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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:52:15 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I purchased a rifle from gunbroker that a PD "accidentally" sold. I guess the PD realized they screwed up and sold it through a broker and need to get it back. ATF contacts my FFL and they contact me. I am told it was a tax seizure case. I have the court order showing the "Order of Forfeiture" from the original owner. They want me to sign an abandonment form and an agreement to hold harmless. They are treating this as an abandonment to the United States Government. They said they will send an agent with a check on the amount paid. I told them I want to be reimbursed at market value since it's worth more than I paid. Their response is they are making me whole on the amount paid. What are my options? I don't care enough about it to put up a fight but do want to be treated fairly and compensated fairly. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:55:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Count yourelf lucky you're getting a dime. Usually it's just "bend over and smile".
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:56:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your option is to be made whole again and that is what they are doing |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:57:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Time for you to lawyer up and they should pay for that too
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:57:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Count yourelf lucky you're getting a dime. Usually it's just "bend over and smile". |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:58:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Time for you to lawyer up and they should pay for that too |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 11:59:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've talked to an attorney, just don't care enough about it to put up a fight over it. I do want a fair settlement though that's achievable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Time for you to lawyer up and they should pay for that too |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:03:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Break even and get the man back out of your life? Take the money and run.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:07:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Help me make sure I understand: You bought a rifle off of GunBroker from a Police Department that now tells you they made a mistake and would appreciate your help in making it right, and you want to make sure you profit as much as possible off the mistake. Is that correct?
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:07:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've talked to an attorney, just don't care enough about it to put up a fight over it. I do want a fair settlement though that's achievable. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:10:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've talked to an attorney, just don't care enough about it to put up a fight over it. I do want a fair settlement though that's achievable. 
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:10:51 PM EDT
[#12]
When did you buy it? Wouldn't the amount you paid be market price?
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:12:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Ask yourself if you want to piss off the ATF.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:13:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long ago did you buy the gun? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:14:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Take their offer or pepper your anus
They are being nice and could make it miserable for you |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:14:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Help me make sure I understand: You bought a rifle off of GunBroker from a Police Department that now tells you they made a mistake and would appreciate your help in making it right, and you want to make sure you profit as much as possible off the mistake. Is that correct? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:15:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Help me make sure I understand: You bought a rifle off of GunBroker from a Police Department that now tells you they made a mistake and would appreciate your help in making it right, and you want to make sure you profit as much as possible off the mistake. Is that correct? ETA: OP, what is the legal status of the rifle? Did they violate department policy in selling it to you? Why do they need it back so bad? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:15:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When did you buy it? Wouldn't the amount you paid be market price? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:16:32 PM EDT
[#19]
So it has greatly appreciated in value over the past year? In that case I'd get a lawyer started on it ASAP. It will probably cost you a couple thousand for this time/services, but it'd be well worth it.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:17:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Take their offer or pepper your anus They are being nice and could make it miserable for you I don't have any dogs so I'm good there. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:18:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it has greatly appreciated in value over the past year? In that case I'd get a lawyer started on it ASAP. It will probably cost you a couple thousand for this time/services, but it'd be well worth it. 
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:18:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Break even and get the man back out of your life? Take the money and run. Remember, they have unlimited taxpayer provided time and money to fuck with you if they so choose. Do you? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:18:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been playing nice. I want to know if I'm being screwed. They have rules they have to play by as well. I don't have any dogs so I'm good there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Take their offer or pepper your anus They are being nice and could make it miserable for you I don't have any dogs so I'm good there. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:19:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want to fight the seizure, that’s one thing, but as a matter of law you’re just going to get back what you paid. You have a right to be made whole, but not to gain. If I buy gold at $850, now worth $1300 and they give me $850, I can't replace it for less than $1300. So I have not been made whole. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:22:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there it is. Remember, they have unlimited taxpayer provided time and money to fuck with you if they so choose. Do you? Also to comment on the way they are retrieving this firearm with an abandonment form and an agreement to hold harmless. It's almost like they want me to just give it up and not hold them harmless but they don't have an order for forfeiture or seizure. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:23:34 PM EDT
[#26]
IMHO. Not worth the fight.
Breaking even is better.  Bobby Fuller Four - I Fought The Law(1966)  The Clash - I Fought the Law (Official Video) |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:24:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep that is the likely course of action. Was wondering if there were any actual attorneys that have dealt with this. Or someone that can confirm that the ATF is only allowed to reimburse what you paid in a surrender. Also to comment on the way they are retrieving this firearm with an abandonment form and an agreement to hold harmless. It's almost like they want me to just give it up and not hold them harmless but they don't have an order for forfeiture or seizure. 
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:25:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there it is. Remember, they have unlimited taxpayer provided time and money to fuck with you if they so choose. Do you? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:25:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote Historyi appreciate the advice everyone. being GD, i expected more of the lost it in a boating accident or come and take it replies. 
any lawyers want to chime in? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:27:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so you buy guns to make a profit? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:28:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so you buy guns to make a profit? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:30:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about unlimited visits from the angry man. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:30:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about unlimited visits from the angry man. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And there it is. Remember, they have unlimited taxpayer provided time and money to fuck with you if they so choose. Do you? If you mean the OP, sounds like a great way to get deemed "a risk to himself and others" and have all of his shit removed, for the children. 
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:30:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: do you buy guns to lose money when someone makes a mistake and wants them back? if they lose money, that's fine. if they appreciate that's fine too. they are tools and collectibles to me. "Someone" did not make a mistake. The government did. And there is no way out of that. You got a deal. You can fight. You may be right. But they are just too strong. Be happy you are getting your money back. My advice. Worth what you paid for it. But you talk about making profits on guns and you suddenly look like an unlicensed dealer. And ATF loves to fuck people on general principle pour encourager les autres |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:31:45 PM EDT
[#35]
After working with the government for the past 20 years, I would simply tell them you are not sure where it is. They are welcome to look but otherwise you will give them a call if it shows up.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:34:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After working with the government for the past 20 years, I would simply tell them you are not sure where it is. They are welcome to look but otherwise you will give them a call if it shows up. Lets see how it pays off for him. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:35:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not my idea of fun. trying to take the path of least resistance w/o being screwed. kinda feel like i'm being asked to just take this check and sign a waiver. these are not the droids you are looking for. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: How about unlimited visits from the angry man. You are being asked to sign away without a lot of paperwork because it is easier for all involved Their plan B I assure you will not be as friendly. I would ask for a letter saying you did nothing wrong or illegal - then take the check and be happy. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:35:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude. I'm trying to help you out. "Someone" did not make a mistake. The government did. And there is no way out of that. You got a deal. You can fight. You may be right. But they are just too strong. Be happy you are getting your money back. My advice. Worth what you paid for it. But you talk about making profits on guns and you suddenly look like an unlicensed dealer. And ATF loves to fuck people on general principle pour encourager les autres |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:36:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are going to get their gun back. Option A was to ask you nicely You are being asked to sign away without a lot of paperwork because it is easier for all involved Their plan B I assure you will not be as friendly. I would ask for a letter saying you did nothing wrong or illegal - then take the check and be happy. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:36:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, that's what I figured. The you may be right but don't have the resources to prove it is the most likely scenario. No one talked about profits. Profits occur when you sell, I had no intention of selling. They are forcing a sale at a value they determined. Question was if there is a way to challenge that value. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:39:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lying to the ATF is a bold strategy, cotton. Lets see how it pays off for him. You seem to overestimate the world of GG/GS |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:39:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whatever bump you got wouldn't be worth the legal fees and risk unless we are talking some 100K Holland and Holland or NFA items. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:41:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Yuck.
I'd get them off my case ASAP. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:41:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Too bad you had already started to swap out parts on that rifle.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:44:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not how this works...If I make a "mistake", and sell gold at a market low, I don't get to take it back at a market high at the original price. Not to mention the cost of OP's time and the opportunity cost of having his money tied up in the rifle. They fucked up, it's on them to make it right. ETA: OP, what is the legal status of the rifle? Did they violate department policy in selling it to you? Why do they need it back so bad? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:45:34 PM EDT
[#46]
So, what is the gun?
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:47:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Don't fight with the federal .gov. You will never, ever win. Especially not in the long run.
Be thankful you're getting your money back. Sell it back, be polite, and stfu. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:51:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't fight with the federal .gov. You will never, ever win. Especially not in the long run. Be thankful you're getting your money back. Sell it back, be polite, and stfu. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:52:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, what is the gun? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:01:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Help me make sure I understand: You bought a rifle off of GunBroker from a Police Department that now tells you they made a mistake and would appreciate your help in making it right, and you want to make sure you profit as much as possible off the mistake. Is that correct? Sylvan is right. I'd take the check and thank them profusely before they come take the rifle and shoot your dog. |
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