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Posted: 12/8/2005 7:09:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Words have consequences.
Just like if you scream FIRE in a movie theater and people die in the stampede... Don't state you have a bomb, don't get shot. Pretty simple concept. I think I'd have pulled the trigger on a someone claiming to have a bomb. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 7:12:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Okay. So this dumbass say she has a bomb right? So the FAM exposes himself and blows his cover to stop him. Turns out the guy doesn't have shit.
So what happens then?  Everyone on the plane knows who the FAM is now. Does he just get back on the plane? What if there is a sleeper on board...now knowing who the FAM is. Now the FAM has lost the advantage of surprise. Are we going to have to start putting two FAM on every flight? Or maybe after something happens, they can just put a new "passenger" on board and no one will think anything of it. This is getting out of hand. Give the Captains and FOs a gun. Train them just like the FAMs are trained.  BTW: The FAM did what he had to do. I hope he has no regrets because there is no reason to have any. I would have done the same...except if possible...the guy wouldn't have made it off the plane. 
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Posted: 12/8/2005 7:13:44 AM EDT
[#3]
From my understanding he "looked" like one of the suicide bombers, the police released a lot of false information after the shooting to cover their tracks and now and investigation is going on. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 7:23:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Said he had a bomb.
Refuse to stop and took off running. Stopped and reached in bag. {would have fired here. Fear that he would have produced weapon or detonated device.} Good shoot in a bad situation. wganz ¶ |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 7:39:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Actually this reminds me of a story my grandfather told me from his time on the Newark bomb squad in the 60's.. Passenger shows up at the check-in with a cake box all tied up and looking pretty. Apparently he was bringing a birthday cake with him wherever he was going. The girl behind the counter asked what was in the box. He said, "Whaddaya think? It's a bomb, duh." or something to that effect.
Well, they piled on that dumbass, and called the bomb squad. I've got a pic from a newspaper of my grandfather and his partner listening to the cake box with a stethoscope (no protective suit mind you, just two guys kneeling in close with stethoscope, and large crowd behind them). They took the guy off to jail, and Grampa and partner each got to bring home half of a really good cake. My mother still remembers eating it. Aah, good times 
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Posted: 12/8/2005 7:50:25 AM EDT
[#6]
I have more than one mag, babe!  Seriously though...what gets me is that this family will sue...WTH...if there is a pay-out verdict, I tell you it's the end: we will be seen as weak AND our Marshalls will second guess themselves in the future. And you know what? I don't want them to do that. If there is an obvious threat (crazy guy screaming he has a bomb running willy nilly is pretty obvious) then I want them to kill the bastard. Days like 9/11 should never be repeated. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 8:00:36 AM EDT
[#7]
whoever voted "nope", please explain.
thanks. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 8:25:51 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 12/8/2005 8:26:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Fixed it...dammit people...we're at WAR with terrorists!!! Terrorists who want us dead. Not just politicos and military...but ALL of US 
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Posted: 12/8/2005 8:27:27 AM EDT
[#10]
I've seen hundred's people on airline's that I wished the Marshall's would've shot.
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Posted: 12/8/2005 8:30:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Blame the terrorist for making the world such a place that people who yell "bomb!" have to be shot.
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Posted: 12/8/2005 8:34:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Yep, my thoughts exactly. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:04:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Shoot.
This is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Imagine if he'd had a bomb. The FAM would be dragged over the coals. HE DID HIS JOB!! End of story. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:12:26 AM EDT
[#14]
After reading more about it, I looks like the marshalls did their job. Things happen fast and they need to react. If he followed the rules he wouldnt have been shot. This is very sad, but shit happens. The world isnt perfect
 What do you guys think about the air marshalls? Didnt know they were on that many planes. They did their job here and its good to know they are out there. Although I dont think any will ever be able to take over a plane again in the U.S. without resistance from passengers. Someone tries to take over a plane when im on it, ill but the first one out of my seat and tackle that motherfucker. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:20:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Heck no. I would have waited until I heard the boom to make sure that shooting was justified.
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:23:00 AM EDT
[#16]
YES
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:23:40 AM EDT
[#17]
[Gaylord Focker] Bomb Bomb ba Bomb, Bomb Bomb ba Bomb,[/Gay Focker]...........[Air Marshal]
 DRT(dead right there)[/Air Marshal].......... 
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:27:31 AM EDT
[#18]
If the question is: would I have shot him? the answer is yes
If it is how many times?the answer is : failure drill x 2  REMEMBER: yesterday you did not have the info you have today,but even then, how were the marshalls to know the wife screaming "he is/was a "NUT" was not a diversionary tactic by a team of terrorist to gain a 2 second advantage? 
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:32:29 AM EDT
[#19]
You can never be too
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:32:39 AM EDT
[#20]
If the guy really did have a bomb, and the AM did nothing.......the media would be blaming the AM for not shooting the guy........after the everyone was dead and the plane was in pieces.
He did the right thing. It was his job to protect all of the passengers........he did. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:44:28 AM EDT
[#21]
PlaymoreMinds is absolutely correct. They are after all of us. His wife has to take some blame for not getting him to take his meds. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 9:48:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Blame the people who yell bomb. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 10:01:49 AM EDT
[#23]
If he did have a bomb, then people would be asking "Where was the Air Marshal?"
Based on what the reports said, the Marshal did the right thing. I've flown many times, and I'm sure the others out there have flown many more. Did you ever say you had a bomb? I never did. What was the Air marshal supposed to do, give the guy ice cream? The idea that the guy was mentally ill is completely irrelevant. A mentally ill person can injure or kill you. If someone says he's off his medication, then "OK, I'll let him blow me up or cut my head off." Nonsense. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 10:54:47 AM EDT
[#24]
you expect me to just "let him go" after he's claimed to have a bomb, just because he's off his meds?
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Posted: 12/8/2005 10:53:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Good point. I hope the Air Marshals have at least four. |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 11:10:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Yep. The bullet would go right through the pink cloud but no reporter could say I shot too soon . Oops... no witnesses or evidence left to verify that I had done it correctly. Got to think of another plan  .
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Posted: 12/8/2005 11:11:30 PM EDT
[#27]
He should have stayed home that day. Or at least stayed on his medications.
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Posted: 12/8/2005 11:34:06 PM EDT
[#28]
[FAM] We've got some good news, and some bad news Ma'am........the good news is your husband isn't going to need to take his medication anymore.........[/FAM]
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Posted: 12/8/2005 11:34:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Suspect runs down the isle with his backpack in front of his chest - screaming he has a bomb -
Said to the suspect: "FEDERAL MARSHAL's - GET ON THE GROUND! - GET ON THE GROUND! - SHOW ME YOUR HANDS! - DO IT NOW!!!" Suspect reaches into his bag: My response: BANG - BANG - BANG End of story - Sad event , especially since the suspect was just off his meds; But you can't take a chance in our post 9/11 world. The positive news: These guys KNOW how to shoot!! |
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Posted: 12/8/2005 11:47:39 PM EDT
[#30]
I wonder who the marshall was.. A buddy of mine I worked with in the Federal system was hired with the AMs in 2002.. Would be a small world.. hope he's ok.
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Posted: 12/9/2005 3:04:31 AM EDT
[#31]
THIS is why this is and was a stupid topic to post at the time it was posted.
Air Marshals lied about slain Latino passenger saying "I have a bomb" It now appears that Air Marshals lied about a mentally ill Latino passenger saying "I have a bomb" just before they shot him at the Miami International Airport yesterday. The fact is Air Marshals over-reacted when dealing with a Middle Eastern looking passenger who was experiencing a "fear of flying" panic attack. The victim, Mr. Rigoberto Alpizar, according to his accompanying wife, is a bi-polar patient who ran out of his medications during their trip. While waiting for the airplane to take off on the next leg of the American Airline flight, Mr. Alpizar panicked and wanted to get off the airplane. He started to run down the isle towards the door when two Air Marshals confronted him. Instead of subduing him physically, they went for their guns and shot him five or six times. In order to justify the shooting, the Air Marshals appear to have lied about Mr. Alpizar saying that he had a bomb. No passenger witnesses have come forward saying that they heard Mr. Alpizar yell "I have a bomb". Witnesses interviewed after the shooting described instead how Alpizar's wife tried to tell fellow passengers and Air Marshals that her husband suffered from bi-polar disorder. "I did hear the lady say her husband was bipolar and had not had his medication," said Mary Gardner, a passenger. Accounts by other passengers suggest that Alpizar began behaving strangely before he was challenged by the Air Marshals. "He didn't look stable," said fellow passenger John McAlhany. Mr. McAlhany adds, "They put a gun to the back of my head and said: 'Put your hands on the seat'. That was more scary than anything else," passenger John McAlhany said. "'I don't know if they shot an innocent man or not. I don't think he was armed or had a bomb. I think he had a mental illness," Mr. McAlhany added. "I don't think they really had to shoot him," Mr. McAlhany concluded. ANYONE, that actually casted a vote in this topic is a dumbass, IMO, as one should never pass judgement based on media reports ATLEAST until the smoke has cleared. Mike |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 4:11:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance...............and Proper Planning means you might not get shot for being a psycho asshole! |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 4:13:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Well fuck me If this is right I would think charges are in order. 
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Posted: 12/9/2005 4:42:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Appears = Fact??? When the HELL did THAT happen???
Appears again...And maybe they have not come forward to THIS reporter...anyone else want to post what another reporter said happened...you know..someone ELSE who WASN'T there???
Well gee...next time Atta's soldiers try to take over a jumbo jet, they know all they gotta do is get a nice lady to say they are off their meds...nice going.
Behaving strangely + not looking stable + airplane = getting shot Welcome to the world of flying post 9/11. Think??? THINK??? You think he was a nice guy...that's great. I bet Atta's passengers thought the same thing...You think Atta and his followers Were NOT mentally unstable??? Yah...whatever! Marchalls are paid to REACT and DIFFUSE. They did their job.
Really??? That's rich. Is this NOT a media report??? Yeah, it's one that tells another story...but what makes you think THIS media report is any more reliable??? Please... I may be a "dumbass" by your standards, but your standards of measure don't measure up! |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 4:44:10 AM EDT
[#35]
YES!!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 12/9/2005 4:47:55 AM EDT
[#36]
I have no way on knowing what the fuck happened as I wasn't there, how many of you were there?
Are the comments I posted above going to turn out to be the true facts, I don't know that either. Has the "smoke cleared" on this subject, again how are we supposed to know. I believe my original point has been made, nuff said. Mike E.T.A. - why anyone whose bi-polar, nuts or scared to death of flying; who would arrange a vacation involving plane travel, insufficient proper medication or even get on the plane in the condition noted above without a serious dose of valuim is beyond my comprehension, shit happens..... I guess
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Posted: 12/9/2005 4:52:43 AM EDT
[#37]
No question... "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!!" "Stop or I'll...well I'll think about shooting but give me a second to consider whether you are just playing a joke or might really be ready to blow this plane to hell." Give me a break.
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Posted: 12/9/2005 4:56:07 AM EDT
[#38]
I find this interesting:
When the perpetrator is a minority,the media intentionally omits the race or ethnic origin;but when he is the victim,that comes out as soon as they find out. SENSATIONALISM? STIRRING the SHEEPLE POT? yeah,for those few who do not know it,I am hispanic/latino (don't really know the difference between the two terms),so please,don't tell me I am biased/racist. 
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Posted: 12/9/2005 5:03:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Guy says he has a bomb. Simple, it's headshot time. Works for the Israelis, works for me.
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Posted: 12/9/2005 5:06:46 AM EDT
[#40]
Mike, I think you missed MY point. And that is that you posted we were all dumbasses for believing initial media reports and you made that assertation based on an even more un-decisive media report.  Additionally, to make it as simple as possible: Flying post 9/11 is the way it is: fool me once, shame on you...fool me TWICE shame on ME!!!! I'd rather have the marshalls err on the side of caution...I don't care WHAT color a person is...act like an unstable person on a plane and you die . |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 5:13:16 AM EDT
[#41]
with my extensive training in shoot-to-incapacitate, i would have just shot him in the leg...... you know, just to wound him so we could have asked him where the bomb was and what the disarming codes were.
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Posted: 12/9/2005 5:31:09 AM EDT
[#42]
If he really yelled that he had a bomb, sure, shoot him.
Unfortunately, what we saw after the British shooting of that Brazilian electrician, innocently walking (not running away and jumping the turnstile) from a multiunit apartment building (not specifically a terrorist's apartment) to the train in light clothing (not a heavy padded jacket), was that in the immediate aftermath, the police often lie about what actually happened to cover their asses. I'm going to give it a few days to find out whether this mentally-ill guy was really screaming that he had a bomb, or if that was just a convenient line for the air marshalls to tell the reporters so that they wouldn't be keelhauled for a bad shoot. |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 6:18:39 AM EDT
[#43]
Title of this thread: would you have shot the plane bomber/lunatic (based on current info)? |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 6:21:01 AM EDT
[#44]
I see... Can't shoot a potential suicide bomber who won't stop unless he's a mentally stable potential suicide bomber who won't stop? |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 6:36:09 AM EDT
[#45]
Just got to page 4 and saw the post about the report that the AM's had lied about the guy's bomb threat. Go figure! [roll]
Hell, man, we're ALL "potential suicide bombers". Remember the old joke? You have a penis, so hey, you're a "potential rapist". And women are all "potential prostitutes". Right? About eight years ago, some stewardess thought I was "really angry" for no apparent reason -- I never said or did anything hostile, the ONLY thing I did was get up and walk down the aisle to the lavatory, grimacing because my bladder was about to explode (the "fasten seat belts" sign had been on for two hours). Nowadays the AM would probably have put five in my head and claimed I had screamed that I had a bomb up my ass. Good shoot, eh? |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 6:41:30 AM EDT
[#46]
No. Essentially everything that the British police initially claimed had happened was a lie. The electrician was not wearing bulky out-of-season clothing, nor was he wearing a harness or toolbelt with protruding wires. The electrician had come out of an apartment building in which one apartment of at least nine was tied to the investigation. There was no way of knowing whether he had come out of that one apartment or one of the other eight. The electrician walked normally to the station, and once there, he didn't run away, nor did he jump the turnstile. He used a fare card. The sum total of what happened was that he walked into the subway, and then some cop ran up and shot him repeatedly in the head without warning. |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 6:42:29 AM EDT
[#47]
 No, but you could have pee'd on him. I bet you would have at least stopped for a moment if he had a gun pointed at you.
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Posted: 12/9/2005 7:12:50 AM EDT
[#48]
!!!!. Good point. Not only would I have stopped, only a few moments later I wouldn't have needed to go to the bathroom any more. Although I hope they would have supplied towels and maybe a change of pants. I also should withdraw my comment about the AMs "lying" -- after all, the guy might have said it in the jetway, out of hearing of the other passengers. It's a critical piece of information, though, and that's what my shoot/no-shoot decision would have been made upon. While I understand the point about voting based on what we know right now, there are conflicting reports on what I consider the most critical point. I haven't voted in the poll. |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 8:56:56 AM EDT
[#49]
I certainly was not there and hate to 'second guess' the Air Marshals that were, however, I am more and more getting the feeling that they may well have screwed-up and over-reacted.
Flame away if you will, however, this thing is starting to smell dirtier and dirtier. |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 12:17:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Hell, yeah! What did he do?
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