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Posted: 12/14/2018 8:18:38 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a good reminder of what France didn't want to go through again when Hitler was knocking on their door. They were devastated by WW1, and wanted to avoid a repeat at all costs, even if it made them look like cowards who just surrender. It's also a reminder why a lot of French are interested in a European Union and against nationalism. When your next door neighbor has caused millions of your people to die brutally and destroy a bunch of your stuff, you start thinking that maybe working together under the same union wouldn't be so bad. After WW2 there were several efforts to have joint industries and mining so that no one country could independently create a war machine again. The US has been fortunate to have oceans separating it from its enemies. Except for Great Britain and Pearl Harbor and WTC, it has never been invaded, never been bombed. We feel very safe, and staying a separate, independent nation make a lot of sense. Other countries don't have the same history or the same perspective. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 8:32:35 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone lost when you really stop and think about it. About the only thing that was accomplished was the fall of most of the European empires and some borders moved. Oh, and massive war debt. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 8:55:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't remember where I heard it or read it but I once heard it described as "that time that the western hemisphere attempted suicide." Seems about right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It will be remembered as the graveyard of Western Civilization. Seems about right. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:07:42 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It will be remembered as the graveyard of Western Civilization. Seems about right. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. Thank you. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:09:16 AM EDT
[#5]
They Shall Not Grow Old - Full Length
You’re welcome. Someone posted this in an earlier thread. It aired on television in the UK. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:11:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WWII was larger in scale but WWI battles were more condensed. There was a single front where your unit marched to die. Hearing the constant bombardment from miles away while you approach. The world's blood pump in one centralized location. Mind numbing. https://external-preview.redd.it/UiL-TuRSsRP9VPyu7ao0ukP87mjk7sN1A8wznWfdBN0.jpg?width=800&auto=webp&s=148c71ca2023b7dacce982d6c62809d4b9623a81 to General Petain and his helpers from all over the world" Quite the coin |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:17:51 AM EDT
[#7]
 Dropkick Murphys - The Green Fields of France |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:22:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World's leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It's not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:31:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It will be remembered as the graveyard of Western Civilization. Seems about right. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:31:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Old school TAG.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:41:36 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:50:54 AM EDT
[#12]
I'm listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast about WWI right now and he just got to Verdun, I literally cannot imagine what it would be like.
MONTHS of being under constant shelling, units suffering 50% causalities before they even get to the front trench, having to jump out of your trench and shelter in a shell hole to take a shit, trenches filled with unburied bodies, rats and lice. If you make it through all of that you get still have to go over the top at some point and run into a rain of machine gun fire. Fuck that. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:52:57 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That seems....imf'npossible. Note, Im not calling your post into question. More of almost impossible to comprehend and wrap my brain around those figures. Truly Hell on earth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
came to post that coin. I've seen first hand what a few arty rounds here and there can do to scattered people. The thoughts of WW1 arty vs infantry battles is bone chilling. Totally mind-boggling. Note, Im not calling your post into question. More of almost impossible to comprehend and wrap my brain around those figures. Truly Hell on earth. Verdun was was a series of long-drawn-out counter-offenses with the same land changing hands several times. Even so, that's 130K to 200K shells fired every day. Every. Single. Day. For 10 months. That war was insanity and truly Hell on Earth. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:54:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. Imagine how many great minds we lost in both World wars and how far along we could/would be had we continued to advance technologically at the speed of of the early 21st century. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:59:17 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World's leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It's not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about.  (And not just the American flag.)
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:01:51 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can not image a single worse kind of topography for that kind of warfare! Mix in arty. I don't think we have anyone still alive today that can imagine that. I have to agree with other posters here...WW1 was humanity's brutality on full display. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:02:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:03:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably would have been a good idea for France not to declare war on Germany then. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:12:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WOW, I have never really though of it in that light. It makes total sense though. Great post! Imagine how many great minds we lost in both World wars and how far along we could/would be had we continued to advance technologically at the speed of of the early 21st century. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I’ve said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. Imagine how many great minds we lost in both World wars and how far along we could/would be had we continued to advance technologically at the speed of of the early 21st century. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:13:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast about WWI right now and he just got to Verdun, I literally cannot imagine what it would be like. MONTHS of being under constant shelling, units suffering 50% causalities before they even get to the front trench, having to jump out of your trench and shelter in a shell hole to take a shit, trenches filled with unburied bodies, rats and lice. If you make it through all of that you get still have to go over the top at some point and run into a rain of machine gun fire. Fuck that. Western civilization the engine that supports the modern age of enlightenment is fragile. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:18:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of people attribute the end of the depression to WW2. This post shows the opportunity cost between those two wars was so much higher. Mankind was diverted down a dark path with WW1. It has no intention of looking back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I’ve said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. Imagine how many great minds we lost in both World wars and how far along we could/would be had we continued to advance technologically at the speed of of the early 21st century. 1945 marks a steep drop in the willingness of people to fight truly open war. The cost is unbearable now. Sadly history has us all overdue for a correction. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:18:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Horrible.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:23:04 AM EDT
[#23]
All over "Some damned thing in the balkans."
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:25:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And caused WW2 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Looking back, of all the wars that immediately come to mind W.W.I seems the most pointless. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:49:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Twentieth century weapons and basically nineteenth or even eighteenth century tactics. Slaughter.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:51:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
100 years later. https://ww1revisiteddotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/img_8430_snapseed.jpg?w=1200 |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:01:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
40 years later? |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:10:28 PM EDT
[#28]
A brutal affair.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:19:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can not image a single worse kind of topography for that kind of warfare! Mix in arty. I don't think we have anyone still alive today that can imagine that. I have to agree with other posters here...WW1 was humanity's brutality on full display. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
100 years later. https://ww1revisiteddotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/img_8430_snapseed.jpg?w=1200 |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:33:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This podcast is something every person in this thread should make time for. It's compelling and sets the stage for most of the history that led up to and followed ww1. Even now, in the light of the deployment of 2 single stage nuclear weapons in modern cities the single day / month casualty numbers from ww1 are staggering. The somme is just on par with a 20kt weapon over a city. In one day. Western civilization the engine that supports the modern age of enlightenment is fragile. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast about WWI right now and he just got to Verdun, I literally cannot imagine what it would be like. MONTHS of being under constant shelling, units suffering 50% causalities before they even get to the front trench, having to jump out of your trench and shelter in a shell hole to take a shit, trenches filled with unburied bodies, rats and lice. If you make it through all of that you get still have to go over the top at some point and run into a rain of machine gun fire. Fuck that. Western civilization the engine that supports the modern age of enlightenment is fragile. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:39:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It will be remembered as the graveyard of Western Civilization. Seems about right. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:47:26 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:49:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All over "Some damned thing in the balkans." |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:52:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't take it as gospel though. He gets a lot wrong, especially in the pre-war diplomatic stuff. The popular view is once the ultimatum was issued war was a done deal, but Germany and Russia were not automatically pulled into the war, despite what he says. Germany actually fought in the diplomatic arena to get AH to knock it off before it did get out of hand and Russia had enough problems at home to not want to get involved in the Balkans in 1914, especially considering the Balkans had just fought a pretty bloody war amongst themselves in 1912-13. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:55:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the insight. There is a shit ton written on the topic, you have any good books that are accurate but not horribly dry? ADDED: One of the very best courses I took in grad school was on WW1. I'll have to dig through the box with my notes and texts to come up with a few others that are more topic specific. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 1:07:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will be remembered as the graveyard of Western Civilization. By and large, the only European men that survived to the late 1940's were the pussies - hence the Europe of today. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 1:11:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the insight. There is a shit ton written on the topic, you have any good books that are accurate but not horribly dry? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Don't take it as gospel though. He gets a lot wrong, especially in the pre-war diplomatic stuff. The popular view is once the ultimatum was issued war was a done deal, but Germany and Russia were not automatically pulled into the war, despite what he says. Germany actually fought in the diplomatic arena to get AH to knock it off before it did get out of hand and Russia had enough problems at home to not want to get involved in the Balkans in 1914, especially considering the Balkans had just fought a pretty bloody war amongst themselves in 1912-13. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 1:13:40 PM EDT
[#38]
damn, I can't imagine
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Posted: 12/14/2018 1:16:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuote History |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 1:17:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
came to post that coin. I've seen first hand what a few arty rounds here and there can do to scattered people. The thoughts of WW1 arty vs infantry battles is bone chilling. Totally mind-boggling. Note, Im not calling your post into question. More of almost impossible to comprehend and wrap my brain around those figures. Truly Hell on earth. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13067/2018WWIIMG_4263_JPG-712220.jpg |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 1:23:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve said that more than once. The best, strongest, brightest and most patriotic men from the West and the World’s leading nations went to fight a limited war of the kind Europe always fought, and ended up accidentally killing of the cream of its manhood. At the turn of the 20th century the West was approaching its cultural peak- the Upper and middle classes were well educated, entrepreneurial and productive. The working class was becoming educated and was being lifted out of poverty by the late industrial revolution. Scientific and technological progress was being made at speeds unprecidented in human history. The great powers of Western Europe were wealthy, expansionist and expansive, and the US was just starting to hit its stride. The the Great War happened. The very best were killed and their sons and daughters left unborn, or were shattered by the experience. Those who were left were the very young, the very old and the unfit. Then it happened again, and the very young who had grown suffered like their fathers, and much of the continent destroyed. All that were left were the survivors and the unfit. They carried the modern world and its lack of confidence in the West to us today. Then the cultural rot set in. A civilisation that had faced two catastrophic wars and was facing a third that could destroy it completly had had enough. Other, more pernicious philosophies that promised peace, previously resisted, began to look appealing. And here we are. It’s not yet clear if the wounds of WW1 will ever heal, and indeed may yet prove fatal. Worth thinking about. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 1:56:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mission Accomplished Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Everyone lost when you really stop and think about it. About the only thing that was accomplished was the fall of most of the European empires and some borders moved. Oh, and massive war debt. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 2:01:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A brutal affair. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fa/06/f7/fa06f779f5ae4aa4a59701d9963f6ecc.jpg |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 2:02:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just to be clear, you know it started out flat, right? The picture of the spent artillery shells really brings it home! |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 2:24:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dien Bien Phu was in 1954 |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 2:29:11 PM EDT
[#46]
If you were the creator of battlefield V.
“This footage is discounting the contributions of minorities and women in WW1. These people are totally uneducated.” |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 2:39:23 PM EDT
[#47]
We should be more progressive like Europe.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 3:47:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Incredible footage, but I don't understand why people feel the need to colorize black and white.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 3:51:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Start with John Keegan's The First World War. It's a good general history of the war. It's probably at your local library if you want to save a few bucks. ADDED: One of the very best courses I took in grad school was on WW1. I'll have to dig through the box with my notes and texts to come up with a few others that are more topic specific. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Thanks for the insight. There is a shit ton written on the topic, you have any good books that are accurate but not horribly dry? ADDED: One of the very best courses I took in grad school was on WW1. I'll have to dig through the box with my notes and texts to come up with a few others that are more topic specific. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 4:04:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check out The Great War channel on YouTube. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Don't take it as gospel though. He gets a lot wrong, especially in the pre-war diplomatic stuff. The popular view is once the ultimatum was issued war was a done deal, but Germany and Russia were not automatically pulled into the war, despite what he says. Germany actually fought in the diplomatic arena to get AH to knock it off before it did get out of hand and Russia had enough problems at home to not want to get involved in the Balkans in 1914, especially considering the Balkans had just fought a pretty bloody war amongst themselves in 1912-13. Really enjoy it, and with each episode being about 10 minutes, I can squeeze them in almost anytime. |
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