I have a large head and somewhat protruding brow.

Hmmm....

Quoted: So, did the Neanderthals die off or did we interbreed with them.  I swear I have seen folks with prominent brow ridges who have a little "N" in their DNA.

both theories have been proposed and both have decent evidence

Quoted: Quoted: So, did the Neanderthals die off or did we interbreed with them.  I swear I have seen folks with prominent brow ridges who have a little "N" in their DNA. both theories have been proposed and both have decent evidence

There is virtually no evidence for interbreeding that I have ever seen. What are you citing?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, did the Neanderthals die off or did we interbreed with them.  I swear I have seen folks with prominent brow ridges who have a little "N" in their DNA. both theories have been proposed and both have decent evidence There is virtually no evidence for interbreeding that I have ever seen. What are you citing?

I can't remember specific sources but I've seen/read it in more than one place

I have seen no DNA evidence supporting Neandertal survival through interbreeding.  And I have seen a lot against it.  Unless a new DNA test on new bones from somewhere turns up something else, this is pretty conclusive.

Penn State did the first tests in 97', www.psu.edu/ur/NEWS/news/Neandertal.html

subsequent tests have so far only confirmed their findings: www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/mtDNA.html

That has not kept some anthropologists from continuing to insist otherwise, but it is farely convincing to the rest of the scientifice community.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, did the Neanderthals die off or did we interbreed with them.  I swear I have seen folks with prominent brow ridges who have a little "N" in their DNA. both theories have been proposed and both have decent evidence There is virtually no evidence for interbreeding that I have ever seen. What are you citing? I can't remember specific sources but I've seen/read it in more than one place

It has been suggested numerous times. And a lot of people have tried to prove it for various reasons.

So far we have no reliable evidence to support that idea and virtually everything we have says otherwise.

I personally am not oppossed to the idea and if the evidence DID surface I would be fine with it. But that is not currently the case and everything we have and understand points to complete displacement of one species by the other.

There was a good book with the title "neanderthal" from the mid '90s, about a race of them living in uncharted high altitude mountains somewhere in southern russia. There was a more civilized good tribe of them and a more primative and more dominating bad tribe of them in a cave system, enter the expedition scientists investigating a russian and u.s. military consiparacy. Good read.
The book also suggested neanderthals were physically built for combat and were enormously strong. But for some reason I always thought they were actually supposed to have been shorter than modern people. Much stockier, but shorter.

Quoted: I have seen no DNA evidence supporting Neandertal survival through interbreeding.  And I have seen a lot against it.  Unless a new DNA test on new bones from somewhere turns up something else, this is pretty conclusive. Penn State did the first tests in 97', www.psu.edu/ur/NEWS/news/Neandertal.html subsequent tests have so far only confirmed their findings: www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/mtDNA.html That has not kept some anthropologists from continuing to insist otherwise, but it is farely convincing to the rest of the scientifice community.

 Keep in mind that for YEARS the argument raged over whether or not dinosaurs were directly related to birds.  In the eighties I remember one scientist and an artist did a great article in National Geographic did an very lengthy article on the dinosaur/modern bird relationship and they went so far as to show larger dinosaurs with feathers.  The scientific community lambasted them.  I am quite suprised these poor guys weren't drug out into the street and shot.

 Twenty some years later it turns out that there WERE larger scaled dinosaurs with feathers as recently demonstrated in current fossil finds in China.

 I would say that when it comes to Neanderthal Man and Modern man, the jury should still be considered "out" on this subject.  Relating to DNA evidence there is simply too large of a gap in the information to make a proper determination.  Being that there are just a few differences along the order of a few percent when comparing the DNA of a Chimpanzee to a Human, the order of difference between Human and Neanderthal must be fairly narrow, indeed.

since Cromagnon man & Neanderthal man lived during the same time frame for thousands of years, do you think they were mortal enemies? or did the various tribes of people inter mix and get along? similiar to how Native American Indian tribes got along with other tribes?

maybe modern man wiped out the Neanderthals during combat and the few remaining died off from disease and starvation until their extinction?

Quoted: since Cromagnon man & Neanderthal man lived during the same time frame for thousands of years, do you think they were mortal enemies? or did the various tribes of people inter mix and get along? similiar to how Native American Indian tribes got along with other tribes? maybe modern man wiped out the Neanderthals during combat and the few remaining died off from disease and starvation until their extinction?

It's just as likely that modern man hunted Neanderthals for food.

Believe it or not, I have a big ol' Neanderthal Ridge on my forehead right above my eyebrows.  Apparently, in the right lighting it casts some kind of shadow on my upper forehead and people tell me I have some kind of smudge up there.

Quoted: There has been some speculation that There was some interbreeding between "modern" man and neanderthals.  Some possible evidence of this was dug up in Spain I believe, and consisted of what appeared to have been Hybrids between the two.

Yeah....that would be me.

I figure that Neanderthal is a modern name for Nephilim.

Quoted: M. Creighton's "eaters ot the dead" is a (supposedly true) tale based on the last interactions of modern man and Neandertals. Great read.

It was a retelling of the Beowulf legend.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Neanderthals were short, stubby guys.  It would be like fighting a guy with Down syndrome.  Lotta strength, but nothing between the ears.  I'd say Neanderthal takes the early advantage in a fight, but loses gas shortly after that and gets choked out by modern man (who has access to performance-enhancing drugs).     Interesting thing is the cranial cavity for Neanderthals is actually bigger than that of modern humans. Actually they werent. The very first skeleton found in the Neander Valley in the 1880's had ricketts and osteo-arthritus and may have been in his 60's!  He had bent legs, a bent back, and a broken arm that had healed crooked. The average of the Neanderthal male skeletons found so far is right around 6 feet. Meaning that on average they were about 4 inches taller than a modern Human One thing about them, at least from the skeletons recovered so far is that the Neanderthal size range was a lot narrower than Homo Sapiens.  A modern Human can be anywhere from 5 foot tall to six and a half feet tall and still be "normal"  Recovered Neanderthal males all cluster within 4 inches either side of six feet. Judging by their long bones, Neaderthals were MASSIVELY strong.  They may have been close to being as powerful pound for pound as chimpanzees or gorillas are.  If any of you remember back a few months to the articles about the guy in California who was mauled by the two "tame" chimpanzees at a animal sanctuary- think about that kind of power on a six foot frame.

That's one of the theories of why Neanderthal died out. Massive muscles require massive calorie consumption to maintain.

I had no idea that Neandertal was so tall.

I saw a PBS series about early man, they had scientists saying that Neanderthal may have indeed bred with other humans. They also indicated that Neanderthal was more capable than previously thought, using tools etc.

What was interesting was the scientist present that case, and saying Neanderthal features can still be seen in modern humans, was a stocky, thick necked, guy that had some of the features, though less prominent that a true Neanderthal................

One of the other points, modern man is balanced better to run, walk upright. More of the skull is behind the neck, making it easier to balance the head while running. They think this gave moderns a real advantage in migrating, running after prey, or from predators. Neanderthal and his cousins were far less balanced, and they would have a difficult time balancing when running, or walking for long periods.

Quoted: One of the other points, modern man is balanced better to run, walk upright. More of the skull is behind the neck, making it easier to balance the head while running. They think this gave moderns a real advantage in migrating, running after prey, or from predators. Neanderthal and his cousins were far less balanced, and they would have a difficult time balancing when running, or walking for long periods.

  Sounds like it would be fun playing Brockian Ultra Cricket with these guys!  I wish some were still around....I'd nominate Clean Cut to go poke one with a stick and then run away.......I wonder how far he'd get?

Quoted: since Cromagnon man & Neanderthal man lived during the same time frame for thousands of years, do you think they were mortal enemies? or did the various tribes of people inter mix and get along? similiar to how Native American Indian tribes got along with other tribes? maybe modern man wiped out the Neanderthals during combat and the few remaining died off from disease and starvation until their extinction? www.vegiazena.it/storia/imm/sap-near.jpg

They lived in the same time but not the same place.

As soon as modern man arrived in Europe he completely displaced the Neandertal in an instant (or an instant in evolutionary / geological time).