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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:10:08 PM EDT
Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) is looking into pay abuse at one federal agency. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms misclassified 94 administrative positions as law enforcement jobs. Those jobs were eligible for special pay that’s traditionally reserved for law enforcement officers in government. The Office of Personnel Management partially suspended ATF’s job classification authority after a review found problems with those 94 positions. Grassley said some ATF employees are earning higher pay than they should. He learned about the problems from a whistleblower at the agency.


https://federalnewsnetwork.com/federal-newscast/2021/10/senator-looking-into-potential-pay-abuse-at-atf/
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:11:01 PM EDT
Now do the VA and Covid bonuses
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:12:05 PM EDT
I long for the world where this is the worst an executive agency does in any given day.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:13:02 PM EDT
Meh... 'paid too much' isn't really in my top 10 "Things that are wrong with the ATF".... but I'll allow it
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:13:39 PM EDT
Betcha they did it for more then just pay reasons.

Bets on these people all having fed LEO creds so they can CCW anywhere they damn well please?
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:23:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Atomic_Ferret:
Betcha they did it for more then just pay reasons.

Bets on these people all having fed LEO creds so they can CCW anywhere they damn well please?
View Quote

I kinda agree. I'd say there were plenty of little things they did while pretending to federal LE.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:27:34 PM EDT
The best solution would be to abolish the ATF.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:28:59 PM EDT
In reality, nobody at the ATF is a law enforcement officer.  Law enforcement's job is to "protect and serve."  The ATF does none of this.  Their only function is to force compliance with arbitrary regulations set forth for tax purposes.  Their interaction with the public is nothing but intrusion and harassment.  They do not protect or serve the public.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:29:13 PM EDT
So, can THIS be the reason we finally scuttle the fucking ATF, or do they need to shoot a few dozen more mothers in the head?
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:32:40 PM EDT
My question is, why are government employees given bonuses? They don’t manufacture anything they don’t provide any services.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:35:22 PM EDT
MFrs be stealing my valor
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:36:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MtnMusic:
Meh... 'paid too much' isn't really in my top 10 "Things that are wrong with the ATF".... but I'll allow it
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:39:29 PM EDT
This is the type of thing that a agency fears from a party out of power least they regain power. It does not seem like much put don't think that they don't pay attention to it and perhaps start to cool their jets a bit because of it.....No agency wants to be on the outs with Congress when there's a good chance of a power shift least they get hit with austerity measures.....Good job Senator.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:41:06 PM EDT
Cancel ATF.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:41:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clasky:
Law enforcement's job is to "protect and serve."
View Quote
Coulda sworn SCOTUS has determined that this is not, in fact, true.  And why there is no LEO duty to individuals vs. a collective public good, or something to that effect.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 6:49:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clasky:
In reality, nobody at the ATF is a law enforcement officer.  Law enforcement's job is to "protect and serve."  The ATF does none of this.  Their only function is to force compliance with arbitrary regulations set forth for tax purposes.  Their interaction with the public is nothing but intrusion and harassment.  They do not protect or serve the public.
View Quote



How can you say this!

They did a GREAT job enforcing firearm laws at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

"Protect and Serve" they most certainly did.

I feel much safer.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 7:05:09 PM EDT
Most of their investigators just audit FFLs, Monday through Friday, day shift.  Yet the claim the 25% Federal LEO bonus.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 7:15:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DougR:
Most of their investigators just audit FFLs, Monday through Friday, day shift.  Yet the claim the 25% Federal LEO bonus.
View Quote

Which is for those LEOs who work a mandatory 50 work week IIRC, when all other bureaucrats work 40 hours.

Kharn
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 8:34:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HMCS:

I kinda agree. I'd say there were plenty of little things they did while pretending to federal LE.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HMCS:
Originally Posted By Atomic_Ferret:
Betcha they did it for more then just pay reasons.

Bets on these people all having fed LEO creds so they can CCW anywhere they damn well please?

I kinda agree. I'd say there were plenty of little things they did while pretending to federal LE.


Hazard pay, accelerated retirement also.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 8:46:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clasky:
In reality, nobody at the ATF is a law enforcement officer.  Law enforcement's job is to "protect and serve."  The ATF does none of this.  Their only function is to force compliance with arbitrary regulations set forth for tax purposes.  Their interaction with the public is nothing but intrusion and harassment.  They do not protect or serve the public.
View Quote


This for the MFW!
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 8:52:22 PM EDT
Snagging that LEAP at a non 1811 position?
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 8:56:31 PM EDT
My guess is that these were 1811s (Criminal Investigators)  that somehow shoehorned themselves into a cushy mission support gig that should’ve been handled by non-sworn GS employees at a much lower level.

Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:17:32 PM EDT
Last thing they want is OPM actually reviewing their pay structure and practices.   They'd all end up topping at GL 9 with no OT allowed.  That'd be a real shame.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:18:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2021 9:18:52 PM EDT by Phocks]
Double tap
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:24:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By staringback05:
MFrs be stealing my valor
View Quote

Why would you out yourself as an ATF agent here?  That's like wearing a MAGA hat at a gay parade.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:38:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fowty:

Why would you out yourself as an ATF agent here?  That's like wearing a MAGA hat at a gay parade.
View Quote


Who said anything about the atf being le? Damn 21rs
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:40:04 PM EDT
What I can't believe is that OPM told them there was a problem, and the ATF just said fuck it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:41:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2021 9:42:19 PM EDT by Fowty]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By staringback05:


Who said anything about the atf being le? Damn 21rs
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By staringback05:
Originally Posted By Fowty:

Why would you out yourself as an ATF agent here?  That's like wearing a MAGA hat at a gay parade.


Who said anything about the atf being le? Damn 21rs

Ah, I thought you were saying the administrative employees are stealing your valor.  Cause you're a real dog kicker, I mean door kicker.  Damn nonpaying members.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:53:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Power2thePeople:
The best solution would be to abolish the ATF.
View Quote

Too many son in laws and brother in laws work there.  Plus it’s easier to skim money off of an entity that size.  It’s not going anywhere.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:53:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Cancel ATF.
View Quote


Nonsense. Defund them
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 9:59:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jwidman:
Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) is looking into pay abuse at one federal agency. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms misclassified 94 administrative positions as law enforcement jobs. Those jobs were eligible for special pay that’s traditionally reserved for law enforcement officers in government. The Office of Personnel Management partially suspended ATF’s job classification authority after a review found problems with those 94 positions. Grassley said some ATF employees are earning higher pay than they should. He learned about the problems from a whistleblower at the agency.


https://federalnewsnetwork.com/federal-newscast/2021/10/senator-looking-into-potential-pay-abuse-at-atf/
View Quote

only 94? figured it would be much higher. aka, all of them.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 10:04:43 PM EDT
Hope all 94 go like this ...


Link Posted: 10/13/2021 10:11:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clasky:
In reality, nobody at the ATF is a law enforcement officer.  Law enforcement's job is to "protect and serve."  The ATF does none of this.  Their only function is to force compliance with arbitrary regulations set forth for tax purposes.  Their interaction with the public is nothing but intrusion and harassment.  They do not protect or serve the public.
View Quote


It pays the cost to be the Boss. Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 10:14:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Power2thePeople:
The best solution would be to abolish the ATF.
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/13/2021 10:24:47 PM EDT
Meh. It's a start, I guess.

Link Posted: 10/13/2021 10:26:22 PM EDT
FATF
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 10:35:58 PM EDT
It's likely they have no idea either.

My job is under a special pay table from opm.

It could be completely the wrong pay table and I would have no idea since I didn't get to pick which pay table I'm assigned, it was assigned to me when I was hired.

So fuck the ATF, but I feel sorry for the individual agents that might get raked over something that is likely outside of their control.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 10:40:30 PM EDT
The whole lot and anyone involved should be fired on the spot and banned from public service sector ever again.  Also all the overpay comes due on their taxes.

Or could do like China handles corruption and.. COC
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 12:35:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 12:39:07 AM EDT
I was hoping the thread title was bait, cause they are the master of it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 1:00:32 AM EDT
Most LEO'S are sworn to uphold the laws of whatever state/city they are serving in. I think the SCOTUS ruling was that law enforcement has no duty to protect individuals, but only the public at large.  Something like that anyway. I think the case involved three women who inadvertently let a thug into their house. They called 911, but the thug yanked the cord out. Cops came, no one answered the door and there were no signs of forcible entry. Cops left and the guy used them for his private harem for 3 days. The ladies were pissed and sued the town for being denied police protection. They lost. The thug was caught and sent to prison.

Good case to remember when the Karen's cry about guns.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 1:16:07 AM EDT
Paper shufflers with combat pay?
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 1:26:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2021 1:30:26 AM EDT by Rincon_11]
OPM will end up getting their money back by docking their checks every two weeks until the debt is paid.  Depending how long this has gone on for, they could be in for a very long time of light paychecks.  Not defending the ATF but this sounds like a procedural screw up, not a case of people involved in a elaborate scam.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 2:15:17 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rincon_11:
OPM will end up getting their money back by docking their checks every two weeks until the debt is paid.  Depending how long this has gone on for, they could be in for a very long time of light paychecks.  Not defending the ATF but this sounds like a procedural screw up, not a case of people involved in a elaborate scam.
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Depends.  Unless there is fraud or misrepresentation involved, they'll just have their jobs reclassified from, say, GL12 to GS 9 as the cap. They wouldn't have to pay back a cent.  Depending on the exact grades involved there might not be any real reduction in pay at all, just no ability to get an automatic raise some time in the future.  For example, if GL12 was the cap, but their position, according to OPM, should have capped at GS9, it's possible that some or all of the 94 affected still haven't even reached the 12 level due to just being hired. They might have all been hired as 5s a year ago and are still not even to the 9 level.  

The article doesn't really provide enough information to know.  Also, historically, employees have requested an audit by OPM because they thought they were underpaid, and OPM determined they were actually being overpaid based on actual work performed.  It would be hilarious if that were the case here.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 4:07:15 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Phocks:


Depends.  Unless there is fraud or misrepresentation involved, they'll just have their jobs reclassified from, say, GL12 to GS 9 as the cap. They wouldn't have to pay back a cent.  Depending on the exact grades involved there might not be any real reduction in pay at all, just no ability to get an automatic raise some time in the future.  For example, if GL12 was the cap, but their position, according to OPM, should have capped at GS9, it's possible that some or all of the 94 affected still haven't even reached the 12 level due to just being hired. They might have all been hired as 5s a year ago and are still not even to the 9 level.  

The article doesn't really provide enough information to know.  Also, historically, employees have requested an audit by OPM because they thought they were underpaid, and OPM determined they were actually being overpaid based on actual work performed.  It would be hilarious if that were the case here.
View Quote


I have never seen that scenario play out, but I'm not going to say it hasn't happened.  Have you ever seen that?  I have on the other hand witnessed first hand the one I described.  Usually the error is caught within a few pay periods and the damage is minimal.  Even if it's their screw up, they always get their money back, with interest.  Just like the IRS.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 4:09:04 AM EDT
A - T - F, F - B - I, M - O - U - S - E.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 4:47:41 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clasky:
In reality, nobody at the ATF is a law enforcement officer.  Law enforcement's job is to "protect and serve."  The ATF does none of this.  Their only function is to force compliance with arbitrary regulations set forth for tax purposes.  Their interaction with the public is nothing but intrusion and harassment.  They do not protect or serve the public.
View Quote


Atf does do some good work with bad guys. They put legitly bad dudes away.

Mess with innocent folks too? Sure.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 5:00:29 AM EDT
Government can get back to me when I can go into a store and buy a suppressor over the counter and shoot it that day.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 6:05:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2021 6:07:39 AM EDT by Arty8]
Pay problems in the federal government actually are pretty rare. My buddy changed agencies and they screwed up his step....and he did have to pay the money back....every cent.   The mistake went on for 2 years  until they caught it during an audit.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 6:17:39 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2ndamendmentknights:
Now do the VA and Covid bonuses
View Quote
What is this?
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 6:59:59 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By madmathew:
What is this?
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Originally Posted By madmathew:
Originally Posted By 2ndamendmentknights:
Now do the VA and Covid bonuses
What is this?

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