User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:06:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cms81586]
A few weeks ago, our dishwasher started working intermittently. It wouldn’t power on sometimes, and I figured it was on its last leg. Last night, my wife tried to use the garbage disposal, which uses the same outlet, and it would not turn on I unplugged both and checked, the outlet with a tester and it showed that it has power and it’s wired correctly. However, whenever you plug anything into it, the tester immediately changes from showing wired correctly to hot and neutral reversed. It was late, so I didn’t dig too much further into it other than to take off the kickplate and make sure , everything was tight on the outlet. The only thing running off of this breaker is this one outlet for the dishwasher and garbage disposal. Anyone have any thoughts? I’ll check it with a voltmeter later today after work to make sure I’m getting 120v at the plug. I plan on just replacing the Outlet and see if that does anything before buying a new breaker for the panel. I know these plug-in testers can’t really tell the difference if there’s multiple faults so I’m looking for any advice. The video below shows what I’m talking about.
 April 24, 2024  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:13:18 AM EDT
[#1]
And yes, I know it needs a GFCI outlet. The replacement will be a proper one.
|
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:15:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Chase the colored wires all the way back to the panel. Are they swapped? Maybe an intermediate junction box?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:18:16 AM EDT
[#3]
No junction box that I can tell. This has been wired like this for at least the last 10 years. Would it work for that long before finally stopping if it was reversed.
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:18:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Torf]
[#4]
You positive there is no 3-way switch anywhere on that same run? Anywhere in that same room?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:22:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By Torf: You positive there is no 3-way switch anywhere on that same run? Anywhere in that same room? Pretty sure. The dishwasher plug has its own breaker and it wouldn’t make sense to put that on a switch somewhere. The guy who built the house had his father, who is an electrician, pull all the wiring. He did mostly commercial stuff so I’m thinking the use of the red Wiring was just what he had on hand. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:23:53 AM EDT
[#6]
Receptacles fail over time. I just replaced an outlet that had the same security camera pluged in the same receptacle for 20+ years until it gave up the ghost.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:27:33 AM EDT
[#7]
High resistance fault/loose wire somewhere is my guess. You'll have good voltage with no power usage, but zero or low voltage under power.
|
|
|
|
SC, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:27:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Do other things work in the outlet?
Do the dishwasher and disposal work plugged (separately) into another outlet? Do you have a meter? How is the disposal wired, is there a switch on the unit you use to turn it on? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:29:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jarcese: High resistance fault/loose wire somewhere is my guess. You'll have good voltage with no power usage, but zero or low voltage under power. Checked it last night and everything was tight at the outlet. I didn’t check the wiring running to the breaker in the panel though. I’m going to stop by Lowe’s today and buy a new outlet and start from square one with that. Hopefully it’s that simple. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:30:45 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _Matt_: Do other things work in the outlet? Do the dishwasher and disposal work plugged (separately) into another outlet? Do you have a meter? How is the disposal wired, is there a switch on the unit you use to turn it on? Nothing else works in that outlet either. I tried a lamp in a few other things. Both the disposal and the dishwasher work when plugged into other plugs. The disposal works with a power box that plugs into a regular outlet and then uses a pneumatic button on the top of the sink to turn the disposal on and off. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:32:14 AM EDT
[#11]
A few weeks ago, our dishwasher started working intermittently. It wouldn’t power on sometimes, and I figured it was on its last leg. Last night, my wife tried to use the garbage disposal,... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:34:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MeInMediocrity: Two sentences in and I'm already confused. OP has a dishwasher AND a wife? I already use that joke on her. She punched me in the arm and it hurt a little. Then she told me to get to work and fix it. |
|
|
|
TN, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:34:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: martininTN]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jarcese: High resistance fault/loose wire somewhere is my guess. You'll have good voltage with no power usage, but zero or low voltage under power. This. Check the wiring tightness at the breaker panel. High current devices tend to heat wiring and over time loosen the connection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:35:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: Checked it last night and everything was tight at the outlet. I didn’t check the wiring running to the breaker in the panel though. I’m going to stop by Lowe’s today and buy a new outlet and start from square one with that. Hopefully it’s that simple. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: Originally Posted By Jarcese: High resistance fault/loose wire somewhere is my guess. You'll have good voltage with no power usage, but zero or low voltage under power. Checked it last night and everything was tight at the outlet. I didn’t check the wiring running to the breaker in the panel though. I’m going to stop by Lowe’s today and buy a new outlet and start from square one with that. Hopefully it’s that simple. Could be the receptacle doing the same thing as others have said. If it's not, it definitely sounds like something is loose. Is there any other plugs on the circuit? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:36:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jarcese: Could be the receptacle doing the same thing as others have said. If it's not, it definitely sounds like something is loose. Is there any other plugs on the circuit? I just confirmed with the guy who built the house that there are no other receptacles or switches on that particular line |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:40:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By cms81586: I just confirmed with the guy who built the house that there are no other receptacles or switches on that particular line |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:44:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MeInMediocrity]
[#17]
I'm going with
1. Bad outlet 2. Bad connection 3. Wire broken inside the insulation (like from vibration or prior over-bending) Hard to tell from the photo angle, but are some of the wire strips a little short? When replacing the outlet, I would also get new lever nuts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:45:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Also while you're troubleshooting, breakers can become loose also. They will be seated, but arcing can happen over time amd lose the connection to the bus. You're going to have to put load on the circuit while testing at the panel after you replace that outlet. Your breaker is going to test good voltage with no load on it, even if it's loose. Hopefully it's just the receptacle.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:45:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lee_Ho_Fooks]
[#19]
Disregard the below! Got stuck on a call while first typing this.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 8:53:09 AM EDT
[#20]
You’ll eventually find a connection loose or something heat damaged. Could be breaker where connect to panel. Many residentual breakers are “snap” in and fail over many years. Keep looking you’ll find it. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 9:02:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Pull out the breaker also or if you have a empty space in breaker box, put a new breaker in and move the wire to new breaker
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 9:08:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gasgas: Pull out the breaker also or if you have a empty space in breaker box, put a new breaker in and move the wire to new breaker It’s full up. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 9:11:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Is this a multi-wire branch circuit by chance?
|
|
|
|
SC, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 9:12:05 AM EDT
[#24]
Change those connectors to regular wire nuts and see if that fixes it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 9:50:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Torf: You positive there is no 3-way switch anywhere on that same run? Anywhere in that same room? After us checking all the walls for the 15th time, even ones in different rooms, My wife over heard us babbling about it and him saying there has to be another light switch in this house for this circuit. My wife says, could it be that switch way behind the refrigerator? We were both like WTF??? Sure enough about 2' behind the fridge was a switch I had never seen before. The fridge that came with the house was blocking it... Our Mystery was solved. Except WTF they put a second switch there. There were close enough that I could almost touch them. If the fridge was removed, I think I could... 
|
|
|
|
KY, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 9:52:57 AM EDT
[#26]
When you get a meter check voltage hot to neutral and hot to ground. Then check continuity neutral to ground.
You've lost the neutral at the outlet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 9:53:54 AM EDT
[#27]
In for the answer...
Please tag me if you find it. I see strange stuff like this all the time and never hear resolutions to it and it drive me nuts. LOL... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 9:58:59 AM EDT
[#28]
I’ve read through the responses. So far there have been no electricians chiming in. Except maybe the one guy that asked if they work when plugged in separate or another outlet
Good luck OP. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 10:25:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: d1b3]
[#29]
Is that romex or THHN going into the outlet box? If it’s THHN, good luck my friend.
|
|
|
|
IA, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 10:29:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Its not a bad idea to check tightness on the wires in the panel from time to time. Its easy to do and reasonably safe if you take your time.
Good chance you have a loose wire at the breaker. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 10:34:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: OU81ME2]
[#31]
@cms81586
To confirm, you have tried fault testing that outlet by plugging in something other than the dishwasher and or garbage disposal? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 10:39:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Dishwasher was doing weird things a couple years ago like yours. Went and pulled the panel off the breaker box and one wire was lose and melted/cooked pretty good for the dishwasher circuit right at the breaker. (Dishwasher is only thing on that particular circuit).
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 10:49:54 AM EDT
[#33]
I’m assuming that you have a switch for the garbage disposal. That is where your problem is. Not the switch itself but the connections in that box.
|
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 10:50:09 AM EDT
[#34]
My rule #1 when weird intermittent stuff is happening- check the neutral/grounding connections.
|
|
|
SC, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 10:55:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: Nothing else works in that outlet either. I tried a lamp in a few other things. Both the disposal and the dishwasher work when plugged into other plugs. The disposal works with a power box that plugs into a regular outlet and then uses a pneumatic button on the top of the sink to turn the disposal on and off. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: Originally Posted By _Matt_: Do other things work in the outlet? Do the dishwasher and disposal work plugged (separately) into another outlet? Do you have a meter? How is the disposal wired, is there a switch on the unit you use to turn it on? Nothing else works in that outlet either. I tried a lamp in a few other things. Both the disposal and the dishwasher work when plugged into other plugs. The disposal works with a power box that plugs into a regular outlet and then uses a pneumatic button on the top of the sink to turn the disposal on and off. Ok, so just ignore what that tester says, either get a meter on it or just continue to troubleshoot Replace the outlet or breaker, I’d also replace the wago connectors, lots of crappy knockoffs out there |
|
|
CO, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 11:47:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Did they even make the Wago connectors 10 years ago?
I'd remove them completely and wire up the switch direct. Then pop the cover on the main panel and eye ball the connections. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 2:14:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d1b3: Is that romex or THHN going into the outlet box? If it’s THHN, good luck my friend. THHN |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 2:14:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OU81ME2: @cms81586 To confirm, you have tried fault testing that outlet by plugging in something other than the dishwasher and or garbage disposal? Yes I have and nothing else works. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 2:24:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By number40Fan: Did they even make the Wago connectors 10 years ago? I'd remove them completely and wire up the switch direct. Then pop the cover on the main panel and eye ball the connections. Addition was done in 2016 so 8 years ago. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 2:30:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _Matt_: Ok, so just ignore what that tester says, either get a meter on it or just continue to troubleshoot Replace the outlet or breaker, I’d also replace the wago connectors, lots of crappy knockoffs out there That’s the plan. It got late last night and I needed to get to bed. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 2:31:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Loose neutral in panel box.
Plugging in tester and then plugging in dishwasher would possibly show reversed hot and neutral on tester if this was the case. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 2:40:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Is the garbage disposal on a switch and has the tabs been broken to make a combo regular power / switch power.
I would imagine the receptacle has failed and needs replaced and the switch for that matter. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 4:46:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MeInMediocrity]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Explorer225: When you get a meter check voltage hot to neutral and hot to ground. Then check continuity neutral to ground. You've lost the neutral at the outlet. ETA: Of course it may be broken somewhere else like the lever nuts, inside the outlet, or a connection in a box that feeds it. ETA #2: When checking continuity between neutral and ground as the other poster suggested, don't do that if you measure neutral-ground voltage in the first step. Some meters don't like 120 VAC when on the Ohms scale. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 5:05:42 PM EDT
[#44]
I'd suspect those orange push-in splices. Some makes are okay, others POS.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2024 5:12:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bajagringo: I’m assuming that you have a switch for the garbage disposal. That is where your problem is. Not the switch itself but the connections in that box. No he's using an air switch,not a wall switch. Roy |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/25/2024 5:24:14 AM EDT
[#46]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/25/2024 5:35:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: Update https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_0572_jpeg-3197326.JPG I https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_0574_jpeg-3197327.JPG 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/25/2024 7:44:17 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: Yep, like I said. Loose neutral in panel. Good call |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/25/2024 8:46:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Codyboy]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bajagringo: I’m assuming that you have a switch for the garbage disposal. That is where your problem is. Not the switch itself but the connections in that box. There should also be a separate switch for the DW too. I would check that switch and the connections. Also trying to figure out why they used 3 wire w/ground? Is it a 240 circuit for some reason and getting backfeed from the other leg? ETA should have scrolled further down. carry on |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/25/2024 8:50:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Codyboy]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: Update… https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_0572_jpeg-3197326.JPG I https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_0574_jpeg-3197327.JPG Looks like 17 and 14 are heating up too. ETA In pic in the OP why are those wagos even there? The wire is plenty long enough to contact the outlet directly. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File