shot a big cotten mouth - Page 2

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Posted: 4/2/2006 10:05:19 AM EDT

[#1]

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I saw his cousin last spring. Lucky for him I wasn't packin' at the time.

img.groundspeak.com/cache/log/f8463685-c869-4476-9868-d05a531fcea7.jpg

how big was that gator, err moccisin?

Cotton mouths aren't suppossed to be this far north, but 1 was up a small creek me and dogs are in commonly on the other side of the mountain last year. Somehow it must have gotten upstream to this area from the new river I guess. It shouldn't have been in that either.
At least it wasn't flying the mexican flag though.

I'm in southwest Virginia and I've seen them.
I am afraid not, what you are seeing are banded or northern water snakes. The only place cottenmouths (watermocasins) are found is the southeastern tip of VA south and east of Colonial Heights.

There are also no cottonmouths in Eastern Ky either.

ETA this is what y'all are seeing
www.hoganphoto.com/Northern_Water_Snake.jpg
studioedwards.com/photos/Img11522_4w.jpg

Someone would have to be pretty ignorant about snakes to mistake that for a Cottonmouth. Cottonmouths have a triangular head and slit eyes like most other poisonous snakes. That one has a round head and eyes.

You can never say for sure where a snake can or can't be found. Nature surprises scientists all the time.
Most people see dark snake, in or near water and instantly scream cottonmouth. If someone finds a cottonmouth living in its natural environment west of I95 in Virginia kills it and brings it too me I will give them $120. Animals, esp. snakes to do not move 200 miles outside of their natural range.

There are wolves, black bears, black panthers (Jaguarundi), and mountain lions... in Mississippi. Hunters report seeing them all the time.

They aren't supposed to be here, but they are. I have seen a black panther. I have hunted on some land where the owner told me not to kill his cougar if I saw it.... my face was like this:

. My uncle saw a grey wolf on his property and I saw the tracks from it (very large... no way it was a domesticated dog). He has hunted in parts of the country where wolves are common and he is dead set that it was a grey wolf.

A lot of times, the "natural range" for animals is a guesstimate, not a fact. There are a lot of instances where animals are in an area where they "aren't supposed to be".

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:18:45 AM EDT

[#2]

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I saw his cousin last spring. Lucky for him I wasn't packin' at the time.

img.groundspeak.com/cache/log/f8463685-c869-4476-9868-d05a531fcea7.jpg

how big was that gator, err moccisin?

Cotton mouths aren't suppossed to be this far north, but 1 was up a small creek me and dogs are in commonly on the other side of the mountain last year. Somehow it must have gotten upstream to this area from the new river I guess. It shouldn't have been in that either.
At least it wasn't flying the mexican flag though.

I'm in southwest Virginia and I've seen them.
I am afraid not, what you are seeing are banded or northern water snakes. The only place cottenmouths (watermocasins) are found is the southeastern tip of VA south and east of Colonial Heights.

There are also no cottonmouths in Eastern Ky either.

ETA this is what y'all are seeing
www.hoganphoto.com/Northern_Water_Snake.jpg
studioedwards.com/photos/Img11522_4w.jpg

Someone would have to be pretty ignorant about snakes to mistake that for a Cottonmouth. Cottonmouths have a triangular head and slit eyes like most other poisonous snakes. That one has a round head and eyes.

You can never say for sure where a snake can or can't be found. Nature surprises scientists all the time.
Most people see dark snake, in or near water and instantly scream cottonmouth. If someone finds a cottonmouth living in its natural environment west of I95 in Virginia kills it and brings it too me I will give them $120. Animals, esp. snakes to do not move 200 miles outside of their natural range.

There are wolves, black bears, black panthers (Jaguarundi), and mountain lions... in Mississippi. Hunters report seeing them all the time.

They aren't supposed to be here, but they are. I have seen a black panther. I have hunted on some land where the owner told me not to kill his cougar if I saw it.... my face was like this: . My uncle saw a grey wolf on his property and I saw the tracks from it (very large... no way it was a domesticated dog). He has hunted in parts of the country where wolves are common and he is dead set that it was a grey wolf.

A lot of times, the "natural range" for animals is a guesstimate, not a fact. There are a lot of instances where animals are in an area where they "aren't supposed to be".

I don't want to sound like a major SOB over the issue, a lot of people see things that they want to see. They don't make it up, they really see something but it isn't really what they see. For example, the grey wolf, I am sure what your uncle saw was a big coyote. He got excited and said he say a wolf, understandable in many cases as the human brain is prone to exageration. A lot of hunters around here say they see things around here all the time but I can assure you they are only rumors and exagerations. As for mountain lions and bears in Mississipi, while I would be skeptical over the mountain lions, it isn't out of the range of possibilities. Just last week I had a landowner who was adimate that what he saw in the woods was a polar bear cub.

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:29:40 AM EDT

[#3]

Just my .02.

The only reason that you "Know" that WMs aren't in that area is becasue some biologist has not seen one.

Snakes and animals ranges change.

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:30:44 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I am afraid not, what you are seeing are banded or northern water snakes. The only place cottenmouths (watermocasins) are found is the southeastern tip of VA south and east of Colonial Heights.

There are also no cottonmouths in Eastern Ky either.

Alright. Not saying that Wikipedia is always accurate, but:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottonmouth

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:42:41 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I am afraid not, what you are seeing are banded or northern water snakes. The only place cottenmouths (watermocasins) are found is the southeastern tip of VA south and east of Colonial Heights.

There are also no cottonmouths in Eastern Ky either.

Alright. Not saying that Wikipedia is always accurate, but:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottonmouth

Again, not to sound like a know it all asshole

but there are cottonmouths in Kentucky down along the southwest portions where there are bottomland swamps and oxbow lakes created by the Ohio river valley, but they are none in the eastern region.

Western Cottonmouth linky
Cottenmouth in Virginia Linky

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:47:56 AM EDT

[#6]

I hate snakes. Good thing my Kimber cycles CCI snakeshot perfectly.

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:48:36 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:

There are wolves, black bears, black panthers (Jaguarundi), and mountain lions... in Mississippi. Hunters report seeing them all the time.

They aren't supposed to be here, but they are. I have seen a black panther. I have hunted on some land where the owner told me not to kill his cougar if I saw it.... my face was like this: . My uncle saw a grey wolf on his property and I saw the tracks from it (very large... no way it was a domesticated dog). He has hunted in parts of the country where wolves are common and he is dead set that it was a grey wolf.

A lot of times, the "natural range" for animals is a guesstimate, not a fact. There are a lot of instances where animals are in an area where they "aren't supposed to be".
I don't want to sound like a major SOB over the issue, a lot of people see things that they want to see. They don't make it up, they really see something but it isn't really what they see. For example, the grey wolf, I am sure what your uncle saw was a big coyote. He got excited and said he say a wolf, understandable in many cases as the human brain is prone to exageration. A lot of hunters around here say they see things around here all the time but I can assure you they are only rumors and exagerations. As for mountain lions and bears in Mississipi, while I would be skeptical over the mountain lions, it isn't out of the range of possibilities. Just last week I had a landowner who was adimate that what he saw in the woods was a polar bear cub.

I saw the tracks. That was no coyote. You apparently missed the part where I said that he has seen wolves before and he has also seen a hell of a lot of coyotes. A coyote, even a big one, wouldn't have excited him in the least. He swears it was a wolf.

I would tend to believe that there was, in fact, a wolf in MS before I would believe there is a freakishly large, dark grey coyote. It could have been one that ran away after someone tried to keep it as a pet. There is no way to tell how it got here.

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:51:49 AM EDT

[#8]

how does it taste?

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:51:58 AM EDT

[#9]

I saw the tracks. That was no coyote. You apparently missed the part where I said that he has seen wolves before and he has also seen a hell of a lot of coyotes. He swears it was a wolf.

I would tend to believe that there was, in fact, a wolf in MS before I would believe there is a freakishly large, dark grey coyote. It could have been one that ran away after someone tried to keep it as a pet. There is no way to tell how it got here.

They have been killing coyotes around there that are almost all black and some almost all white. The bottom line is he swears that it was a wolf, he saw a canine that was big and grey he got excited and thought it was wolf though it was 1,800 miles out of its range. The mind exagerates.

Posted: 4/2/2006 10:55:25 AM EDT

[#10]

I have seen some cottonmouths that where 5' plus and as big around as a coke can.

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:27:55 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

I saw the tracks. That was no coyote. You apparently missed the part where I said that he has seen wolves before and he has also seen a hell of a lot of coyotes. He swears it was a wolf.

I would tend to believe that there was, in fact, a wolf in MS before I would believe there is a freakishly large, dark grey coyote. It could have been one that ran away after someone tried to keep it as a pet. There is no way to tell how it got here.
They have been killing coyotes around there that are almost all black and some almost all white. The bottom line is he swears that it was a wolf, he saw a canine that was big and grey he got excited and thought it was wolf though it was 1,800 miles out of its range. The mind exagerates.

Ok, my uncle saw the biggest, greyest coyote in history with prints bigger than any canine I have ever seen.

Fine, have it your way.

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:35:17 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Again, not to sound like a know it all asshole but there are cottonmouths in Kentucky down along the southwest portions where there are bottomland swamps and oxbow lakes created by the Ohio river valley, but they are none in the eastern region.

Western Cottonmouth linky
Cottenmouth in Virginia Linky

Edit: Wait. You're just talking about Kentucky, right?

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:37:07 AM EDT

[#13]

Congratulations bub, you just killed a federally protected species and posted pics on the internet.

Hey, you're my hero (I hate the fuckers) and I am saying this (somewhat) in jest. They really are, and I am sure circumstance can/will justify it... but take that FWIW.

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:45:39 AM EDT

[#14]

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Again, not to sound like a know it all asshole but there are cottonmouths in Kentucky down along the southwest portions where there are bottomland swamps and oxbow lakes created by the Ohio river valley, but they are none in the eastern region.

Western Cottonmouth linky
Cottenmouth in Virginia Linky

Edit: Wait. You're just talking about Kentucky, right?

I am talking about Kentucky and Virginia.......the natural range of the cotton mouth falls in far western Kentucky, not the eastern part like another poster said and theya are found in Virginia in the far southeastern corner, not in the southwest portion as another poster stated.

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:46:27 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I saw his cousin last spring. Lucky for him I wasn't packin' at the time.

img.groundspeak.com/cache/log/f8463685-c869-4476-9868-d05a531fcea7.jpg

Good God! I'd piss myself if I saw that right after I trip my wife and started running.

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:54:36 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Congratulations bub, you just killed a federally protected species and posted pics on the internet.

Hey, you're my hero (I hate the fuckers) and I am saying this (somewhat) in jest. They really are, and I am sure circumstance can/will justify it... but take that FWIW.

I'm gonna have to see some proof before I believe that.

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:55:50 AM EDT

[#17]

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Congratulations bub, you just killed a federally protected species and posted pics on the internet.

Hey, you're my hero (I hate the fuckers) and I am saying this (somewhat) in jest. They really are, and I am sure circumstance can/will justify it... but take that FWIW.

I'm gonna have to see some proof before I believe that.

BRB... let me see what I can find

ETA: Nothing is comming up so easily on a search. I'm out of time so this will have to wait until the WLF offices open tomorrow

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:56:55 AM EDT

[#18]

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Congratulations bub, you just killed a federally protected species and posted pics on the internet.

Hey, you're my hero (I hate the fuckers) and I am saying this (somewhat) in jest. They really are, and I am sure circumstance can/will justify it... but take that FWIW.

I'm gonna have to see some proof before I believe that.

Aye, I call bullshit back in Texas we killed em all the time. They were a big fucking nuisance.

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:59:20 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Congratulations bub, you just killed a federally protected species and posted pics on the internet.

Hey, you're my hero (I hate the fuckers) and I am saying this (somewhat) in jest. They really are, and I am sure circumstance can/will justify it... but take that FWIW.

I'm gonna have to see some proof before I believe that.

BRB... let me see what I can find

I already searched Google and couldn't find anything.

The water snake is protected in some STATES but I couldn't find anything about the water moccasin/cottonmouth.

Posted: 4/2/2006 6:15:20 PM EDT

[#20]

i took that pic about two hours after shooting it. even after i cut off it head it fought us the whole time i was skinning it. Theres no way its a federaly protected species just in the lil fifty foot by twenty foot hole i found him in had four or five others. maby some states protect it but in south louisiana there one of the most common species likely to be encountered by a pretty wide margin. i have been walking though my deer lease and have seen atleast one about every ten feet and thats not looking for them. and yes they are real cotten mouths not "water snakes"

Posted: 4/2/2006 6:31:21 PM EDT

[#21]

Awesome snake, except for the whole being murdered part.

Posted: 4/2/2006 6:44:17 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Cottonmouths and water moccasin's scare the holy bejeebus out of me.

You do the same to them.

Posted: 4/2/2006 6:48:48 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
poor snake

+1, I aint no goddamn hippie, but I just really like snakes for some reason.

Posted: 4/2/2006 6:49:08 PM EDT

[#24]

Take a trip through the everglades sometime. They are everywhere.

Posted: 4/2/2006 6:58:32 PM EDT

[#25]

Good job! I freaking hate snakes! Scared to death of 'em!

Posted: 4/2/2006 6:58:53 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

They also smell like raw sewage. You don't want to eat a water mocasin. Yuk.

Water Moccasins smell awful, just like rotten pie, very musky. We kill a ton of them every year while duck hunting and fishing. Better safe than sorry.

(The beer can was used for a size reference only

)

Posted: 4/2/2006 7:04:53 PM EDT

[#27]

Boo!!!

We only saw some 6 or 8 snakes on a 31 mile canoue trip this weekend - saw 10 or 12 gators.

I love Florida!!

Later,

Badredfish

Quoted:
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I saw his cousin last spring. Lucky for him I wasn't packin' at the time.

img.groundspeak.com/cache/log/f8463685-c869-4476-9868-d05a531fcea7.jpg

That's a crock of fucking bullshit. No way those damn things should be able to get away with being alive. Motherfucker, I like the south but I could never live there - you've got those spawn of satan in the east, and fucking snakes of all kinds AND scorpions (and big spiders too) in the west.

Fuck, I saw a rattler in the road a few summers ago, and about jumped into the passenger seat of my truck because my window was open when I passed the bastard at 30MPH. Yes, I have a fear of fucking snakes.

Posted: 4/2/2006 7:06:53 PM EDT

[#28]

i don't kill just every snake i see. this was a snake worth skinning. if its not something i want i usualy leave it alone unless it could pose a problem to a kid or one of my pets. just today i let a foot long copper head cross the road. if would have been at least four foot he would of joined the cotten mouth.

Posted: 4/2/2006 7:57:49 PM EDT

[#29]

Forget salting the skin.Mix up a gal of half glycerin half alcohol ,scrape all the fat and flesh from the skin and soak the skin for at least 14 days. It will cure and be soft and supple ..Salt dries the skin out and makes it brittle. I have used this method on about 20 rattle snakes and after 4-5 years the skins still look fresh ..

Posted: 4/2/2006 8:23:09 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I saw the tracks. That was no coyote. You apparently missed the part where I said that he has seen wolves before and he has also seen a hell of a lot of coyotes. He swears it was a wolf.

I would tend to believe that there was, in fact, a wolf in MS before I would believe there is a freakishly large, dark grey coyote. It could have been one that ran away after someone tried to keep it as a pet. There is no way to tell how it got here.
They have been killing coyotes around there that are almost all black and some almost all white. The bottom line is he swears that it was a wolf, he saw a canine that was big and grey he got excited and thought it was wolf though it was 1,800 miles out of its range. The mind exagerates.

Ok, my uncle saw the biggest, greyest coyote in history with prints bigger than any canine I have ever seen.

Fine, have it your way.

\

The WI DNR published a map of the Wolf's range in the state. It's far north central WI.

In 2001, a lone female Wolf came through my farm in southern WI in the middle of the night. My GSD scented it and went absolutely batshit. At least that's what I think happened. Couldn't figure out what he alerted to at the time, but the next day the wolf was killed on I94 8 miles due south of my place. The Wolf was tagged. It's home range was west of Green Bay WI.

Two years ago, I drove by what I thought must have been a large and lanky looking Husky/GSD mix dog about 2 miles from a friend's farm a few miles outside of Eau Claire. It had no collar and wasn't near any farms. I thought "damn that REALLY looks like a wolf". I have seen plenty of coyotes and stuff, but never saw a wolf. When I arrived at my friend's place, I told him about it. "Oh yeah, there is wolf hanging around, I saw it but couldn't get a shot, and the neighbors have seen it too". Said friend has 3 little girls that run around and play on the farm.

Up to that point, the DNR wouldn't confirm the existence of wolves outside what they defined as their "range". Since then, the DNR has revised it's "wolf range" map.....

There are consistent reports of cougars in that area too. DNR: deny, obfuscate, insult the reporter.......

Last year, a local gang that hunts coyotes around here in southern WI shot a wolf by mistake. This one was not tagged. A local landowner that I know, who has been on his farm for 40 years, has seen a wolf three or four times in the early AM out his window over the winter, and he has gotten some good looks at it. However, the DNR's position is "there are no wolves in southern WI".........

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:11:20 PM EDT

[#31]

It was probably a harmless water snake. There are several species, and they're often mistaken for cotton mouths. Even most of the "cotton mouths" seen in the deep south, especially the ones that hang in trees above the water, are actually non-venomous species.

that would be my guess but this guy knows them well, he was actually bitten by 1 on the new river years ago and they had to fly the anti venom for cotton mouths from charleston wv, he said it was much worse than a rattle snake bite.
Rattle snakes strike quickly, but according to him cotton mouths don't let go when they bite, and he had to strike this snake with a stick a few times before it let go of his hand.

He also shot the 1 at the creek last year at their trailer and said it was a cotton mouth for certain. He knows these typs of things.

Posted: 4/2/2006 11:38:37 PM EDT

[#32]

There's no mistaking a viper from a non poisnous snake.
I agree that animals have a way of turning up were they "shouldn't" be.
Besides, winters have been warmer in recent years it seems, maybe they are moving further north with longer warm months, who knows. Maybe it's only a few I don't know, but nature doesn't surprise me. There's a volcano shaped geographical formation known as burkes garden maybe 20 miles as the crow flies from here,

cool place

anyhow, very productive and beautiful farmlands in the bowl, with some of the most remote land in the state of va. on the sw side outside of the bowl. Back in the '50s those farmlands were terrorized by a large predator that killed 50 some thousand $s worth of sheep over months. They couldn't catch it or trap it, but had some hunter from eurpose bring some special dogs over and it was eventually shot, it was a western cyote, and was much bigger than those in the east. They don't know how it got here.
It's known as the varmint. Never say never about wild life.
Don't forget the teenage boy who was killed by a juvenile great white at the small fresh water simming hole at the end of matewan creek, nj in 1914.

Posted: 4/3/2006 3:25:43 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
It was probably a harmless water snake. There are several species, and they're often mistaken for cotton mouths. Even most of the "cotton mouths" seen in the deep south, especially the ones that hang in trees above the water, are actually non-venomous species.

that would be my guess but this guy knows them well, he was actually bitten by 1 on the new river years ago and they had to fly the anti venom for cotton mouths from charleston wv, he said it was much worse than a rattle snake bite.
Rattle snakes strike quickly, but according to him cotton mouths don't let go when they bite, and he had to strike this snake with a stick a few times before it let go of his hand.

He also shot the 1 at the creek last year at their trailer and said it was a cotton mouth for certain. He knows these typs of things.

Dude I have to give that the big

For one thing if the snake wouldn't let go it would have been a northernwater snake. Cottenmouths, copperheads and rattlesnakes all strike the same, they are vipers not Colubrids (aka harmless snakes). As an amature herpitologists I would be very interested to see the medical report on the bite. Until I have solid proof from the doctor I will remain skeptical.

As for the greatwhite shark in NJ that isn't all unbelievable. Greatwhites prefer cold water and bull sharks have dispelled the myth that they can't survive outside of saltwater.

The picture you showed is from a place called Burke's Garden BTW.

Posted: 4/3/2006 3:32:15 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

We have it made it the u.s.., except for florida and some of the southeastern states with their gators.

Here in the US we make things extinct if they are nusinesnce or dangerous. I like that.

Posted: 4/3/2006 3:39:40 AM EDT

[#35]

his story not mine, but, I trust the guy, he's not the lying type. Couldn't have been any northern water snake, it was a viper and he knows it was a cotton mouth because they had to get the anti venom for it. I don't know about any medical report though, he might have it he might not, it was in the '70s, but not a big enough thing to go to him for proof about to me though.
Nothin wrong with being skeptical of something out of the ordinary. I doubt I'd believe it myself if it weren't for the source.

The great white story is well known and documented of course, it was the shark that killed 4 or 5 people in a few days.

Anyhow, I wrote it's burkes garden, been there many many times since I was small, beautiful place!

Posted: 4/3/2006 3:54:26 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
his story not mine, but, I trust the guy, he's not the lying type. Couldn't have been any northern water snake, it was a viper and he knows it was a cotton mouth because they had to get the anti venom for it. I don't know about any medical report though, he might have it he might not, it was in the '70s, but not a big enough thing to go to him for proof about to me though.
Nothin wrong with being skeptical of something out of the ordinary. I doubt I'd believe it myself if it weren't for the source.

The great white story is well known and documented of course, it was the shark that killed 4 or 5 people in a few days.

Anyhow, I wrote it's burkes garden, been there many many times since I was small, beautiful place!

Listen, I know I have come across as being a major asshole in this thread so I hope I haven't been rubbing everyone the wrong way. Your friend who was bitten was not and could not have been bitten by a cottenmouth. If he really was envenomated by a snake bite in West Virginia I would put money that it was a copperhead. Copperheads are a very close relative to the cottenmouth and a lot of moutain folk call copperheads "moccasins" and in the cooler mountain climates copperheads become very dark in coloration as to absorb more sunlight to warm up quicker.

Like I said in previous postings a lot of people see snakes near water, the snake is brownish black with something of a triangle shapped head and they scream cottenmouth.....people have called me to their homes to catch all of their cottonmouths and 100% of the time what they have are northern watersnakes. I have heard stories about poisonous snakes from people who have heard from someone who saw someone catch one.....(you get the picture)

Off subject but not only is Burke's Garden a cool place, but it grows probably some of the best red oak, cherry and maple timber in the state.

Posted: 4/3/2006 7:28:35 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Listen, I know I have come across as being a major asshole in this thread

Not unusual, but we like you anyway.

so I hope I haven't been rubbing everyone the wrong way.

Couldn't tell that, but hey, I'm cool with it.

Your friend who was bitten was not and could not have been bitten by a cottenmouth.

Good to know that you are telepathic and know what was without being there. Wouldn't unlikely or even highly unliely be a better term for this?

If he really was envenomated by a snake bite in West Virginia I would put money that it was a copperhead.

Possible. I never saw a Water moccasin while I was in Eastern KY.

Copperheads are a very close relative to the cottenmouth and a lot of moutain folk call copperheads "moccasins" and in the cooler mountain climates copperheads become very dark in coloration as to absorb more sunlight to warm up quicker.

Most of the copperheads in South Texas seem to be less vibrantly colored and darker w/ more muted patterns that the pictures in the books. That said, they do not look like water moccs.

Like I said in previous postings a lot of people see snakes near water, the snake is brownish black with something of a triangle shapped head and they scream cottenmouth.....people have called me to their homes to catch all of their cottonmouths and 100% of the time what they have are northern watersnakes. I have heard stories about poisonous snakes from people who have heard from someone who saw someone catch one.....(you get the picture)

Yep, unless you are on site and get bitten by the cottonmouth, you ain't gonna believe its a cottonmouth until its fangs in muscle tissue & its your muscle tissue.

Off subject but not only is Burke's Garden a cool place, but it grows probably some of the best red oak, cherry and maple timber in the state.

Gratuitous jab after calling his friend either a 1: Liar or 2) idiot??

Damn, I['m ffeeling frisky this morning.

Posted: 4/3/2006 7:38:18 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Take a trip through the everglades and south georgia sometime. They are everywhere.

There, I fixed it for you. I speak from experience because I've come close to getting bit by the dang things on about 3 or 4 different occassions in my 34 year old life. I've come to the point where I hate these things with a passion.

Posted: 4/3/2006 4:25:52 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Listen, I know I have come across as being a major asshole in this thread

Not unusual, but we like you anyway.

so I hope I haven't been rubbing everyone the wrong way.

Couldn't tell that, but hey, I'm cool with it.

Your friend who was bitten was not and could not have been bitten by a cottenmouth.

Good to know that you are telepathic and know what was without being there. Wouldn't unlikely or even highly unliely be a better term for this?

After all my experience with being in the woods and being a amature herpatologists for the past 15 or so years, I am as certain that there are no cottenmouths in West Virginia as I am certain that there are no natural populations of king cobras.

Copperheads are a very close relative to the cottenmouth and a lot of moutain folk call copperheads "moccasins" and in the cooler mountain climates copperheads become very dark in coloration as to absorb more sunlight to warm up quicker.

Most of the copperheads in South Texas seem to be less vibrantly colored and darker w/ more muted patterns that the pictures in the books. That said, they do not look like water moccs.

I have seen copperheads that are briliantly colored and I have seen some that are very drab with a lot of black pigments. Color paterns of snakes will very quite a bit from region to region. It depends on climates, soils and leaf litter. Some of the cottenmouths in eastern South Carolina were almost jet black while the ones in western Louisiana were brown. Since the copperhead and cottenmouth are in the same Genus, they also have the same hourglass crossbands. I know the copperheads in south Texas look nothing like the ones here in the central Appalachian mountains different climate, different soils, different vegetation= different color pigments.

Like I said in previous postings a lot of people see snakes near water, the snake is brownish black with something of a triangle shapped head and they scream cottenmouth.....people have called me to their homes to catch all of their cottonmouths and 100% of the time what they have are northern watersnakes. I have heard stories about poisonous snakes from people who have heard from someone who saw someone catch one.....(you get the picture)

Yep, unless you are on site and get bitten by the cottonmouth, you ain't gonna believe its a cottonmouth until its fangs in muscle tissue & its your muscle tissue.
As I said, I have heard story after story after story about cottenmouths. Its range does not take it anywhere near where some people have "spotted" them. They are seeing northern water snakes or dark colored copperheads.

Off subject but not only is Burke's Garden a cool place, but it grows probably some of the best red oak, cherry and maple timber in the state.

Gratuitous jab after calling his friend either a 1: Liar or 2) idiot??

Just posting some interesting local trivia to someone whom might find it interesting.

Damn, I['m ffeeling frisky this morning.

Posted: 4/3/2006 7:18:04 PM EDT

[#40]

Just messing with you VT.

It would be cool to walk the hills of appalachia with someone who knew where to find them and how to look at them wihtout getting fucked up.

Posted: 4/3/2006 7:22:23 PM EDT

[#41]

Global warming, brother. We aren't supposed to have fire ants, killer bees, or armadillos this far north in Arkansas, either but all 3 are here. Movin farther north every year, too and will progress until we have a real winter. Probably around the year 4056.

Be careful around them moccasins, they are aggressive bastards. Stink like hell, too!

Posted: 4/3/2006 7:34:07 PM EDT

[#42]

Hey isnt that Ivory Billed Woodpecker extinct now?

Katrina Snakes

Posted: 4/3/2006 8:25:47 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Global warming, brother. We aren't supposed to have fire ants, killer bees, or armadillos this far north in Arkansas, either but all 3 are here. Movin farther north every year, too and will progress until we have a real winter. Probably around the year 4056.

Be careful around them moccasins, they are aggressive bastards. Stink like hell, too!

We've got armadillos around here. Coming up I-44 eastbound they're common until you get past Rolla, and I've seen them in Pacific. That's only about 35 miles SW of St. Louis.

Posted: 4/3/2006 8:35:14 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Well, the guns help. If I ever see a rattler in the wild, I will probably unleash more firepower upon that fucking thing than a whole armored division can muster.

When you run over them just right, they make a pop like a 22 goin off

Very first one I ever shot, I was 13 deer hunting with a Marlin 336 in 35rem. I thought my boot lace was draggin in the leaves behind me and as I turned I realized the snake was between my feet and starting to coil up!

Did my best impression of an elmer fudd chuck norris roundabout jump backwards as I started to unleash the first volley of 200gr round nose from the marlin. He had started to coil up when I started to shoot, bout 5' away. First 4 rounds from the hip hit under him and kept kicking him up in the air, finally as I was stepping backwards, it decided it should exit up the dirt bank. I had one shot left, made sure the verticle wire was on him and touched it off.

My dad made me pack what was left out to skin it. I had hit it somwhere about 10-14" behind it's head. I had to get a 6' board that was 8" wide to put it on, all 56" that was left. I'll never forget, 13 rattles and a button

I hate snakes with a passion

Posted: 4/3/2006 8:35:28 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
poor snake

+1, I aint no goddamn hippie, but I just really like snakes for some reason.

truth man. I'm pretty fond of most animals. me, I would have watched the thing for a while, then be happy as we go our separate ways.

Posted: 4/3/2006 8:46:06 PM EDT

[#46]

I killed 6 of these last year while out hunting.

Posted: 4/3/2006 8:54:41 PM EDT

[#47]

Thats a pretty big moccasin. I hate those snakes.

There was one of those nature guys on tv messing with one when I was watching it one time. He then proceeded to say that they have a bad reputation as being aggressive but they really aren't

. He obviously has not spent much time around them. That is one of my biggest fears when duck hunting in the marshes cause those fuckers get huge out in the backwaters. Had one try to get in our boat one time. He got a nice taste of #4 3" steel shot then fed to a gator.

Posted: 4/3/2006 10:34:25 PM EDT

[#48]

vthokieshooter, no offense taken neighbor, you seem to know what you're talking about, could be my friend is simply wrong, I'll never know. I'm still gonna say "you "100%" certain" it was a water moccisin" when I'm over there whenever, though.
But that said, still a believer that things can show up somewhere where they shouldn't be. But who knows.
Anyhow if you enjoy snakes, along the ridges and up high on the longer mountains here on the southern side 20 some years ago dens of rattlers were common, and I'm talking about dens of hundreds of them. They've said thousands but I don't know if that's an exxageration or not.
They've been dynamited or whatever they do for those though.

As much as I'm out in the woods I rarely see any snakes, might be because my dogs run interference and scare snakes away and make a lot of noise.

I did see this really beautiful "timber" ratler in fall of '05, it was almost black it was so dark.... Really beautiful.

Andyeah if you go up on the ridges above burkes garden lots of beautiful trees. In fact in the northwest corner just on top of the tallest mountain in the area up there at 4,700 there's a spongelum sp? bog, really unique and fun to explore and a somewhat different envinronment than anywhere else in sw region aside from the highlands of mt. rogers. Hardly ever anyone up there either. Lots and lots of bears and wildlife.... No moccisins though.............

I have an album with some photos from up there.......

community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=138519687&security=SkpBpY

Posted: 4/3/2006 10:44:17 PM EDT

[#49]

I once killed this fuckin garter snake that musta been six or seven inches. Not
shittin' you!

Posted: 4/3/2006 11:15:45 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

As for the greatwhite shark in NJ that isn't all unbelievable. Greatwhites prefer cold water and bull sharks have dispelled the myth that they can't survive outside of saltwater.

The story about the great white shark in NJ is true... It is the story upon which the movie Jaws is based on... The History Channel did a special on it a few years back...one of their more interesting specials...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - shot a big cotten mouth (Page 2 of 4)

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