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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:20:07 PM EDT
[#1]
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No, it's a surfactant. You don't wash bacteria away with antibiotics, you kill them. And now all the old standbys don't work so well anymore, because of dumbshits who insisted on antibiotics for a cold, antibiotic soap, not finishing a complete course, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with.... soap by nature is anti-bacterial...   No, it's a surfactant. You don't wash bacteria away with antibiotics, you kill them. And now all the old standbys don't work so well anymore, because of dumbshits who insisted on antibiotics for a cold, antibiotic soap, not finishing a complete course, etc. Plus all that excessive house cleaning and not exposing kids to germs is responsible for all this asthma and peanut allergies and like. You can only cheat Darwin for so long. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:22:21 PM EDT
[#2]
I think antis are overused, and there will be a time when we cannot use what we have traditionally used.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:24:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Something from the local liberal rag, but still interesting.
PPMOs "Bruce Geller of the OSU College of science led a collaborative study which successfully used new antibacterial agents called PPMOs (peptide-conjugated phosphorodiamidate morpholino oligomer), synthetic analogs of DNA or RNA, to specifically target the genetic make-up of bacteria. PPMOs effectively inhibit the expression of certain essential bacterial genes. “The mechanism that PPMOs use to kill bacteria is revolutionary,” Geller said, and the study results seem to support this assertion. The analogs showed themselves to be more effective and precise than traditional antibiotics, and also appear to be effective on antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains." |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:24:54 PM EDT
[#4]
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Antibiotics were not in mainstream use till about the 40's. It took no time at all for resistance to kick in. Every new antibiotic sooner or later will become useless for some strains of bacteria. I make the calls to the floors when there is a resistant organism. I talk to the infectious disease doctors when they are trying to find something to work. I'm the one that sets up the added sensitivities to these orgs, I get to see the resistance in action. The infection control docs take this shit seriously. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed. No, not really. ... the late 1800's as far as treatability of "minor" infection goes. Correct. Antibiotics alleviated much suffering, and enabled lots of unhygienic behavior. If antibiotic-immune bugs become common, we're in a world of hurt, the likes of which few people alive can remember. Debilitating afflictions of young and old will be common. Loss of children and wives related to child birth will be common again. Today's generation doesn't know what human suffering looks like. I make the calls to the floors when there is a resistant organism. I talk to the infectious disease doctors when they are trying to find something to work. I'm the one that sets up the added sensitivities to these orgs, I get to see the resistance in action. The infection control docs take this shit seriously. Ah just read more of the thread. Sounds like you work in a lab. Your responses sounds very much like the stuff our micro professor is going over right now. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:25:46 PM EDT
[#5]
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Plus all that excessive house cleaning and not exposing kids to germs is responsible for all this asthma and peanut allergies and like. You can only cheat Darwin for so long. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with.... soap by nature is anti-bacterial... No, it's a surfactant. You don't wash bacteria away with antibiotics, you kill them. And now all the old standbys don't work so well anymore, because of dumbshits who insisted on antibiotics for a cold, antibiotic soap, not finishing a complete course, etc. Plus all that excessive house cleaning and not exposing kids to germs is responsible for all this asthma and peanut allergies and like. You can only cheat Darwin for so long. Yeah, I let my kids get filthy & eat dirt if they want. They also get extra-rich milk and lots of high fat foods for brain development, etc. The soccer moms think I'm a bad dad, their pediatrician congratulates me. But the over use & wrong use of antibiotics is really what got us here. When we decided to have "controlled substances", they should have been antibiotics, not narcotics. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:31:02 PM EDT
[#6]
It's sad how people think antibiotics are the solution to everything. My wife is one of them :/. I recently had a viral upper respiratory infection and she suggested antibiotics. I have an engineering degree, nothing medical, but I try to deal with any and all sicknesses without medicine. I hope that I'm on the right track thinking it improves my chances of being more resistant to bugs than everyone else who takes medicine with every sniffle.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:32:20 PM EDT
[#7]
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Something from the local liberal rag, but still interesting. PPMOs "Bruce Geller of the OSU College of science led a collaborative study which successfully used new antibacterial agents called PPMOs (peptide-conjugated phosphorodiamidate morpholino oligomer), synthetic analogs of DNA or RNA, to specifically target the genetic make-up of bacteria. PPMOs effectively inhibit the expression of certain essential bacterial genes. “The mechanism that PPMOs use to kill bacteria is revolutionary,” Geller said, and the study results seem to support this assertion. The analogs showed themselves to be more effective and precise than traditional antibiotics, and also appear to be effective on antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains." Yes it is very interesting, but I think anti-sense gene technology is at least >15 years down the road... |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:34:02 PM EDT
[#8]
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This isn't Chicken Little stuff, it's real. Think of it like warfare. If we don't kill ALL of the enemy with whatever we have in our toolbox, the remaining ones will develop countermeasures. And at the same time all our methods of warfare are public domain. And as antibiotics were/are used, we've left a lot of the enemy alive every time. Now a bunch of them are so battle-hardened & aware of our methods of attack, they are essentially un-killable; but this isn't an arms race we have the tools to keep fighting. We only have so many ways we can go, and all of them are becoming less & less effective. It doesn't matter how much money there is to be made, or how much is thrown at the problem. It's a serious problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'..... my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections This isn't Chicken Little stuff, it's real. Think of it like warfare. If we don't kill ALL of the enemy with whatever we have in our toolbox, the remaining ones will develop countermeasures. And at the same time all our methods of warfare are public domain. And as antibiotics were/are used, we've left a lot of the enemy alive every time. Now a bunch of them are so battle-hardened & aware of our methods of attack, they are essentially un-killable; but this isn't an arms race we have the tools to keep fighting. We only have so many ways we can go, and all of them are becoming less & less effective. It doesn't matter how much money there is to be made, or how much is thrown at the problem. It's a serious problem. This is a very good analogy. Right in line with what I'm learning in class right now. From what I understand many of these drugs / soaps / bacteria killing measures do not kill spores. So even if we manage to kill the enemy, if the bacteria is a spore former, it will leave the spores behind which can lead to further infection. The new bacteria is even stronger and stronger as time goes on and they multiply at exponential rates. For those not familiar, Anthrax for instance is a spore former. Anthrax is pretty famous for being some really bad shit. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:39:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Extended-spectrum beta-lactamases (ESBL) are enzymes that confer resistance to most beta-lactam antibiotics, including penicillins, cephalosporins, and the monobactam aztreonam. Infections with ESBL-producing organisms have been associated with poor outcomes.
Community and hospital-acquired ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae are prevalent worldwide [1]. Reliable identification of ESBL-producing organisms in clinical laboratories can be challenging, so their prevalence is likely underestimated. Carbapenems are the best antimicrobial agent for infections caused by such organisms. http://www.uptodate.com/contents/extended-spectrum-beta-lactamases |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:47:38 PM EDT
[#10]
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This is a very good analogy. Right in line with what I'm learning in class right now. From what I understand many of these drugs / soaps / bacteria killing measures do not kill spores. So even if we manage to kill the enemy, if the bacteria is a spore former, it will leave the spores behind which can lead to further infection. The new bacteria is even stronger and stronger as time goes on and they multiply at exponential rates. For those not familiar, Anthrax for instance is a spore former. Anthrax is pretty famous for being some really bad shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'..... my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections This isn't Chicken Little stuff, it's real. Think of it like warfare. If we don't kill ALL of the enemy with whatever we have in our toolbox, the remaining ones will develop countermeasures. And at the same time all our methods of warfare are public domain. And as antibiotics were/are used, we've left a lot of the enemy alive every time. Yes, but the strains are still sensitive to doxy, pen and cipro and a number of others. It remains more of a diagnostic challenge that a treatment challenge. Now a bunch of them are so battle-hardened & aware of our methods of attack, they are essentially un-killable; but this isn't an arms race we have the tools to keep fighting. We only have so many ways we can go, and all of them are becoming less & less effective. It doesn't matter how much money there is to be made, or how much is thrown at the problem. It's a serious problem. This is a very good analogy. Right in line with what I'm learning in class right now. From what I understand many of these drugs / soaps / bacteria killing measures do not kill spores. So even if we manage to kill the enemy, if the bacteria is a spore former, it will leave the spores behind which can lead to further infection. The new bacteria is even stronger and stronger as time goes on and they multiply at exponential rates. For those not familiar, Anthrax for instance is a spore former. Anthrax is pretty famous for being some really bad shit. Yes, but the strains are still sensitive to doxy, pen and cipro and a number of others. It remains more of a diagnostic challenge that a treatment challenge. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:50:17 PM EDT
[#11]
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The infection control docs take this shit seriously. As well they should. Americans have been able to ignore bacterial infections like they don't exist for our entire lifetimes. Unchecked infection is a third world problem. Americans have the expectation that they will be healthy, optimally functioning, and pain free for the majority of their lives. This is an unnatural position. A bubble of Grace that we've been privileged to live in. Antibiotics and quarantine have kept us healthy. Losing effective antibiotics is a paradigm shift that no one is ready for. Add to that the Kenyan's recent action that prevents us from 'discriminating' against the infirm, and we're about to be proper-F'd. It seems strangely intentional. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:55:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Antibacterials are getting better with new tech coming out all the time. I've seen it. Freaking amazing stuff. Also amazingly enough, .gov interference is stonewalling the production of the already developed tech.
Antibiotics are overused. We will run out of medicine and will end up with an infectious zone and a clean sterilized area. No idea what it looks likes, but it's things that nightmares are made of and Revelations is written on. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:56:03 PM EDT
[#13]
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Yes, but the strains are still sensitive to doxy, pen and cipro and a number of others. It remains more of a diagnostic challenge that a treatment challenge. For the time being. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:57:33 PM EDT
[#14]
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I understand completely... You may not have a 'bacterial sinus infection' if it takes repeated antibiotic treatments. There is a lot of research going on in the area of sinus infections caused by molds and the residual effects due to the 'micro' environment they exist in. You may want to check with a immunologist/allergist to get more info. I used to get multiple sinus infections every winter. Now I take a 24 hours antihistamine every night and hardly ever get sick. YMMV. Anyhow, back to the OP, two observations: 1. Antibiotics only work for people that still have an otherwise healthy immune system, as the population ages more people will become more unresponsive to AB therapies by default and that will make the stats look worse than they really are. 2. There are other antibiotics that work, they just either have side effects that are worrisome or perhaps the FDA just won't let us plebes have them. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 8:02:06 PM EDT
[#15]
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Phages are quite a ways off yet. When and if they reach market you may not be able to afford them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Bacteriophages are the next big treatment for bacterial infections? Phages are quite a ways off yet. When and if they reach market you may not be able to afford them. piratebay.com SCOTUS declared that fair use, right?  
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Posted: 10/25/2013 8:12:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Phage therapy.. We should have been dropping big money into it when the Soviets were doing so, and we sure as SHIT should be doing so now. Antibiotics are a lost cause because, at the end of the day, there are only a finite number of chemicals that:
1. Can be synthesized 2. Are cheap enough to be a useful drug 3. Don't kill humans 4. Effectively kill bacteria Let nature fight itself. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:03:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Yep, it takes us close to one year to create a successful antibiotic and bring it into widespread distribution.
It takes a bacteria less than 24 hours to replicate a mutation resistant to our antibiotic. New, antibiotic resistant bacteria and virus are discovered almost monthly now. The spread of known resistant organisms is clipping along very quickly. Consider all the places American's travel to and return from. Consider all the foreigners who travel to America. Simple antibiotics from America have an amazing impact against disease in under developed nations. They've not had as much exposure to antibiotics so they've not mutated as much and have less resistance to modern antibiotics. However, compliance with antibiotic therapy and the supplies of antibiotics are very poor which allows bacteria exposed to our modern antibiotics to mutate in a much smaller population ...tougher mutations. Eventually, the bacteria find their way into the larger populations through high risk patients who typically expose many people before they can be identified for treatment. By then, they're in a highly resistant state. America, at this point, still has one of the finest pharmaceutical industries on the planet. Pharmaceutical research in the developed world is mind boggling complex with the technologies available. But we still cannot do the research and testing necessary in the amount of time it takes bacteria and virus to develop resistance. It's simply a matter of time before something like smallpox or a plague virus sweeps through a third world basket case like Afghanistan or parts of Africa and makes it out into a developed nation. The bacteria will grow exponentially until they exhaust their growth medium. Bacterial Growth Lesson We're gonna lose some population sometime somewhere. May not be here, but its percolating along as sure as the sun's rising. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:15:41 PM EDT
[#18]
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Cipro is only bacteria-static. It's already useless in some infections. Lots of things can resist amoxicillin. The source of the infection is important for determining what antibiotic is needed. For instance, you shouldn't use daptomycin for a respiratory infection because that area of the body produces an antisurficant for your lungs which enables dapto useless. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So when is my stash of cipro and amoxicillin going to be totally useless?  The source of the infection is important for determining what antibiotic is needed. For instance, you shouldn't use daptomycin for a respiratory infection because that area of the body produces an antisurficant for your lungs which enables dapto useless. Also, you can take Cipro and have your achilles tendons blow out or other tendons come apart and wonder what happened. Turns out it doesn't just attack bacterial DNA, but cartilage-forming DNA in a segment of the population. Oops! |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:20:26 PM EDT
[#19]
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No, not really. Especially not available ones. The completely stupid over/improper use of antibiotics has us teetering on the edge of the late 1800's as far as treatability of "minor" infection goes. We fucked up, big. It isn't a matter of economics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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 Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there.... Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won? As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed. No, not really. Especially not available ones. The completely stupid over/improper use of antibiotics has us teetering on the edge of the late 1800's as far as treatability of "minor" infection goes. We fucked up, big. It isn't a matter of economics. Who said that it is new antibiotics that are the next silver bullet. You assumed that is the only area of research into dealing with things like MRSA or other bacterium. There are many different methods and I am only talking about various almost intelligible (at least to me) articles that cause my eyes to glaze over about the different methods of attack. Remember this is the next goose that lays diamonds, gold, silver, platinum, and beryllium, along with pissing light sweet crude oil. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:23:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Terrible thread to read as I've been hospitalized since Tuesday with an infection (diverticulitis)...
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:26:56 PM EDT
[#21]
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I have a question...in the beginning in the age of antibiotics many moons ago; do you think that we would be on better ground if we medically segregated people against their will in a locked facility, until their round of Antibiotics was finished? Seeing as the problem we have today with mutating bacteria--is that people are exposing the bacteria to the anti-biotics, then not finishing the pills---and helping them become more resistant, which can affect an entire population... Thoughts?  The antibiotics people use are a thimbleful in the ocean compared to those given to livestock such as pigs, cows, and chickens, especially in high-density habitations, which are also the perfect breeding ground for resistant bacteria. That is where the problem lies. That & the banning of disinfectants containing hexachlorophene on spurious fear of a (non-existent) carcinogenic character. This was also key to kick-starting the MRSA epidemic. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:29:00 PM EDT
[#22]
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Who said that it is new antibiotics that are the next silver bullet. You assumed that is the only area of research into dealing with things like MRSA or other bacterium. There are many different methods and I am only talking about various almost intelligible (at least to me) articles that cause my eyes to glaze over about the different methods of attack. Remember this is the next goose that lays diamonds, gold, silver, platinum, and beryllium, along with pissing light sweet crude oil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there.... Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won? As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed. No, not really. Especially not available ones. The completely stupid over/improper use of antibiotics has us teetering on the edge of the late 1800's as far as treatability of "minor" infection goes. We fucked up, big. It isn't a matter of economics. Who said that it is new antibiotics that are the next silver bullet. You assumed that is the only area of research into dealing with things like MRSA or other bacterium. There are many different methods and I am only talking about various almost intelligible (at least to me) articles that cause my eyes to glaze over about the different methods of attack. Remember this is the next goose that lays diamonds, gold, silver, platinum, and beryllium, along with pissing light sweet crude oil. Ok man. Go with what you know. 
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:31:42 PM EDT
[#23]
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The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with.... Anti-bacterial soap? Not so much .... "At one conference, Dr. Stuart Levy, a microbiologist at Tufts University, cites these studies to compare antibacterial action with antibiotic resistance: "Dousing everything we touch with antibacterial soaps and taking antibiotic medications at the first sign of a cold can upset the natural balance of microorganisms in and around us, leaving behind only the 'superbugs'."1 See Triclosan#Resistance_concerns It has since been shown that the laboratory method used by Dr. Levy was not effective in predicting bacterial resistance for biocides like triclosan.[5] At least seven peer-reviewed and published studies have been conducted demonstrating that triclosan is not significantly associated with bacterial resistance over the short term, including one study coauthored by Dr. Levy.[6]" de wiki. ... just another incidence of junk science - right along with ozone hole, global warming, DDT, mercury in fish, tris, alar, .... |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:32:20 PM EDT
[#24]
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Terrible thread to read as I've been hospitalized since Tuesday with an infection (diverticulitis)... just close the thread and keep repeating to yourself..."ignorance is bliss" 
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:33:37 PM EDT
[#25]
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No, it's a surfactant. You don't wash bacteria away with antibiotics, you kill them. And now all the old standbys don't work so well anymore, because of dumbshits who insisted on antibiotics for a cold, antibiotic soap, not finishing a complete course, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with.... soap by nature is anti-bacterial... No, it's a surfactant. You don't wash bacteria away with antibiotics, you kill them. And now all the old standbys don't work so well anymore, because of dumbshits who insisted on antibiotics for a cold, antibiotic soap, not finishing a complete course, etc. Antibacterial soap is not "antibiotic" Agricultural use of antibiotics to increase production in livestock in feedlots and chicken fars has far, far more to do with breeding superbugs than any human use of same. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:36:03 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:45:34 PM EDT
[#27]
It doesn't help that providers in ERs and hospitalists are giving ABx to patients for no reason. I've had a few transferred to me on ABx with nothing in their collateral except a minor fever upon admit. They will tell me that no infection was determined but that the ABx were prophylactic. Great. Stupid.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:52:37 PM EDT
[#28]
I have read that the reason kids eat their boogers is because children's brains are wired to make them do it...so the body can build natural immunity to things in the child's environment.
Sounds gross.but plausible to me. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 10:03:44 PM EDT
[#29]
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Anti-bacterial soap? Not so much .... "At one conference, Dr. Stuart Levy, a microbiologist at Tufts University, cites these studies to compare antibacterial action with antibiotic resistance: "Dousing everything we touch with antibacterial soaps and taking antibiotic medications at the first sign of a cold can upset the natural balance of microorganisms in and around us, leaving behind only the 'superbugs'."1 See Triclosan#Resistance_concerns It has since been shown that the laboratory method used by Dr. Levy was not effective in predicting bacterial resistance for biocides like triclosan.[5] At least seven peer-reviewed and published studies have been conducted demonstrating that triclosan is not significantly associated with bacterial resistance over the short term, including one study coauthored by Dr. Levy.[6]" de wiki. ... just another incidence of junk science - right along with ozone hole, global warming, DDT, mercury in fish, tris, alar, .... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with.... Anti-bacterial soap? Not so much .... "At one conference, Dr. Stuart Levy, a microbiologist at Tufts University, cites these studies to compare antibacterial action with antibiotic resistance: "Dousing everything we touch with antibacterial soaps and taking antibiotic medications at the first sign of a cold can upset the natural balance of microorganisms in and around us, leaving behind only the 'superbugs'."1 See Triclosan#Resistance_concerns It has since been shown that the laboratory method used by Dr. Levy was not effective in predicting bacterial resistance for biocides like triclosan.[5] At least seven peer-reviewed and published studies have been conducted demonstrating that triclosan is not significantly associated with bacterial resistance over the short term, including one study coauthored by Dr. Levy.[6]" de wiki. ... just another incidence of junk science - right along with ozone hole, global warming, DDT, mercury in fish, tris, alar, .... OK.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 10:10:56 PM EDT
[#30]
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just close the thread and keep repeating to yourself..."ignorance is bliss" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Terrible thread to read as I've been hospitalized since Tuesday with an infection (diverticulitis)... just close the thread and keep repeating to yourself..."ignorance is bliss" The dilaudid is doing a fine job of keeping the level of "give-a-shits" pretty low.... |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 11:06:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Stop selling antibiotics like aspirin to third worlders with no clue how to use them. That's what is breeding the antibiotic resistant strains at an accelerated pace.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 11:31:06 PM EDT
[#32]
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The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with.... No, that would have been deciding to feed the antibiotics we need to treat infections in humans to animals in order to boost growth rates, milk yield, etc. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 12:36:26 AM EDT
[#33]
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Not really bullshit. Bacteria have as many ways to defeat antibiotics as we have antibiotics. My supervisor had an advanced micro degree and worked all over the world. It's even worse in countries that just sell them over the counter. That's where the most resistant organisms start out. 
As opposed to the United States, where we dump more antibiotics into chicken feed and pig feed than we do into people. Of course, *THAT'S* not a problem, because ConAgra and Tyson and Bayer AG make 0.1% more profit per year from the trade. But just let some dumbass like, oh, me for example, buy 20 amoxicillin tablets to treat an obvious case of strep throat without the blessings of a physician first and ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE!!!!
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Posted: 10/26/2013 12:59:14 AM EDT
[#34]
So when are we going back to arsenic and mercury?
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Posted: 10/26/2013 1:05:50 AM EDT
[#35]
MD's are partly to blame. They script the stuff out like candy.
Every cough, sneeze, wheeze , gurgle, and burp nowadays gets scripted a Z-pak. Even though it won't do a damn thing if your problem is a virus. And will make matters far worse if your problem is fungal related. Medicine sometimes outsmarts itself. Back when I was growing up, it was almost a virtual guarantee that you were headed for a tonsillectomy if you came down with strep throat. Surgery was essentially curative of recurrence. Then medical protocol became "enlightened" and changed to pumping kids with multiple upon multiple rounds of stronger & stronger antibiotics instead of opting for the knife. After about the 4th round of antibiotics with my daughter I finally told the pediatrician to take a hike, then scheduled an appt. with an ENT MD to take the tonsils out. Guess what.....problem solved. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 1:37:47 AM EDT
[#36]
There was an article in Popular Science a few years ago about a new anti-bacteria medication being research and fielded. It is currently only being used by the US military in extreme cases where soldiers are having infections in places like Afghanistan that are not responding to conventional anti-bacteria treatments. It is some really harsh shit, it does damage to the patience kidneys, in it's current state.
The method of attack is really interesting. They took that "goo" stuff you see on rainforest frogs that look all oily/wet and turned it into a antibiotic that can work for humans. It goes to the bacteria and basically stabs the bacteria to death, in some way. The researchers behind it are very optimistic about it, because they say for bacteria to become resistant to this, would be like a human being naturally growing bullet proof skin. There is also other really interesting stuff like Epimerox. The problem is being taken very seriously and is being address. I don't think it's panic button time. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 3:32:55 AM EDT
[#37]
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The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with.... We cultured staph out of some 5-month old antibacterial soap. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 3:33:38 AM EDT
[#38]
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Democrats are trying to scare us into banning antibiotics because they love bugs.  Everybody lovers Herbie 
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Posted: 10/26/2013 3:34:07 AM EDT
[#39]
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Actually, it's not uncommon for ICU patients to come down with stuff we simply have ZERO antibiotics to treat. Google VRE (Vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus). It's not a plague, or likely to become one, but it's a problem for debilitated ICU patients who already have enough stacked against them. My mother in law acquired a case of that in John Hopkin's cancer ward... I made sure to wash the heck out of my hands every time I visited her there; who knows what the heck I might pick up, germ-wise. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 3:46:50 AM EDT
[#40]
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The antibiotics people use are a thimbleful in the ocean compared to those given to livestock such as pigs, cows, and chickens, especially in high-density habitations, which are also the perfect breeding ground for resistant bacteria. That is where the problem lies. That & the banning of disinfectants containing hexachlorophene on spurious fear of a (non-existent) carcinogenic character. This was also key to kick-starting the MRSA epidemic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a question...in the beginning in the age of antibiotics many moons ago; do you think that we would be on better ground if we medically segregated people against their will in a locked facility, until their round of Antibiotics was finished? Seeing as the problem we have today with mutating bacteria--is that people are exposing the bacteria to the anti-biotics, then not finishing the pills---and helping them become more resistant, which can affect an entire population... Thoughts? The antibiotics people use are a thimbleful in the ocean compared to those given to livestock such as pigs, cows, and chickens, especially in high-density habitations, which are also the perfect breeding ground for resistant bacteria. That is where the problem lies. That & the banning of disinfectants containing hexachlorophene on spurious fear of a (non-existent) carcinogenic character. This was also key to kick-starting the MRSA epidemic. this is the key and nothing will ever be done to stop it. too much $ to be made. It can take a decade to develop an effective treatment, many bacteria only take 20 minutes to replicate themselves and pass on their genes. what is 10s of thousands of years of evolutionary changes for us takes a year for them. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 3:53:59 AM EDT
[#41]
So glad I'm not working as an EMT anymore. Worked for a private company and our patients were frequently riddled with MRSA, VRE, ESBL and one supposedly had CRE/CRKP. The nurses couldn't even tell us what those last two really were.
Nasty stuff. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 4:13:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MD's are partly to blame. They script the stuff out like candy. . No hate for the dumbass patients who demand antibiotics for every cold, sniffle, or sneeze? And if you don't give it to them, they go down to administration and complain (generating extra hassle and paperwork), or they tank your Press-Ganey/HCAHPS scores... which can lower the reimbursement the hospital receives. Good medicine ain't about "customer satisfaction." I'm sorry to have to say that, but it's true. The fact remains that, rare cases excepted, I know FAR more about the disease, human physiology, microbiology, and pharmacology than the moron who's pissed that he didn't get a Zpack. But the system will enable and cater to the complaints of people like that, rather than defending me when I send them on their way with a simple "you've got a virus, and antibiotics are not going to help you." Don't lay all that crap at my feet. Physicians been turned into waiters and maitre-d's. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 5:11:32 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No hate for the dumbass patients who demand antibiotics for every cold, sniffle, or sneeze? And if you don't give it to them, they go down to administration and complain (generating extra hassle and paperwork), or they tank your Press-Ganey/HCAHPS scores... which can lower the reimbursement the hospital receives. Good medicine ain't about "customer satisfaction." I'm sorry to have to say that, but it's true. The fact remains that, rare cases excepted, I know FAR more about the disease, human physiology, microbiology, and pharmacology than the moron who's pissed that he didn't get a Zpack. But the system will enable and cater to the complaints of people like that, rather than defending me when I send them on their way with a simple "you've got a virus, and antibiotics are not going to help you." Don't lay all that crap at my feet. Physicians been turned into waiters and maitre-d's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: MD's are partly to blame. They script the stuff out like candy. . No hate for the dumbass patients who demand antibiotics for every cold, sniffle, or sneeze? And if you don't give it to them, they go down to administration and complain (generating extra hassle and paperwork), or they tank your Press-Ganey/HCAHPS scores... which can lower the reimbursement the hospital receives. Good medicine ain't about "customer satisfaction." I'm sorry to have to say that, but it's true. The fact remains that, rare cases excepted, I know FAR more about the disease, human physiology, microbiology, and pharmacology than the moron who's pissed that he didn't get a Zpack. But the system will enable and cater to the complaints of people like that, rather than defending me when I send them on their way with a simple "you've got a virus, and antibiotics are not going to help you." Don't lay all that crap at my feet. Physicians been turned into waiters and maitre-d's. I have suggested more than once to ER physicians, hospital administrators, and nursing staff that if immediately after checking in to the ER, the patient by protocol would be given an IV that was flushed with: *12.5mg of promethazine, *2 of versed, *and 50mcg of fentanyl. They would then be placed in a dark, cold room with plenty of blankets and some pleasant music.....patient satisfaction scores would go through the roof, treatment areas in the ER would be less crowded, and the vast majority of patients having had a good nap would realize they don't actually need to see a physician. Or the other option, which is better suited to chronic heavy users of ER's is to: Start and IV then administer *100mg of etomidate. I know, I know........a well sedated patient is important here. *1mg/kg of anectine. *place endotraceal tube, *with placement assured, follow with long acting paralytics via pump *place patient on disposable ventilator connected to large oxygen tank. *place patient on boat that is GPS controlled to go to Cuba. *Profit? |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 5:16:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No hate for the dumbass patients who demand antibiotics for every cold, sniffle, or sneeze? And if you don't give it to them, they go down to administration and complain (generating extra hassle and paperwork), or they tank your Press-Ganey/HCAHPS scores... which can lower the reimbursement the hospital receives. Good medicine ain't about "customer satisfaction." I'm sorry to have to say that, but it's true. The fact remains that, rare cases excepted, I know FAR more about the disease, human physiology, microbiology, and pharmacology than the moron who's pissed that he didn't get a Zpack. But the system will enable and cater to the complaints of people like that, rather than defending me when I send them on their way with a simple "you've got a virus, and antibiotics are not going to help you." Don't lay all that crap at my feet. Physicians been turned into waiters and maitre-d's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
MD's are partly to blame. They script the stuff out like candy. . No hate for the dumbass patients who demand antibiotics for every cold, sniffle, or sneeze? And if you don't give it to them, they go down to administration and complain (generating extra hassle and paperwork), or they tank your Press-Ganey/HCAHPS scores... which can lower the reimbursement the hospital receives. Good medicine ain't about "customer satisfaction." I'm sorry to have to say that, but it's true. The fact remains that, rare cases excepted, I know FAR more about the disease, human physiology, microbiology, and pharmacology than the moron who's pissed that he didn't get a Zpack. But the system will enable and cater to the complaints of people like that, rather than defending me when I send them on their way with a simple "you've got a virus, and antibiotics are not going to help you." Don't lay all that crap at my feet. Physicians been turned into waiters and maitre-d's. This is the truth. Re-read several times over if anyone has any more questions. You'll find the answer here. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 5:35:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have read that the reason kids eat their boogers is because children's brains are wired to make them do it...so the body can build natural immunity to things in the child's environment. Sounds gross.but plausible to me. And they stick everything in their mouths, like puppies. I've wondered the same thing. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 5:44:02 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My mother in law acquired a case of that in John Hopkin's cancer ward... I made sure to wash the heck out of my hands every time I visited her there; who knows what the heck I might pick up, germ-wise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Actually, it's not uncommon for ICU patients to come down with stuff we simply have ZERO antibiotics to treat. Google VRE (Vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus). It's not a plague, or likely to become one, but it's a problem for debilitated ICU patients who already have enough stacked against them. My mother in law acquired a case of that in John Hopkin's cancer ward... I made sure to wash the heck out of my hands every time I visited her there; who knows what the heck I might pick up, germ-wise. Vre is pretty common and can be part of normal flora. Problem is, depending in the organism and mechanism of resistance, some organisms can pass that gene on to a differant org all together. So you vre could turn into vrsa, which would be very bad. Right now we are verifying our automated vanc mic's by a manual method per the infection control docs and pharmacy. That's how dangerous a vrsa is. Vrsa = vanco resistant staph aureous Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 5:45:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Well gee. What do you expect when sheniqua takes her rats to the er for a paper cut?
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Posted: 10/26/2013 5:47:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have read that the reason kids eat their boogers is because children's brains are wired to make them do it...so the body can build natural immunity to things in the child's environment. Sounds gross.but plausible to me. ill bring this up to my brother next time i see him, that by putting snot in his hair i was only trying to help him. he really hated riding in the front seat. |
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Posted: 10/26/2013 5:49:35 AM EDT
[#49]
This is a legit problem. Anyone that says BS is a ar tard
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Posted: 10/26/2013 6:05:55 AM EDT
[#50]
VRE, MRSA, and Cdiff are certainly problems. CDC states 23,000 deaths a year due to resistant infections. The newest scare is a gene called NDM-1, can be carried by E. coli among others. If a bacteria has this gene (which makes it resistant to antibiotics) it can pass it to other bacteria that don't possess it. There were 16 cases of infections involving this gene this year, double from last year. Who knows if its the next plague or not. There's always still Ebola (or another super virus) to worry about too. Then antibiotics won't mean squat anyway. |
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