons for holding the belief in the first place.”[41] The individual’s sincerity in espousing a religious observance or practice is “largely a matter of individual credibility.”[42] Moreover, “a sincere religious believer doesn’t forfeit his religious rights merely because he is not scrupulous in his observance,”[43] although “[e]vidence tending to show that an employee acted in a manner inconsistent with his professed religious belief is, of course, relevant to the factfinder’s evaluation of sincerity.”[44] Factors that – either alone or in combination – might undermine an employee’s credibility include: whether the employee has behaved in a manner markedly inconsistent with the professed belief;[45] whether the accommodation sought is a particularly desirable benefit that is likely to be sought for secular reasons;[46] whether the timing of the request renders it suspect (e.g., it follows an earlier request by the employee for the same benefit for secular reasons);[47] and whether the employer otherwise has reason to believe the accommodation is not sought for religious reasons. However, none of these factors is dispositive. For example, although prior inconsistent conduct is relevant to the question of sincerity, an individual’s beliefs – or degree of adherence – may change over time, and therefore an employee’s newly adopted or inconsistently observed religious practice may nevertheless be sincerely held.[48] Similarly, an individual’s belief may be to adhere to a religious custom only at certain times, even though others may always adhere,[49] or, fearful of discrimination, he or she may have forgone his or her sincerely held religious practice during the application process and not revealed it to the employer until after he or she was hired or later in employment. An employer also should not assume that an employee is insincere simply because some of his or her practices deviate from the commonly followed tenets of his or her religion, or because the employee adheres to some common practices but not others.[51] As noted, courts have held that “Title VII protects more than . . . practices specifically mandated by an employee’s religion.”[52] View Quote |
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[#7]
I would be embarrased to ask Jesus to write a letter like that for me. He likely has more pressing issues and only intermittent access to mailboxes and stamps.
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[#9]
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[#10]
Quoted: I don’t think they can require a letter. Religion is personal. I can make up my own religion if I want and be the only member. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: I don’t think they can require a letter. Religion is personal. I can make up my own religion if I want and be the only member. Quoted: You don’t have to. By law, you are already exempt once telling your employer you will be exercising your right to religious exemption. Anything they do beyond that, well, they can fuck around and find out. Quoted: The burden if proof is in them not you. I am a Christian but I don't go to church and have a leader. Quoted: I don’t think they can require a letter. Religion is personal. I can make up my own religion if I want and be the only member. It isn't required, and it says so on my form, however, it does say please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. I'm having trouble answering that without just saying GFY |
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[#11]
Quoted: It isn't required, and it says so on my form, however, it does say please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. I'm having trouble answering that without just saying GFY View Quote "I have been advised by counsel that due to the outrageous historic persecution of my fellow believers, I will not be answering any specific questions regarding the my sincerely held religious beliefs" Persecution from the government only increased as the Mormon Church continued to grow. In 1882, the Edmunds Act, which outlawed cohabitation with more than one woman, was passed. To enforce this, U.S. President Chester A. Arthur sent the Utah Commission. All Mormons who practiced polygamy were disenfranchised: stripped of the right to vote or forbidden to hold public office. Many of them were also jailed. Although this clearly violated U.S. constitutional law forbidding ex post facto laws, over 1,300 men were jailed. In Idaho, a loyalty oath was instituted in 1885, which required all residents to swear they opposed polygamy or any organization that taught it in order to be given the right to vote. This effectively disenfranchised all Mormons. Mormons appealed these laws all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States, but things only got worse. In 1887, the U.S. Congress passed the Edmunds-Tucker Act, which disincorporated the Mormon Church and seized virtually all of its property. It required loyalty oaths from local officials, which kept even Mormons who were not practicing polygamy (of which there were many) from holding office and which allowed the federal government to appoint state officers and even control what textbooks could be allowed in classrooms. Many thousands of Latter-day Saints languished in prisons. Federal appointees, many unfriendly to the Mormons, were appointed as judges and magistrates in the territory. Mormon leaders went into hiding. Thousands of Mormons fled to Canada and Mexico at this time, where some of their descendents still live today, though some Mormons left Mexico for the United States during the war with Pancho Villa in the early twentieth century. I'm not a member of the Church, but I'm aware of the lengths the US Govt went to strip US citizens of their rights for having differing opinions on religion. I wouldn't be suprised in the least to see a repeat in the future for "wrongthink" |
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[#12]
Quoted: That's the problem though. We need Lawyers that want to help. I am going to make some calls tomorrow. View Quote I found this today. There'sinfo there about startinga class action suit. https://vaxmandateinfo.com/ |
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[#13]
Quoted: It isn't required, and it says so on my form, however, it does say please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. I'm having trouble answering that without just saying GFY View Quote Attach this Supreme Court decision: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/489/829 |
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[#14]
Quoted: It isn't required, and it says so on my form, however, it does say please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. I'm having trouble answering that without just saying GFY View Quote It's not that i don't want to, it's that i don't need to. My conscience is my own. Paul VI wrote: In all his activity a man is bound to follow his conscience in order that he may come to God, the end and purpose of life. It follows that he is not to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his conscience. Nor, on the other hand, is he to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious. Accordingly, no one should be forced to receive a COVID-19 vaccine if it would violate the sanctity of his or her conscience. https://files.milarch.org/archbishop/abp-statement-on-covid19-vaccines-and-conscience-12oct2021.pdf |
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[#15]
Quoted: The burden if proof is in them not you. I am a Christian but I don't go to church and have a leader. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: You don’t have to. By law, you are already exempt once telling your employer you will be exercising your right to religious exemption. Anything they do beyond that, well, they can fuck around and find out. The burden if proof is in them not you. I am a Christian but I don't go to church and have a leader. I would think that as the leader of "church of the the holy ruger556boy" you woudl be the #1 authority of what your church feels on just about every matter, that someone is requesting religious doctrine to be argued as a condition of employment seems highly irregular and potentially 1st amendment violating... |
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[#17]
@mk4dubbin
Check your inbox brother. Good luck in your fight. |
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[#18]
I would just attach court rulings as posted already, and be done with it.
How many threads are in this section about denials? Companies are just going through the motions and are going to deny everything. |
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[#20]
"On the advice of counsel, I decline to answer this question. See section 12 of EEOC guidance on Religious Discrimination."
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[#21]
Anything beyond you affirming you have a sincerely held religious belief that prevents you from getting vaxxed is opening the door further to them denying you. Give your attorney a fighting chance and just affirm your privately held sincere beliefs prevent you from getting the jab.
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[#22]
Quoted: It isn't required, and it says so on my form, however, it does say please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. I'm having trouble answering that without just saying GFY View Quote It's a game of tennis. Always keep the ball in their court. Please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. Answer: Please explain why you ask me to provide something which has zero basis in law. https://thecivilrightslawyer.com/2021/10/20/current-status-of-exemption-requests-for-employer-mandates/ |
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[#23]
I did not include a letter. My case is still "open".
I anticipate them waiting until the last second to deny. I'll definitely update when I hear more. |
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[#24]
Here you go, OP.
You simply need to inform your employer that you have a religious exemption. That's it, nothing more. Google Drive Editable Document ------------------------------------------ Date: Full Legal Name: Address: Phone: Email: Dear Employer, I am writing you to make you aware that I hold a specific religious belief that prevents me from taking a Covid Vaccine. Per United States Federal Labor and Employment Law, my religious beliefs cannot be used as grounds for any termination / retaliation / discrimination. Additionally, I am under no obligation to be specific with you of these beliefs, to enumerate them, or be asked or required to defend them. Please be advised that vaccinations (and certain other medical procedures/applications) violate my deeply held religious convictions. Accordingly, I am exercising my federally protected rights under 42 USC § 2000e–2(a)(et seq) which read as follows: Unlawful employment practices (a) Employer practices It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer— (1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or (2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees or applicants for employment in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. Therefore, please place this letter in my appropriate HR file as a substitute for any such "proof of vaccine" or "certificate of vaccine" that you may need. Thank you. Signature: ___________________________________ Date: ________________________ Full Legal Name |
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[#25]
I’m thinking some of these questions are more meant to dissuade potential applications. The easiest ones for any employer to deal with are the ones that don’t get filed.
I’m pretty active in my church and know my pastor well so that letter isn’t much of an obstacle for me. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over submitting without one though. |
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[#26]
Quoted: Here you go, OP. You simply need to inform your employer that you have a religious exemption. That's it, nothing more. Google Drive Editable Document ------------------------------------------ Date: Full Legal Name: Address: Phone: Email: Dear Employer, I am writing you to make you aware that I hold a specific religious belief that prevents me from taking a Covid Vaccine. Per United States Federal Labor and Employment Law, my religious beliefs cannot be used as grounds for any termination / retaliation / discrimination. Additionally, I am under no obligation to be specific with you of these beliefs, to enumerate them, or be asked or required to defend them. Please be advised that vaccinations (and certain other medical procedures/applications) violate my deeply held religious convictions. Accordingly, I am exercising my federally protected rights under 42 USC § 2000e–2(a)(et seq) which read as follows: Unlawful employment practices (a) Employer practices It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer— (1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or (2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees or applicants for employment in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. Therefore, please place this letter in my appropriate HR file as a substitute for any such "proof of vaccine" or "certificate of vaccine" that you may need. Thank you. Signature: ___________________________________ Date: ________________________ Full Legal Name View Quote Is this something you had drawn up? Something you personally submitted? |
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[#27]
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[#28]
There wasn't a field for that on my electronic form, but I would not have submitted one. Faith does not require a centralized power structure involving generally corrupt people. Look at folks like that dude who wanted a private jet, the pope and associated pedophiles, and countless others. Who cares what those scum have to say?
My recommendations in general when filling out the requests include brevity and focusing on meeting the legal requirements. Do not include any extraneous information or mention of the many other valid reasons for objecting to the vaccine (safety, liberty, and so forth). Consider including what you think the consequence of taking the injection might be in your belief system (e.g. damnation). |
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[#29]
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[#30]
Quoted: Did a lawyer create it? My time has come. Nov 8 deadline to submit. Just emailed two civil rights attorneys seeking guidance. View Quote @J-Dam Wanted to let you know I submitted the exemption notice I posted above and it was accepted without question. HR called me within 15min after I sent the notice and told me I was approved. ETA - I work for a large government contractor. |
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[#31]
Quoted: @J-Dam Wanted to let you know I submitted the exemption notice I posted above and it was accepted without question. HR called me within 15min after I sent the notice and told me I was approved. ETA - I work for a large government contractor. View Quote Very nice. I have yet to hear back. Work for a railroad so i am expecting a mass deny, Amtrak style letter. I think they are just waiting for Nov 8th to send them out. |
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[#32]
It just has to say it is your "sincerely held" religious belief. Sometimes the less you say the better.
Having said that, there are MANY MANY MANY places that will give you a letter. DM me. By the way, file a medical exemption as well. The more paperwork the better. This is not either/or. |
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[#34]
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[#35]
Quoted: It isn't required, and it says so on my form, however, it does say please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. I'm having trouble answering that without just saying GFY View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I don’t think they can require a letter. Religion is personal. I can make up my own religion if I want and be the only member. Quoted: You don’t have to. By law, you are already exempt once telling your employer you will be exercising your right to religious exemption. Anything they do beyond that, well, they can fuck around and find out. Quoted: The burden if proof is in them not you. I am a Christian but I don't go to church and have a leader. Quoted: I don’t think they can require a letter. Religion is personal. I can make up my own religion if I want and be the only member. It isn't required, and it says so on my form, however, it does say please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. I'm having trouble answering that without just saying GFY Just tell them you are your own religious leader. Or leave it blank, or write N/A in the box. |
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[#36]
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[#37]
No letter attached and no religion specified. Got my approval today. Best of luck!
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[#38]
I heard from HR that the leadership group said something to the effect of "we aren't allowing any exemptions" which of course HR told them was not an option, I know a lot of people in important positions that aren't going to go along with it, reap what you sow commies
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[#39]
Quoted: It isn't required, and it says so on my form, however, it does say please explain why you can't provide a letter from a religious leader. I'm having trouble answering that without just saying GFY View Quote Trouble answering? You're already giving it took much thought. Skip past it. They are "asking" you to voluntarily be a part of and experiment and you're refusing. Refusing to answer an asinine question should be easy. |
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