i will never buy black and decker stuff again - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - i will never buy black and decker stuff again (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 10/6/2004 1:31:15 PM EDT

[#1]

this all died way too early.

Posted: 10/6/2004 1:41:34 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Not everyone needs professional grade tools. That said there are other alternatives to a $300 drill. For intermediate use theres Rigid, craftsman (who makes those?) and a few others.

Some of the Craftsman stuff is OEM Black and Decker. All of it is made outside the US, and sucks as much as B&D's stuff.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Posted: 10/6/2004 4:25:38 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Black and Decker should be avoided just because they make cheap junk. Get Dewalt or resign yourself to alot of replacing.

Hate to break it to you, but they are one in the same.

The drive in my Dewalt cordless drill is made out of steel gears. The drive in most B&D are injection molded nylon. Also heavier duty battery packs.

This is true, but is all made by Black and Decker. DeWalt is a division of B&D.

To boycott B&D and then buy Dewalt is totally pointless.

Posted: 10/6/2004 4:33:15 PM EDT

[#4]

They might have also moved for EPA reasons.

When we moved our business to a new town, they welcomed us until they found out we were light manufacturing and then the took back their welcome.

Posted: 10/6/2004 4:47:09 PM EDT

[#5]

There is a market for cheap tools, middle grade tools, and real quality.

On the cheapest end you have imported chinese no-name junk.

In the middle you have B&D, Dewalt, and some others. As production costs in the US rise, due to increased labor costs (thank unions and extremely high healthcare costs), more stringient enviornmental regulations, and higher tax rates. In order to keep thier price in the range where the casual user who will buy that line will buy it going overseas is really the only option.

Then you have the real quality tools. These will probably always be made in the USA, simply because the buyers expect and are willing to pay for the higher quality of work and qaulity control that American workers are capable of producing. Just like I am willing to pay $25 for a single quality wrench when you can buy 50 chinese ones for that $$$.

In the cheap market, American workers can't compete. In the middle market, they could if the high cost of labor wasn't coupled with increased overall costs and regulation. So slowly that market is lost. In the top $$$ market the 3rd world can't compete with the quality we can produce. So those items will always be made here.

Posted: 10/6/2004 4:48:23 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Crappy products don't get bought. Sales speak volume.

I think would work if you didn't have a only a few competitors in the market. Just think how many retailers are selling tools, if you don't want to buy this crappy tool, where else are you going to find a replacement? The retailers can sell junk because you have zero choice except to buy this stuff or do without.

Posted: 10/6/2004 4:53:25 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Black and Decker should be avoided just because they make cheap junk. Get Dewalt or resign yourself to alot of replacing.

Hate to break it to you, but they are one in the same.

The drive in my Dewalt cordless drill is made out of steel gears. The drive in most B&D are injection molded nylon. Also heavier duty battery packs.

This is true, but is all made by Black and Decker. DeWalt is a division of B&D.

To boycott B&D and then buy Dewalt is totally pointless.

I didn't recommend "boycotting" B&D as a company. I recommended buying Dewalt premium brand over B&D bargain brand due to specific instances of superior materials used in construction. Kind of like recommending Mercedes over Chrysler, both DCX brands, one premium the other bargain.

Have a nice day!

Posted: 10/6/2004 4:54:21 PM EDT

[#8]

Well, forgive my naivety in the economics department, but isn't there any connection between all thi outsourcing to Mexico, and the fact that we can't (won't) keep our border secure. Is this because too many fatcats might loose their piece of cake if we pissed Mexico off? I know our immigration policy has alot to do with the Dems getting all those minority votes, but I think big money for a few wealthy business owners that are friends with a few politicians could also be a factor. Surely it drives alot of our trade policies, too?

I think we should have found a happy medium maybe by reforming our labor laws so the Unions wouldn't be able to milk the company's dry, and keep those jobs here. I just never had much faith in trickle down economics (opreign aid) , either.

That's my conspiracy theory for the day.......

Posted: 10/6/2004 4:56:14 PM EDT

[#9]

I'm a DeWalt junkie, and I don't intend to change anytime soon....

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:01:29 PM EDT

[#10]

Moving companies outside the US for cheap labor is the way of the world. Only your vote can fix this. And then, maybe not. At some point, nothing will be manufactured in the US. In the next 5 years, probably sooner, not a single clothing item you wear will be made here.

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:07:25 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Black and Decker has been in Mexico for 20 years. they starting moving factories there in the early 80s. being from MD i knew lots of people in BD management and they all made regular trips to mexico. over-regulation and union labor is driving them away. unless you want to spend $600 for a 14.4v drill

Good post. I've always wanted to do a study on what the standard of living in this country would be if the "Buy American" crowd got it's way. I'm in Sales/Cost Estimating in the auto industries and I can tell you that, without cheap foreign parts, we'd be spending $40,000 on the Goddamn Escort from 10 years ago.

Black and Decker should be avoided just because they make cheap junk. Get Dewalt or resign yourself to alot of replacing.

Buy Milwaukee. It's the only way to be sure.

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:18:28 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I hate to break it to you people but outsourcing is not always as a disadvantage to the American people that it is perceived. I'll probably get flamed for this, and I realize that those who loose the jobs would disagree to their deaths.

But, in this ever-changing capitalist economy, companies strive for the free-market, cheapest costs (including labor) that they can. Anything that can help make a company more efficient brings them much more profit, which they pump back into America (if it's an American company). In most cases, what these companys' gains bring to the American economy tops what benefit saving the jobs would have made.

We wouldn't have any problems if the pricks running this federal gov taxing the crap out of companies, they would still be here. If its made in China, Mexico, etc I don't buy it. I live in a very simple house with very little decor. I spend my hard earned money on made in USA firearms...and some German stuff to....well maybe some Italian but thats it.

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:27:06 PM EDT

[#13]

No tool company builds exclusively in the US any longer...and B&D just bought one of the last...Porter Cable. The Milwaukee...some made in Germany, some in CZ, some elsewhere, but none in Mexico or Chinsa...is very good as is Bosch...again, not all made in Germany. B&D is pretty much junk...regardless of price, and DeWalt is very up and down...decent cordless drills but the batteries don't last, and not much else.

Makita, Hitachi, Bosch and Milwaukee are usually extremely good tools...maybe not exactly with the features you need but very high quality. B&D is, and has been for years, junk! Expect to see PC follow the junk trail as well, very soon.

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:29:35 PM EDT

[#14]

Efficiency.

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:32:05 PM EDT

[#15]

I live in Michigan where unions are just killing us. They just can't get it through their heads that unskilled and uneducated people just can't demand top dollar for basic assembly work. The new generation of skilled production workers must be educated, skilled, and technically savy. With the exception of the skilled trade unions, our big labor types do nothing to advance education, and make their people more competitive. The big union leadership wants their people to be ignorent union sheep, who will vote for Democrats, and the status quo. These people are stuck in the 1950s. At this rate, even us educated types will be screwed. Unless you are self employed, someone with a high school education just can't expect to make 40K plus. Those days are over.

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:33:40 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Black and Decker has been in Mexico for 20 years. they starting moving factories there in the early 80s. being from MD i knew lots of people in BD management and they all made regular trips to mexico. over-regulation and union labor is driving them away. unless you want to spend $600 for a 14.4v drill

Good post. I've always wanted to do a study on what the standard of living in this country would be if the "Buy American" crowd got it's way. I'm in Sales/Cost Estimating in the auto industries and I can tell you that, without cheap foreign parts, we'd be spending $40,000 on the Goddamn Escort from 10 years ago.

Black and Decker should be avoided just because they make cheap junk. Get Dewalt or resign yourself to alot of replacing.

Buy Milwaukee. It's the only way to be sure.

+10000

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:37:29 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I'm a DeWalt junkie, and I don't intend to change anytime soon....

+1 Large collection in need of getting MUCH larger.

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:46:11 PM EDT

[#18]

I've never seen power tools made ANYWHERE that are better than Hilti. (Most are made in Switzerland)

Posted: 10/6/2004 5:59:40 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm a DeWalt junkie, and I don't intend to change anytime soon....

+1 Large collection in need of getting MUCH larger.

I love having a company Home Depot card

Posted: 10/6/2004 6:48:15 PM EDT

[#20]

Last year, I burned out an old B&D hand drill. I'm not heavy into anything that requires a top dollar hand drill so I went down to the local KMart and bought another B&D drill.

Got the new one home and it didn't work. Looked at the box "Made in Mexico" didn't really have much significance yet. Took it back to exchange it.

New one was "Made in Mexico" and didn't work either, nor the third one.

Took the third one to the B&D service outlet and they sent it back to B&D. After about a month I got a card in the mail "Come get your drill".

Apparently they don't bother fixing stuff and just replace it. New box says "Made in China" and I think"damn, what next?"

New drill works perfectly. I would NEVER have imagined I'd be satisfied w/"Made in China"

Draw any conclusion you want.

Don in Ohio

Posted: 10/6/2004 6:57:12 PM EDT

[#21]

What good is it to boycott Black and Decker because the are shipping jobs across the boarder and then say to buy DeWalt when they are the same company.

All you are doing is putting your money in the same pocket.

Quoted:

Black and Decker should be avoided just because they make cheap junk. Get Dewalt or resign yourself to alot of replacing.

Posted: 10/6/2004 7:05:37 PM EDT

[#22]

THE ATLAS COPCO PURCHASE

In July, 1995, Atlas Copco AB purchased Amstar, the parent corporation that owned Milwaukee Electric Tool Corporation. www.atlascopco.com/

Atlas Copco is a global group of industrial companies headquartered in Stockholm, Sweden that employs close to 26,000 people and manufactures products in 13 countries on five continents.

Atlas Copco AB is also the parent of U.S. based companies Chicago Pneumatic, Prime Service, and Rental Service Corp (RSC).

Worldwide, Atlas Copco companies manufacture electric and pneumatic tools, compressors, construction and mining equipment, assembly systems and motion control products.

Strategically, to Milwaukee, the sale to Atlas Copco meant increased financial support, with opportunities to compete in the international power tool market.

In addition, as the fourth electric tool manufacturer Atlas Copco had acquired since entering that market in 1992, Milwaukee had the opportunity to synergize ideas and products with sister divisions producing and selling AEG, Kango and Atlas Copco electric tools.

At the same time it also gave Atlas Copco a highly desirable position in the electric power tool business in North America.

Quoted:
Buy Milwaukee. It's the only way to be sure.

Posted: 10/6/2004 7:25:48 PM EDT

[#23]

i have to laugh at all the people going to work in texas for kwikset(b&d company)
dont they realize in a few more yrs that will be gone to. without a manufacturing base no country can stay on top forever cause your not selling anything and its going to happen.

Posted: 10/6/2004 8:43:09 PM EDT

[#24]

To those of you who didn't know... Milwaukee has been sold again.

Got this in my E-Mail a few weeks ago.

To all Milwaukee Heavy Duty Club Members:

We have great news to share!

Milwaukee Electric Tool is being acquired by Techtronic Industries Co. Ltd. (TTI), the world's fastest growing power tool manufacturer.

Although you may not have heard about TTI, you're probably familiar with some of the brand name products owned by TTI, like Ryobi power tools, Homelite outdoor power equipment and Royal and Dirt Devil vacuum cleaners and floor care appliances.

Joining forces with TTI will allow us to share TTI's research and development facilities. That means we'll have even more engineering and manufacturing expertise to draw on in order to produce the innovative products that you've come to expect from Milwaukee.

We currently employ more than 2,000 people and have four manufacturing plants in Wisconsin, Mississippi and Arkansas, making Milwaukee the only power tool manufacturer with the majority of its tool production in the U.S. Our team will now join forces with TTI North America, which employs 1,800 people in Ohio and South Carolina.

Our products will continue to carry the familiar Milwaukee brand and you'll be able to buy the tools and accessories you need from your favorite retailer or distributor.

At Milwaukee, we're proud of our 80 years of dedicated service to professional power tool users. The product and service levels that you've come to expect from Milwaukee will be the same - if not better - in the years ahead. As we begin this next chapter, we thank you for your continued support and invite you to keep sending us ideas on how to make Milwaukee power tools and accessories even better.

We fully expect to become a stronger company as a result of this acquisition. This should translate into even more high-quality, innovative power tool and accessory systems from Milwaukee.

Thank you for owning and using Milwaukee Electric power tools.

Sincerely,

Dan Perry, President
Milwaukee Electric Tool

Posted: 10/6/2004 10:39:07 PM EDT

[#25]

TTI is a Home Depot "partner".

This means that Home Depot owns stock in TTI and TTI owns stock in Home Depot.
TTI's companies build specific "Home Depot Only" products.

Look for a big push at Home Depot on Milwaukee power tools around Christmas, and look for Lowes to slowly stop carrying a large selection of Milwaukee tools.

Posted: 10/6/2004 10:44:29 PM EDT

[#26]

Always been a Milwaukee and Porter-Cable person myself but I did buy a 18V DeWalt cordless combo last year

Posted: 10/6/2004 10:45:15 PM EDT

[#27]

Although you may not have heard about TTI, you're probably familiar with some of the brand name products owned by TTI, like Ryobi power tools, Homelite outdoor power equipment and Royal and Dirt Devil vacuum cleaners and floor care appliances.

Well hell. I love my milwaukee tools, but they are in line with *RYOBI* and *DIRT DEVILS* forget it.

TTI is a Home Depot "partner".

This means that Home Depot owns stock in TTI and TTI owns stock in Home Depot.
TTI's companies build specific "Home Depot Only" products.

Look for a big push at Home Depot on Milwaukee power tools around Christmas, and look for Lowes to slowly stop carrying a large selection of Milwaukee tools.

And considering Home Depot is the epitomy of bad service, I guess I will have to switch to Bosch over at Lowe's.

Posted: 10/6/2004 10:53:07 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Some of their stuff I had never was that good anyway.

+1

Two years of regular use is all you can expect out of them.

+2

Disposeable, like toasters.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - i will never buy black and decker stuff again (Page 2 of 2)

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