Received this with no indication of the original author.

Passing it forward.

-----------------------

[Note: I received the following over the weekend. It is long, but well
worth the read if you want to really understand the program there, how
Navy leadership failed those who were injured and killed in this Islamic
terror attack, and the real scope of who was involved. Much of this runs
contrary to the official government/media narrative, which should come as
no surprise to any informed person. I have added some bolding for
emphasis.]

From: A Veteran with 20+ years of service, a Naval Aviator who flew combat
missions in Iraq, had 15+ years in counter-terrorism and served as a
flight instructor at NAS Pensacola.

I reported to Building 633 at Naval Air Station Pensacola in October of
2002. Checking in to flight school is a point in time for each future
aviator that is never forgotten. Nobody becomes a Naval Aviator by
accident.

Setting foot on the quarterdeck and dropping your orders to get stamped at
Naval Aviation Schools Command is the culmination of years of
applications, college, physical training, aptitude screenings, FBI
background checks, and performance well above your peer group who had also
been competing for the coveted pilot spot . If you get there via the
Naval Academy, ROTC, or Officer Candidate School, when you get to
Pensacola, you have made it, but you are also just starting.

Instructors and staff refer to the entirety of the training program as
The Pipeline . The start of The Pipeline is the front desk at
Building 633 in Pensacola. This is where the first reality check for
future aviators sets in, as class and flights don't start the next day.
There are only a certain number of seats for each API (Aviation Preflight
Indoctrination) class, and there is a waiting list. A-Pool is where
you wait (a pool of people, not of water). Building 633 is where A-Pool is
administered, and where the weekly Friday morning muster takes place, and
where the next weeks class up list is announced.

This is where the terrorist attack took place.

The Naval Aviation Training Pipeline at a glance:

-A Pool. Pensacola.

-Aviation Preflight Indoctrination (API), 4 weeks of academic classes and
water survival courses. Pensacola.

-Primary Flight Training (150ish hours in a T-6 Texan). Pensacola or
Corpus [Christi]

-Advanced Flight Training (Jets, Props, Helicopters). Wings are earned at
completion of Advanced. Pensacola (Helicopters), Corpus (Props),
Kingsville & Meridian (Jets)

-Fleet Replacement Squadron. (Learning your fleet aircraft). Navy, Marine,
and Coast Guard aviators all go through the same training pipeline through
Advanced.

It was just after 0700 last Friday when my phone starting ringing. A
relative's best friend called her in a panic because her husband
wasn't responding, and she wanted to know if I knew anything. Luckily,
he is a doctor at the hospital at Corry Station, about 3 miles away and
nowhere near the shooting and I was able to put them at ease for his
safety.

I had a group chat with about 20 officers still in the area. Friends and
co-workers were exchanging information, all of them aviators, many still
on lock down. Some of them were directly in charge of the response and
involved in the investigation. All of this is available now in open media,
but this is what I know.

The Saudi terrorist checked in on Monday and seemed normal . He held
the dinner party on Thursday night with more than 10 Royal Saudi Air
Force Officers in attendance. At this party, they watched videos of mass
shootings, mostly Islamic propaganda. The next morning, Friday, he
systematically attacked building 633 while one of his fellow officers
followed and filmed, several other Saudis waited and observed the attack
from a car.

The attacker started at the Quarterdeck (front desk), and the 3 killed
were on duty at the time. Ensign Watson was the duty officer, was shot 5
times and still managed to call first responders and evacuate the building
and personally direct them to the location of the shooter prior to dying
of his wounds. The other 2 killed were also in the immediate vicinity of
the quarterdeck. Many of the wounded were as well, some being wounded as
they tried to climb out of windows.

Per Navy policy, none had weapons to defend themselves.

The first responders that confronted the shooter were from the local
sheriff's department. Two were wounded in the gun battle, and the
terrorist was killed. Three active duty Americans were dead, 8 more
wounded, 2 deputies wounded. Many of the wounded were shot through the
doors of classrooms on multiple floors of building 633. Most of the base
remained on lockdown well into the afternoon as the base was
systematically searched for the missing Saudi terrorists officers. By
days end, 6 additional Saudi Arabian officers were in FBI custody, and
several were at large in the community and a man-hunt is still underway.

So, over a 5 day span, the terrorist checked in, acquired a handgun with 4
extended magazines and ammunition, posted a manifesto online condemning
the US as a nation of evil along Islamist and anti-Semitic lines,
planned and executed his attack with at least 3 accomplices. At least 10
Saudi Military Officers knew of the plan, and either participated or did
nothing to stop it. Each one of these individuals had passed the screening
process to come train in the United States. That brief recount of the
chain of events begs a series of questions, some of which are easier to
answer than others.

Here are some of the most obvious questions, and my best effort to answer
them.
 Was this terrorism?

Absolutely. Much has been made of the lack of a formal declaration by the
Military or other Federal Authority, but I understand the delay. Not only
is a long term alliance involved (more on that later), but there are
several members of the Royal Saudi delegation still at large within the
United States. If you declare all of them terrorists, it makes the
possibility of an orderly surrender virtually zero. On the off chance that
these guys were at Waffle House at the time of the attack and are freaked
out and hiding, it's appropriate to not label them terrorists, yet.
Congressman Gaetz has appropriately called this terrorism and called for a
review of entire program.
Why are we training Saudis in Pensacola?

While the brightest light is on the Saudis in the program, we train
aviators from multiple nations in Pensacola. Germany, Sweden, and
Singapore also have a large volume of students train in Pensacola. The
obvious comparison to this incident is to the fact that the majority of
the 9-11 hijackers trained in Florida. It is an important distinction to
note that all of those individuals were civilians and had no interaction
with any military training program.

It is equally important to note that 10+ members of the Royal Saudi Air
Force knew of a planned mass murder of American military, and either
participated in it or agreed in principal to allow it to happen.

Saudi Arabia is currently our strongest ally in the Middle East. We base
troops there, we stage equipment there, we get our fuel for operations
from there. If we are going to be involved in the Middle East, we need an
ally like Saudi Arabia.

We were also allies with Iran, until the Islamic Revolution there resulted
in the famous hostage situation.  Then were the allies with Iraq, until
Saddam fired on the USS Stark (killing 37 sailors) and subsequently
invaded Kuwait. So for now, we are allied with Saudi Arabia.
What is it like training an international student?

Each nation is different, and it was interesting to see some stereotypes
play out and interact with different cultures. The Swedish and Norwegians
were your typical vikings. The Germans were often humorless, focused, and
smart. The Singaporeans were incredibly disciplined, and this group of
students policed itself in an impressive manner. Any Sing who did poorly
on a flight or test would have the other students ensure they did well the
next time around. I’d gladly fight alongside any of these guys any day
of the week. I stay in touch with several of my students as their careers
advance.

The Saudi students have an entirely different reputation and structure to
their training. While all of the other nations employ a form of
meritocracy to be in the flight program, the Saudi students are typically
the child of a Saudi sheik, politician, or member of a rich/important
Saudi family. They all drive luxury vehicles, and flaunt their wealth to
the other students and instructors. It isn't unusual to see a Saudi
student wearing designer shoes that cost thousands of dollars with their
uniforms instead of their issued shoes or boots.

The Saudis do not stand any of the squadron watches (Like assistant OOD
(Officer of the Deck), where the flight schedule is executed), while other
nations participate fully in squadron functions. The Saudis also have a
cadre of senior officers in Pensacola, ostensibly to monitor and aid the
progress of the students. They employ a number of former/retired (US) Navy
pilots to serve as tutors to the Saudis, and also to provide instruction
on how to properly interact with their US instructors and inside of
American society. The retired officers also act as a liaison to the
American command structure.

Our instructors are told that we can only instruct the Saudis in flying.
Issues regarding disciple, respect, or military bearing, etc all have to
be referred to the liaisons. Those issues are rampant among the Saudi
contingent, and are well known among the chain of command. While there are
certainly some Saudi students who have been respectful and disciplined,
the norm is an aloof, arrogant child who seemingly feels superior to his
instructor.

American and non-Saudi international students are expected to show up to
the pre-flight briefs ready to explain all of the concepts required in the
flight to the instructor (proof they study and paid attention in class).
Saudi students often show up to briefs unprepared to meet that standard,
and expect the material to be presented to them anew. The norm for the
Saudis is to pass the student regardless of performance, unless they are
simply a danger to themselves, then they get referred back through the
liaisons.

We are paid to move them through the pipeline and deliver them having
completed the syllabus. We can't make them study. One friend had a
Saudi student refuse to recover an aircraft from a spin, and simply threw
up his hands and stated If Allah wills it, it will recover. This was
during out-of-control flight, with the aircraft falling several thousand
feet per minute. The instructor took the controls, recovered from the
spin, and returned to base. That student eventually graduated.

I have had conversations over the last 3 days with at least a dozen
current or former Navy flight instructors. Unanimously, the sentiment is
that Saudis should be expelled from training in our program. Not only is
there legitimate concern for personal safety and national security, there
is a general feeling that they won't be able to put their feeling aside
and provide proper training.
Why did the Sheriff Department have to stop the
shooting and not active duty watch-standers or military police?

In short, because the Sailors at NAS Pensacola were failed by their
leadership.

After the Naval Reserve Center in Chattanooga was attacked by a Muslim
terrorist, then Candidate Trump was critical of the policy of military
members being disarmed while on duty. The only reason that the Chattanooga
body count wasn't higher, was because the Navy Commanding Officer (an
aviator) had disregarded policy and had his personal handgun with him in
his office and he confronted the attacker and returned fire. He would
later say that he disregarded policy because the safety of his command was
his ultimate responsibility. He defended his command that day, and saved
lives.

The next iteration of the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act)
included provisions to allow commanders the discretion to allow CHL
holders to bring their personal weapons onto base to defend themselves in
similar instances. Tragically, no US commander has had the guts to
implement the allowances granted by law.

We didn't learn our lessons with the Fort Hood shooting, The Navy Yard
Shooting, The Chattanooga shooting, so now we have this. Will we finally
recognize the threat and allow those who have sworn to defend the
constitution of the United States the ability to defend themselves while
at work on US soil? I doubt it. Sadly, I think it will take an action
similar to what President Trump took with Chief Gallagher to make stubborn
and stupid Navy leadership do what is the obvious and correct course of
action.
Should we have seen this coming?

Absolutely. When I told my father (a retired Naval Aviator) that a foreign
student was responsible, he responded I'll bet it was a Saudi.

A brother is a veteran Naval Flight Officer who trained in Pensacola. His
response, It's probably a Saudi.
My neighbor from Pensacola who now flies for an airline Mother F***,
you know it was a Saudi!â€

For some reason, there is a political push to excuse these attacks as
one-off, or that the perpetrator was radical . The news is already
saying There is no direct link to a terrorist organization, as if
ISIS gives out membership IDs and T-Shirts. The Politically Correct folks
tell us to not judge an entire religion or culture by the actions of a
single individual.

The Factually Correct among us look at this chain of events and see no
coincidences. The fact that such a large portion of the Saudi contingent
knew of the impending attack and chose to participate, and none chose to
stop it show the truth that many have long known but few in leadership
will acknowledge. The actions taken by this Royal Saudi Officer were not
at all extremist . His views and actions were well in line with the
mainstream Saudi Officer in the unit.

Defenders of Islam will say that it is a Religion of Peace and only
extremists join the terror groups. With sad irony, many critics of
Islamic terrorism have observed the rise of ISIS with their pool of men
and resources flowing largely from Sunni Saudi Arabia have said said that
it's the extremist Muslim who is actually fighting, but the peaceful
Muslim is the majority.they just write the checks. The example in
Pensacola shows us that it's the minority extremist shooting his
classmates, it's the peaceful Muslim standing alongside filming.

Students of history will know that these terror attacks are not random nor
motivated by extreme thinking. It is an American tendency to think
that history started in 1776, or maybe 1492 at the earliest. Our schools
teach world history and battles that took place in Europe as being between
empires like the Romans and Ottomans .

They leave the parts out where it was the HOLY Roman Empire that defeated
the ISLAMIC Caliphate in Vienna, September 11th 1683. This military defeat
and it's date is etched into the cultural identity of every Muslim just
like the Alamo and San Jacinto are taught to kids in Texas. The only
difference is that Texas school children don't have a religious document
telling them that the conquest continues and it is their life-long Jihad
to install islam as the law of the entire world.

The events in Pensacola last Friday are minuscule in the scope of world
history. It is, however, a perfect illustration of the war of cultures
(and yes, religions) that we currently find ourselves in as participants.
While the Politically Correct in Washington will likely downplay the
details and work to wipe the event from the headlines to preserve an
alliance, the Factually Correct among us are still walking the streets
with Saudi terrorists at large.

Those in our military will follow the orders they gave their oaths to
follow, though we strongly disagree with them. We will likely continue to
risk our lives and work to train people that hate us, and would kill us if
given the opportunity. The King of Saudi Arabia can say that the actions
don't reflect those in his Kingdom. The facts make him a liar.
Where do we go from here?

1. Immediately allow all Commissioned Officers and senior NCOs (E-7+) who
are qualified (military or CHL) to carry a military equivalent or issued
weapon while on duty.

2. All Saudi personnel in the US should be restricted to base, and have
their quarters searched for weapons. If they had no knowledge, they should
be expelled. If they did have knowledge or participated, they should be
executed.

3. Suspend training Saudi personnel indefinitely. Only resume the program
when the FBI can conduct background checks for each student and officer.
Once screened and admitted, Saudi students should be restricted to base
and not allowed into the community.

4. Evaluate the alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia beyond the
fact that they are a client nation buying billions of dollars in weapons
and training. Is our strategic relationship with the Saudi government
worth the cost inflicted on us by a Saudi population which clearly hates
us and continues to do us harm. Do the officers that we train for combat
ever actually participate in conflict in a meaningful way that supports US
interests or relieve demand on US forces. If not, disband the program
forever.

5. Be better students of history. Value reality above wishful thinking.
Judge cultures and religions by what they do, rather than what they want
you to think. Take political blinders off and build and execute policy
based on reality rather than wishful thinking.

That is all.

Good read.

Yes.

Good info.

In before some goof with a TL/DR

Good read

He's spot-on in every point except for limiting on-base carry to officers and senior NCO's only.

Tagging to share later.

Contracts.  But like the article said, they aren't under any pressure to perform.

We had some Saudis ass rape an American rotary wing student a few years back.  When they weren't handing out expensive ink pens and other gifts, driving around in a Ferrari or skipping class for a week to tour the country.  Failing them is never an option, a Prince doesn't fail.

The media is a major part of the problem...Good read.

Wow, that insight is disturbing.

Yep, if you are standing watch, you should be armed.

A long read but worth it. I learned a lot and agree with the conclusions.

Disciple instead of discipline mid wall of text.  Good read and seems to be on point.

A small part of that excellent read brought up a point that needs to be emphasized: Has a Saudi pilot ever engaged in a meaningful way in the defense of their country or the coalition of "friendly nations".

Bottom line:  If they are not going back home and standing station in defense of their homeland, the whole program needs to be scuttled.

Great read.

Who gives a shit what they do? Threaten them.  With friends like that who needs enemies? The kingdom is a huge sponsor of terrorism.

Supposedly the sum they pay the Navy for this is insane.

If this is to continue, the price should go up as well. By a factor of about ten, along with the suggestion of keeping them under lock and key for every single minute they are here.

I'm sure the argument would be regarding Saudi military training in CONUS (and military sales in general) is that if we do not do it, the Russians surely will.

Stop training them here, period!  What stops the next one from stealing a jet and making a suicide run into a large metro area?

On a side note, I would be more concerned with the ones that are disciplined and paying attention.  The obnoxious ones throwing their money around and partying are probably not the ones thinking about making a suicide run.  They are the ones that make sure the family of the attacker is well taken care of.

Quite interesting

It is posts like this that make GD worth checking out

That's an act of war not terrorism. Have the Saudis rounded up and executed their family's yet? If not fuck em we don't need allies there anymore.

The whole thing has the ring of truth to it, and is quite accurate to my experience.

If you’re on a watch in any branch of service, you should be armed. And Saudis do not belong in our training, period. Plenty of other ME nations have good troops, we should toss them out for this. Actions have consequences.

Executing Saudis is a little much but I understand the point he’s making.

9.5/10

The money aspect won't matter to them.

Hes not wrong

Bases should allow chl and we shouldn't be training saudis here when we have a base in the kingdom

Great read

First post that long I have read all of. Good read.

All complete and total common sense.

It is illogical that military personnel should be restricted from carrying weapons, at least in many situations.

It is government politics and general incompetence at the root of many of these scenarios. There should be accountability for bad decision making and people should be fired.

Jesus, reading that really pissed me off.  And most of those dirty goat fuckers will simply be sent home...

While agree with everyone that the issues of personnel protection and foreign visitor vetting are serious, I fear your point is being lost.  This was clearly planned far in advance.  Saudi military logistics were utilized to coordinate that planning, placing the right people in the right place at the right time, and the attack was supported by multiple on-scene parties.  With or without the knowledge/influence of the royal/ruling caste is irrelevant.  This is fucking serious.

Great read.

How do we get the President to read this?

Think of all the beautiful foreverwars caused by that terrorism.

The logistics of that is simply untenable.  You can't do it with military weapons.  Those need to be in a logbook, stored in an armory, chain of custody, etc, etc.  Every watchstander in a building separate from the armory, or out in town (eg NOSC Chattanooga), and so forth, they're going to need to draw weapons, then travel, there and back again...  the time suck alone will be huge, and that's even if you can get enough weapons out to enough armories.

We pay for armed security instead, because they're not burdened by our weapons policies.

CHL/CCW could work, but now you're at the mercy of state laws.  The majority of military personnel are overseas or in blue states (probably 60% of the Navy is in California and Hawaii), and even if they're not, you're still under federal pressure that makes it difficult to get a handgun unless you're 21 (which, a good portion of the military is not).

And that's only just scratching the surface of all the hurdles.  It's much easier to do nothing, which is what we're likely to do.

BUT, if I were to propose a compromise, the simplest and fastest thing to do is to simply bring back officers' sidearms.  Back in the day, a handgun (and before it, a sword), had both a practical and decorative function.  It was a mark of status/authority, a component of the uniform, and also, of course, a practical weapon.

A relatively easy thing would be to simply make it part of the uniform again.  You'd need some standards to be written, of course.  Say, it has to be capable of firing the current service ammo, you need a holster of a certain quality and construction, only certain belts and other equipment are acceptable, and so on.  And it would make sense that you'd need to qualify with your actual handgun, if not take a specific training course.  The list goes on.  this is only "relatively easy," in actuality it would still be a nightmare of bureaucracy.

But by tying it to the uniform, you solve a number of problems.  Who buys it, how it's worn, when you're allowed to wear it, etc.

Much easier than linking it to watchstanding status or anything job-related.

This making it part of the uniform is not a bad idea.

Selling the idea could include the notion that for command, it opens up a huge array of possibilities for exacting harsh discipline on them. They will love that part of it.

New ways to fuck with people are always welcome by an O-6 and up.

Also, and I hate to be a Debbie Downer on this one, but if you want to arm military personnel on the regular, you've got to actually solve the suicide problem first.

I don't mean have a bunch of "training" and talk circles around the problem while never actually doing anything.

I mean actually look at the causes of depression and suicide and make service-wide changes to how we treat our people.

Also, when it comes to "that guy," you've got to start actually kicking them out instead of just letting them lounge around thinking up new and inventive ways to fuck shit up.  You know what I'm talking about.  The Private Mannings of the world.  

Probably change a few other things, too, while we're at it...

Yep but..  I doubt something serious will be done.

Everything he stated regarding the Saudi attitude is correct and spot on.

The terrorist had been in the US since 2017...curious as to when he acquired the firearm.  Andddd, possibly embraced radical idealogy years prior based on social media accounts that apparently weren't discovered.

Write it on Ivanka's tits in Sharpie?

Maintaining the monarchy is more important to US policy than the servicemen lost. You can be angry at this truth but it is not going to change as the only thing that can replace it is far worse. There may be a pause and the Saudis will claim there will be additional screening measures but I cannot see the US no longer accepting Saudis for training.

Holy fucking shit . What a shit show .

There's no such thing as a "radical ideology."

This guy didn't believe or do one single thing that wasn't commanded of him in recognized doctrine according to the koran, surah, and hadiths.

What I have a hard time reconciling, is that one of the victims has an obviously muslim name. I acknowledge it doesn't mean that's what he was.

I have one issue and that is the fact that he didn't mention the two Enlisted students who were killed.

Why?

Muslims do serve in the US military.

I'm very aware of that, as stated one of the victims here was a US Airman from St. Petersburg FL :

Airman Mohammed Hathaim, student, Naval Aviation Schools Command, 19, from St. Petersburg, Florida

I'd expect that someone with the shooter's motivations would not deliberately target another muslim.

It's just not typical.

RIP to the three lives lost.

Back when I was standing Corporal of the Guard at my radar unit at Cherry Point I had a .45 with two extra loaded mags (Condition 0, unfortunately). Also had a pump shotgun with three rounds. And before I started my guard rotation I reported to the pistol range to fam fire both. I wonder what it's like these 40 years later??

How so?

They kill each other all the time.  Allah will sort 'em out.

Because he was American, that perhaps made him the enemy regardless of his beliefs.