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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:08:21 AM EDT
Interesting video about the "war" and why Putin will win.
It is only 7 minutes long. Do you think he is right.  ‘Naïve’ to think Russia will lose war, says Dr Jordan Peterson |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:12:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win?
ETA: I’ve watched the video Peterson sees a Russian victory as a withdrawal from Ukraine due to the damage already done to infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine. I’m not sure I agree with that. My bet is Ukraine is rebuilt Marshal plan style with Western (taxpayer) money. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:15:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win? At this rate it could be the US suffering an econimic collapse in part to fundinf 30 years of proxy wars... |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:20:54 AM EDT
[#3]
I always get my tactical information from E-celebs.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:22:39 AM EDT
[#4]
SureX Russia can win but it all depends on whether the west folds under Nuke/energy blackmail.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:22:51 AM EDT
[#5]
That's gonna hurt some Ukraine garglers feelings. But it is the truth. Fuck Russia and fuck Ukraine.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:24:39 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's gonna hurt some Ukraine garglers feelings. But it is the truth. Fuck Russia and fuck Ukraine. It is as foolish to say fuck them both as it is to cheer for either side. There are no friends in international relationships only interests. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:25:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win? ETA: I’ve watched the video Peterson sees a Russian victory as a withdrawal from Ukraine due to the damage already done to infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine. I’m not sure I agree with that. My bet is Ukraine is rebuilt Marshal plan style with Western (taxpayer) money. A Russian win condition is the same we had in Iraq and Afghanistan being declared wins or mission accomplished lol. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:26:25 AM EDT
[#8]
It seems that Putin doesnt give a fuck.
If half of Russia's losses are true its clear he wants this at whatever the cost. He is risking his legacy, his country, the whole bag of marbles on this war. Does anyone have true intel on what the majority of Russians feel about the war besides all the propaganda I see (from both sides). Once the ATGM's and other shit is burned thru then what? I mean what more can we do without boots on the ground or planes in the air. Its a soverign nation fighting another soverign nation to which we have no formal treaty to protect. He has Europe by the LP balls and winter isn't far away. Who will blink first? |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:28:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is as foolish to say fuck them both as it is to cheer for either side. There are no friends in international relationships only interests. Then, let's go Russia, because I like the old world order where America is a free and sovereign nation more than the New World Order where we are controlled by globalists. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:34:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Peterson seems a little out of his element when discussing the war. If he defines Russia winning as leaving a smoking ruin behind and the US spending a trillion to rebuild, then maybe, but that seems more like a draw. Tens of thousands dead and economic ruin on both sides doesn’t seem to be a win.
I think he is talking about how Putin will rationalize it as a win even though it will be a Pyrrhic victory. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:37:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win? ETA: I’ve watched the video Peterson sees a Russian victory as a withdrawal from Ukraine due to the damage already done to infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine. I’m not sure I agree with that. My bet is Ukraine is rebuilt Marshal plan style with Western (taxpayer) money. Lol, so Russia is enduring tremendous losses and surrenedering massive amounts of weapon intelligence to NATO, so it can "damage" infrastructure in Eastern Ukraine?  Sure, okay doc |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:39:44 AM EDT
[#12]
All the numbers are on Russia's side.
As remarkable as Ukraine's resistance has been, they are a long, long way from finished. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:39:46 AM EDT
[#13]
He's playing with semantics. Most would think that Ukraine pushing Russia back to its borders would be "winning", even though the collateral damage to Ukraine and the west is significant. Nobody says that the Allies didn't win WWII because there was massive rebuilding to do after defeating the Axis.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:40:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems that Putin doesnt give a fuck. If half of Russia's losses are true its clear he wants this at whatever the cost. He is risking his legacy, his country, the whole bag of marbles on this war. Does anyone have true intel on what the majority of Russians feel about the war besides all the propaganda I see (from both sides). Once the ATGM's and other shit is burned thru then what? I mean what more can we do without boots on the ground or planes in the air. Its a soverign nation fighting another soverign nation to which we have no formal treaty to protect. He has Europe by the LP balls and winter isn't far away. Who will blink first? We will send multiples of Russias entire military budget if we have to. Ever more modern and numerous weapons. All the Intel they can use. All the resources we can muster, until Russia grinds itself to dust. That's the plan. Pooty doesn't have a lot of options left. None of them good, some of them really bad. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:41:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win? ETA: I’ve watched the video Peterson sees a Russian victory as a withdrawal from Ukraine due to the damage already done to infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine. I’m not sure I agree with that. My bet is Ukraine is rebuilt Marshal plan style with Western (taxpayer) money. And rebuilt using the 1/4 trillion in frozen Russian assets. All while Russia has suffered a massive loss of young men due to both war casualties and those fleeing conscription, plus crippled their own manufacturing, and likely to continue to be squeezed by sanctions for a long time to come. That economic hangover will accelerate the brain drain as talented workers flee the country for better prospects elsewhere. Nope, Peterson's retreat scenario is not a victory for Russia - anything but. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:43:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Peterson seems a little out of his element when discussing the war. If he defines Russia winning as leaving a smoking ruin behind and the US spending a trillion to rebuild, then maybe, but that seems more like a draw. Tens of thousands dead and economic ruin on both sides doesn't seem to be a win. I think he is talking about how Putin will rationalize it as a win even though it will be a Pyrrhic victory. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:44:29 AM EDT
[#17]
When I want information about geopolitics and military conflict, I always ask psychology professors.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:44:55 AM EDT
[#18]
Russia will withdraw once Putin is dealt with by the Russians. Ukrainian will receive reparation from the Russian oil sales.
I think he is confusing the Putin’s will to fight with the Russia people’s will to fight. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:46:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Russian win condition is the same we had in Iraq and Afghanistan being declared wins or mission accomplished lol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win? ETA: I’ve watched the video Peterson sees a Russian victory as a withdrawal from Ukraine due to the damage already done to infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine. I’m not sure I agree with that. My bet is Ukraine is rebuilt Marshal plan style with Western (taxpayer) money. A Russian win condition is the same we had in Iraq and Afghanistan being declared wins or mission accomplished lol.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:47:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always get my tactical information from E-celebs. So you didnt watch the video? Because his opinion isnt really that Russia wins its more at what costs and what is the world really going to do about. I think its a pretty thought provoking video and honestly I think that Jordan Peterson has come to be a very real voice of reason in todays world. He isnt talking tactics, he is talking much bigger than that. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:48:19 AM EDT
[#21]
russia is getting their shit pushed in and Putin is a dead man walking. It is just matter of when not if.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:10:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you didnt watch the video? Because his opinion isnt really that Russia wins its more at what costs and what is the world really going to do about. I think its a pretty thought provoking video and honestly I think that Jordan Peterson has come to be a very real voice of reason in todays world. He isnt talking tactics, he is talking much bigger than that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I always get my tactical information from E-celebs. So you didnt watch the video? Because his opinion isnt really that Russia wins its more at what costs and what is the world really going to do about. I think its a pretty thought provoking video and honestly I think that Jordan Peterson has come to be a very real voice of reason in todays world. He isnt talking tactics, he is talking much bigger than that. I just watched it too and you are spot on. I'm not for Russia or Ukraine, I think we should stay our and let Europe worry about Europe. I think we look like pussies with Russia looking at out trans welcoming military and just the overall picture. We look weak and on the decline. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:16:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win? ETA: I’ve watched the video Peterson sees a Russian victory as a withdrawal from Ukraine due to the damage already done to infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine. I’m not sure I agree with that. My bet is Ukraine is rebuilt Marshal plan style with Western (taxpayer) money. Europe is, like us, broke and |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:16:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Russian win condition is the same we had in Iraq and Afghanistan being declared wins or mission accomplished lol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win? ETA: I’ve watched the video Peterson sees a Russian victory as a withdrawal from Ukraine due to the damage already done to infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine. I’m not sure I agree with that. My bet is Ukraine is rebuilt Marshal plan style with Western (taxpayer) money. A Russian win condition is the same we had in Iraq and Afghanistan being declared wins or mission accomplished lol. Then there’s zero chance. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:18:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fix is in. We aren't going to let Russia win...or maybe even survive. It doesn't matter what Russia does, they are effectively fighting the US now. We will send multiples of Russias entire military budget if we have to. Ever more modern and numerous weapons. All the Intel they can use. All the resources we can muster, until Russia grinds itself to dust. That's the plan. Pooty doesn't have a lot of options left. None of them good, some of them really bad. ‘Fight’ and ‘let’ aren’t words seen in the same sentence often. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:23:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I want information about geopolitics and military conflict, I always ask psychology professors. I watched that interview and wondered if he was ever punched in the face. He came across as a smug academic, with no real expertise in the topic at hand. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:29:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Factually he isn't wrong I suppose. If Putin can sell to Russians that they smashed Ukraine and that is an acceptable condition for withdrawal he might get away with it. Compared to some of the doozies the US population has lapped up over the years I guess it's a possibility for sure.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:30:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Russian shills gonna shill for Russia.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:32:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched that interview and wondered if he was ever punched in the face. He came across as a smug academic, with no real expertise in the topic at hand. You sound like a guy who thinks wars are won on the battlefield. That hasn't happened in 75 years. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:34:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian shills gonna shill for Russia. Lol, I find it refreshingly realistic and down to earth. Didn’t sound like NPC Ukraine propaganda or Russia Stronk but also Victim Propaganda |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:34:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian shills gonna shill for Russia. Some people in Japan still think they were a victim of WW2. Not that far off to believe that Russia can retreat and declare themselves a winner. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:42:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Yeah, its not that Russia won't be defeated.
It is at what cost will Russia be defeated. When will Putin accept defeat? It seems that the world is going to experience some famine and bitter cold before that happens. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:43:34 AM EDT
[#33]
I think the title misrepresents what Dr. P said. He said that U cannot "win" because the country is already destroyed. If the war stopped now, it would be the very definition of a pyrrhic victory. I think he is right about what he said. I said in another post that I thought Putin would use tac nukes, sparingly, and that we would do nothing. If the land is uninhabitable, it would not be useful as an invasion path. I'm not saying that is factual, just that this sort of thinking would justify the use of nukes and allow Putin to declare victory and leave.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:25:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 'Fight' and 'let' aren't words seen in the same sentence often. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:26:48 AM EDT
[#35]
What the hell does Peterson know about war?
Russia has lost wars before. Hell, Russia has lost wars against countries smaller than Ukraine with less support than Ukraine has. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:30:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched that interview and wondered if he was ever punched in the face. He came across as a smug academic, with no real expertise in the topic at hand. He's better than you, and he knows it. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:31:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just watched it too and you are spot on. I'm not for Russia or Ukraine, I think we should stay our and let Europe worry about Europe. I think we look like pussies with Russia looking at out trans welcoming military and just the overall picture. We look weak and on the decline. I'd rather take a couple of purple haired karens than be Russia right now. Fun fact: more than 1 in 3 Russian men are alcoholics, the highest rate in the world. You can easily find mobilization videos in which Russian conscripts can't line up correctly because most of them are drunk. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:34:05 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just watched it too and you are spot on. I'm not for Russia or Ukraine, I think we should stay our and let Europe worry about Europe. I think we look like pussies with Russia looking at out trans welcoming military and just the overall picture. We look weak and on the decline. How's that Russian military doing these days? 
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:59:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's gonna hurt some Ukraine garglers feelings. But it is the truth. Fuck Russia and fuck Ukraine. I don't want to lose a single American life in battle due to these sh!tholes... |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:02:36 AM EDT
[#40]
He then comments on how Russia could try to re-define a pullout as a win. *wanking motion*
He seems a little lost on the topic, frankly. "Putin is just a normal person like us, he's not Hitler" followed by "Everyone has a little Hitler in them". Typical hollow babble from JP. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:03:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is kinda where I'm at. I don't want to lose a single American life in battle due to these sh!tholes... Sad to see people like you not give a shit when a free people is fighting for its life against a invader with dreams of a second USSR/Russian Empire. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:05:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I want information about geopolitics and military conflict, I always ask pop psychology professors. ftfy |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:07:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, so Russia is enduring tremendous losses and surrenedering massive amounts of weapon intelligence to NATO, so it can "damage" infrastructure in Eastern Ukraine? Sure, okay doc Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Win? What is the victory condition for a Russian win? ETA: I’ve watched the video Peterson sees a Russian victory as a withdrawal from Ukraine due to the damage already done to infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine. I’m not sure I agree with that. My bet is Ukraine is rebuilt Marshal plan style with Western (taxpayer) money. Lol, so Russia is enduring tremendous losses and surrenedering massive amounts of weapon intelligence to NATO, so it can "damage" infrastructure in Eastern Ukraine? Sure, okay doc Why not?! We spent 20 years in Afghanistan spending billions on killing sand people for profit. We should assume that Russians are smarter than that? Logic and war are entirely incompatible. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:11:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sad to see people like you not give a shit when a free people is fighting for its life against a invader with dreams of a second USSR/Russian Empire. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is kinda where I'm at. I don't want to lose a single American life in battle due to these sh!tholes... Sad to see people like you not give a shit when a free people is fighting for its life against a invader with dreams of a second USSR/Russian Empire. By all means apply today: Put your money where your mouth is |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:17:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Defense has to be 100% effective. Offense only needs to succeed once in a myriad of attempts.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:25:14 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You sound like a guy who thinks wars are won on the battlefield. That hasn't happened in 75 years. Maybe I know a little more about it than you realize. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:26:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fix is in. We aren't going to let Russia win...or maybe even survive. It doesn't matter what Russia does, they are effectively fighting the US now. We will send multiples of Russias entire military budget if we have to. Ever more modern and numerous weapons. All the Intel they can use. All the resources we can muster, until Russia grinds itself to dust. That's the plan. Pooty doesn't have a lot of options left. None of them good, some of them really bad. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It seems that Putin doesnt give a fuck. If half of Russia's losses are true its clear he wants this at whatever the cost. He is risking his legacy, his country, the whole bag of marbles on this war. Does anyone have true intel on what the majority of Russians feel about the war besides all the propaganda I see (from both sides). Once the ATGM's and other shit is burned thru then what? I mean what more can we do without boots on the ground or planes in the air. Its a soverign nation fighting another soverign nation to which we have no formal treaty to protect. He has Europe by the LP balls and winter isn't far away. Who will blink first? We will send multiples of Russias entire military budget if we have to. Ever more modern and numerous weapons. All the Intel they can use. All the resources we can muster, until Russia grinds itself to dust. That's the plan. Pooty doesn't have a lot of options left. None of them good, some of them really bad. Maybe, in retrospect, Russia invading its neighbor was a bad idea, then? The world at large doesn’t really like expansionism. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:32:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the title misrepresents what Dr. P said. He said that U cannot "win" because the country is already destroyed. If the war stopped now, it would be the very definition of a pyrrhic victory. I think he is right about what he said. I said in another post that I thought Putin would use tac nukes, sparingly, and that we would do nothing. If the land is uninhabitable, it would not be useful as an invasion path. I'm not saying that is factual, just that this sort of thinking would justify the use of nukes and allow Putin to declare victory and leave. With Respectful disagreement, Putin will not use tactical nukes because that will completely isolate Russia to become "Western North Korea". If Western Nations ban all trade with Russian and nations that trade with Russia (like India, China, African & others) those nations may have to seriously re-evaluate to whom they would rather have market access. Use of a tactical nuke doesn't render the land an irradiated wasteland blocking entry or crossing it for centuries (that's the whole point of a tactical nuke is to be able to use it as a battlefield level weapon) The Big Question is going to be "What is The Russian Peoples appetite for War & the Losses? Vs. Putins level of being willing to fight to the last soldier (as long as it's not himself) And how long Ukraine can muster support for weapons to continue the fight. I think the Ukrainians will eventually be pressured to settle the war (As much as they want to take back Crimea I see that as a VERY unlikely outcome) regaining their old borders, reparations to rebuild from Russian Assets and joining the E.U. & NATO. As for Putin's hard line to stop the expansion of NATO. Welcome to our newest NATO Partners Sweden & Finland!!! Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:36:41 AM EDT
[#49]
I know that Russia does not have the infrastructure to maintain the naval vessels they have, mush less to replace combat losses. I strongly suspect the situation is no better with regards to combat aircraft or armored vehicles. In addition, demographics do not look good for the Russian polulace to raise a large number of military aged men, and I don't see the national support for that either.
Stick a fork in them - they are done. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:37:55 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I want information about geopolitics and military conflict, I always ask psychology professors. I thought we were talking about divorce
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