[ARCHIVED THREAD] - s/o Why has Cowboy Action Shooting lost so much popularity in the U.S. ? (Poll added) (Page 8 of 10)
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Hi Folks, I only read the first page. Wow! The disrespect for another shooting sport saddened me. On FB, I have read posts that also showed disdain for Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS). It makes me very sad that, in the current political climate of hatred for gun owners, we aren't unified in our love of shooting sports and respect for the Second Amendment. CAS is the first shooting sport I've participated in. One of several reasons was that I love the costumes. I've made many of my own costumes and even shot in a bustle. Two of my dearest friends were even the NRA's Women of the Year. Both shoot in fabulous costumes. I now participate in Wild Bunch Action Shooting. We still wear costumes. However, instead of shooting Single Action Army Revolvers, we shoot 1911 pistols. I could go on and on about my love for these guns and sports. However, the point I want to make would be lost. We need to support any and all shooting sports, whether we participate in them or not. Thank you to anyone who read this post. Sincerely, Allie Mo (my "dumb" alias) 2. Point out what is 'disrespectful' about any post on the front page. while some comments may be quite blunt, a criticism / opinion is not inherently disrespectful. don't take things personally. 3. This thread was / is an invitation to answer a specific question. |
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Quoted: Now you're making shit up. Took me about 10 seconds to find readily available factory loads. 125 grain lead 38 Special "Every other shooting sport does it, why not this one?" If I remember correctly SASS has a higher membership that any other shooting sport. Maybe it's the rest of them that are wrong. 
And where exactly do you draw the line when it comes to competitive advantage? You obviously think we should all be required to use the same ammo. What about guns? I shoot a pair of Vaqueros. Should I not have been allowed to put lighter springs in them because I now have a competitive advantage? What about my shotgun? Should I not have been allowed to smooth out the chambers for ease of extracting spent hulls because I now have a competitive advantage? What about my rifle? Should I not have been allowed to hone the internals to make the action smoother because I now have a competitive advantage? Hell, let's take it a step further. Should I not be allowed to practice because that gives me a competitive advantage? It's a game. People play to win. If some folks don't want to do that fine. Why should an entire sport have to change just because a few can't stand that others play it differently than they do? Steel Challenge (for example) has many divisions so that competitors are competing against each other and not against equipment. This includes "open" class which is anything goes, to 'stock' class which requires bone-stock open sighted pistols. To 'single stack stock' which is for oob 1911's. Setting up divisions so folks are competing with similar equipment, creating a contest of skill and not equipment, is not an unreasonable proposition. Except you seem to think it is. I'm unclear as to why. |
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Hi Folks, I only read the first page. Wow! The disrespect for another shooting sport saddened me. On FB, I have read posts that also showed disdain for Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS). It makes me very sad that, in the current political climate of hatred for gun owners, we aren't unified in our love of shooting sports and respect for the Second Amendment. CAS is the first shooting sport I've participated in. One of several reasons was that I love the costumes. I've made many of my own costumes and even shot in a bustle. Two of my dearest friends were even the NRA's Women of the Year. Both shoot in fabulous costumes. I now participate in Wild Bunch Action Shooting. We still wear costumes. However, instead of shooting Single Action Army Revolvers, we shoot 1911 pistols. I could go on and on about my love for these guns and sports. However, the point I want to make would be lost. We need to support any and all shooting sports, whether we participate in them or not. Thank you to anyone who read this post. Sincerely, Allie Mo (my "dumb" alias) 
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Quoted: This is like... 100 percent backwards. The "shooters being punished" are the ones who don't reload, and purchase normal off the shelf stuff. Games are only fun when everyone is on a reasonably equal playing field. Shooter A shooting powder puff loads, vs shooter b shooting full power loads, being forced to compete directly against one another is not a reasonably equal playing field. We don't allow amputees to compete with "whole" athletes either, because artificial legs creates an un-equal playing field. Ditch some of those divisions based on the clothing you're wearing, and create divisions based on real meaningful differences that have an effect on the competition. Every other shooting sport does it, why not this one? No one is taking your powder puff loads away. Just setting it up so that you're competing against other powder puff loads. How is that unreasonable or unfair? Or... a punishment to you? If shooter A is allowed to shoot powder puff loads & shooter B is forced to shoot full power loads. That would be punishing shooter B. But that is not how is works. Both shooters are allowed to shoot powder puff loads if they choose. If shooter B uses full power loads, he is a dumbass. If shooter B uses full power loads & then complains of unfairness, he is a childish dumbass. In any competition the competitors have a responsibility to learn the rules & use those rules to their advantage. If they choose not to use those rules to their competitive advantage. They are only hindering their performance of the game. Play along or not, but to blame the rules (that are applied equally to everyone) for poor performance is foolish. |
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The shooter that is shooting full power loads is NOT being punished. If shooter A is allowed to shoot powder puff loads & shooter B is forced to shoot full power loads. That would be punishing shooter B. But that is not how is works. Both shooters are allowed to shoot powder puff loads if they choose. If shooter B uses full power loads, he is a dumbass. If shooter B uses full power loads & then complains of unfairness, he is a childish dumbass. In any competition the competitors have a responsibility to learn the rules & use those rules to their advantage. If they choose not to use those rules to their competitive advantage. They are only hindering their performance of the game. Play along or not, but to blame the rules (that are applied equally to everyone) for poor performance is foolish. Some common themes have surfaced in this thread. 1. Costume requirements. 2. No meaningful division of equipment. (which is something IDPA, Steel Challenge, 3-gun, etc all do) I get 'being within the rules'. Rules are rules and there is no such thing as a loophole. But you might consider modifying the rules a bit to create classes to allow for folks who wish to play a game on a footing that is enjoyable to themselves. I really don't get the resistance to this. Let the powder puff guys and the full power guys be in their respective divisions. Have divisions for "off the shelf" gear and customized gear. Everyone competes in their division. Everyone is happy. |
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To clarify the exposed hammer requirement for shotguns. That applies to pump and lever action shotguns. Boxlock SxS (no exposed hammers) are GTG. https://www.rockislandauction.com/html/dev_cdn/1024/3584.jpg BTW, all that you show HAVE external hammers and were SASS legal. The rule was changed 15 to 20 years ago in order to take the Marlin pump S/Gs out of the game. It seems if not properly maintained, the bolt could come flying back into your face, with disastrous results. Therefore, the Wild Bunch ruled that the only pump S/G allowed would be the Winchester 97 and its clones. With that they threw out the Marlins, the Winchester 93 and the Spencer Repeating shotgun. Lever action Win 87s have external hammers and were not affected by this rule change. |
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Quoted: the whole premise of this thread is "why is CAS slowly disappearing." Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. Some common themes have surfaced in this thread. 1. Costume requirements. 2. No meaningful division of equipment. (which is something IDPA, Steel Challenge, 3-gun, etc all do) I get 'being within the rules'. Rules are rules and there is no such thing as a loophole. But you might consider modifying the rules a bit to create classes to allow for folks who wish to play a game on a footing that is enjoyable to themselves. I really don't get the resistance to this. Let the powder puff guys and the full power guys be in their respective divisions. Have divisions for "off the shelf" gear and customized gear. Everyone competes in their division. Everyone is happy. In SASS there was a time when the new production henry rifles weren't legal. There's also some SAA versions that weren't allowed...was it the omnibus pistol or bisley hammers on regular SAAs? |
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Love to shoot my single action pistols and lever action rifles. But ... Dressing up like cowboys and shooting with others similarly dress seemed ... silly. Did cowboys dress up like pilgrims and have blunderbuss competitions? |
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It declined considerably after 2008, when fuel went up and reloading components became unobtainium. Common handgun powders like Bullseye, Unique, Train Boss, W231, etc., weren't seen on the shelves for YEARS. Pistol primers were unavailable. Factory ammo, such as .45 Colt, .44-40, .38-40, and even lead bullet .38 spl were wiped out for years, while manufacturers concentrated on 9mm, .40 S&W, .45acp, and .223.
The sport is recovering, but it will never be what it was even 15 years ago. Folks today like black plastic and big magazines instead, so yes, I'm sure age has a lot to do with it. I grew up on Gunsmoke, Bonanza, and The Lone Ranger, so I suppose nostalgia has a big influence on it. Funny costumes? Denim jeans, a button up long sleeve western style shirt from Walmart and boots are just fine. If you'd rather have laces instead of slip-ons, Ariat lacers are very popular. Only a couple categories require specific costuming; B Western, which is SUPPOSED to be ridiculously over the edge, like The Three Amigos or Rustler's Rhapsody, and Classic Cowboy, which is more traditional like John Wayne perhaps. To each his own. I used to shoot Bullseye, and tried 3 Gun, but found CAS much more to my liking. 
I'm disheartened to see how so many of you equate Cowboy Action with being "retarded", gay, or Liberal or some other dumbass analogy. 
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the whole premise of this thread is "why is CAS slowly disappearing." Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. Some common themes have surfaced in this thread. 1. Costume requirements. 2. No meaningful division of equipment. (which is something IDPA, Steel Challenge, 3-gun, etc all do) I get 'being within the rules'. Rules are rules and there is no such thing as a loophole. But you might consider modifying the rules a bit to create classes to allow for folks who wish to play a game on a footing that is enjoyable to themselves. I really don't get the resistance to this. Let the powder puff guys and the full power guys be in their respective divisions. Have divisions for "off the shelf" gear and customized gear. Everyone competes in their division. Everyone is happy. Quoted:
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The shooter that is shooting full power loads is NOT being punished. If shooter A is allowed to shoot powder puff loads & shooter B is forced to shoot full power loads. That would be punishing shooter B. But that is not how is works. Both shooters are allowed to shoot powder puff loads if they choose. If shooter B uses full power loads, he is a dumbass. If shooter B uses full power loads & then complains of unfairness, he is a childish dumbass. In any competition the competitors have a responsibility to learn the rules & use those rules to their advantage. If they choose not to use those rules to their competitive advantage. They are only hindering their performance of the game. Play along or not, but to blame the rules (that are applied equally to everyone) for poor performance is foolish. Some common themes have surfaced in this thread. 1. Costume requirements. 2. No meaningful division of equipment. (which is something IDPA, Steel Challenge, 3-gun, etc all do) I get 'being within the rules'. Rules are rules and there is no such thing as a loophole. But you might consider modifying the rules a bit to create classes to allow for folks who wish to play a game on a footing that is enjoyable to themselves. I really don't get the resistance to this. Let the powder puff guys and the full power guys be in their respective divisions. Have divisions for "off the shelf" gear and customized gear. Everyone competes in their division. Everyone is happy. D |
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Beautiful Spencer / Bannerman's. BTW, all that you show HAVE external hammers and were SASS legal. The rule was changed 15 to 20 years ago in order to take the Marlin pump S/Gs out of the game. It seems if not properly maintained, the bolt could come flying back into your face, with disastrous results. Therefore, the Wild Bunch ruled that the only pump S/G allowed would be the Winchester 97 and its clones. With that they threw out the Marlins, the Winchester 93 and the Spencer Repeating shotgun. Lever action Win 87s have external hammers and were not affected by this rule change. Quoted:
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To clarify the exposed hammer requirement for shotguns. That applies to pump and lever action shotguns. Boxlock SxS (no exposed hammers) are GTG. https://www.rockislandauction.com/html/dev_cdn/1024/3584.jpg BTW, all that you show HAVE external hammers and were SASS legal. The rule was changed 15 to 20 years ago in order to take the Marlin pump S/Gs out of the game. It seems if not properly maintained, the bolt could come flying back into your face, with disastrous results. Therefore, the Wild Bunch ruled that the only pump S/G allowed would be the Winchester 97 and its clones. With that they threw out the Marlins, the Winchester 93 and the Spencer Repeating shotgun. Lever action Win 87s have external hammers and were not affected by this rule change. And firearm competitions must, unfortunately, consider liability when making rules. One major mishap with a shooter suffering a bolt to the face, could result in a "wrongful death"'lawsuit big enough to sink an entire shooting range, or seriously damage the sanctioning organization. Sad, but that is the litigious society we live in. |
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I have a vaquero, uberti 1873, and a stoeger sxs. Ironically the vaquero was my first handgun.
I thought about doing cass but I was already doing 3 gun and 45lc is expensive. I would still try it but I don't know anyone nearby who does it. Also, I own Jean's and boots, but that's about it. |
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I did it because it was cheap in the beginning, you don't go through a ton of ammo, and it's kinda fun if you grew up watching Clint Eastwood movies. It's not cheap anymore, the corniness got out of control, and they can't make their damn minds up on the rules. |
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Its basically a medium for fat chicks to wear a corset and show off their boobs. Quoted:
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All of the above, plus... It's basically LARPing. |
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It declined considerably after 2008, when fuel went up and reloading components became unobtainium. Common handgun powders like Bullseye, Unique, Train Boss, W231, etc., weren't seen on the shelves for YEARS. Pistol primers were unavailable. Factory ammo, such as .45 Colt, .44-40, .38-40, and even lead bullet .38 spl were wiped out for years, while manufacturers concentrated on 9mm, .40 S&W, .45acp, and .223. The sport is recovering, but it will never be what it was even 15 years ago. Folks today like black plastic and big magazines instead, so yes, I'm sure age has a lot to do with it. I grew up on Gunsmoke, Bonanza, and The Lone Ranger, so I suppose nostalgia has a big influence on it. Funny costumes? Denim jeans, a button up long sleeve western style shirt from Walmart and boots are just fine. If you'd rather have laces instead of slip-ons, Ariat lacers are very popular. Only a couple categories require specific costuming; B Western, which is SUPPOSED to be ridiculously over the edge, like The Three Amigos or Rustler's Rhapsody, and Classic Cowboy, which is more traditional like John Wayne perhaps. To each his own. I used to shoot Bullseye, and tried 3 Gun, but found CAS much more to my liking.
I'm disheartened to see how so many of you equate Cowboy Action with being "retarded", gay, or Liberal or some other dumbass analogy. You're a talkative one.
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Quoted: Thanks for that explanation. The rule makes a lot more sense now. And firearm competitions must, unfortunately, consider liability when making rules. One major mishap with a shooter suffering a bolt to the face, could result in a "wrongful death"'lawsuit big enough to sink an entire shooting range, or seriously damage the sanctioning organization. Sad, but that is the litigious society we live in. |
| Used to shoot a fair amount of local USPSA. Had some CASS guys trying to talk me into it. I thought it was pretty cool, until they started discussing costs. The Three guns required costs were steep for the recommended set ups. Some of these people spend a small fortune on the clothes and holsters, etc. |
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1. Welcome to the site. 2. Point out what is 'disrespectful' about any post on the front page. while some comments may be quite blunt, a criticism / opinion is not inherently disrespectful. don't take things personally. 3. This thread was / is an invitation to answer a specific question. Quoted:
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Hi Folks, I only read the first page. Wow! The disrespect for another shooting sport saddened me. On FB, I have read posts that also showed disdain for Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS). It makes me very sad that, in the current political climate of hatred for gun owners, we aren't unified in our love of shooting sports and respect for the Second Amendment. CAS is the first shooting sport I've participated in. One of several reasons was that I love the costumes. I've made many of my own costumes and even shot in a bustle. Two of my dearest friends were even the NRA's Women of the Year. Both shoot in fabulous costumes. I now participate in Wild Bunch Action Shooting. We still wear costumes. However, instead of shooting Single Action Army Revolvers, we shoot 1911 pistols. I could go on and on about my love for these guns and sports. However, the point I want to make would be lost. We need to support any and all shooting sports, whether we participate in them or not. Thank you to anyone who read this post. Sincerely, Allie Mo (my "dumb" alias) 2. Point out what is 'disrespectful' about any post on the front page. while some comments may be quite blunt, a criticism / opinion is not inherently disrespectful. don't take things personally. 3. This thread was / is an invitation to answer a specific question. No one said you can’t or shouldn’t do it. They just listed the reasons WHY no one else is doing it. But gee golly gosh, better go warsh ar britches fo’ The next shoot ‘em up. |
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I think a big part of the declining popularity is the sport is not attracting new/younger shooters, as had been said by other posters. But I think the reason it is not attracting new shooters is the lack of "action" even though "action" is in the very title of the sport. I used to be very big into USPSA & now I shoot IDPA (the USPSA arms race pushed me toward IDPA). I went to a CAS match just to watch & get a feel for the sport. I was expecting a USPSA type match, but with old "cowboy" type guns. Shooting on the move, reloading under the clock, etc. Running & gunning with cowboy guns. It sounded like great fun. But that is not what I saw at the match. I went & watched another match, just to make sure. It was the same. Standing in one spot, shoot targets in a specific order with just enough rounds to empty the gun, no reloading, movement, etc. on the clock. They forgot the action. With so many actual action shooting sports available. Why would someone looking to shoot action choose CAS? |
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Old people dying. It's killed a lot of hobbies. Even flying. All of the pilots in our club are fast approaching the age where they can't fly anymore and there's almost no enthusiasm among young people to learn to fly. I guess sitting on your ass, staring a cell phone is more fun than knowing how to fly a plane... you know, something useful. 
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Arguing about power factor in SASS is silly. The shooters at a typical match are diverse in age and gender, and there are many different categories based on age, gender, and shooting styles. While everyone is shooting the same match, you are really only competing against those in your category. People play the game the way they want to. You also have to realize that SASS isn't nearly as competerive as other shooting sports. It would be rare to find someone not willing to lend a gun to their competitor if theirs happens to break, or give advice on the best way to shoot the stage. The gamers are going to game (same as any sport), but most people are just having fun and competing against theirselves. Also, recoil doesn't play a huge roll in how fast someone can shoot a single action, since the act of manually cocking the guns is more disruptive to the sights than recoil. It isn't like trying to keep a semi auto as flat as possible for quick follow-up shots. Speed in CAS is about transition from one gun to the next and reloading the shotgun. Upping the power factor would have very little effect. Lastly, a lot of stages use knockdown targets (plate racks, Texas stars, poppers). Using the lightest loads allowable by the 60 power factor puts you at serious disadvantage with respect to knockdowns. While most shooters load light, they load well above the 60 minimum. I can only think of two shooters that I have come across in my 10 years of shooting SASS, that I suspect were anywhere close to the minimum power factor. There are a lot of reasons why CAS is dying off; the minimum power factor isn''t one of them... |
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Quoted: Sorry if this thread has dragged out too much derp; it was not my intention. Hopefully you and the other CAS shooters can find some useful information to increase participation in your sport. It is in all of our best interests anytime gun owners get together to shoot. |
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Yeah, because what's killing general aviation is Xbox and cell phones, and has nothing to do with the eye watering expense. Quoted:
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Old people dying. It's killed a lot of hobbies. Even flying. All of the pilots in our club are fast approaching the age where they can't fly anymore and there's almost no enthusiasm among young people to learn to fly. I guess sitting on your ass, staring a cell phone is more fun than knowing how to fly a plane... you know, something useful. |
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Quoted: SASS had a big time breakdown in the late 2000s on a similar topic; gun modifications. The end result was the firearms covenant that is in the handbook. There was much heated debate and discussion over all that with many ruffled feathers. What equipment/arms are allowed/disallowed is always a heated discussion. At the end of the day it has regulated customized gear and what is allowed/not allowed. In SASS there was a time when the new production henry rifles weren't legal. There's also some SAA versions that weren't allowed...was it the omnibus pistol or bisley hammers on regular SAAs? The contemporary Henry rifle of not of any design from that period. Not at all. There was a vote to allow it in the game. It only won on the vote because people wanted to have an American made rifle available. Outside of the Marlin and Win 94, all repro Win 66, 73 and 92's are / were made in Italy, So America or Japan. |
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Well, I know history. Asians in the Wild West were brought over as laborers for the trans-continental railroad. No cowboys or gun shooting. Kind of like having Mexicans in the Civil War, didn't happen. |
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If I was to do it again it will be with real black powder rounds. Lots of fire and smoke. 357 mag
loaded with 158gr bullets. Shotgun load would be either a 60gr or 80gr load depending on room in shell. No fancy clothes . Use a pair of dickies light brown carpenter pants with suspenders and any western looking shirt . Work boots with a cheap straw hat and I was good to go. My leather were just plain cheap holsters with a wide leather belt. The club did move towards using knock down targets to enforce the power factor rule. If you hit the target with out knocking it down was a miss. You have to reload for this sport. I do like the 45colt round but it got too expensive losing 10% of your brass. I was caught up in the great reloading shortage and could not meet the amount of rounds needed every month plus practice. When I end up moving to one house which will be closer to the range I may start again. |
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Quoted: I checked all the boxes in the Opie because I believe it is all of those things. The clothes requirement however is the big one for me and probably many others. If I can't just throw on a pair of blue jeans and shirt and go, then I ain't going. |
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So much misinformation, so little time.
If you want to know what SASS is really about, check out a match. Don't rely on misinformation to form your opinions about another shooting sport. Link to SASS affiliated clubs. |
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So much misinformation, so little time. If you want to know what SASS is really about, check out a match. Don't rely on misinformation to form your opinions about another shooting sport. Link to SASS affiliated clubs. |
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The majority of SASS categories are costume, age, or. Caliber based. Power factor doesn't come into play. Quoted:
Quoted: IDPA, 3-gun, steel challenge, all have different classes. Does SASS not? If not, perhaps the org should consider doing so. One could be "factory ammo only." That solves at least one category of perceived problems brought up in this thread. Costumes as noted, you don't need a fancy costume. Expense? Guns are expensive. I suspect that a lot of shooters in other SPORTS have spent more on fewer guns. Probably we went through a period when ammo was ridiculous expensive. Power factor - knock-downs can take care of that. You want to be a gamer and shoot mouse farts, well more power to you. (I guess) You want smoke and flames, shoot black powder. You drive the diversity, you've got more freedom than most sports. If a club is too strict, well they need to fic it. When I retire, I'll get back to shooting more often, everything. I notice that cost is often mentioned, it ain't cheap. other than that it's personal choice issues. Going in, like any shooting sports, you are going to run in to people that have been doing it seriously for 20+ years, and some that have been having fun for 20 years. |
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Hi Folks, I only read the first page. Wow! The disrespect for another shooting sport saddened me. On FB, I have read posts that also showed disdain for Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS). It makes me very sad that, in the current political climate of hatred for gun owners, we aren't unified in our love of shooting sports and respect for the Second Amendment. CAS is the first shooting sport I've participated in. One of several reasons was that I love the costumes. I've made many of my own costumes and even shot in a bustle. Two of my dearest friends were even the NRA's Women of the Year. Both shoot in fabulous costumes. I now participate in Wild Bunch Action Shooting. We still wear costumes. However, instead of shooting Single Action Army Revolvers, we shoot 1911 pistols. I could go on and on about my love for these guns and sports. However, the point I want to make would be lost. We need to support any and all shooting sports, whether we participate in them or not. Thank you to anyone who read this post. Sincerely, Allie Mo (my "dumb" alias) |
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It was a fad, and it's time is passing. I absolutely love Colt Single Action Army revolvers and Henry/Volcanic lever actions. I have Colt SAA's from all three generations, and have one of the Henry Originals (since I can't afford $30K for the real thing). I like many of the western movies/shows - in moderation. But I could not bring myself to dress up in "cowboy" duds. I have a friend who has a sizeable collection of SAA pistols, including some rare pieces worth in the six digits. He refers to "cowboys" as men whose mama dresses them funny. |
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Hi folks, I am hear because I love the AR15 platform and own more than I ever thought I would. I got my first one with the sunset of the evil AWB in '04.
Since that I have moved into the NFA world and I compete in several different disciplines, subgun matches, steel matches, 3-Gun, 2-Gun, multi-gun, just to name a few. I evolved into them after starting in cowboy action shooting and joining SASS nearly 30 years ago. Even back them it was an "old fat man's" sport, aimed at the baby boomers who grew up watching Westerns, and my wifey-unit and I were considered the kids. All of our cowboy friends were as old or older than our parents. Cowboy Action Shooting is NOT for everyone. Part of the lure is a love of the old west. Part of the lure is to be able to play a bit tongue in cheek an be able to laugh at yourself - this is how I always characterized the game to all who asked. Again, if you cannot laugh at yourself while riding a broomstick horse and going "yee-haa", then it is not for you. This game or sport was originally part Hollywood and part history, with some old west fantasy and legend thrown in for good measure. Yes, it is a bit like cos-play - again that is part of the draw, at least it was when I started. The idea is to chose an "alias" and assume a sort of a character, then costume appropriately. Costuming is required, but you decide how much you want to do. I always told folks to start off wearing blue jeans and a button down shirt. Short sleeves, sneakers and baseball caps are outlawed. Again. you do as much or as little as you want within the rules. My wife got interested because of the costuming aspect of it - and this was before Comicon. She was a theatre nerd and liked it - it also exposed her to guns and quickly turned her from young democrat to very conservative. It was great shooting with my wife every weekend for almost 20 years. Why is it dying? A multi-faceted answer... For one, I think the core customer base is dying off. And there may be problems bringing in younger shooters with start-up costs being what they are. Back when I started, only one pistol was needed - it was actually my now wifey who found it - my first gun to purchase. For me, after almost 20 years, the fun started to go away. For us the fun was the silliness that went along with the stages....from riding a broomstick horse, to recreating the campfire scene from Blazing Saddles - at our annual multi-club match, everyone got their own whoopee cushion. As CAS / SASS grew in popularity - it was at one point THE fastest growing shooting sport - I reckon there was a need to streamline activities and be able to move more people through stages and the matches. In doing so local clubs started removing all the silliness and cowboy stuff - the stuff we found fun and entertaining. The shooting of the stages became boring... a lot of 10-10-4, 10 pistol, 10 rifle and 4 shotgun. I was starting to see a pattern and it just stopped being fun. Plus it tended to take an entire day - as I have gotten older, time has become more valuable to me. Hell I can shoot a multi-gun match and be done by noon. So for me, it has been several things, diminishing returns for fun, silliness and growing time involvement. TLDR - CAS is not for everyone, but if you love the old west and can laugh at yourself, it can be a helluva lot of fun, with guns. @alliemo |
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The biggest reason I dropped CAS/SASS was it was all "gamers" and not fun anymore.
People didn't talk or bring potluck that were showing up... just mooching and trying to prove how fast they were. (which, I guess, is part of it... but, attitude made it difficult to relate) Then, NCOWS started drafting all the fun members away... and SASS got really PeeCee. After kid #3, I dropped all CAS and most of those guns sit in the vault. |
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I really don't get the resistance to this. Let the powder puff guys and the full power guys be in their respective divisions. Have divisions for "off the shelf" gear and customized gear. Everyone competes in their division. Everyone is happy. Though I don’t get why they’re so strict about period-correct guns and clothing, but not ammo. |
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Hi folks, I am hear because I love the AR15 platform and own more than I ever thought I would. I got my first one with the sunset of the evil AWB in '04. Since that I have moved into the NFA world and I compete in several different disciplines, subgun matches, steel matches, 3-Gun, 2-Gun, multi-gun, just to name a few. I evolved into them after starting in cowboy action shooting and joining SASS nearly 30 years ago. Even back them it was an "old fat man's" sport, aimed at the baby boomers who grew up watching Westerns, and my wifey-unit and I were considered the kids. All of our cowboy friends were as old or older than our parents. Cowboy Action Shooting is NOT for everyone. Part of the lure is a love of the old west. Part of the lure is to be able to play a bit tongue in cheek an be able to laugh at yourself - this is how I always characterized the game to all who asked. Again, if you cannot laugh at yourself while riding a broomstick horse and going "yee-haa", then it is not for you. This game or sport was originally part Hollywood and part history, with some old west fantasy and legend thrown in for good measure. Yes, it is a bit like cos-play - again that is part of the draw, at least it was when I started. The idea is to chose an "alias" and assume a sort of a character, then costume appropriately. Costuming is required, but you decide how much you want to do. I always told folks to start off wearing blue jeans and a button down shirt. Short sleeves, sneakers and baseball caps are outlawed. Again. you do as much or as little as you want within the rules. My wife got interested because of the costuming aspect of it - and this was before Comicon. She was a theatre nerd and liked it - it also exposed her to guns and quickly turned her from young democrat to very conservative. It was great shooting with my wife every weekend for almost 20 years. Why is it dying? A multi-faceted answer... For one, I think the core customer base is dying off. And there may be problems bringing in younger shooters with start-up costs being what they are. Back when I started, only one pistol was needed - it was actually my now wifey who found it - my first gun to purchase. For me, after almost 20 years, the fun started to go away. For us the fun was the silliness that went along with the stages....from riding a broomstick horse, to recreating the campfire scene from Blazing Saddles - at our annual multi-club match, everyone got their own whoopee cushion. As CAS / SASS grew in popularity - it was at one point THE fastest growing shooting sport - I reckon there was a need to streamline activities and be able to move more people through stages and the matches. In doing so local clubs started removing all the silliness and cowboy stuff - the stuff we found fun and entertaining. The shooting of the stages became boring... a lot of 10-10-4, 10 pistol, 10 rifle and 4 shotgun. I was starting to see a pattern and it just stopped being fun. Plus it tended to take an entire day - as I have gotten older, time has become more valuable to me. Hell I can shoot a multi-gun match and be done by noon. So for me, it has been several things, diminishing returns for fun, silliness and growing time involvement. TLDR - CAS is not for everyone, but if you love the old west and can laugh at yourself, it can be a helluva lot of fun, with guns. @alliemo Thinking about it, there really isn't any such thing as the "Spaghetti Western" any more. Or "John Wayne" style western movies that are 'just for fun.' Consider the (successful) western movies / shows that have come out in the past two or three decades. Tombstone. Wyatt Earp. Open Range. 3:10 to Yuma. Deadwood. Westworld. The Magnificent Seven (this comes closest to 'fun western' I think). Some of the above have some 'fun' elements, but still fall far short of the 'corny fun' of many western movies the baby boomer generation grew up with. Younger generations didn't / don't look for 'corny' in their Westerns. I see it in myself, though I am not millennial. For me - have fun shooting 'old school' western style single action revolvers and learn to shoot fast like you see in the movies? Awesome. (final scene in 3:10 to Yuma comes to mind*). All that takes is a holster and a single action revolver. I'll continue wearing boots, jeans, t-shirt, and ball-cap. Play dress up and replicate some of the corniness you see in spaghetti westerns, no thanks. *I realize cinematography trickery is employed. - To sum, the 'old west' you think of is 'corny fun' John Wayne style tongue in cheek., The 'old west' later generations think of is... not that. And from your post it appears CAS is really designed around the former. Possibly that is part of it. Possibly not. Thanks for your post. ETA: For reference I am 37. |
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Design a one-mile long course where you need to move, shoot, and reload a blackpowder muzzleloader multiple times and I'll travel/make a weekend out of that event. Not interested in standing still and obsessing over split times with revolvers and lever actions, at all. |
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Why do I shoot CAS?
Broken into multiple posts because apparently there is a 2000 character limit per post. Let me say I've been to this forum many times, usually when searching for something AR15 related, it came up in Google results, and usually gave me exactly the information I was searching for. Many thanks to the people here for providing some helpful content. Also, for anyone here that went to a SASS shoot, and felt they were not welcomed, or belittled, or felt that the cowboy shooters were arrogant, or trying to take over the clubs, I'm sorry that happened. All shooting sports need to stick together and lift each other up as much as possible. Especially since gun control laws enacted by some states affect the AR shooters and events more than the cowboy shooters. To answer why the sport of CAS is declining, I suspect it's because older people are leaving faster than incoming younger people are joining. It's not necessarily just dying off, but declines in health, eyesight, mobility, strength, tolerance for certain weather, etc. cause people to eventually retire from the sport. There are certainly fewer people joining, especially if they grew up on Die Hard and Lethal Weapon (two of my favorite Christmas movies btw) instead of westerns. Certainly, if I go to my local gun store, there is a huge assortment of modern, semi auto handguns and rifles, but usually fewer to no single actions. |
| I'm 51, my kids are adults now, one in college and one active duty. I now have the time, and money, for more hobbies. I shoot on a bullseye league and have been doing cowboy action shooting. Why CAS you may ask? Because it makes me happy, and I totally get other people are happy doing other things. That's one of the things I love about the USA, multiple options available to us, and the freedom to invent new options if there is sufficient demand. I've been a martial artist since 1985, and say the same thing in their forums; whether you want full contact MMA, tournament tag, realistic self-defense, or just a good workout, you have an option available for you. Same with shooting, if you want to shoot flying things, movings, plates, modern, old style, muzzleloader, etc there is something available. Gotta love living in the U.S.A., except CA, their gun laws are onerous. |
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Me personally, I'm an actual and stereotypical engineer. I like taking things apart, seeing how they work, trying to improve them. I've built my own 1911's & AR's, including 80%'rs. My project gun last winter was trying to make a highly accurate ar15, just for the challenge of it. I've had a project sports car, even did some light amateur racing. I've pretty much always driven a stick shift, because driving on a twisty road, slipping through the gears, keeping it at the power level I want, brings me joy. You become one with the machine. I totally admit there are now many sports cars with automatics that react faster and better than most people can with a stick. I enjoy driving the automatic sporty cars, but they do not bring me as much joy as the stick shift. Same is true of the single action weapons. Manually operating the lever and hammer, working on timing, fine motor skills, and improving my own performance brings me joy, just like driving a stick shift on a twisty two-laner. I still enjoy shooting my modern firearms, but they honestly don't bring me as much joy. Again, that's just me, how I'm wired. |
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I don't mind the clothing, as others have said, one can go as fancy or as simple as they want, certainly, some people go all 5.11 out in other shooting sports. I don't mind the gamers or mouse fart loads, they are faster than I am and I don't care, I'm there to have fun, and make myself a better shooter. It can be expensive, especially if you do not reload, for me, reloading is part of my engineering zen time.
I'll try and respond to some of the comments, but preface it by saying the opinions are only through my lens, and no one else's. Point out what is 'disrespectful' about any post on the front page. while some comments may be quite blunt, a criticism / opinion is not inherently disrespectful. don't take things personally.
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